Rude/inconsiderate behaviour in PUG's

Ashtaris · June 2016

Farorin wrote: »

One thing that ticks me off to no end is when everyone knows exactly how the fight works, but we wipe for some reason, and then some big mouth starts trying to tell everyone how the fight works and acting like they are the only one that has run that dungeon before.

But then there are times when you ask in group chat "Does everyone know this fight?", everyone says yes, and you can tell within a couple of minutes that someone was lying

Shunravi · June 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

EquinoxS wrote: »

I'm no master angler but maybe he was going for a fishing achievment?

Seems harsh kicking them.

I am a master angler and I can assure you that fishing in dungeons is not required for the achievement. Should a player choose to try his luck there, what he should do is ask friends or guildies to help him get there up to the desired fishing spot and fish happily. Frankly, doing this in a PUG sounds like pure trolling to me. I'd have kicked him too.

gasp!

I thought kicking was like some kind of cardinal sin to you @anitajoneb17_ESO

ZOS_DaryaK · June 2016

We've removed a couple of posts that did not contribute to this discussion.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · June 2016

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

Baconfat79 wrote: »

Some of my favorites:

1.) People who join a run and have ZERO soul gems, then expect us to sit and wait while they wayshrine and run back everybtime they die. Not to mention the fact that they can't raise others.

2.) People who join and then go AFK every couple minutes.

3.) People who queue as a tank or healer, but only have a DPS loadout.

4.) People who join, but have 12k HP and no food.

5.) The bad-ass who posts DPS parses after every pull. Not even bosses...trash pulls. Congrats. We're all very impressed.

Although I agree with most of these I'd tend to disagree with point 3, mainly because there's less and less need for tanks in this game. You can get by in most dungeons with 3 average DPS and a healer, or 4 decent DPS for that matter. In fact some dungeons are easier without a tank (vet darkshade for example)

It just boils down to DPS not realising you have to self sustain to a degree and stop relying on having your hand held by the tank as he take literally ALL the aggro and expect the healer to only be looking at your health bars and not contributing to damage.

Well a healtank is very useful. You get 3 dps and someone who can tank too.

Very good for speed runs.

Lightninvash · June 2016

chaserstorm16909 wrote: »

Baconfat79 wrote: »

Some of my favorites:

1.) People who join a run and have ZERO soul gems, then expect us to sit and wait while they wayshrine and run back everybtime they die. Not to mention the fact that they can't raise others.

2.) People who join and then go AFK every couple minutes.

3.) People who queue as a tank or healer, but only have a DPS loadout.

4.) People who join, but have 12k HP and no food.

5.) The bad-ass who posts DPS parses after every pull. Not even bosses...trash pulls. Congrats. We're all very impressed.

How about the guy who shows up with his gear at 0% and has to leave the dungeon to get it repaired?

I did this on accident once forgot to repair my gear on my healer the last time I was on him and queued for the vet pledge got in and started fighting when the notification popped up saying gear damaged. I was like crap so instead of wasting time I bought crown repair boxes so I wouldn't have to hop to town and make everyone wait haha.

gw2only1b14_ESO · June 2016

This Thread sums up why I PVP 70% of the time in this game and farm mats the other 30%

Woeler · June 2016

Aaaah the group finder, the place for the really desperate people. Never been there.

rotaugen454 · June 2016

I always carry repair kits just in case I forgot to repair and find myself in a group.

As a high level, I have done runs with low level players just to cross the dungeon off the achievement list. I tended to just heal everyone and get a few shots in on the boss so I don't ruin it for others by soloing it while they got nothing.

It's really simple to not be rude. Just think how you would feel if someone was doing the same thing to you.

SolarCat02 · June 2016

PUGs can go either way...

Example 1:

And few days ago I queued solo for the Vaults of Madness silver pledge. Got a group of three from a different faction who queued together, and ended up hearing the tale end of a complaint about Dragonknight healers as I join chat.

They were a bit rude and condescending, but I wanted my key and the first attempt at the queue had been really buggy and was only fixed by a trip to Cyrodiil, so I decided to stick with it. After assuring them I was indeed a primary healer (apparently I am healer number 4 for this evening), we killed the first trash mob, and they start looking around trying to figure out which way to go. Oh boy. Very obvious they haven't ever done this dungeon before, and hadn't survived the first mob in the other 3 attempts.

I started explaining mechanics as we went along, and as we progressed they started listening more and more. Dungeon was slow as molasses in the beginning, and the tank redid his bars to add a taunt after the flesh atronach lava boss, but they were really getting the hang of things and the dragon boss only got two uninterrupted pounces in (and I was not the one interrupting). Only one party wipe (they fell off walking the narrow plank about a third of the way through and my build can't solo the timed banekin unless I have my ultimate up).

It was very rewarding, and I was so glad I stuck with it! I did some good.

Example 2

Other run? Veteran Crypt of Hearts with two other guildmates, just queued for a tank. Our tank admitted in chat "I queued as tank because DPS takes too long." Should have kicked him then.

I remarked that at least this was a helmet run so we could burn the adds at the final boss, and he announced he wanted the gold key from the pledge several days ago. Started condescendingly talking about how we didn't need a tank for that because he could do it easily. Should have kicked him then.

Spider boss, he kept running the red AoE underneath me and keeping it there while I was wrapped in the web waiting for someone to free me. (He didn't attempt to free me, either). I died three times to that. Should have kicked him then.

Trash pulls, his health was low for most of them and I died twice from running out of magicka healing him and getting focused when he died. Probably should have kicked him then.

The bone colossus, he kept insisting we had to take the adds out first and wouldn't focus the boss in spite of our insistence that the adds just respond if you kill them. Should have kicked him then.

He actually did really well on the second to last boss. Glimmer of hope?

Final boss we wiped 6 times. He kept telling us when to burn and not burn the wraiths and didn't listen when we told him about the sword mechanic, and yelled at me for staying on the boss when I was the one calling out the block warnings for the skull attack. Should have kicked him then. He had the guts to send me a guild invite between some of these wipes, too (but not my guildmates, just me).

He did try to tank the wraiths but his health was falling so quickly I could not heal him through it, and then the wraiths would go after me because of all the aggro from the healing. I asked his health and resistances and discovered they were lower than mine. "But it's fine, I don't need them." Explained to him how difficult he was to keep alive when he wasn't tanking, and why would he queue as a tank when he couldn't even help me keep him alive to trash mobs. Whole time he was trying to convince me that his poor understanding of the mechanics was the correct way to do it. Was getting ready to kick him then (and my guildmates were requesting via messages, too) when he dropped the group instead.

My husband (also dps) had just gotten home from work at that point, so we invited him to join, and it was a cakewalk. We did wipe the first attempt because this was only his second time in this dungeon and the first run, the boss glitched and never grabbed the sword, so he needed to learn the mechanics. Second attempt was quick and flawless.

I am not afraid of PUGs, but I do need to get less afraid of kicking people when they show their inability to listen. (And also when they try to act like they know the dungeon better, when it's clear everything they know is from internet guides).

Nestor · June 2016

What is really odd about the Fishing break is, if you clear a Group Dungeon, it stays cleared until you leave it. So, you could have finished the dungeon, then he could have gone back and fished all they wanted.

Although, not exactly sure what would happen if he was from another alliance and the group got dissolved while they were still in there. Probably Something.

EDITED

Giraffon · June 2016

Nestor wrote: »

What is really odd about the Fishing break is, if you clear a Group Dungeon, it stays cleared until you leave it. So, you could have finished the dungeon, then he could have gone back and fished all they wanted.

Although, not exactly sure what would happen if he was from another alliance and the group got dissolved while they were still in there. Probably nothing.

I think if the crown leaves the dungeon than the whole group gets ported out in like 60 seconds. So unless you have the crown you really won't be able to go back and explore. I've actually asked for crown after finishing a dungeon so that I can go back and wander around. That works pretty well. If he wanted to fish, he should have done that.

But I haven't tried the crown trick since DB so I'm not sure if it still works.

idk · June 2016

Nce not believe you kicked me. I was out of food and needed to get some fab to craft more. It hadn't been more than 10-15 minutes.

Some people have no patience.

Pathfindr · June 2016

Nestor wrote: »

What is really odd about the Fishing break is, if you clear a Group Dungeon, it stays cleared until you leave it. So, you could have finished the dungeon, then he could have gone back and fished all they wanted.

Although, not exactly sure what would happen if he was from another alliance and the group got dissolved while they were still in there. Probably nothing.

If the group is disbanded everyone is automatically ported out after like 30 seconds. Wether you have finished the quest or is still listening to npc dialogue doesn't matter either. If at least one more player stays in the group you can wander around, but with pug groups that rarely happens. Leave and requeue seems to be the default behavior.

Shunravi · June 2016

Pathfindr wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

What is really odd about the Fishing break is, if you clear a Group Dungeon, it stays cleared until you leave it. So, you could have finished the dungeon, then he could have gone back and fished all they wanted.

Although, not exactly sure what would happen if he was from another alliance and the group got dissolved while they were still in there. Probably nothing.

If the group is disbanded everyone is automatically ported out after like 30 seconds. Wether you have finished the quest or is still listening to npc dialogue doesn't matter either. If at least one more player stays in the group you can wander around, but with pug groups that rarely happens. Leave and requeue seems to be the default behavior.

The port needs to come with a 'leave the instance?' button.

Mureel · June 2016

Nestor wrote: »

What is really odd about the Fishing break is, if you clear a Group Dungeon, it stays cleared until you leave it. So, you could have finished the dungeon, then he could have gone back and fished all they wanted.

Although, not exactly sure what would happen if he was from another alliance and the group got dissolved while they were still in there. Probably nothing.

When group breaks timer ticks off and you get booted.

W0lf_z13 · June 2016

i was kicked once a while ago in the middle of a dungeon ... i was on my magblade throwing out Merciless Resolve, reaping mark, funnel health weaving light and heavy attacks and other skills as well ... one of the guys in the group started yelling at me to stop using aoe ( which at the time i was on occasion using sap essence ) so i was like ok thats fine.... stopped using SE but continued my other rotation ... long story short the guy continued to yell at me about using funnel health cause "it was an aoe" ... got into an argument over the fact that it ISNT AoE and then i got kicked

anitajoneb17_ESO · June 2016

Shunravi wrote: »

I thought kicking was like some kind of cardinal sin to you @anitajoneb17_ESO

You misunderstood. Try to understand again, it's not that hard.

Shunravi · June 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

I thought kicking was like some kind of cardinal sin to you @anitajoneb17_ESO

You misunderstood. Try to understand again, it's not that hard.

With how adamant you have been about it, it's not hard to misunderstand.

How do you define being trolled? Cause if that's an exception to previous discussions on kicking, many things can be considered trolling.

BeepEqualsOne · June 2016

I will usually be one of the first people to defend those in the PUG's. I honestly do not care if I am running with a vet 16 that knows every role perfectly or a level 15 on his first character. We have all been there at one point and I have no issue being apart of that learning curve for some people. However, I have noticed more and more people claiming they are heals or tanks when they do not even have the courtesy of throwing out a single heal... My favorite, which just happened, was when my PUG healer decided to fight every boss as a werewolf... Because you know, those werewolves can sure dish out those potent group heals.... Again, I have no problem if a PUG is trying to learn the ropes, and so long as they are at least attempting to fulfill their role then I am fine, but it is getting ridiculous! Most of these people are just claiming all 3 roles so they get in a PUG quicker, only to screw over the group, so yea something should be done.

I would support an option to review a player at the end of a dungeon to help reduce this issue, especially in combination with a vote to kick. Nothing so harsh as to claim a player sucks or not, but simply put, Did Player X do their job and contribute to the dungeon? A simple yes or no, let others in the group see this score and make their own minds up about the player. Clearly if our werewolf healer has 50+ NO's and he is supposed to be a healer in our group, then sorry off you go to mess up someone else's dungeon runs. Don't like it, then perhaps you should start filling the role you are trying to play!

anitajoneb17_ESO · June 2016

Shunravi wrote: »

With how adamant you have been about it, it's not hard to misunderstand.

How do you define being trolled? Cause if that's an exception to previous discussions on kicking, many things can be considered trolling.

What's your question / point / issue here please, in relation to the current topic ? I know what you're referring to, but most readers of this thread don't.

Shunravi · June 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

I thought kicking was like some kind of cardinal sin to you @anitajoneb17_ESO

You misunderstood. Try to understand again, it's not that hard.

With how adamant you have been about it, it's not hard to misunderstand.

How do you define being trolled? Cause if that's an exception to previous discussions on kicking, many things can be considered trolling.

Shunravi wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

I thought kicking was like some kind of cardinal sin to you @anitajoneb17_ESO

You misunderstood. Try to understand again, it's not that hard.

With how adamant you have been about it, it's not hard to misunderstand.

How do you define being trolled? Cause if that's an exception to previous discussions on kicking, many things can be considered trolling.

What's your question / point / issue here please, in relation to the current topic ? I know what you're referring to, but most readers of this thread don't.

Well my original point was to have a bit of fun, honestly. No ill intent. Was actually kinda hoping you would play along somehow and we could discuss fishing or something. Oh well...

But more on topic; you can't really control what others do in an instance. It's unfortunate that the player wasn't communicating and it came down to a kick. But sometimes that's what it takes to keep going.

But if you are asking specifically about my question about how you define trolling, I thought that was rather straightforward. Is it when someone doesn't communicate? Or when someone is afk (or in this case enjoying the scenery and fishing?)

ContraTempo · June 2016

LMAO, fishing? Really? Wow.

I do want to add this though:
In non-CP/Vet -- and especially early ones like Wayrest -- you can expect to get people who don't know how to work with a group. They have to start somewhere. If they are trying, just help them L2P. Early on I went in as a healer because I sure did not know how to DPS or tank. I really did not know how to heal either, but back then spamming BOL was enough. And with some advice, I got better. Much better.

I'm not saying any of that applies to this guy. He wasn't non-vet and he wasn't trying.

Shunravi · June 2016

ContraTempo wrote: »

LMAO, fishing? Really? Wow.

I do want to add this though:
In non-CP/Vet -- and especially early ones like Wayrest -- you can expect to get people who don't know how to work with a group. They have to start somewhere. If they are trying, just help them L2P. Early on I went in as a healer because I sure did not know how to DPS or tank. I really did not know how to heal either, but back then spamming BOL was enough. And with some advice, I got better. Much better.

I'm not saying any of that applies to this guy. He wasn't non-vet and he wasn't trying.

Maybe the guy was taking it slow and enjoying the scenery.... Seems like a lot of people in the past on these forums have complained about being kicked because they were to slow and wanted to enjoy the environment. Is this only applicable to lower level players too?

anitajoneb17_ESO · June 2016

Shunravi wrote: »

Well my original point was to have a bit of fun, honestly. No ill intent. Was actually kinda hoping you would play along somehow and we could discuss fishing or something. Oh well...

But more on topic; you can't really control what others do in an instance. It's unfortunate that the player wasn't communicating and it came down to a kick. But sometimes that's what it takes to keep going.

But if you are asking specifically about my question about how you define trolling, I thought that was rather straightforward. Is it when someone doesn't communicate? Or when someone is afk (or in this case enjoying the scenery and fishing?)

If there was no ill intent, then sorry, I was on the defensive and cautious side here ;-)

For the fun of it, we could imagine that the Group Finder should have a option for grouping anglers and that some addon would share "fishing luck" statistics together with "perfect roe statistics" and that the group leader would kick the player with the lesser stats

As to your more serious question, trolling is all about intention, and we're not in anyone else's head, so yeah, it's hard to define, but in this case, it seems pretty obvious that joining a group that's openly meant to complete the dungeon and starting to fish instead of fighting, without asking or even saying a word, looks to me like pure provocation / intention to disturb.

It could as well have been a total newbie discovering fishing, thinking it was part of doing the dungeon, whatever... but what do you want to do if people don't communicate ?

Shunravi · June 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Well my original point was to have a bit of fun, honestly. No ill intent. Was actually kinda hoping you would play along somehow and we could discuss fishing or something. Oh well...

But more on topic; you can't really control what others do in an instance. It's unfortunate that the player wasn't communicating and it came down to a kick. But sometimes that's what it takes to keep going.

But if you are asking specifically about my question about how you define trolling, I thought that was rather straightforward. Is it when someone doesn't communicate? Or when someone is afk (or in this case enjoying the scenery and fishing?)

If there was no ill intent, then sorry, I was on the defensive and cautious side here ;-)

For the fun of it, we could imagine that the Group Finder should have a option for grouping anglers and that some addon would share "fishing luck" statistics together with "perfect roe statistics" and that the group leader would kick the player with the lesser stats

As to your more serious question, trolling is all about intention, and we're not in anyone else's head, so yeah, it's hard to define, but in this case, it seems pretty obvious that joining a group that's openly meant to complete the dungeon and starting to fish instead of fighting, without asking or even saying a word, looks to me like pure provocation / intention to disturb.

It could as well have been a total newbie discovering fishing, thinking it was part of doing the dungeon, whatever... but what do you want to do if people don't communicate ?

The best fishing hole in the deepest darkest dungeon! Biggest fish gets the helm!

Well, exactly. But how do we know he didn't have some sort of emergency either that pulled him away from the game and all he had time to do was put his character in a fishing spot to show he was active in some way. Sure there was no 'brb' or anything. Maybe it didn't occur to him... Maybe he did have coms off, and didn't have the time to turn it back on. Dunno.

But yea, without communication things can be annoying. In this case I think the kick may be warranted, simply because there was no way of knowing what was going on.

But then again, if the fishing was still active in however much time went by, he might have either terrible luck, or he was playing and actually trolling (for fish)

Hard to say.

Shunravi · June 2016

However you slice it though the guy was trolling... Be it fish or reactions.

Mureel · June 2016

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

i was kicked once a while ago in the middle of a dungeon ... i was on my magblade throwing out Merciless Resolve, reaping mark, funnel health weaving light and heavy attacks and other skills as well ... one of the guys in the group started yelling at me to stop using aoe ( which at the time i was on occasion using sap essence ) so i was like ok thats fine.... stopped using SE but continued my other rotation ... long story short the guy continued to yell at me about using funnel health cause "it was an aoe" ... got into an argument over the fact that it ISNT AoE and then i got kicked

OMG

Shunravi · June 2016

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

i was kicked once a while ago in the middle of a dungeon ... i was on my magblade throwing out Merciless Resolve, reaping mark, funnel health weaving light and heavy attacks and other skills as well ... one of the guys in the group started yelling at me to stop using aoe ( which at the time i was on occasion using sap essence ) so i was like ok thats fine.... stopped using SE but continued my other rotation ... long story short the guy continued to yell at me about using funnel health cause "it was an aoe" ... got into an argument over the fact that it ISNT AoE and then i got kicked

That's just.... I can't even...

FrostFallFox · June 2016

Finger pointing and throwing a fit is the worst.

cote-bmsb16_ESO · June 2016

Most of my guildies were pugs once. lol