Kammakazi wrote: »

1. Don't allocate CP
2. Don't use crafted armor sets

That might help. The CP and crafting systems are both really fun though. I don't think holding back is really a solution for what I would consider a major balance issue in game difficulty. Ideally we should be able to take advantage of the experience and items we earn in game, while still being challenged along the way.

If it were only the base game (your own faction) zones which played this way, then this wouldn't bother me as much. Top level zones with top level mobs should not be as easy as they are.

Craglorn is now a solo content, its so easy now, I am disappointed, it was a challenge for me to go solo there, now its boring as hell.

Cazic wrote: »

There are so many good things going for the solo PvE experience in ESO, but it so easily falls flat because it's just flat-out boring. You can become totally immersed in the world, lore, characters and stories, but there's nothing challenging to keep you awake for the ride. We have world bosses, dolmens, MSA, and maybe some other things which can be tough to solo; but these are all predictable, somewhat repetitive events. The actual exploration of Tamriel presents no challenge. The world needs to be as full of threat as it is full of beauty.

I'm playing a level 30 (alt) Templar, and have gone straight to all of the battle leveled DLC zones. Logically, going to a zone full of max level monsters while only level 30 should present some sort of challenge. Instead, I feel almost invincible unless I commit suicide, or go AFK at the wrong moment. Puncturing Sweep alone does enough damage and restores enough health for me to roam care free without worrying one bit about the hundreds of monsters around me. I want the areas I discover and quest objectives I complete to have a weight about them. When I finally reach the depths of that delve and slay the boss, it should feel like an accomplishment, not just another item checked off the to-do list. Why am I bothering to help people and clean up the evil in Tamriel when it's all so feeble and weak?

I understand why ZOS would lean towards things being easy for casual players. It just feels so imbalanced, though. The overall difficulty of mobs mixed with the battle leveling mechanic makes this portion of the game feel robotic. Hell, even something like Increasing mob damage and health (in these areas) by 50% would be nice. Just enough so I have to actually think about what I'm attacking.

Its the way battle scaling works, youll feel significantly weaker once you hit 50 and battle scaling no longer coddles you.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268764/scaling-gone-crazy/p1

John_1999 wrote: »

Craglorn is now a solo content, its so easy now, I am disappointed, it was a challenge for me to go solo there, now its boring as hell.

really so can you solo Hel Ra Citadel or Sanctum Ophidia?

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

There are so many good things going for the solo PvE experience in ESO, but it so easily falls flat because it's just flat-out boring. You can become totally immersed in the world, lore, characters and stories, but there's nothing challenging to keep you awake for the ride. We have world bosses, dolmens, MSA, and maybe some other things which can be tough to solo; but these are all predictable, somewhat repetitive events. The actual exploration of Tamriel presents no challenge. The world needs to be as full of threat as it is full of beauty.

I'm playing a level 30 (alt) Templar, and have gone straight to all of the battle leveled DLC zones. Logically, going to a zone full of max level monsters while only level 30 should present some sort of challenge. Instead, I feel almost invincible unless I commit suicide, or go AFK at the wrong moment. Puncturing Sweep alone does enough damage and restores enough health for me to roam care free without worrying one bit about the hundreds of monsters around me. I want the areas I discover and quest objectives I complete to have a weight about them. When I finally reach the depths of that delve and slay the boss, it should feel like an accomplishment, not just another item checked off the to-do list. Why am I bothering to help people and clean up the evil in Tamriel when it's all so feeble and weak?

I understand why ZOS would lean towards things being easy for casual players. It just feels so imbalanced, though. The overall difficulty of mobs mixed with the battle leveling mechanic makes this portion of the game feel robotic. Hell, even something like Increasing mob damage and health (in these areas) by 50% would be nice. Just enough so I have to actually think about what I'm attacking.

Its the way battle scaling works, youll feel significantly weaker once you hit 50 and battle scaling no longer coddles you.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268764/scaling-gone-crazy/p1

Wow. I was wondering why my low level alt was feeling so much more powerful than my max level main.

I didn't realise the scaling was that messed up. Its just to the post now where your character level doesn't make in relation to the mobs you're fighting. Why even have levels at all?

Cazic wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

There are so many good things going for the solo PvE experience in ESO, but it so easily falls flat because it's just flat-out boring. You can become totally immersed in the world, lore, characters and stories, but there's nothing challenging to keep you awake for the ride. We have world bosses, dolmens, MSA, and maybe some other things which can be tough to solo; but these are all predictable, somewhat repetitive events. The actual exploration of Tamriel presents no challenge. The world needs to be as full of threat as it is full of beauty.

I'm playing a level 30 (alt) Templar, and have gone straight to all of the battle leveled DLC zones. Logically, going to a zone full of max level monsters while only level 30 should present some sort of challenge. Instead, I feel almost invincible unless I commit suicide, or go AFK at the wrong moment. Puncturing Sweep alone does enough damage and restores enough health for me to roam care free without worrying one bit about the hundreds of monsters around me. I want the areas I discover and quest objectives I complete to have a weight about them. When I finally reach the depths of that delve and slay the boss, it should feel like an accomplishment, not just another item checked off the to-do list. Why am I bothering to help people and clean up the evil in Tamriel when it's all so feeble and weak?

I understand why ZOS would lean towards things being easy for casual players. It just feels so imbalanced, though. The overall difficulty of mobs mixed with the battle leveling mechanic makes this portion of the game feel robotic. Hell, even something like Increasing mob damage and health (in these areas) by 50% would be nice. Just enough so I have to actually think about what I'm attacking.

Its the way battle scaling works, youll feel significantly weaker once you hit 50 and battle scaling no longer coddles you.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268764/scaling-gone-crazy/p1

Wow. I was wondering why my low level alt was feeling so much more powerful than my max level main.

I didn't realise the scaling was that messed up. Its just to the post now where your character level doesn't make in relation to the mobs you're fighting. Why even have levels at all?

So lowbies can feel powerful and get hooked on the game early on, I guess... This really is an absurd situation.

Cazic wrote: »

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

Personally, I doubt that PVE is an unbalanced as some seem to think it is.

I'm relatively new (less than 6 months back into the game) and my 1st toon had all kinds of problems, all the way thru to 50. Then, I started getting CP (currently under 300) and allocating them down to the next 2 toons and then the "easy" that was talked about in the OP came thru. My 1st toon was also my blacksmith so the toons after got sets with add tanking/DPS/sustain also.

Zos can not balance PVE to 300 CP or else just about ALL leveling content becomes group play for the starter toon that has no CP. I am painfully aware of what the difficulty was at launch, subbed for 1 month then, and then left for almost a year and a half. Went back to SWG, a game that was 10 years+ old with most problems worked out. In fact, I ran my own EMU server and made some changes even from live and what the EMU coders has made. Leveling content is just that, leveling content. Try some of the end game PVE and leave leveling content to levelers.

Like above, if you want more difficulty, wear white/green gear, no sets, and don't put in a CP at all. That's how the new toon levels.

Leave leveling content to levelers... well, what about the brand new dark brotherhood content? I dont necessarily need to use that content to level, but I do want to enjoy it. The questing is just not enjoyable when the combat isn't at all challenging.

I appreciate everyone's suggestions regarding using weaker gear or not using CP, but I cannot consider that an actual solution to the core issue here. Its a work around at best. I believe there is a better way. If I don't allocate CP, then I'm at a huge disadvantage n PvP.

They should really scrap the battle leveling / scaling system.

As stated, I've been back some 3-4 months , subbed ESO+, and haven't even started thieves guild and only about 1/3 of the way thru Wrothgar. And that was due to needing V16 on the 1 toon I took up and ended up out of Cad's gold with V15. And doing Wrothgar that way, I hadn't noticed anything easier than Silver/Gold coming up with the CP I had gotten there and used as I got them.

Doing content in order will probably take care of most of your problems altho I applaud ZOS for putting in battle leveling to allow lower level players to try the new content. I'm probably a little old-school MMO player (played Galaxies since 03) so I tend to take the game as developed and try to do content in the order they installed to get the most out of it. (crafting mats, drops, etc)

Having had that year of experience of running my own MMO server, I know very well that developers have to set up a game for everyone that plays, noob to 10 year vet to keep player retention. And I believe that Zos has done a decent job of that with the end game raids, single player delves, PVP areas, etc.

That suggestion of wear white, don't allocate points, is more of a /sarcasm kind of deal as no1 is going to do that anyway. But players with 501 CP still need to realize that this game still attraks new players and they need to be able to progress as well. No dev house can set up a MMO just for people at max level, with all the great items, drops, min/maxed builds, etc for every bit of content in the game and expect any new player to stay long enough to get there.

As far as development around battle leveling, I just can't comment as I've not taken advantage of it doing content in order and staying out of PVP until I L2P and get the gear/leveling required. It's just not all that fun to me to be fodder. After all, I don't like toon death in MMOs and that's probably leftovers from 2003 SWG where I had a jedi with perma-death hanging over my head. I'm sure I'll hit that fodder complex when I do get all my crafters leveled and take my PVE builds into PVP anyway. But, ZOS may have over compensated due to the fact that lower level players are not considered to have the best rotations, specials, builds, gear so they might have tried to let them do the content without all the L2P that comes with getting a toon to CP501.

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

Personally, I doubt that PVE is an unbalanced as some seem to think it is.

I'm relatively new (less than 6 months back into the game) and my 1st toon had all kinds of problems, all the way thru to 50. Then, I started getting CP (currently under 300) and allocating them down to the next 2 toons and then the "easy" that was talked about in the OP came thru. My 1st toon was also my blacksmith so the toons after got sets with add tanking/DPS/sustain also.

Zos can not balance PVE to 300 CP or else just about ALL leveling content becomes group play for the starter toon that has no CP. I am painfully aware of what the difficulty was at launch, subbed for 1 month then, and then left for almost a year and a half. Went back to SWG, a game that was 10 years+ old with most problems worked out. In fact, I ran my own EMU server and made some changes even from live and what the EMU coders has made. Leveling content is just that, leveling content. Try some of the end game PVE and leave leveling content to levelers.

Like above, if you want more difficulty, wear white/green gear, no sets, and don't put in a CP at all. That's how the new toon levels.

Leave leveling content to levelers... well, what about the brand new dark brotherhood content? I dont necessarily need to use that content to level, but I do want to enjoy it. The questing is just not enjoyable when the combat isn't at all challenging.

I appreciate everyone's suggestions regarding using weaker gear or not using CP, but I cannot consider that an actual solution to the core issue here. Its a work around at best. I believe there is a better way. If I don't allocate CP, then I'm at a huge disadvantage n PvP.

They should really scrap the battle leveling / scaling system.

As stated, I've been back some 3-4 months , subbed ESO+, and haven't even started thieves guild and only about 1/3 of the way thru Wrothgar. And that was due to needing V16 on the 1 toon I took up and ended up out of Cad's gold with V15. And doing Wrothgar that way, I hadn't noticed anything easier than Silver/Gold coming up with the CP I had gotten there and used as I got them.

Doing content in order will probably take care of most of your problems altho I applaud ZOS for putting in battle leveling to allow lower level players to try the new content. I'm probably a little old-school MMO player (played Galaxies since 03) so I tend to take the game as developed and try to do content in the order they installed to get the most out of it. (crafting mats, drops, etc)

Having had that year of experience of running my own MMO server, I know very well that developers have to set up a game for everyone that plays, noob to 10 year vet to keep player retention. And I believe that Zos has done a decent job of that with the end game raids, single player delves, PVP areas, etc.

That suggestion of wear white, don't allocate points, is more of a /scarcasm kind of deal as no1 is going to do that anyway. But players with 501 CP still need to realize that this game still attraks new players and they need to be able to progress as well. No dev house can set up a MMO just for people at max level, with all the great items, drops, min/maxed builds, etc for every bit of content in the game and expect any new player to stay long enough to get there.

As far as development around battle leveling, I just can't comment as I've not taken advantage of it doing content in order and staying out of PVP until I L2P and get the gear/leveling required. It's just not all that fun to me to be fodder. After all, I don't like toon death in MMOs and that's probably leftovers from 2003 SWG where I had a jedi with perma-death hanging over my head. I'm sure I'll hit that fodder complex when I do get all my crafters leveled and take my PVE builds into PVP anyway. But, ZOS may have over compensated due to the fact that lower level players are not considered to have the best rotations, specials, builds, gear so they might have tried to let them do the content without all the L2P that comes with getting a toon to CP501.

Thanks for the insight. I'm on board with and understand most of what you're saying.

I'm an old school mmo player as well, started with EQ way back when. Obviously the genre has evolved a lot so I wouldn't suggest that ESO should back track to any large degree.

Doing content in order makes sense. But where in coming from is that if I want to travel to a high level zine as a low level toon for a chalkenge, one would reasonably assume that you could do that. Somehow in ESO the opposite actually occurs.

SirAndy wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

1. Don't allocate CP
2. Don't use crafted armor sets

- Play naked

You know, in WoW playing naked is actually a challenge some people have done. Also look up information on the "ironman challenge."

Basically what it was was using gear that provided no stats only (well armor was provided, but no other stats). In wow they are referred to as grey and white items. I think it'd probably have to be restricted to only using low level white unenchanted gear in this game.

Cazic wrote: »

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

Cazic wrote: »

Esquire1980g_ESO wrote: »

Personally, I doubt that PVE is an unbalanced as some seem to think it is.

I'm relatively new (less than 6 months back into the game) and my 1st toon had all kinds of problems, all the way thru to 50. Then, I started getting CP (currently under 300) and allocating them down to the next 2 toons and then the "easy" that was talked about in the OP came thru. My 1st toon was also my blacksmith so the toons after got sets with add tanking/DPS/sustain also.

Zos can not balance PVE to 300 CP or else just about ALL leveling content becomes group play for the starter toon that has no CP. I am painfully aware of what the difficulty was at launch, subbed for 1 month then, and then left for almost a year and a half. Went back to SWG, a game that was 10 years+ old with most problems worked out. In fact, I ran my own EMU server and made some changes even from live and what the EMU coders has made. Leveling content is just that, leveling content. Try some of the end game PVE and leave leveling content to levelers.

Like above, if you want more difficulty, wear white/green gear, no sets, and don't put in a CP at all. That's how the new toon levels.

Leave leveling content to levelers... well, what about the brand new dark brotherhood content? I dont necessarily need to use that content to level, but I do want to enjoy it. The questing is just not enjoyable when the combat isn't at all challenging.

I appreciate everyone's suggestions regarding using weaker gear or not using CP, but I cannot consider that an actual solution to the core issue here. Its a work around at best. I believe there is a better way. If I don't allocate CP, then I'm at a huge disadvantage n PvP.

They should really scrap the battle leveling / scaling system.

As stated, I've been back some 3-4 months , subbed ESO+, and haven't even started thieves guild and only about 1/3 of the way thru Wrothgar. And that was due to needing V16 on the 1 toon I took up and ended up out of Cad's gold with V15. And doing Wrothgar that way, I hadn't noticed anything easier than Silver/Gold coming up with the CP I had gotten there and used as I got them.

Doing content in order will probably take care of most of your problems altho I applaud ZOS for putting in battle leveling to allow lower level players to try the new content. I'm probably a little old-school MMO player (played Galaxies since 03) so I tend to take the game as developed and try to do content in the order they installed to get the most out of it. (crafting mats, drops, etc)

Having had that year of experience of running my own MMO server, I know very well that developers have to set up a game for everyone that plays, noob to 10 year vet to keep player retention. And I believe that Zos has done a decent job of that with the end game raids, single player delves, PVP areas, etc.

That suggestion of wear white, don't allocate points, is more of a /scarcasm kind of deal as no1 is going to do that anyway. But players with 501 CP still need to realize that this game still attraks new players and they need to be able to progress as well. No dev house can set up a MMO just for people at max level, with all the great items, drops, min/maxed builds, etc for every bit of content in the game and expect any new player to stay long enough to get there.

As far as development around battle leveling, I just can't comment as I've not taken advantage of it doing content in order and staying out of PVP until I L2P and get the gear/leveling required. It's just not all that fun to me to be fodder. After all, I don't like toon death in MMOs and that's probably leftovers from 2003 SWG where I had a jedi with perma-death hanging over my head. I'm sure I'll hit that fodder complex when I do get all my crafters leveled and take my PVE builds into PVP anyway. But, ZOS may have over compensated due to the fact that lower level players are not considered to have the best rotations, specials, builds, gear so they might have tried to let them do the content without all the L2P that comes with getting a toon to CP501.

Thanks for the insight. I'm on board with and understand most of what you're saying.

I'm an old school mmo player as well, started with EQ way back when. Obviously the genre has evolved a lot so I wouldn't suggest that ESO should back track to any large degree.

Doing content in order makes sense. But where in coming from is that if I want to travel to a high level zine as a low level toon for a chalkenge, one would reasonably assume that you could do that. Somehow in ESO the opposite actually occurs.

And that is probably from the deal that you have already did your time in the barrel with L2P. Along with the battle leveling, your probably in a place where you excel way over what the starter noob would get out of the experience of battle leveling.

The ONLY thing I can find, personally, that ZOS may have messed up on in design is the mitigation of armors. To me, from what I've seen so far, armor mitigation should be around 25% mitigation cap for light, around 50% for med, and at least 80% for Heavy. That would take care of all these threads I've read today of 1-shot kills in PVP, allow the light wearers to have the requirement of kiting to stay alive (glass cannons) and the tank to be, uhhh......, a tank. STO fell into this DPS trap that ZOS seems intent to jump into and that killed PVP over there. In STO, 1-shot is called "Vape-ing" and PVP ended up whoever hits the button 1st, wins. After that, a dev came to their forums and made the statement of "we could take PVP out of the game and no1 would even notice". If ZOS isn't careful with all this power creep and no way to offset the damage it causes, this game could end up the same exact way.

So I've got at least 1 gripe, myself.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

This game has some of the most boring PvE and it's due to how easy it is. I really wish ZOS would produce challenging content for us. Challenging content is fun! The content is ESO is so easy that it detours me from even doing PvE... which sucks because I really do want to enjoy the content, but without ever feeling challenged how can I?

Exactly my thoughts and feelings. I haven't finished TG content for this reason. I was stoked to do the DB quests but as soon as I started I was bored as hell.

ZOS wants the new content to be accessible to all (new) players... and this means it becomes completely mundane for the experienced players. That sucks.

We need difficulty modes.

MasterSpatula wrote: »

The difficulty of leveling content has to be set for people with no CP, or else new players are essentially locked out. It also has to trend a little towards the easier because it's training content for players with few skillpoints and no practical knowledge of their class.

As for the DLC, battle scaling makes you kind of OP, which has been mentioned already.

The idea behind getting to use your accounts CP before 50 was that you can level alts more quickly. It's a bonus, not a penalty, so use it to blast through to 50 and get started with the content that's actually aimed at you. But please, let's not screw over new players by aiming the newbie content at experienced players.

Yeah.. they battle scaled the DLC so that more people would buy it. Of course less people would pay for content that requires them to work towards being able to access.

Unfortunately this means that the content is beyond boring and doesn't make sense for experienced players.

Its like an intro promotion for cable TV or internet service.

They really need to figure out a way to better balance this system. As mentioned above I think having difficulty modes would keep everyone happy.