Bug: BoP Trial sets in new traits dropping BoE.
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STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Septimus_Magna wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »Everything should be BoE, no exceptions. There's not a single compelling reason to make gear BoP.
How about: having to actually complete that difficult content?
The gear is there as a reward for being a skilled player capable of overcoming difficult feats - not for picking up flowers all day & having a crap ton of gold.
Some players simply dont have the time/skill to run vMA 50 times to get the sharpened fire staff.
Picking rare flowers worth 300g each doesnt compare to gear that sells for 100k a piece.
Players that get the rare items will become richer because they dont have to buy it and can sell what they dont use.
And what exactly is wrong with that some people dont have the time/skill to clear vMSA?
If you can't do it, train, get better - don't complain about players who put in more effort & demand to get the same things they do. That's insulting towards the players who put in all that time to beat the challenges.
There's no room for communism in video games.
Imo what is insulting is the "my fun is better than your fun and so i deserve better rewards"
If making everything BOE is communism, is locking bis content behind puzZles designed to look like combat a military dictatorship?
No, it's more like a common, healthy society.
I don't go around demanding Olympic gold medals, Ferraris & Lamorghinis because I did 100 push ups in the backyard.
No one is DEMANDING any of those things. No one is DEMANDING to be put on a leaderboard for VMOL or whatever as if they accomplushed the achievement.
The are adking for the TION to purchase them from SOMEONE WHO DID "EARN" IT if they can reach an agreement.
They are adking that other types of fun than "solving puzxles that look like combat" also be recognized and fairly treated.
But mostly they are asking for those WHO DID "EARN" IT be given another way to benefitvfrom it, esp given the vsgaries of RNG modelling.
I'm going to pass on loot by Bernie Sanders. IMO, if you want endgame rewards, go earn them.
Ok likely this is just trolling at me but asking for the people with x to be allowed to sell x to those with resource y is not "communism" or "democratic socialism" but acually outright capitalism.
Not issuing judgement on either of these as economic models or their frequent misuse as political systems... but just saying it seems there may be confusion afoot.
I didn't use either of those terms. I simply think that making all gear trivial to obtain matches up with my view of that candidate.
I wont get into your choice to involve current ongoing real world political views into this thread.
But, no one is saying it should be trivial just marketable for whateven value those fortunate enough to obtain it considers reasonable.
There seems to be a serious undercurrent of disparaging or dismissing non-puzxle-solving accomplishments like the market side of thevgsme.
I admit, i rarely do more thsn dabble in that arena, but i dont dismiss those who do anymore thsn i would those eho take the time to solve vmol or vmsa or pac man.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
BucFanJKE✭✭✭The only arguments I see for PVE sets staying BoP are to reward those competitive PVEers and to make PVP people run the content. Guess what. If it's BoE YOU DON"T HAVE TO SELL IT. Having things BoE is helpful to everyone. Here is why:
1. RNG is a pain in the butt. The people that farm things like spell power cure will have to run the dungeon many many times to get the traits they want and all the pieces. This will result in those same people farming getting duplicates and unwanted pieces. If it's BoE they can choose to deconstruct it (which is what I assume they do now) or sell it to the highest bidder.
2. This gives people who do the PVE content more rewards for their efforts. PVP people can sell the BoE PVP gear they get from rewards, this change only gives PVE players the same outlet for gold.
3. The PVP people who only want to do PVP can buy PVE gear without having to do what they don't like about the game.
This encourages more interaction. This encourages people who want to make money to run the content. This allows the guy who has 10 spell power cure boots in divines but still hasn't gotten his legs in divines to sell those extra pieces he doesn't want or need instead of deconstructing or taking up inventory space. This change would only allow people to do what they want in the game and still get the gear they want. What is so wrong with that?3 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Septimus_Magna wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »Everything should be BoE, no exceptions. There's not a single compelling reason to make gear BoP.
How about: having to actually complete that difficult content?
The gear is there as a reward for being a skilled player capable of overcoming difficult feats - not for picking up flowers all day & having a crap ton of gold.
Some players simply dont have the time/skill to run vMA 50 times to get the sharpened fire staff.
Picking rare flowers worth 300g each doesnt compare to gear that sells for 100k a piece.
Players that get the rare items will become richer because they dont have to buy it and can sell what they dont use.
And what exactly is wrong with that some people dont have the time/skill to clear vMSA?
If you can't do it, train, get better - don't complain about players who put in more effort & demand to get the same things they do. That's insulting towards the players who put in all that time to beat the challenges.
There's no room for communism in video games.
Imo what is insulting is the "my fun is better than your fun and so i deserve better rewards"
If making everything BOE is communism, is locking bis content behind puzZles designed to look like combat a military dictatorship?
No, it's more like a common, healthy society.
I don't go around demanding Olympic gold medals, Ferraris & Lamorghinis because I did 100 push ups in the backyard.
No one is DEMANDING any of those things. No one is DEMANDING to be put on a leaderboard for VMOL or whatever as if they accomplushed the achievement.
The are adking for the TION to purchase them from SOMEONE WHO DID "EARN" IT if they can reach an agreement.
They are adking that other types of fun than "solving puzxles that look like combat" also be recognized and fairly treated.
But mostly they are asking for those WHO DID "EARN" IT be given another way to benefitvfrom it, esp given the vsgaries of RNG modelling.
I'm going to pass on loot by Bernie Sanders. IMO, if you want endgame rewards, go earn them.
Ok likely this is just trolling at me but asking for the people with x to be allowed to sell x to those with resource y is not "communism" or "democratic socialism" but acually outright capitalism.
Not issuing judgement on either of these as economic models or their frequent misuse as political systems... but just saying it seems there may be confusion afoot.
I didn't use either of those terms. I simply think that making all gear trivial to obtain matches up with my view of that candidate.
I wont get into your choice to involve current ongoing real world political views into this thread.
But, no one is saying it should be trivial just marketable for whateven value those fortunate enough to obtain it considers reasonable.
There seems to be a serious undercurrent of disparaging or dismissing non-puzxle-solving accomplishments like the market side of thevgsme.
I admit, i rarely do more thsn dabble in that arena, but i dont dismiss those who do anymore thsn i would those eho take the time to solve vmol or vmsa or pac man.
Marketing the gear trivializes obtaining it. With the change to drop rates, the market will be flooded in two weeks. The jewelry will maintain a decent price for a while, but the armor pieces will be under 1k gold a piece in a week.Edited by timidobserver on June 2, 2016 2:45PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@bucfanJKE
The issue then becomes those who have the ability or the time to complete the content have the ability to set the price.
Supply and demand rules apply obviously, so when you have a forced scarcity of supply with a pretty universal demand, things get out of control fast.
So free market right? If you don't like the price, then just run the content yourself and get the gear, but herein lies the problem, if you wanted to or were able to run the content you would, right?
So being able to purchase gear from the bleeding edge type people who honestly are not going to farm this for gold, what is even a gold sink in this game?
No, the way they get around this issue is the same way that every other free to play MMO has done it.
You put an item in the cash shop or for in game currency that allows you to unbind on piece of equipment.
Make it cost like 500k or something, then you get an actual gold sink in the game and you have the ability to trade equipment from bleeding edge players to lesser skilled players, without the price fixing you would get in a free market.Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.0 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So out of curiosity... To those who support BoP and earning things, rather than buying them (e.g. from Dungeons, trials, etc.)... Do you feel as though the relatively-new vendor in Cyrodiil (the one that comes weekends only) is unhealthy for the game, as perhaps it may deter people from doing the dungeons? They could just hoard AP and or gold, and just purchase whatever they like?
I'm curious about this, because it applies to MoL things being BoE rather than BoP. In both situations, things could be purchased from a vendor of sorts (one being a NPC and the other a fellow player). In both situations, items could be purchased, and thus meaning the player wouldn't have to play the content to obtain it. In both situations, people could get whatever they want and make a profit if they so choose (except the monster sets as those are BoP and can't be resold or traded).0 -
BucFanJKE✭✭✭@bucfanJKE
The issue then becomes those who have the ability or the time to complete the content have the ability to set the price.
Supply and demand rules apply obviously, so when you have a forced scarcity of supply with a pretty universal demand, things get out of control fast.
So free market right? If you don't like the price, then just run the content yourself and get the gear, but herein lies the problem, if you wanted to or were able to run the content you would, right?
So being able to purchase gear from the bleeding edge type people who honestly are not going to farm this for gold, what is even a gold sink in this game?
No, the way they get around this issue is the same way that every other free to play MMO has done it.
You put an item in the cash shop or for in game currency that allows you to unbind on piece of equipment.
Make it cost like 500k or something, then you get an actual gold sink in the game and you have the ability to trade equipment from bleeding edge players to lesser skilled players, without the price fixing you would get in a free market.
@yodased
The lich set isn't easy to get right? It's BoE right? The people that want to farm dolmens to get the gear are doing it. They are selling the pieces for high dollar gold prices. I don't know that I have ever seen a V16/C160 that can't solo a cyrodil dolmen. People can do the content, they just don't want to. I personally don't want to spend hours/days/weeks farming dolmens. Some people do. They get rewarded with drops and sell those for gold. The people like me who would rather do something else do just that, and buy from those who set the market price because they have the gear. I don't see much difference. Sure the content is a little harder, but it's the same concept. It's doing the same thing constantly to get drops.Edited by BucFanJKE on June 2, 2016 2:56PM1 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
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AA was certainly hard back in the day. It's easy now that you know mechanics and large groups of people are up to speed in it, but tonnnnns of groups attempted AA and failed back in the day. The number of groups running it did so because there was generalized incentive to run it because of the drops you could sell, or acquire without forking over all your gold.
I don't understand your argument, I'm talking specifically about sets from trials not PvP. You know for the most part to build a fully minmaxed character, everything is BoE for PvE right? Even the undaunted sets now.
Only 1 person will be using morag tong since it applies for your whole groupSeptimus_Magna wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »Everything should be BoE, no exceptions. There's not a single compelling reason to make gear BoP.
How about: having to actually complete that difficult content?
The gear is there as a reward for being a skilled player capable of overcoming difficult feats - not for picking up flowers all day & having a crap ton of gold.
Some players simply dont have the time/skill to run vMA 50 times to get the sharpened fire staff.
Picking rare flowers worth 300g each doesnt compare to gear that sells for 100k a piece.
Players that get the rare items will become richer because they dont have to buy it and can sell what they dont use.
And what exactly is wrong with that some people dont have the time/skill to clear vMSA?
If you can't do it, train, get better - don't complain about players who put in more effort & demand to get the same things they do. That's insulting towards the players who put in all that time to beat the challenges RNG.
There's no room for communism in video games.
I fixed it for you. If there were a token system in place and I knew after X runs I'd get what I needed that would be one thing, but asking people to slog through the same content over and over and over to continually get bad traits and the wrong gear is moronic. That's not a challenge, that's a grind, in content many despise but are forced to run to remain BiS. Again, how many pve'ers are going to be BUYING sets like morag tong? How many pve'ers complained about having to spend time in pvp to get prox det, and now you can get it in a day? I'm still farming undaunted on my new alt because that was never nerfed like the alliance war skill line was. Seems lobsided to me.
I liked how long alliance war took, but the average AP was too low so they lowered it, then realised everyone had prox det and nerfed it, so we dont even need to do PvP now.
Asking people to do the same content for the right trait is what causes replayability, if PvE loses that, then it's dead. PvE content gets worn out very quickly, for most its one and done content, for others its gear and done and for the 1% it's scores, gear and completion.
The point is that some of the pvp gear sets will again be BiS for builds and they will be purchased by the same crowd saying that pve sets should always be BoP because people should do the content that nets them those sets. That scenario is hypocritical is all I'm pointing out.
In most games I will agree with you that re-running content in the hopes that you get the best drop prolongs the content. I've never found that be to true with ESO, whether the problem comes from the content just not being fun enough, the RNG being too extreme, or the overall rewards for time invested not being worthwhile.
Another point I'd throw out there is that the population (at least on PC) is anemic when you take out the players that only run around questing and buying cat mounts. How many dedicated groups are currently running maw or SO? The same problem is present in pvp, the number of dedicated players is anemic. Spend 2 weeks trying to run SO or maw outside of your main raid and join the more casual groups attempting it, I think you'll understand the frustration many players have with BoP gear that's further locked behind RNG. Again, I could give 2 sh3ts about the trial gear, I have what I need for pvp, but acting like these aren't impediments to the general populace is short-sighted.
My argument is keeping the gear in trials behind a BoP wall to keep the want to run it there, if you have all the gear from these trials what need is there to run them for 99% of the game who are not competitive?
You were arguing moondancer is BiS for some builds before, if everyone is running BiS from BoE gear, the trial gear may as well just be a dumb costume or pet if you aren't actually using it. While there are aspects of your argument that have a valid point, it doesn't seem to be true in ESO historically. In theory yes, the individual incentive to run a dungeon (on paper) should go down if you can buy the gear. If the content is hard though... that gear becomes incredibly expensive and the incentive is even greater to run it. Now you want to farm a set for yourself and sets to sell. Think about the warlock jewelry from AA back in the day ... did people stop running AA because you could buy that gear? No, if anything I'd say the number of groups running AA was higher because there was greater financial incentive to farm the gear to sell. If you want a non-trial example you can look at the old school adroitness necklaces from CoH. Sure you could buy them, but people WANTED to run the dungeon because they could farm and sell those necklaces.
Number of groups running AA was higher because it was ridiculously easy (same with Hel Ra).
Also, back in the days of softcaps crit chance was the most valuable stat by far - and as it happens both the BoP light/medium sets had two crit bonuses on them so people used 2-4 parts of those for BiS gear.
Then Sanctum came out, and BiS BoP gear sets were Infallible Aether & Vicious Ophidian (pre-nerf).
Vicious Ophidian was basicly Hunding's Rage with bunch of other bonuses on it.
I loved the set, it was a sad day when they nerfed it and it became BiS only for goblin grinding in CWC.
There have always been cool PvP sets that are BoE from the trials, but best PvE gear has always been BoP.
I'm an outsider to trial pve realm, so correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression is that the number of groups running maw and SO is barebones. When you force people to run a dungeon over and over they're more likely to say F this. When you dangle a carrot like selling gear, they'll continue to run it even after acquiring their own gear. You'll even perhaps get more opportunities to run the content because more people are willing to do the content. The current system is not healthy, at all. I'm surprised to see people saying it's the only thing keeping pve alive when it seems to me like it was what helped kill it off.
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STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Septimus_Magna wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »Everything should be BoE, no exceptions. There's not a single compelling reason to make gear BoP.
How about: having to actually complete that difficult content?
The gear is there as a reward for being a skilled player capable of overcoming difficult feats - not for picking up flowers all day & having a crap ton of gold.
Some players simply dont have the time/skill to run vMA 50 times to get the sharpened fire staff.
Picking rare flowers worth 300g each doesnt compare to gear that sells for 100k a piece.
Players that get the rare items will become richer because they dont have to buy it and can sell what they dont use.
And what exactly is wrong with that some people dont have the time/skill to clear vMSA?
If you can't do it, train, get better - don't complain about players who put in more effort & demand to get the same things they do. That's insulting towards the players who put in all that time to beat the challenges.
There's no room for communism in video games.
Imo what is insulting is the "my fun is better than your fun and so i deserve better rewards"
If making everything BOE is communism, is locking bis content behind puzZles designed to look like combat a military dictatorship?
No, it's more like a common, healthy society.
I don't go around demanding Olympic gold medals, Ferraris & Lamorghinis because I did 100 push ups in the backyard.
No one is DEMANDING any of those things. No one is DEMANDING to be put on a leaderboard for VMOL or whatever as if they accomplushed the achievement.
The are adking for the TION to purchase them from SOMEONE WHO DID "EARN" IT if they can reach an agreement.
They are adking that other types of fun than "solving puzxles that look like combat" also be recognized and fairly treated.
But mostly they are asking for those WHO DID "EARN" IT be given another way to benefitvfrom it, esp given the vsgaries of RNG modelling.
I'm going to pass on loot by Bernie Sanders. IMO, if you want endgame rewards, go earn them.
Ok likely this is just trolling at me but asking for the people with x to be allowed to sell x to those with resource y is not "communism" or "democratic socialism" but acually outright capitalism.
Not issuing judgement on either of these as economic models or their frequent misuse as political systems... but just saying it seems there may be confusion afoot.
I didn't use either of those terms. I simply think that making all gear trivial to obtain matches up with my view of that candidate.
I wont get into your choice to involve current ongoing real world political views into this thread.
But, no one is saying it should be trivial just marketable for whateven value those fortunate enough to obtain it considers reasonable.
There seems to be a serious undercurrent of disparaging or dismissing non-puzxle-solving accomplishments like the market side of thevgsme.
I admit, i rarely do more thsn dabble in that arena, but i dont dismiss those who do anymore thsn i would those eho take the time to solve vmol or vmsa or pac man.
Marketing the gear trivializes obtaining it. With the change to drop rates, the market will be flooded in two weeks. The jewelry will maintain a decent price for a while, but the armor pieces will be under 1k gold a piece in a week.
Uhhh.. so let me get this straight. The special elite stuff some fol hsng "makes me special" on is so frequently obtainable that if they are ALLOWED to sell it the market will flood and prices drop to 1k each in basically no time?
I dont think its the sell then that trivializes it.
Maybe they should change up the puzxle pattetns now and agsin to make constant outflow less of a floid. Like when Ms Pac Man had different solved patterns than Pac Man.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »Septimus_Magna wrote: »Lava_Croft wrote: »Everything should be BoE, no exceptions. There's not a single compelling reason to make gear BoP.
How about: having to actually complete that difficult content?
The gear is there as a reward for being a skilled player capable of overcoming difficult feats - not for picking up flowers all day & having a crap ton of gold.
Some players simply dont have the time/skill to run vMA 50 times to get the sharpened fire staff.
Picking rare flowers worth 300g each doesnt compare to gear that sells for 100k a piece.
Players that get the rare items will become richer because they dont have to buy it and can sell what they dont use.
And what exactly is wrong with that some people dont have the time/skill to clear vMSA?
If you can't do it, train, get better - don't complain about players who put in more effort & demand to get the same things they do. That's insulting towards the players who put in all that time to beat the challenges.
There's no room for communism in video games.
Imo what is insulting is the "my fun is better than your fun and so i deserve better rewards"
If making everything BOE is communism, is locking bis content behind puzZles designed to look like combat a military dictatorship?
No, it's more like a common, healthy society.
I don't go around demanding Olympic gold medals, Ferraris & Lamorghinis because I did 100 push ups in the backyard.
No one is DEMANDING any of those things. No one is DEMANDING to be put on a leaderboard for VMOL or whatever as if they accomplushed the achievement.
The are adking for the TION to purchase them from SOMEONE WHO DID "EARN" IT if they can reach an agreement.
They are adking that other types of fun than "solving puzxles that look like combat" also be recognized and fairly treated.
But mostly they are asking for those WHO DID "EARN" IT be given another way to benefitvfrom it, esp given the vsgaries of RNG modelling.
I'm going to pass on loot by Bernie Sanders. IMO, if you want endgame rewards, go earn them.
Ok likely this is just trolling at me but asking for the people with x to be allowed to sell x to those with resource y is not "communism" or "democratic socialism" but acually outright capitalism.
Not issuing judgement on either of these as economic models or their frequent misuse as political systems... but just saying it seems there may be confusion afoot.
I didn't use either of those terms. I simply think that making all gear trivial to obtain matches up with my view of that candidate.
I wont get into your choice to involve current ongoing real world political views into this thread.
But, no one is saying it should be trivial just marketable for whateven value those fortunate enough to obtain it considers reasonable.
There seems to be a serious undercurrent of disparaging or dismissing non-puzxle-solving accomplishments like the market side of thevgsme.
I admit, i rarely do more thsn dabble in that arena, but i dont dismiss those who do anymore thsn i would those eho take the time to solve vmol or vmsa or pac man.
Marketing the gear trivializes obtaining it. With the change to drop rates, the market will be flooded in two weeks. The jewelry will maintain a decent price for a while, but the armor pieces will be under 1k gold a piece in a week.
Uhhh.. so let me get this straight. The special elite stuff some fol hsng "makes me special" on is so frequently obtainable that if they are ALLOWED to sell it the market will flood and prices drop to 1k each in basically no time?
I dont think its the sell then that trivializes it.
Maybe they should change up the puzxle pattetns now and agsin to make constant outflow less of a floid. Like when Ms Pac Man had different solved patterns than Pac Man.
Wait... What? ?_?1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »All sets should be BoE to begin with... hasn't ZOS heard of "the right of first sale"? We should be allowed to do whatever we want with our gear after we acquire it, including sell it!
Speaking as if you ever acquired (or deserved) any of that gear.
It's so easy to want the things other people have, I get it. Easier than actually going out & earning them.
I've had tons of gear from group dungeons and VMA i had to decon because I couldn't sell it.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »All sets should be BoE to begin with... hasn't ZOS heard of "the right of first sale"? We should be allowed to do whatever we want with our gear after we acquire it, including sell it!
Speaking as if you ever acquired (or deserved) any of that gear.
It's so easy to want the things other people have, I get it. Easier than actually going out & earning them.
I've had tons of gear from group dungeons and VMA i had to decon because I couldn't sell it.
Same here. In fact, when trying to get my Molag Kena helmet for the first time — I had to run VWGT well over 200 times. It was on the 280-something run that I got my helmet, and by then I had numerous copies of SPC (Spell Power Cure). In both divines and infused. Do you know how badly I wanted to sell those extra pieces...? And I mean I had tons of them. I still have a full set in all infused and a full set in all divines, so I can mix it up however I want. But regardless, I could've made millions selling those pieces. Or, I could've given them to guild members who needed them for their builds. But instead, I was stuck deconstructing them along with the other sets that drop in there.
And I don't even how much gold I could make from selling Maelstrom weapons. In my quest of searching for Maelstrom staves, I've gotten tons of: Bows, daggers, greatswords, swords, etc. In numerous traits. I currently have 4 precise bows, like 7 or 8 sharpened bows, like 12 or so sharpened daggers and greatswords, tons of precise daggers, etc. I'm sure there are people who buy them off me like hot cakes, if I could sell them. And I'd sell them each for like 50k a pop, being as I really have no need for them. So you do the math. And keep in mind, those are just the ones I kept and didn't deconstruct.2 -
Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
✭It the same old argument over and over.
Some people think the only reason an MMO can survive is if there is a carrot on a stick. It's quite a ridiculous theory. There are many different motivations for why people run the content, BOP gear is not the end all be all of incentives. Simply farming the gear to sell to others is also incentive. There are many others. Everyone is motivated differently. What you may consider motivation can be demoralizing to others.
The idea that one must put in the hard yards to "earn" gear is just pride and prejudice hidden behind the argument it's the only way to incentivize replayability. It's not. I encourage you to step off your high horses and think out-side the box for 2 minutes.
But whatever this argument is like that of a religious war, it will continue...dare I say forever.Guild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]4 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sure the content is a little harder, but it's the same concept. It's doing the same thing constantly to get drops.
You are comparing apples and llamas here. Consistently doing something that a normal player can do for a piece of equipment is not the same thing as 12 players coming together to complete the 'hardest' content.
One is paying for convenience of time savings the other is paying for an item you would not have been able to get otherwise.Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The only arguments I see for PVE sets staying BoP are to reward those competitive PVEers and to make PVP people run the content. Guess what. If it's BoE YOU DON"T HAVE TO SELL IT. Having things BoE is helpful to everyone. Here is why:
Yet other people will sell it, and that makes the gear common place & unspecial. If there is nothing special & exclusive to gain from the content, why bother? This idea of "helping everyone" is like some communist fantasy.1. RNG is a pain in the butt. The people that farm things like spell power cure will have to run the dungeon many many times to get the traits they want and all the pieces. This will result in those same people farming getting duplicates and unwanted pieces. If it's BoE they can choose to deconstruct it (which is what I assume they do now) or sell it to the highest bidder.
Yes, it is. Other MMOs have better RNG systems, such as group loot & different kinds of token systems, sharing loot with group members etc.2. This gives people who do the PVE content more rewards for their efforts. PVP people can sell the BoE PVP gear they get from rewards, this change only gives PVE players the same outlet for gold.
Gold is not a reward, unique & special gear is a reward. There are better ways of farming gold than running trials and there will always be, no matter what you do to the gear. Some people even simply buy that gold from 3rd party website.
Regardless, there are already BoE sets in every trial for people running the trials to make gold with. New SO is probably the best example of this, as many of those sets are very powerful for multiple PvE/PvP builds.3. The PVP people who only want to do PVP can buy PVE gear without having to do what they don't like about the game.
Ok, by same logic I could say I want emperor passives, but I don't want to PvP to get them.
You can see how ridiculous that argument is.
If you don't like something, don't do it. There are other gear alternatives that are just as good or better for PvP.This encourages more interaction. This encourages people who want to make money to run the content. This allows the guy who has 10 spell power cure boots in divines but still hasn't gotten his legs in divines to sell those extra pieces he doesn't want or need instead of deconstructing or taking up inventory space. This change would only allow people to do what they want in the game and still get the gear they want. What is so wrong with that?
No, it doesn't. It removes interaction - because no sane person would ever enter that dungeon again in search of the spell power cure boots, if that person could just buy them after grinding flowers for 2 hours.
And what is wrong with that is that I don't want people like you having what I've got.
It's like giving Ferraris for free to everyone on planet Earth. What do you think the Ferrari owners would think?Edited by DDuke on June 2, 2016 3:37PM0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sure the content is a little harder, but it's the same concept. It's doing the same thing constantly to get drops.
You are comparing apples and llamas here. Consistently doing something that a normal player can do for a piece of equipment is not the same thing as 12 players coming together to complete the 'hardest' content.
One is paying for convenience of time savings the other is paying for an item you would not have been able to get otherwise.
Imo there are players.
There arent normal players and the rest.
Different players have different preferences and make different choices.
Let ESO establish a market leaderboard that 95% of the pvp cannot get onto with a reward that serves as bis for pvp and i bet there would be outrage.
All i am saying is lets give greed a chance.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
BucFanJKE✭✭✭Sure the content is a little harder, but it's the same concept. It's doing the same thing constantly to get drops.
You are comparing apples and llamas here. Consistently doing something that a normal player can do for a piece of equipment is not the same thing as 12 players coming together to complete the 'hardest' content.
One is paying for convenience of time savings the other is paying for an item you would not have been able to get otherwise.
It is all just how you spend your time. Person A can spend time running dungeons and trials, learning mechanics, and beating the content. Person B can spend time farming dolmens. And Person C can spend time farming alliance points.
Person A gets BoP gear.
Person B gets BoE gear they can sell if they don't need.
Person C gets BoE gear they can sell if they don't need.
All three spent time doing something they wanted to do. Person A can buy all the exclusive PVP sets without having to ever step foot in cyrodil and have golded out vicious death gear or lich gear. Seems to me the PVE people are just being greedy.
The only really hard content in the game right now as I see it is VMoL. It's all about learning mechanics, which is what the people that run dungeons spend their time mastering.
The only people that would be getting the gear to sell or give away would be the people that could complete the content anyways, so I guess by that aspect you could just continue to decon the stuff you don't need right? Why are you worried?0 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭I don't want BIS gear to be BOE to buy it. I want it to be BOE so I can sell it. Not sure why others want to gate it behind the dream team. The Council of Raiders told ZoS in a meeting they want these trials to be Extremely hard. Now you have like 0.01% of the population completing it.
ZoS needs to look at the game as a whole. What % of the population even wants to run trials?
I know many people who ran SO over and over to be competitive on the leaderboards and sold the gear they got a long the way to make a fortune.Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't want BIS gear to be BOE to buy it. I want it to be BOE so I can sell it. Not sure why others want to gate it behind the dream team. The Council of Raiders told ZoS in a meeting they want these trials to be Extremely hard. Now you have like 0.01% of the population completing it.
ZoS needs to look at the game as a whole. What % of the population even wants to run trials?
I know many people who ran SO over and over to be competitive on the leaderboards and sold the gear they got a long the way to make a fortune.
There's still good gear to sell (Viper, Elegance, Skirmisher etc), but there's also exclusive gear for those of us who care about having something others don't.
Win--win.0 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭The only arguments I see for PVE sets staying BoP are to reward those competitive PVEers and to make PVP people run the content. Guess what. If it's BoE YOU DON"T HAVE TO SELL IT. Having things BoE is helpful to everyone. Here is why:
Yet other people will sell it, and that makes the gear common place & unspecial. If there is nothing special & exclusive to gain from the content, why bother? This idea of "helping everyone" is like some communist fantasy.1. RNG is a pain in the butt. The people that farm things like spell power cure will have to run the dungeon many many times to get the traits they want and all the pieces. This will result in those same people farming getting duplicates and unwanted pieces. If it's BoE they can choose to deconstruct it (which is what I assume they do now) or sell it to the highest bidder.
Yes, it is. Other MMOs have better RNG systems, such as group loot & different kinds of token systems, sharing loot with group members etc.2. This gives people who do the PVE content more rewards for their efforts. PVP people can sell the BoE PVP gear they get from rewards, this change only gives PVE players the same outlet for gold.
Gold is not a reward, unique & special gear is a reward. There are better ways of farming gold than running trials and there will always be, no matter what you do to the gear. Some people even simply buy that gold from 3rd party website.
Regardless, there are already BoE sets in every trial for people running the trials to make gold with. New SO is probably the best example of this, as many of those sets are very powerful for multiple PvE/PvP builds.3. The PVP people who only want to do PVP can buy PVE gear without having to do what they don't like about the game.
Ok, by same logic I could say I want emperor passives, but I don't want to PvP to get them.
You can see how ridiculous that argument is.
If you don't like something, don't do it. There are other gear alternatives that are just as good or better for PvP.This encourages more interaction. This encourages people who want to make money to run the content. This allows the guy who has 10 spell power cure boots in divines but still hasn't gotten his legs in divines to sell those extra pieces he doesn't want or need instead of deconstructing or taking up inventory space. This change would only allow people to do what they want in the game and still get the gear they want. What is so wrong with that?
No, it doesn't. It removes interaction - because no sane person would ever enter that dungeon again in search of the spell power cure boots, if that person could just buy them after grinding flowers for 2 hours.
And what is wrong with that is that I don't want people like you having what I've got.
It's like giving Ferraris for free to everyone on planet Earth. What do you think the Ferrari owners would think?
You are about the most selfish person I've seen in this thread. What are you worried about hmm? That someone who can press the keys in the same order you do will outshine your DPS? Are you going to be taken down from your pedestal if someone else gets BIS gear?
Oh and your Ferrari argument....is....absurd. no one is asking for free gear, they want to purchase/sell it.Edited by Xjcon on June 2, 2016 4:58PMBriza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB5 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NateAssassin wrote: »
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2965296#Comment_2965296
Alkosh and Moondancer are best in slot for certain classes.NateAssassin wrote: »
No, it isn't.
It is for some. Every competitive raid wants at least one person running Alkosh. Thanks to RNG, the person that should be running it the raid, never seems to get it. Also, I wont call the 5 piece of Moondancer BIS, but getting 3 jewelry pieces to replace your willpower is certainly BIS any basically any magic build.0 -
SolarCat02✭✭✭✭✭It's like giving Ferraris for free to everyone on planet Earth. What do you think the Ferrari owners would think?
No, it's like Ferrari telling its buyers that if they no longer want the Ferrari they have to destroy it or store it in case they change their mind, because they are not allowed to sell it to anyone else.
What do you think the Ferrari owners would think of that?Edited by SolarCat02 on June 2, 2016 5:14PMWhy be normal when you can be better?
Elissandra Ravenwing, Magicka Dragonknight Healer
Lady Kalila, Stamina Templar DPS
Stands-in-Danger, Nightblade Saptank
Zalarah, Stamina Dragonknight DPS2 -
Wolfchild07✭✭✭✭✭People against BoE aren't thinking outside of the box. Not everyone can "get good", or at least not good enough to complete the challenge. By saying that you can't have the gear if you can't do the content, you're being rather exclusionary. Bare in mind that people with disabilities also play games. It's not right to say others can't have the gear if they put alot of time into grinding regular mobs, or doing other activities, to make enough gold to purchase it from someone else.1 -
BucFanJKE✭✭✭SolarCat02 wrote: »It's like giving Ferraris for free to everyone on planet Earth. What do you think the Ferrari owners would think?
No, it's like Ferrari telling its buyers that if they no longer want the Ferrari they have to destroy it or store it in case they change their mind, because they are not allowed to sell it to anyone else.
What do you think the Ferrari owners would think of that?
That's not even a fair comparison because Ferrari owners had the money and purchased said ferrari lol. This is closer to winning a Ferrari in raffle or contest and not being able to sell it. Cool I won a ferrari, too bad I already have a Bugatti. My best friend only has a pinto, but I'm just gonna set this on fire.3 -
BucFanJKE✭✭✭Wolfchild07 wrote: »People against BoE aren't thinking outside of the box. Not everyone can "get good", or at least not good enough to complete the challenge. By saying that you can't have the gear if you can't do the content, you're being rather exclusionary. Bare in mind that people with disabilities also play games. It's not right to say others can't have the gear if they put alot of time into grinding regular mobs, or doing other activities, to make enough gold to purchase it from someone else.
I think it's funny that most of the people that wants everything to stay bind on pickup are usually the elitists who won't include people in their runs unless they have that bind on pickup gear. Sorry you can't join me on my run because you don't have the gear you earn from the trial I am running.3 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭And it's funny how most of the people feeling entitled to rewards without actually running the content are... people not running said content.
You can't have everything, get good or get over it, instead of trying to discourage the few people doing that content from doing it.0 -
SolarCat02✭✭✭✭✭SolarCat02 wrote: »It's like giving Ferraris for free to everyone on planet Earth. What do you think the Ferrari owners would think?
No, it's like Ferrari telling its buyers that if they no longer want the Ferrari they have to destroy it or store it in case they change their mind, because they are not allowed to sell it to anyone else.
What do you think the Ferrari owners would think of that?
That's not even a fair comparison because Ferrari owners had the money and purchased said ferrari lol. This is closer to winning a Ferrari in raffle or contest and not being able to sell it. Cool I won a ferrari, too bad I already have a Bugatti. My best friend only has a pinto, but I'm just gonna set this on fire.
To be fair, if you won it in a raffle, you are still free to do with it as you wish because it is yours at that point.
The way this game is written, you wouldn't be able to sell it, donate it, trade it, or even change the color.
(I am remembering a car raffle I saw once where the car was painted like a Holstein cow and wondering how many tickets would have been sold if repainting wasn't permitted.
) Edited by SolarCat02 on June 2, 2016 6:09PMWhy be normal when you can be better?
Elissandra Ravenwing, Magicka Dragonknight Healer
Lady Kalila, Stamina Templar DPS
Stands-in-Danger, Nightblade Saptank
Zalarah, Stamina Dragonknight DPS0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Nobody will be discouraged from playing the content they like and giving them the option to sell any rewards they get from said content will only increase their motivation to play said content.And it's funny how most of the people feeling entitled to rewards without actually running the content are... people not running said content.
You can't have everything, get good or get over it, instead of trying to discourage the few people doing that content from doing it.
Someone being opposed to more freedom calling those who would like more freedom 'entitled'. Pure comedy gold, if it wasn't so sad.
Edited by Lava_Croft on June 2, 2016 6:10PM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fyar4wJ3-Y