Was it really necessary to nerf Dark Stalker? Update it is a bug

LegacyDM · June 2016

Hridh wrote: »

Is it working as intended ? Nerf or bug to Dark Stalker?

Ajax_22 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Hurika wrote: »

Dark Stalker used to remove sneak speed penalty. It now only removes 50% of the sneak speed penalty leaving you between full on slow sneak and normal speed.

My guess is it had to do with concealed weapon which gives +25% movement speed while stealthed. I believe with CW + DS you actually moved fairly quickly (almost as fast as Major Exp all while stealthed) in stealth and toss in Double Take and you'd really move quite fast.

With some changes to "try" (you decide) to make vamp more attractive I'd guess they were worried about a bunch of magicka NB vamps running around in stealth at a faster than sprint speed (no stealth penalty, 25% speed bonus from CW, 30% speed bonus from DT).

If so a better fix would have been to make CW remove 25% sneak penalty. So it won't bump you over 100% speed if you had DS also.

If they keep this change I'd really like to see the vamp passive or a clone of it moved to Thieves Guild, DB, NB Passives, or Werewolves (or any combo of). As a stamina NB it's the sole reason I run vamp.

The only alternative now is to run 5pc armor that negates the speed penalty at the expense of other bonuses.

Again that's all just my guess/speculation.

Dark Stalker actually isn't very useful on a Magic NB. Cloak doesn't give you a move speed penalty when you use it, and Magic NBs use cloak more often then they sneak. A Magic NB can use Rapids, and Concealed Weapon + Cloak to scan an entire factions sewer area in about five minutes all while never being seen or going below half magic.

Completely disagree. Been playing magicka nb since launch and Makes a huge difference in character responsiveness.

LegacyDM · June 2016

Hurika wrote: »

Dark Stalker used to remove sneak speed penalty. It now only removes 50% of the sneak speed penalty leaving you between full on slow sneak and normal speed.

This is why I believe it was intentional. The tool tip changed to match exactly what this guy is saying.

I don't even use concealed weapon so I need to be penalized for a skill I don't use?

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · June 2016

Hridh wrote: »

Is it working as intended ? Nerf or bug to Dark Stalker?

In the patch notes they wrote that the tooltip of dark stalker were corrected to show how it actually works......

But we all know that dark stalker gave the same bonus as night silence set and now it is far slower than the 2 set bonuses that give stealth speed.

LegacyDM · June 2016

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Hridh wrote: »

Is it working as intended ? Nerf or bug to Dark Stalker?

In the patch notes they wrote that the tooltip of dark stalker were corrected to show how it actually works......

But we all know that dark stalker gave the same bonus as night silence set and now it is far slower than the 2 set bonuses that give stealth speed.

your right. This is a game breaker for me and many others.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2016

LegacyDM wrote: »

If this was intentional. Your only hurting yourself ZOS. Why would I bother paying for a vamp upgrade in the crown store if I am being nerfed. Lol.

I like the option of playing as a vampire, but I hate thinking of it as an 'upgrade'.

Hibbou · June 2016

I just made a test (vamp 4 stage) with a WW guy, we went exactly the same speed

edit: I did the test again, it goes "slightly" faster, but not enough for extra fire damage in my opinion

so, I am going to cure vampirism

Birdovic · June 2016

Argh nooo...
I was happy I could finally become a vampire again, but now this..?

Everything I was happy for in this DLC is overshadowed by the overwhelming amount of new bugs/ new "features" / new "balancing" / Ability changes (to the worse ofc) / to old bugs still present.

But I think thats easy, I mean, there was not much I could look forward to, as a mainly magicka player <.<

Hurika · June 2016

If the devs come back and this was actually intended can we get the change reverted since this is being discussed? This was one of the more desirable perks of being a vamp on a stam class. For me it was the ONLY reason to be a vamp otherwise the penalties outweigh the benefit - at least to me.

I've never heard anyone complain DS was OP and needed changed or anyone asking for it to be changed at all. And again, at least put the passive in other locations if this is the intent to be 50% to allow more diversity in builds.

Brrrofski · June 2016

They haven't even confirmed this was intended or not.

Really hope it's not.

Zorgon_The_Revenged · June 2016

Was working fine when I reinfected my old vamp character on the pts. I'll have to go back onto the pts to double check.

Edit:No, seems to be fine on pts and live for me. I know there was apparently a bug to all standard movement speed, a very slight one, but that was a long running one from way before DB update.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · June 2016

We’ve identified a bug with Dark Stalker where the movement speed penalty reduction while crouching is 50%, when it should be 100%. This will be fixed in an upcoming incremental patch, and the tooltip will be changed to say "Ignores the Movement Speed penalty while in Crouch."

phreatophile · June 2016

If the tooltip was changed to 50%, which it was, since it is being changed back, how is this a bug rather than a bad decision being walked back?

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We’ve identified a bug with Dark Stalker where the movement speed penalty reduction while crouching is 50%, when it should be 100%. This will be fixed in an upcoming incremental patch, and the tooltip will be changed to say "Ignores the Movement Speed penalty while in Crouch."

phreatophile wrote: »

If the tooltip was changed to 50%, which it was, since it is being changed back, how is this a bug rather than a bad decision being walked back?

This is why i have trust issue's with Zos. They are alway's nerfing abilities under the table and when they get caught they call it a bug...

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · June 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We’ve identified a bug with Dark Stalker where the movement speed penalty reduction while crouching is 50%, when it should be 100%. This will be fixed in an upcoming incremental patch, and the tooltip will be changed to say "Ignores the Movement Speed penalty while in Crouch."

OMG! Thank you!

Hurika · June 2016

Well looks like I'll keep that pale angry goth look after all.

Thanks for responding and planning to address it.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · June 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

show previous quotes

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We’ve identified a bug with Dark Stalker where the movement speed penalty reduction while crouching is 50%, when it should be 100%. This will be fixed in an upcoming incremental patch, and the tooltip will be changed to say "Ignores the Movement Speed penalty while in Crouch."

show previous quotes

phreatophile wrote: »

If the tooltip was changed to 50%, which it was, since it is being changed back, how is this a bug rather than a bad decision being walked back?

This is why i have trust issue's with Zos. They are alway's nerfing abilities under the table and when they get caught they call it a bug...

god, just dont question it, companies will never admit they were wrong, just accept they are trying to cover it up that way.

to be honest, i trust companies that admit they were wrong, than ones that try to cover *** up like this, but since its basically 'public relations prime directive number one' to never admit you were wrong, you have to deal with it

DocFrost72 · June 2016

Thank you Jessica for the research and response on that! Looking forward to a fix

Haydenmango · June 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We’ve identified a bug with Dark Stalker where the movement speed penalty reduction while crouching is 50%, when it should be 100%. This will be fixed in an upcoming incremental patch, and the tooltip will be changed to say "Ignores the Movement Speed penalty while in Crouch."

Wow, this is a pleasant surprise! Thanks for the update.

Eejit1331 · June 2016

Does dark stalker stack with the night silence set?

kadar · June 2016

acw37162 wrote: »

They do seem feather intent on slowing players down and snaring the heck out of them.

It's one of the more annoying and quite frankly disappointing aspects of the last few patches.

Yeah, I really hate this trend.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We’ve identified a bug with Dark Stalker where the movement speed penalty reduction while crouching is 50%, when it should be 100%. This will be fixed in an upcoming incremental patch, and the tooltip will be changed to say "Ignores the Movement Speed penalty while in Crouch."

Yay! Thank you!

LegacyDM · June 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

show previous quotes

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We’ve identified a bug with Dark Stalker where the movement speed penalty reduction while crouching is 50%, when it should be 100%. This will be fixed in an upcoming incremental patch, and the tooltip will be changed to say "Ignores the Movement Speed penalty while in Crouch."

show previous quotes

phreatophile wrote: »

If the tooltip was changed to 50%, which it was, since it is being changed back, how is this a bug rather than a bad decision being walked back?

This is why i have trust issue's with Zos. They are alway's nerfing abilities under the table and when they get caught they call it a bug...

It does seem odd. How does a tooltip change that states 50% penalty reduction in crouch, amount to being a bug? Someone intentionally changed the tooltip. But whatever, thanks to Zos for correcting.

DocFrost72 · June 2016

LegacyDM wrote: »

show previous quotes

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We’ve identified a bug with Dark Stalker where the movement speed penalty reduction while crouching is 50%, when it should be 100%. This will be fixed in an upcoming incremental patch, and the tooltip will be changed to say "Ignores the Movement Speed penalty while in Crouch."

phreatophile wrote: »

If the tooltip was changed to 50%, which it was, since it is being changed back, how is this a bug rather than a bad decision being walked back?

This is why i have trust issue's with Zos. They are alway's nerfing abilities under the table and when they get caught they call it a bug...

It does seem odd. How does a tooltip change that states 50% penalty reduction in crouch, amount to being a bug? Someone intentionally changed the tooltip. But whatever, thanks to Zos for correcting.

My guess is they meant to change the language of the passive, but ended up fudging it up on human error.

Makes no sense to ninja nerf stuff, they are a grown up company. Besides, they handled the sorc rage this update, whats a few vamps? No incentive not to be open, at least from my point of view.

Hurika · June 2016

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Does dark stalker stack with the night silence set?

You won't move any faster with both since they both should "remove the speed penalty". One will remove the penalty and the other won't do anything since there's no penalty to remove. Things that increase speed by x% will stack with them though.

squshy7 · June 2016

phreatophile wrote: »

If the tooltip was changed to 50%, which it was, since it is being changed back, how is this a bug rather than a bad decision being walked back?

Because in a lot of cases, the numbers in tool tips are dynamic text. They reflect the game's programmed/output value. YMMV, but generally, the only hard written numbers are the ones pertaining to Major/Minor buffs/debuffs. And even then, it's likely they are dynamic as well, but the values never change.

This practice makes it easier on ZoS, so that they don't have to find every instance of a number in a tooltip when changing something in the core game.

MoeCoastie · June 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We’ve identified a bug with Dark Stalker where the movement speed penalty reduction while crouching is 50%, when it should be 100%. This will be fixed in an upcoming incremental patch, and the tooltip will be changed to say "Ignores the Movement Speed penalty while in Crouch."

after reading the ambush fix...this makes me happy again

ScruffyWhiskers · June 2016

So not fixed in today's patch I take it?

Gilvoth · June 2016

this is why i quit a few months ago.
i hate this,
Sneak speed is everything to me and my playstyle and my class. remove my sneak speeds and you remove me from eso.

Wycks · June 2016

hobicabobjob · June 2016

I eagerly awaited 2.4.6, but did not see this fix in the patch notes. When will this be fixed?

Vythri · June 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We’ve identified a bug with Dark Stalker where the movement speed penalty reduction while crouching is 50%, when it should be 100%. This will be fixed in an upcoming incremental patch, and the tooltip will be changed to say "Ignores the Movement Speed penalty while in Crouch."

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

So, any ETA on which incremental patch is getting this fix? I only picked up Vamp for this passive mainly.