Everything is overpriced, game requires so much grind - RNG gods are evil

Lysette · June 2016

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

This game is one of the least grindy MMOs I have ever played.

The only thing really saving this economy from a hyper deflation collapse is the frequest DLCs and the 7 or 8 items that are still actually in demand.

To be quite honest, if you are v16 (sorry, CP160) and broke then you are doing something wrong. I get about 2 hours play time a day, if that. I break about 400k a week in guild sales.

How so? Most of my gold goes to potions. I use like a 100 of them everyday and they cost like 15-20k.
Income from ap boxes barely catches up with it. Dungeon gears are bind on pickup, so no gold from there.
I do 100% pvp though, no any flower picking or anything like that. Maybe that's the problem lol.

I can tell you for a fact, if you're buying potions instead of making them yourself then you're asking to be poor, like you said they're expensive (they involve a lot of work to farm, this coming from someone who both farms for himself and for selling potions to others) and you'll save yourself a lot by making your own.

But this guy saying he makes 400k per week while only playing two hours a day.... I don't know what he's doing or what he's smoking but I have a hard time believing that, not saying he's a liar necessarily but that seems unlikely to be sure. Maybe the economy is just that different from mine on whatever platform he's on, but nothing I could get by doing any activity would ever sell for anywhere close to that.

Who said this - I think you are referring to me - I said about 50k in 4-5 hours, not 2 hours. And I am not doing that on every day in the week. I cannot even play on every day at all, because I have a life, career, partner and 2 helicopters and a glider, and I love flying and that takes quite some time as well. So 50k in 4-5 hours means, when I am willing to do that, I can make that - but this does not mean it would be 350k per week. It is a mix of things actually, writs, thief troves gathering in the early morning, where not many are playing, buying all the under-priced mats, when supply is high and demand low (after people went to bed) and list them in other places or transfer them at the next possible time to my contractor and getting paid. Thief troves and fencing the large crate's content makes me about 30-40k with 8 characters already, rest is from other activities.

It wasn't you, it was a guy named Makkir

Ah ok, 400k was so near to 350k - so I assumed you meant me. Best time for my approach is monday morning though, people have done a lot on the weekend and need their sleep sunday night, but they have listed their valuables and there are not many buyers around and concurrence in the offers is high - result, there are always offers, which try to beat other offers by under-pricing them. Especially when they have just vendors in remote locations - there is always profit to be made by transferring them to contractors who have the best traders and can over-price items, due to that they are so easily accessible.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

A lot of people are heavily flipping stuff, for one.
4 days back we were drowning in mats sold for free basically, now...
Whomever is manipulating the economy, he's a frikken ***.

Lysette · June 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

A lot of people are heavily flipping stuff, for one.
4 days back we were drowning in mats sold for free basically, now...
Whomever is manipulating the economy, he's a frikken ***.

yeah, prices differ quite a lot dependent on trader location and how many traders a guild has - I monitor that and especially when there are changes in traders - a guild lost a trader, now they have to sell all in just one spot for example - result there is not the same demand like before, but the same supply - result prices go down there. These swings, when detected early on, can make good profit if you have a way to access - even if indirect - high quality traders in prime locations, where these items can be heavily over-priced.

And no, he is not a a freaking ***, that is market pvp.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

I used to pay about 20K for a full purple set V8/CP80.
Now it costs me a whopping 160K...

That's 8 times the price over 4 days???

Ridiculous.

Lysette · June 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

I used to pay about 20K for a full purple set V8/CP80.
Now it costs me a whopping 160K...

That's 8 times the price over 4 days???

Ridiculous.

There you see what profit is to be made in market pvp

Edit: I mean that was to be expected - ZOS is selling character slots - that means a few days after the release of that DLC people will have reached level 50 with those new characters and need now high level gear for them. Playing the market is not about prices in the first place, but about to estimate future player behavior related to markets. Just like I pointed out here.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

Well, i am 195, and I cannot compete with the prices to be payed now.
I'm completely stuck, I have about 90K gold, which was normally enough for my purple v16/cp160 outfit...
Frikken marvelous.

Lysette · June 2016

Just wait, after this run where all need these mats, prices will go down again, because there is no follow up demand. This is a sudden peak now, because so many alts are speed-leveled to 50 now. But you have to be patient, because there is as well a low in supply - it will take a while to balance out again.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

I hope so, 240K for a set I cannot pay up.
Seems I'm stuck on my V1 set for a while...

Lysette · June 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

I hope so, 240K for a set I cannot pay up.
Seems I'm stuck on my V1 set for a while...

Hard to say how fast the supply will be refreshed - I doubt that people will hold back, but rather want to sell what they have at those still higher prices. So I guess it will not take too long, if everyone wants a piece of this cake. Depends as well how many alts will be level 50 soon. Have a look at those zones before level 50, how crowded those are, to get an idea maybe.

There might as well be a swing in prices throughout a week - with prices being lower around thursday and high after the weekend. Reasoning behind it, get items listed right before the weekend starts - many do that, high competition, temporarily over-supply, so lower prices. After the weekend it is the other way round, lots was sold, now supply is low and cannot be refreshed easily, but demand is not that much lower. So prices go up.

Well, that is even like you told me - 4 days ago prices low, you drowned in stuff - that was thursday - and now they are high, after the weekend. Bingo, it is exactly like expected.

Low level mat prices behave the other way round though - they are used throughout the week and supply is low before the weekend, and will be high after the weekend, when all want to sell what they have gathered during the weekend. So low level mat should be more expensive before the weekend and lower in price after the weekend.

Molag_Crow · June 2016

Agreed. I don't like the idea of Legendary quality gear being "a must" to compete. Epic gear should be enough for any current content, and legendary gear should be considered a bonus.

Averya_Teira · June 2016

Soris wrote: »

Well my long term and short term goal is just having fun and fair fights in pvp. Not gear progression. And it is what it was before in cyrodiil and it should be again.

CoD or BF might be a better fit for you then.

Lysette · June 2016

Fair fights in pvp - lol - outside of arenas, tournaments or battlegrounds with rules pretty much impossible.

Eweroun · June 2016

Soris wrote: »

Since there are no more softcaps, you need best quality items to compete in this game. A single gold quality sword gives around 400 more weapon damage with rally compared to the purple ones. Upgrade mats, robust/arcane rings, enchants, every single one of them are vital parts for any build. So why the *** have they so low drop rates and thus expensive?

I hardly have to buy those; doing the refining myself and the daily's gives me more than enough on them... and either way it's not that you change gear every day

Soris wrote: »

This game used to be less grindy before. You could use full purple gear and be king in everything thanks to soft caps. And in those days making a build cost you 10x less than now. It's just asian grind right now. Most of the non crafted stuffs are bind on pickup, meaning you need to farm the same dungeon for thousands of times to get something you need and yet there is no guarantee on what trait you will get. You might end up with most unfortunate trait/armor matching after a week of grind.

True, but is farming dungeons with friends not just a part of an MMO? Personaly I farmed CoH to get divine Nerenieth Helmet with some guildies; now that I have it... I still farm it, so my mates could drop it as well...

Soris wrote: »

Last night I just went to the guild traders to upgrade my weapons only to see 9k for a single tempering alloy. You need 8 of them to upgrade a single piece of a weapon, so 72k gold just to upgrade it from purple to gold.. x2 if you dual wield.

Rules of the market, and like already said before by @markbonafeub17_ESO : it's a real life's lesson...

Soris wrote: »

This endless grind madness must stop already. This game used to be fun before.

Oh no pls.. reward is to those putting an effort ... (not telling you did not)...
Still remember the moment I dropped my Nerenieth helmet... what a great feeling I had.. You immediatly forget all the grinding you did..

cheers man,
Eweroun

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

I do not sell a thing, i should, I guess, but I prefer to keep my stuff for my guild, I donate them everything I come to get.
Our Master Crafter decons my blue gear, green and less is vendored off.
I dislike the current guild Action System, since it's a hell finding something useful.
TOO many spread around too mush/far.
If I were to look for something, I need a whole day, and still not have what i am looking for.
Maddness.

Maybe they need to introduce a system where it's told what is sold where...?
Like a Trader Info System?

Diozaels · June 2016

Grinding is part of every MMO, but in ESO it stands out more than others do now (compared to other western MMOs). I think that really comes down to this game being more about RP and dress up than actual ranked gameplay/ progression.

Usually in MMOs you would grind dungeons to obtain gear for trials/raids or battlegrounds/open world pop for arenas. Where in this game you grind materials usually for crated gear or atleast grind for the upgrade materials.

It helps make crafting actually feel useful compared to pretty much every other MMO and to help new players get into the content they want to play by being hooked up by a guildie or friend, but honestly takes away from actually really learning and growing with your character... At least in my opinion.

Vinther · June 2016

OP should learn to Pvp then if he can't handle PvE for quick gold. I make tons of money from Pvp by selling Ap and TV stones. It's even more easy now with old sets scaled up and being useful. Not to mention gold jewelry drop for leaderboard players. Definitely a l2p issue.

Probably one of those instant gratification generation kids who should just stick to playing lol or CS.

Useless thread.

Sallington · June 2016

Hirelings need to start giving more frequent gold mats again, and they need to increase the drop rate of gold mats from refining. Writs being the most reliable way to gather gold mats is 100% BS.

Add gold mats for Tel Var stones. Add a chance for a gold mat on a resource gather similar to nincrux and Kutas. The prices right now are insane.

You want to make a competitive set of heavy armor? You better have ~350k gold just for the gold upgrade mats

Farorin · June 2016

I agree with OP, the grinding was minimal and the focus used to be on the skill and gameplay. Not it is just focused on who grinds the most. Who grinds wins. That's just not fun.

ESO is moving more towards a heavy grinding and RNG based game, and it is sad. I hope the course changes, or I for one won't stick around for endless grinding with no end in sight.

Sweetpea704 · June 2016

If you just pick up mats on the way to everywhere you go, you can pretty much save up all your mats. It is all just laying around in dungeons and on the ground. Pick it up. Save it up. Improve one piece at a time while you keep playing. I rarely grind and I was able to gold out my gear just doing daily writs on one toon and picking up crap. It took about two weeks. Next, get in a good trade guild and sell some of the crap you pick up. I make about 100,000 in gold a week - enough to buy a mo stet helm a week. Also, shoulders are a guaranteed drop in every gold pledge. Do pledges.

Shadesofkin · June 2016

While I agree that the rng of the game has gotten out of hand, there are many things that can be done with all purple gear. I can and have beaten Maelstrom in Purple gear for example. It took more doing, but I pulled it off in the end.

The issue of things like alloys and wax and what not is a matter of effort, you can put in the effort to make enough gold (something I did a few times) or you can put in the effort to farm so much silk and ore that the odds might just make it in your favor over time (and you can always sell the refined mats).

Don't get me wrong, numbers have grown silly and I sympathize, but many of us have already learned to adapt so it's very hard not to wonder why you aren't doing the same.

glavius · June 2016

Gold weapons gold glyphs rest purple. Not that expensive and nearly as good as full gold

Makkir · June 2016

Soris wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

This game is one of the least grindy MMOs I have ever played.

The only thing really saving this economy from a hyper deflation collapse is the frequest DLCs and the 7 or 8 items that are still actually in demand.

To be quite honest, if you are v16 (sorry, CP160) and broke then you are doing something wrong. I get about 2 hours play time a day, if that. I break about 400k a week in guild sales.

How so? Most of my gold goes to potions. I use like a 100 of them everyday and they cost like 15-20k.
Income from ap boxes barely catches up with it. Dungeon gears are bind on pickup, so no gold from there.
I do 100% pvp though, no any flower picking or anything like that. Maybe that's the problem lol.

well i mean, if i sat home all day and smoked weed I wouldnt have a leg to stand on to argue about my lack of income.

Likewise, youll have to do a little legwork in game to maintain a comfortable level of gold.

susmitds · June 2016

Soris wrote: »

Smileybones wrote: »

Welcome to MMORPGs, where legendary stuff is *gasp* hard to get.

You know it's a design choice: instead of letting you get all the best stuffs in one week and then get bored and come crying here that there is no more things to do, things are difficult to get and you come crying here because of that.

Things are not difficult to get. Things have stupidly low rng to get. There is no challenge, there is only mindless grind doing exact same thing over and over and over. See the difference.

Lysette wrote: »

From were comes the notion, that all have to be the same strength?- Isn't it very rare, that it is a one on one fight at all?- In real life, when people do not have the same strength, what they do is use a different tactic and group up with others. I have not done any pvp in ESO yet, but quite a fair amount of pvp in EVE, and the normal situation is, that one group outnumbers an other, fights are rarely any fair and it does not require equal strength among single players, it just requires a good fleet commander - in ESO this might be more of a squad commander - but you get the idea, I guess.

The thing in eve is little different where you could adjust your orbit range, speed, weapon fall off etc to outplay your opponent even if you have worse modules than your enemy. In this game it's just quite simple, your damage, your regen, heals, dmg reductions, everything will be worse if you have worse gear than your enemy. And there is no way to outplay them. You can only do LoS'ing i guess.

If you think everything in ESO PvP is about damage, then you really need to recheck your playstyle. Let me state one of my favorite PvP styles.

On my stamina nightblade, I run blue quality Crusader set+Engine Guardian, and have beaten several players in full gold in 1v1s. Heck, I don't even remember when the last non-templar hit me twice in a row (yes, I am one of those annoying dodge spammers).
Just apply blood craze and keep dodging till they try to close in and then suddenly stop dodging, making them believe you are out of stamina. As soon as they try to go for the kill, use cloak+Suprise Attack, Soul Harvest/Incapacitating Strike, Poison intention and Killer's Blade in a row and there would be no more fighting.

Morathras · June 2016

spent at least 800k telvar stones for a special pvp set you get from the chests... i dont have all set pieces in good traits...

#RNGisLOVE

AlnilamE · June 2016

Sorry, OP, but the Black Desert forums are that way --->

Kidding aside, some people have given you some good tips already.

One thing I would recommend is to make sure each of your characters has hirelings, and that the character you are refining mats on has maxed refining passives.

While the hirelings don't bring as many gold improvers as they used to, they bring raw mats, and you can refine those. They also bring you green/blue/purple improvers which can be sold.

And I would really recommend writs, particularly alchemy. You get plants as your reward and it always asks for the same 4 potions at max level (and either Lorkhan's Tears or NIrnroot) so you can make a bunch and just auto-complete the writ when you pick it up.

And if you find that things are a bit quiet in Cyrodiil, stop to grab mats on your way from A to B. It will pile up quickly and you will find that you will make gold that way.

And yes, Akaviri pages. There are so many crafters out there that don't PvP. I'm working on enough AP to get my last page (which I'd have if I could bank the AP on my 4 characters that PvP), but I have friends who have asked me to get them pages when I have the AP to spare. I'm sure there are many more people out there just waiting for the Akaviri pages to be put up for sale.

That said, ESO is pretty forgiving if you don't have the absolute BiS gear. I've had as much fun in PvP running with my full v16 gold gear NB as with my Templar that's still wearing hand-me-downs. If I were to try something like that in Black Desert (I'm comparing it because I'm playing both games atm), I would be toast before I could blink.

Moglijuana · June 2016

Dammm only 9k for tempering alloys??? Ps4 guild traders are 12-15k lol. You should probably just git gud and go farm for half the time XD.

Makkir · June 2016

sorry double post

Makkir · June 2016

@Lucius_Aelius
@Soris
@Lysette

I have a full time career, a wife, and 2 daughters...2 hours a day play time is about what I have.
Here ya go, proof is in the pudding. I have a second account set up with 8 characters for a Craglorn writ farm which takes less than 30 minutes a day.
On my main account I do heavy flipping.

Screenshot from last week (was a good week as I was off from work and had more play time)
http://i.imgur.com/dzNiD3W.jpg - it shows 6 guilds because one of them changed their guild name midweek.

OK so this obviously doesn't include income from doing craglorn writs. 8 character are doing 4 writs daily (Clothing, Blacksmith, woodworking, and provisioning). 5 of those 8 characters are doing 6 writs (the previous plus alchemy and enchanting). The writ turn in rewards 664 gold so that is a grand total of 27,888 gold per day in writ turn ins. The reason I do Craglorn is the potential for crafting surveys to turn up Nirnhoned traits which sell for 20k and 4.9k (potent and fortified). HOWEVER, we are still pretty new into DB and I am not sure how this patch will affect those prices (already dropping).

On the weekend, I spend about 5 hours total farming a gold zone dungeon (I'm not naming it) on my stamplar. It's not one 5 hour session but 5 hours spread between Fri/Sat/Sun night. I use this dungeon to replenish mats for my craglorn writs (thru deconning). It's an amazing farm location.

Secondly, two weeks or so prior to DB launch I invested over a million gold buying up all the sanded nightwood I could find. I then listed stacks for 5.9k (sorry if I am the reason for the price hike) and posted them on my guild vendor in Belkarth.

To be good at anything in this game requires work. It took a lot of time to grind on my second account to be able to handle that many writs a day. However, I am now at the point where it only takes me 30 minutes a day to complete them. The other 90 minutes I spend playing in Cyrodiil making 1vX videos: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269835/makkir-sorc-pvp-video-the-lich-b-tch#latest
and making sales plugs where ever I can

PS- I have a Lich resto staff for sale for 399k in Rawlkha.

Lucius_Aelius · June 2016

Makkir wrote: »

@Lucius_Aelius
@Soris

I have a full time job, 2 hours a day play time is about what I have.
Here ya go, proof is in the pudding. I have a second account set up with 8 characters for a Craglorn writ farm which takes less than 30 minutes a day.
On my main account I do heavy flipping.

Screenshot from last week (was a good week as I was off from work and had more play time)
http://i.imgur.com/dzNiD3W.jpg

OK so this obviously doesn't include income from doing craglorn writs. 8 character are doing 4 writs daily (Clothing, Blacksmith, woodworking, and provisioning). 5 of those 8 characters are doing 6 writs (the previous plus alchemy and enchanting). The writ turn in rewards 664 gold so that is a grand total of 27,888 gold per day in writ turn ins. The reason I do Craglorn is the potential for crafting surveys to turn up Nirnhoned traits which sell for 20k and 4.9k (potent and fortified). HOWEVER, we are still pretty new into DB and I am not sure how this patch will affect those prices (already dropping).

On the weekend, I spend about 5 hours total farming a gold zone dungeon (I'm not naming it) on my stamplar. It's not one 5 hour session but 5 hours spread between Fri/Sat/Sun night. I use this dungeon to replenish mats for my craglorn writs (thru deconning). It's an amazing farm location.

Secondly, two weeks or so prior to DB launch I invested over a million gold buying up all the sanded nightwood I could find. I then listed stacks for 5.9k (sorry if I am the reason for the price hike) and posted them on my guild vendor in Belkarth.

To be good at anything in this game requires work. It took a lot of time to grind on my second account to be able to handle that many writs a day. However, I am now at the point where it only takes me 30 minutes a day to complete them. The other 90 minutes I spend playing in Cyrodiil making 1vX videos: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269835/makkir-sorc-pvp-video-the-lich-b-tch#latest

Okay, but even you have to admit that that's a tremendous amount of effort going into that which is far beyond the means of most people, I certainly couldn't afford to have a second account with Xbox Live just to make more money doing crafting writs. You've set yourself up to make as much money as you possibly can from everything you do, and it's impossible pretty much to make more (with the time you play) and still actually have fun playing the game, so comparing yourself to everyone else and saying they're doing it wrong by not playing like you is just ridiculous.

And honestly, it's kind of a *** move to buy low from people and then gouge other people by overcharging, it may be how capitalism works but capitalism is a fundamentally immoral system so that's no excuse for it being not a *** move. I wouldn't do that just on principle, as wouldn't many others. So fair enough I believe you and shouldn't have doubted you, but you're the exception rather than the rule, and we are most certainly not playing wrong or not doing the proper amount of work for what we want just because we aren't prepared to resort to the same extremes as you are.

And that's interesting about the crafting writs and Craglorn turning up Nirnhoned, I didn't know about that and it kind of makes me regret owning Orsinium.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

Yep, flipping is just wrong.
It screws the little guy, just like in the real world.

See,

And she's not even playing ESO...