ZOS... Is CP really account based ? Then stop punishing Alts please !

Rune_Relic · June 2016

I am a slow leveller. I am a completionist. I like to do every achievement in every zone when levelling up a new character.
It lets me experiment and taste every skill and how they work together in many hours of combat as well as savour the story lines.
Granted that doesn't make me any good. But I try.
Basically I like to actually experience the content that was created and that I paid for, rather than bypassing it all using the quickest method possible.

The problem is the power gap between low CP and high CP is immense and power creep is now becoming a massive issue.
So maxing out CP is now fundamentally a requirement if you want to compete.
ie participate in the game on an equal footing.
When you see players with 30000+ health & 50000+ magicka, you know how thats going to end.

Their burst consists of 20 chained hits before they even thinking about resource management.
And if they havent killed you by then they'd probably never kill anyone...especially with power scaling off that much magicka and the DPS that results from it.
..........

But criticising game balance is not the point of this thread.
My point is the Champion system the way it currently works.

I am a Vet player. As long as I play my veteran character I amass more CP and progress to the cap.
However....if I play my alts....I get ZERO CP.
So veteran progress is account wide...but if you are a vet playing alts....it isnt account wide !?!??!

I can put 100s of hours into those alts and get 0CP for all that effort even though I am a VET.
Yet someone with 1 vet character can continue to play that for the same 100s of hours and be gaining CP every second uninterrupted.
Even though we are both vets putting in the same amount of time.

My only option (realistically) is to speed grind any alts to vet level ASAP and miss out on all the story line and content.
ZOS....Is that really your idea ? Ignore your 1-50 content to be able to play your 50+ content.
Should gaining a wide level of deep experience across multiple builds not be rewarded rather than punished ?
Should savouring the content you poured 100s of man hours into not be encouraged ?

SOLUTION.
Can you PLEASE make CP continue to progress with any character rather than only 50+...once you have reached Veteran level on at least one character on your account.
Frankly I am not personally bothered if you disable CP on level 1-50 characters either as 1-50 PvP is non CP anyway.
But the inability to progress CP on any 1-50 alt is a penalty with no reason to exist (except zero vet characters).
Not that I can fathom on an account wide system anyway.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

So you want to earn champion points on an alt under 50 as long as you have a champion level toon . You're not asking for instant access to champion level . If I understood right . I have no problem with that .

emily3989 · June 2016

CP should be disabled until 50. Just my opinion. I don't use it on any alts myself.

Rune_Relic · June 2016

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

So you want to earn champion points on an alt under 50 as long as you have a champion level toon . You're not asking for instant access to champion level . If I understood right . I have no problem with that .

Correct.

sadownik · June 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

So you want to earn champion points on an alt under 50 as long as you have a champion level toon . You're not asking for instant access to champion level . If I understood right . I have no problem with that .

Correct.

Did you do the math? I didnt but i think for 1-49 you will get 1 prehaps 2 cp?

Rohamad_Ali · June 2016

sadownik wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

So you want to earn champion points on an alt under 50 as long as you have a champion level toon . You're not asking for instant access to champion level . If I understood right . I have no problem with that .

Correct.

Did you do the math? I didnt but i think for 1-49 you will get 1 prehaps 2 cp?

Yep . It's not gonna be much .

Refuse2GrowUp · June 2016

It isn't quite a dreary as your portray, for the sole reason of 'enlightenment'.

While it is true that you do not accrue CPs while on a non-vet toon, as long as you already have a Vet lvl toon, (or have started to accrue CPs), then you will accrue enlightenment anytime you are either offline or on a non-vet toon. I do not remember how many days you can accrue, but it was something like two or three weeks if I am not mistaken. That means you can savor every slow moment on your non-vet and play however you desire, then just a couple hours per week you can log onto one of your CP toons to use up that enlightenment and it will be as if you never lost any playtime at all on it. Simply popping an XP pot and doing the random daily dungeon will use up a substantial backlog of XP and net easy CPs if at a low CP level.

So basically, as long as you still play your CP toons periodically (within the enlightenment accrual period), you will get all those CPs you should have/could have earned while playing your non-vet. Don't worry, the game has you covered.

AlnilamE · June 2016

You need 2.3 million XP to level from 1-50 (source: http://uesp.net/wiki/Online:Leveling) so you would get about 5 champion points out of that, give or take.

I'm assuming your characters are probably half way there already, so even less than that.

Personally, I still have 2 characters that are non-vet (not counting my Iron Vestige), and I play them in little bits and take them to guild events between playing my vet characters to earn CP (which I can do by questing as well).

NewBlacksmurf · June 2016

Considering CP is account based, the request isn't completely irrational but in all honesty, they (ZOS) need to completely remove CP for any gear, NPC requirements or indicators and just use level 50 for players and levels 49-56 for NPCs and those tiers respectively for material and gear progression. Requirements would still lock at 50 cause it doesn't matter as everyone will need to obtain the gear or buy it to use it at 50.

This CP requirement is just pointless but that's my point of view

Abeille · June 2016

What I do is to grind my enlightenment pool as quick as I can and then go level alts as slowly as I want. I had some issues this semester and lost a lot of enlightenment because it built up for much longer than 12 days, otherwise I'd have gotten to 501 two months ago (I'm at 466 right now I think).

So while I understand your suggestion, I don't find it really necessary. But it would be awesome if we could accumulate more enlightenment instead of just 12 days. Then, you could use that enlightenment to catch up after finishing leveling your alt.

Frawr · June 2016

+1 i agree that you should get CP on alts if you have a vet level char. no reason not to do so.

Also, remember that you can do all 3 alliances on 1 char and so you don't actually NEED to use alts for this purpose. you can have alts for mules/bank etc and still do the entire game while gaining CP

WldKarde · June 2016

I see your point OP as I love to create alts myself.

Yes it's a trade off between gaining cp's on your 50+ characters vs. no "progression" while leveling a now alt up to 50. Maybe a compromise would be to award 1 cp per 10 levels from 1-50. It wouldn't be much in the grand scheme of things, but at least it would be something.

Mostly I just write off the "lost" cp gains when leveling and alt and consider it a fair trade for being able to enjoy Tamriel through the eyes of a new character.

jcaceresw · June 2016

It will not be much CP (unless I have stacked several enlight boost up to 11 days) but I will not feel my alt leveling wasted due to CP being disabled before reaching lvl50. Even if I dont get much CP xp doing the whole main quest, at least is something.

Asmael · June 2016

AlnilamE wrote: »

You need 2.3 million XP to level from 1-50 (source: http://uesp.net/wiki/Online:Leveling) so you would get about 5 champion points out of that, give or take.

I'm assuming your characters are probably half way there already, so even less than that.

Personally, I still have 2 characters that are non-vet (not counting my Iron Vestige), and I play them in little bits and take them to guild events between playing my vet characters to earn CP (which I can do by questing as well).

It's been a while since each CP doesn't require 400,000 XP...

You've been missing a DLC or 2 I think

The first CP requires something super low, like 10k XP, not counting the x4 bonus. At my current amount (560-ish), it takes maybe 700-800k. Not that it matters, since I can't assign those, duh.

On first thought this is something I'd support, on second thought, well, enlightenment makes up for it, so... I'm really shared between supporting it or not. It's probably better for people to get CP while doing veteran content, because the day someone just plays alts until level 50, and then decides to go veteran with 300 CPs and literally 0 hour played in vet content, he's in for a big surprise.

AlnilamE · June 2016

Asmael wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

You need 2.3 million XP to level from 1-50 (source: http://uesp.net/wiki/Online:Leveling) so you would get about 5 champion points out of that, give or take.

I'm assuming your characters are probably half way there already, so even less than that.

Personally, I still have 2 characters that are non-vet (not counting my Iron Vestige), and I play them in little bits and take them to guild events between playing my vet characters to earn CP (which I can do by questing as well).

It's been a while since each CP doesn't require 400,000 XP...

You've been missing a DLC or 2 I think

The first CP requires something super low, like 10k XP, not counting the x4 bonus. At my current amount (560-ish), it takes maybe 700-800k. Not that it matters, since I can't assign those, duh.

On first thought this is something I'd support, on second thought, well, enlightenment makes up for it, so... I'm really shared between supporting it or not. It's probably better for people to get CP while doing veteran content, because the day someone just plays alts until level 50, and then decides to go veteran with 300 CPs and literally 0 hour played in vet content, he's in for a big surprise.

Jeez, you'd think two cups of coffee would be enough for MATH, but nooo....

You are absolutely right. I just hit 800k per CP so I completely understand what you are saying.

ADarklore · June 2016

Here is what I want... I want to gain XP from NPC kills when I'm above five levels during the 1-50 leveling process. Currently, post-50, you get a minimum of 30% XP from enemy kills in Cadwell's... why does this ONLY apply there and not our main alliance quest zones? Currently if you're more than five levels above enemies in your alliance zones you get ZERO XP, this really should be changed like the CP system, where you gain less XP but never zero XP.

Elsonso · June 2016

emily3989 wrote: »

CP should be disabled until 50. Just my opinion. I don't use it on any alts myself.

This is my thought, too. CPs should have been for Level 50 characters ONLY.

Runs · June 2016

Play your main when you have enlightenment. Play your under 50 alts when you do not.

CP is already given out like candy to crying children. There is no need to earn it faster or at lower levels than 50.

sadownik wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

So you want to earn champion points on an alt under 50 as long as you have a champion level toon . You're not asking for instant access to champion level . If I understood right . I have no problem with that .

Correct.

Did you do the math? I didnt but i think for 1-49 you will get 1 prehaps 2 cp?

I'm guessing OP is pretty low in the CP still so probably is still seeing the fast gains of the catch up system. Where you would earn a good sum still during the 1-50 leveling process.

2,296,964 is the total exp to level 50 taken from UESP
CP calculations below using this formula >>> ((TotalPoints / (Cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000

If a player where to get to 50 and stop, they would be at 10 cp.

Now they could create an alt and the 1-50 exp would end up taking them from 10 cp to 49 cp. This is calculated without enlightenment.

A third character could then be created and it's 1-50 exp would take it from 49 cp to 75 cp, again without enlightenment.

The fourth character's 1-50 run would take it from 75 cp to 97 cp, again without enlightenment.

Fifth's would take it from 97 cp to 116 cp, again without enlightenment.

Sixth's would go from 116 cp to 133 cp, again without enlightenment.

Seventh's would go from 133 cp to 148 cp, again without enlightenment.

And the eighth characters cp would go from 148 cp to 162 cp, again without enlightenment.

Now as repeated multiple times that's without enlightenment. Lets look at if someone where to only play in enlightenment assuming it would be allowed under 50 as well...

First character given 10 cp upon turning 50.

Second character 10 cp to 116 cp from 1-50.

Third character 116 cp to 175 cp from 1-50.

Fourth character 175 cp to 222 cp from 1-50.

Fifth character 222 cp to 261 cp from 1-50.

Sixth character 261 cp to 296 cp from 1-50.

Seventh character 296 cp to 327 cp from 1-50.

Eighth character 327 cp to 357 cp from 1-50.

357 CP... from casually playing 8 characters 1-50.

NO, we do not need this.

AlnilamE · June 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

emily3989 wrote: »

CP should be disabled until 50. Just my opinion. I don't use it on any alts myself.

This is my thought, too. CPs should have been for Level 50 characters ONLY.

Personally, I only put enough CP on my sub-50 characters that they'll get Plentiful Harvest and Master Gatherer. They can do without the rest till they grow up, but those two passives are a must. :-P

ADarklore · June 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

emily3989 wrote: »

CP should be disabled until 50. Just my opinion. I don't use it on any alts myself.

This is my thought, too. CPs should have been for Level 50 characters ONLY.

I'm sure glad you're not in charge of this game... nothing like wanting to take OPTIONS away from players instead of offering them 'personal responsibility' by giving them CHOICES. A person doesn't HAVE TO utilize their CP, but it's nice for players like me who love to be OP for content not to have to struggle with each and every alt we create. Because I've leveled so many, it's nice to be able to steamroll 1-50 so I can graduate to Cadwell's faster and start earning CP.

Korah_Eaglecry · June 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

I am a slow leveller. I am a completionist. I like to do every achievement in every zone when levelling up a new character.
It lets me experiment and taste every skill and how they work together in many hours of combat as well as savour the story lines.
Granted that doesn't make me any good. But I try.
Basically I like to actually experience the content that was created and that I paid for, rather than bypassing it all using the quickest method possible.

The problem is the power gap between low CP and high CP is immense and power creep is now becoming a massive issue.
So maxing out CP is now fundamentally a requirement if you want to compete.
ie participate in the game on an equal footing.
When you see players with 30000+ health & 50000+ magicka, you know how thats going to end.

Their burst consists of 20 chained hits before they even thinking about resource management.
And if they havent killed you by then they'd probably never kill anyone...especially with power scaling off that much magicka and the DPS that results from it.
..........

But criticising game balance is not the point of this thread.
My point is the Champion system the way it currently works.

I am a Vet player. As long as I play my veteran character I amass more CP and progress to the cap.
However....if I play my alts....I get ZERO CP.
So veteran progress is account wide...but if you are a vet playing alts....it isnt account wide !?!??!

I can put 100s of hours into those alts and get 0CP for all that effort even though I am a VET.
Yet someone with 1 vet character can continue to play that for the same 100s of hours and be gaining CP every second uninterrupted.
Even though we are both vets putting in the same amount of time.

My only option (realistically) is to speed grind any alts to vet level ASAP and miss out on all the story line and content.
ZOS....Is that really your idea ? Ignore your 1-50 content to be able to play your 50+ content.
Should gaining a wide level of deep experience across multiple builds not be rewarded rather than punished ?
Should savouring the content you poured 100s of man hours into not be encouraged ?

SOLUTION.
Can you PLEASE make CP continue to progress with any character rather than only 50+...once you have reached Veteran level on at least one character on your account.
Frankly I am not personally bothered if you disable CP on level 1-50 characters either as 1-50 PvP is non CP anyway.
But the inability to progress CP on any 1-50 alt is a penalty with no reason to exist (except zero vet characters).
Not that I can fathom on an account wide system anyway.

Ahem........................No.

Tonnopesce · June 2016

How about Focus on your vet toons for a month or so, cap CP to at least 501 and then play with your alts? The game and the CP cap is not going anywhere till mid september so you have time.

Now i'm at 499 ( and i get kicked from groups cuz i'm not a pro 501 CP player....lol) two CP left to freedom and i have already ready, two new toons to Focus in the next few months.
Since the cap is not changing soon i have all the time to play as i want.

idk · June 2016

This statement from the OP makes no sense.

"I am a Vet player. As long as I play my veteran character I amass more CP and progress to the cap.
However....if I play my alts....I get ZERO CP.
So veteran progress is account wide...but if you are a vet playing alts....it isnt account wide !?!??!"

I gain CP while playing my alts.

Nestor · June 2016

Runs wrote: »

2,296,964 is the total exp to level 50 taken from UESP
CP calculations below using this formula >>> ((TotalPoints / (Cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000

If a player where to get to 50 and stop, they would be at 10 cp.

Newly minted accounts when they get a character to 50 already get the 10 Champ Points they would have earned if CPs were given out while Leveling. So, we already get champ points for our first 1 to 50 character. No need for double dipping.

Besides, the way Enlightenment works, any time you spend on your sub 50 Alts is time that is added to your enlightenment on your L50 characters. That works much better than getting any points in the 1 to 50 content.

Runs · June 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

2,296,964 is the total exp to level 50 taken from UESP
CP calculations below using this formula >>> ((TotalPoints / (Cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000

If a player where to get to 50 and stop, they would be at 10 cp.

Newly minted accounts when they get a character to 50 already get the 10 Champ Points they would have earned if CPs were given out while Leveling. So, we already get champ points for our first 1 to 50 character. No need for double dipping.

Besides, the way Enlightenment works, any time you spend on your sub 50 Alts is time that is added to your enlightenment on your L50 characters. That works much better than getting any points in the 1 to 50 content.

"If a player where to get to 50 and stop, they would be at 10 cp. " << That would be the newly minted character, there was no double dipping involved in the calculations. The rest(2nd-8th) did not include a "free" 10 cp, they were purely the last characters cp amount plus 2,300,000 exp.

You get a fixed amount of enlightenment per day, stackable for up to 12 days. You will get the same amount per day no mater how much time you spend on sub 50 alts.

Ourorboros · June 2016

It's impossible to create a system that everyone loves. The current system works fine for most players. OP is not one of them. That's life.

Reykice · June 2016

AlnilamE wrote: »

You need 2.3 million XP to level from 1-50 (source: http://uesp.net/wiki/Online:Leveling) so you would get about 5 champion points out of that, give or take.

I'm assuming your characters are probably half way there already, so even less than that.

Personally, I still have 2 characters that are non-vet (not counting my Iron Vestige), and I play them in little bits and take them to guild events between playing my vet characters to earn CP (which I can do by questing as well).

This... its not that they could not do it but why bother when you get such low xp...

Celas_Dranacea · June 2016

I remember the CP grind very distinctly as I have only had a few months since i completed it.

So I totally feel for you. I hated feeling like I was waisting my time if I wasn't grinding CP furiously in the sewers. I had months where before allowing myself to do anything else in game, each day I would grind out my enlightenment + one additional cp.

I'm not totally opposed to allowing people to gain CP as nonvets- that could be fine. but in the event that this doesn't happen, just try your best to enjoy the journey to max cp.

The sewers is still a great place to farm and it's not the worst daily ritual to go down there. Put on some music or listen to something on YouTube, and grind out your daily cp in 30 minutes - you should be able to gain 2 in that time frame if you have 1-2 partners, have 1 day of enlightenment and are using an exp potion. The nice thing is that your farming a lot of high value stuff that way too.

Alternately, do the daily pledges on your vet + maybe a random dungeon. You need those undaunted Passives and monster sets anyway!

After that, you can "clock out" and do whatever else in the game that you wanna do, like leveling alts.

Anyhow, as a semi-hardcore player with a full time job and family, I totally feel your pain, and wanna say there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Props to you for wanting to take your time and enjoy the content.

Khenarthi · June 2016

To the OP... I have the same playstyle, taking stuff as slow as I like and completing a zone before moving on. I make it work by alternating playing my non-vet characters for a couple of days (or a week) and then I'll spend the enlightenment accumulated by playing a vet character for a while (usually a few days or a week).

Actually it's not hard to reach CP cap now with all the catch up mechanics, and it kinda gets moot when you're over the cap anyway, so I'd advise you to just play as you like, doing the activities that you enjoy. CP will be gained eventually.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · June 2016

The amount of XP required to get from level 1 to level 50 wont give you many CP so whats the point?

Acrolas · June 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

I am a slow leveller. I am a completionist. I like to do every achievement in every zone when levelling up a new character.
It lets me experiment and taste every skill and how they work together in many hours of combat as well as savour the story lines.
Granted that doesn't make me any good. But I try.
Basically I like to actually experience the content that was created and that I paid for, rather than bypassing it all using the quickest method possible.

...yet you want a quicker method.
There's just too much contradiction here to bother arguing. Choices have consequences. If wasting extra time on low level content isn't helping you learn to play, you probably shouldn't be getting rewarded for it.

If you spend 10 extra hours studying and you get an F, you're not studying right. The solution isn't to give you a piece of an A for every hour you studied. The solution is to prioritize, focus, and nail the *** test.