Why ZOS?! Undaunted chests

Dubhliam · June 2016

I agree, those two traits are useless, nobody should ever want to have them on endgame gear.

However, I am going to step out of the bandwagon and look at this situation from another perspective.

No matter how hated Ahren Jebus is, fact is, RNG is an integral part of any MMO to an extent.
Why? Simply because it prolongs the playability of content in which it is included. I imagine if we had a guaranteed Kena drop in WGT, and all items came in either divines, infused or impen, WGT and ICP would be long ghost towns.
Yet the RNG prolonged that content, and it is still quite active in those two dungeons because it is fairly difficult with a lot of RNG (and bound on pickup) involved.

That being said, ZOS is taking RNG to a complete new level.
Instead of prolonging their content, they will completely destroy any motivation of dedicated PvE players.
Why? Because of one thing: Adhazabi Aba-Daro - the golden Cyrodill vendor.
If there is a vendor that sells Impenetrable and Infused with no RNG involved, while Divines is being locked behind a horrid RNG grind, people will simply stop doing dungeons and instead focus on accumulating the currency to buy shoulders (AND helms).

So you see ZOS, your RNG methods are seriously flawed, you do not prolong the longevity of your PvE 4 man dungeon content.
Instead you are annihilating it completely. Apart from vICP and vWGT, thank god at for at least two hard dungeons that have exclusive items. The other 8 dungeons are dead. RIP.

Dubhliam · June 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

Hey guys, im console and got a serious question for you:

Reading through I gathered there are a LOT of decon fodder in these chests. As I know I wont have enough keys to guarantee anything decent, I wanna make the best choice.

I read roughly 30% to get something decent now. Then additional two bad traits, meaning the 50% trait lotto (at best) becomes 30% (at best)

But I know they haveleaning odds towards the bad traits. Meaning mathematically wouldn't my odds for getting something good be to open the chests Prior to the dlc drop?

Whatcha think? Save or Spend?

Spend.
Impenetrable shoulder you will only be able to buy from the Cyrodill vendor for 200.000 AP a piece.
Not to mention you won't find training and prosperous before DB comes live.

Molag_Crow · June 2016

What did Dark Brotherhood change about the undaunted chests? I haven't looked through the patch notes properly...

Molag_Crow · June 2016

Oh nvm, I found it!

Exploration & Itemization
General
Improved the rewards obtained from the Undaunted chests.
The items you obtain from the chests always scale with your level, all the way up to Champion 160.
We've also increased the availability of Monster Shoulder set items in these chests.
Gold chests will now always contain a Monster Shoulder set item, Silver Chests often contain one, and Bronze chests occasionally contain one.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

The_Outsider wrote: »

End game gear with Training and Prosperous traits. Not only is this not ideal or desirable, it is flat-out illogical.

Let me tell you why not: If you had your stuff straight away, as did everyone else having it your way, what good would Undaunted be then once you're set up?
Further on, those traits are ingame at all levels, why not on Kena?
Even further on: if all the stuff was "good" (as per your opinion), then were would people get decon stuff? XD

Hell, see, ZoS, why have dungeons, just GIVE it to us, so we do not have to spend our extremely important time with dungeons...
To those that did not get this: it was sarcasm.

Lore_lai · June 2016

Saving all those keys, waiting to open all those chests with DB patch...
...and opening them

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · June 2016

Life sucks.
Pray to... nevermind, doesn't work anyways.

NateAssassin · June 2016

Opened my saved up keys, 85% of them were Prosperous, and all the shoulders I wanted/needed for builds were all Prosperous, only shoulders I got which were not were Maw of the Infernal, in which I got at least 10 or 12 of, 3 of which were medium Divines. Three of the same weight with Divines.

At least on endgame stuff I will get rich faster.

Brrrofski · June 2016

So, I have 21 on xbox currently.

Am I better off using them before the patch? Well-fitted or sturdy is the worse I can get currently, plus can get impen. Is that worth risking? Or get guaranteed shoulders in two weeks but worse traits in the loot table.

Cinnamin0_0 · June 2016

Dubhliam wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Hey guys, im console and got a serious question for you:

Reading through I gathered there are a LOT of decon fodder in these chests. As I know I wont have enough keys to guarantee anything decent, I wanna make the best choice.

I read roughly 30% to get something decent now. Then additional two bad traits, meaning the 50% trait lotto (at best) becomes 30% (at best)

But I know they haveleaning odds towards the bad traits. Meaning mathematically wouldn't my odds for getting something good be to open the chests Prior to the dlc drop?

Whatcha think? Save or Spend?

Spend.
Impenetrable shoulder you will only be able to buy from the Cyrodill vendor for 200.000 AP a piece.
Not to mention you won't find training and prosperous before DB comes live.

^^^^^^^

Brrrofski wrote: »

So, I have 21 on xbox currently.

Am I better off using them before the patch? Well-fitted or sturdy is the worse I can get currently, plus can get impen. Is that worth risking? Or get guaranteed shoulders in two weeks but worse traits in the loot table.

magnusthorek · June 2016

I didn't waste so many keys as you because I stopped doing dungeons a long time ago but I burned a few and got dozens of Training/Prosperous too.

It's ridiculous!

Good that at least one SILVER KEY gave me a Molag Kena Divines

Yolokin_Swagonborn · June 2016

I'm ok with any trait that offers some sort of combat benefit. Everyone seems to want divines. That makes 1 desirable trait, 3 less desirable ones, 2 completely useless ones (prosperous/training) and two unobtainable ones (impen/nirn).

If ZOS added impen/nirnhoned, but removed prosperous/training, they would still have 7 traits (to dilute the loot tables like they like) but everything you got would at least be useful in some way. You could use the impen for PvP and research/decon the nirn.

People are getting too wrapped up in the RNG battle. We accept that RNG is part of the game. We don't want completely useless options tossed into RNG for "fun."

REMOVE Prosperous/Training; Add Impen/nirnhoned. Everybody wins.

DocFrost72 · June 2016

Well, with 11 keys I got reinforced heavy engine guardians and infused heavy kena. I think the issue is RNG, if you opened up 30, 70, or 100+ (lol) chests and got "nothing useful."

That said, I can see why people wouldn't want these two traits...but Molag Kena arm cops in any trait > crafted, last I checked.

flguy147ub17_ESO · June 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

So, I have 21 on xbox currently.

Am I better off using them before the patch? Well-fitted or sturdy is the worse I can get currently, plus can get impen. Is that worth risking? Or get guaranteed shoulders in two weeks but worse traits in the loot table.

Man i am in the same boat as you. I am more of a PVP player and if they dont put impen in the chests before Console launch then i am personally going to use all my keys the day before DB is released on console. The only trait i care about is impen.

Dubhliam · June 2016

Let's take a look at ZOS' endgame content:

Cyrodill/Imperial City (PvP) Trials/Group dungeons (PvE)
Now, let's focus on the Group dungeons aspect of PvE.

The incentive to doing dungeons are of course Undaunted Monster sets, apart from bound IC sets.
The way it is done is with dailies and Silver/Gold key rewards - a combination of time and RNG to ensure a lasting gear grind.

The problem occurred when Adhazabi Aba-Daro - the golden Cyrodill vendor got introduced.
She does not incorporate RNG into the reward, it is only locked behind time and a price. A different kind of time, mind you - because this is passive time, while for Gold keys you need to be active every day to maximize your reward.

So you see, Adhazabi gives a very unfair advantage, allowing players to accumulate currency by any means they want and whenever they have time to play, then simply wait out for their wanted reward in one of two most wanted traits.

I advocated a different approach of a Cyrodill vendor, but nobody wanted it of course, because it involved RNG.
That solution would however keep the two rewarding methods on par, instead of giving advantage to players that don't play dungeons.

This was even before the changes to the Undaunted Chest loot tables. Now that Impenetrable has been removed, and two more useless traits got introduced it is an even more frustrating experience to open Undaunted Chests.
I can speak for myself: I don't value gold keys since the Cyrodill vendor got introduced, and don't do Undaunted dailies anymore unless they are vICP or vWGT (but not for the keys or helms - for the other BoP gear).

Now ZOS completely destroyed any motivation for people to do dungeons (apart from random daily rewards).

The only way to get out of this mess they put themselves in is to introduce a token system.
They don't even need to add new tokens - bronze, silver and gold keys might be used as currency.
But something definitely needs to be done to give advantage to players finishing Undaunted dailies as opposed to simply buying Monster sets from Adhazabi.

EDIT: another solution would be to remove the option to buy Monster sets with gold from Adhazabi.
Make Impenetreable purchasable with AP, and Infused purchasable with X Gold Keys.

Letho2469 · June 2016

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Could u give us a confirmation that undaunted chests no longer droping impenetrable trait is intended instead of bugged? Why is this important to us? Many ppl saved undaunted keys for the time after DB release (100% chance to get a shoulder for a gold key). If you could confirm this behaviour war intended, we could finally spend all those keys and stop waiting for a possible fix for a possible bug (because patch notes didn't mention anything like the removal of impen). Such changes should be communicated via patch notes.

flguy147ub17_ESO · June 2016

Letho2469 wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Could u give us a confirmation that undaunted chests no longer droping impenetrable trait is intended instead of bugged? Why is this important to us? Many ppl saved undaunted keys for the time after DB release (100% chance to get a shoulder for a gold key). If you could confirm this behaviour war intended, we could finally spend all those keys and stop waiting for a possible fix for a possible bug (because patch notes didn't mention anything like the removal of impen). Such changes should be communicated via patch notes.

Agree with this, ZOS needs to respond to us and let us know if they intend to add impen back or not. You are basically putting the console community on hold to use their keys if they want impen. Just a simple response would show you cared about your player base. Even if we dont like the answer, paying customers deserve an answer and response so we know if we should go ahead and use our keys or wait.

TARAFRAKA · June 2016

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Letho2469 wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Could u give us a confirmation that undaunted chests no longer droping impenetrable trait is intended instead of bugged? Why is this important to us? Many ppl saved undaunted keys for the time after DB release (100% chance to get a shoulder for a gold key). If you could confirm this behaviour war intended, we could finally spend all those keys and stop waiting for a possible fix for a possible bug (because patch notes didn't mention anything like the removal of impen). Such changes should be communicated via patch notes.

Agree with this, ZOS needs to respond to us and let us know if they intend to add impen back or not. You are basically putting the console community on hold to use their keys if they want impen. Just a simple response would show you cared about your player base. Even if we dont like the answer, paying customers deserve an answer and response so we know if we should go ahead and use our keys or wait.

It is in fact intended no doubt about it. Last eso live specifically mentioned impenetrable was removed from the undaunted chests but they may consider putting it in at a later time...which means no eta. Spend your keys.

The_Rooster24 · June 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

End game gear with Training and Prosperous traits. Not only is this not ideal or desirable, it is flat-out illogical.

Let me tell you why not: If you had your stuff straight away, as did everyone else having it your way, what good would Undaunted be then once you're set up?
Further on, those traits are ingame at all levels, why not on Kena?
Even further on: if all the stuff was "good" (as per your opinion), then were would people get decon stuff? XD

Hell, see, ZoS, why have dungeons, just GIVE it to us, so we do not have to spend our extremely important time with dungeons...
To those that did not get this: it was sarcasm.

Here lies the serious problem you have the same flawed logic ZOS does removing training and prosperous and adding impen doesnt guarantee ***. The rng will still be there. Why is that so hard to understand? Please stop posting if you are this dumb.

The_Rooster24 · June 2016

Tryxus wrote: »

Had 30 keys, both Silver and Gold (60 in total):

- Opens first gold chest: Molag Kena Med Training
- 2nd gold key: Nerien'eth Heavy Preposterous
- etc
- ...

60 keys, only got 3 useful shoulders: Divines EG Heavy, Divines Nerien'eth Heavy and Valkyn Skoria Light Sturdy (crap trait, but the best one I found since the others were Training or Preposterous too)

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

RNG is not the answer. Can you guys please get rid of everything RNG based and come up with a system that rewards ppl who put in time and effort instead of simply being lucky?

There are several other ways to implement something that keep people playing this game and prevent them from getting the best gear ASAP (which is what you guys want, right?) while at the same time allowing them to reap the right rewards at the end of it all.

RNG is the worst: it favors those who are lucky. And some of them do get the best gear ASAP

So please: no more lockboxes, no more gearboxes, no more Undaunted Keys, no more Golden Vendors, NO MORE RNG!

The rng needs to be there I don't agree with you on the point. With that being said what should happen is a mrecant or reroll system that costs undaunted keys. That makes the content still have to be played and you still have to do pledges to get the items. I am 100% not for people getting what they want 1st run, but even to this day I have yet to get the shoulders I want in except for kena and bloodspawn. Everything else is just something I'm making work.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · June 2016

The_Rooster24 wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Had 30 keys, both Silver and Gold (60 in total):

- Opens first gold chest: Molag Kena Med Training
- 2nd gold key: Nerien'eth Heavy Preposterous
- etc
- ...

60 keys, only got 3 useful shoulders: Divines EG Heavy, Divines Nerien'eth Heavy and Valkyn Skoria Light Sturdy (crap trait, but the best one I found since the others were Training or Preposterous too)

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

RNG is not the answer. Can you guys please get rid of everything RNG based and come up with a system that rewards ppl who put in time and effort instead of simply being lucky?

There are several other ways to implement something that keep people playing this game and prevent them from getting the best gear ASAP (which is what you guys want, right?) while at the same time allowing them to reap the right rewards at the end of it all.

RNG is the worst: it favors those who are lucky. And some of them do get the best gear ASAP

So please: no more lockboxes, no more gearboxes, no more Undaunted Keys, no more Golden Vendors, NO MORE RNG!

The rng needs to be there I don't agree with you on the point. With that being said what should happen is a mrecant or reroll system that costs undaunted keys. That makes the content still have to be played and you still have to do pledges to get the items. I am 100% not for people getting what they want 1st run, but even to this day I have yet to get the shoulders I want in except for kena and bloodspawn. Everything else is just something I'm making work.

So if the RNG needs to be there, can we at least just have traits that are usefull?

Currently 7 traits drop out of 9: Status Quo argument for sufficient RNG.
Replace training and prosperous for Impen and Nirnhoned: Still 7 traits drop. Same level of RNG. Except now every trait isnt useless.
Everybody wins.
Why cant we have this?

Flak · June 2016

Yes these traits are ridiculous, I needed a Medium Divine Mephala Shouder, so I went to turn in my 200 Gold- and 50 Silverkeys. Best thing I got was a Medium Infused.
I would really like to know what ZOS thinks is a reasonable amount of time spent to get a piece of gear that you want. That was more than a 100 hours of playtime, so do you really think that's not enough? Actually if you do the math, you have 10 different sets in 3 types of armor coming in 7 traits. That equals to a chance of 1:210 to get your desired piece. Is that reasonable if you can just buy it now for gold?

acw37162 · June 2016

Impen serves no purpose in PVE, PVP players have raised several points about having to PVE to get monster helms and shoulder.

Monster helms and shoulders are available in the vendor in Cyrodil when she decides to show up for AP is why they moved where you can get impen

flguy147ub17_ESO · June 2016

acw37162 wrote: »

Impen serves no purpose in PVE, PVP players have raised several points about having to PVE to get monster helms and shoulder.

Monster helms and shoulders are available in the vendor in Cyrodil when she decides to show up for AP is why they moved where you can get impen

Then why should PVE players be able to buy PVE monster helms and shoulders from a PVP vendor? Works both ways, PVE players can get their sets from both chests and PVP vendor but PVP can only get it from the vendor once a week and PVE players have a chance daily to get their pieces. That is totally giving PVP players the finger.

threefarms · June 2016

ZOS is stupid, I swear.

DaveMoeDee · June 2016

Nemeliom wrote: »

Isn't training trait useful for Champion Points?

You can craft white gear for grinding CP. Don't even need to improve the gear. There is no need to grind to get special gear for that.

The_Rooster24 · June 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The_Rooster24 wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Had 30 keys, both Silver and Gold (60 in total):

- Opens first gold chest: Molag Kena Med Training
- 2nd gold key: Nerien'eth Heavy Preposterous
- etc
- ...

60 keys, only got 3 useful shoulders: Divines EG Heavy, Divines Nerien'eth Heavy and Valkyn Skoria Light Sturdy (crap trait, but the best one I found since the others were Training or Preposterous too)

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

RNG is not the answer. Can you guys please get rid of everything RNG based and come up with a system that rewards ppl who put in time and effort instead of simply being lucky?

There are several other ways to implement something that keep people playing this game and prevent them from getting the best gear ASAP (which is what you guys want, right?) while at the same time allowing them to reap the right rewards at the end of it all.

RNG is the worst: it favors those who are lucky. And some of them do get the best gear ASAP

So please: no more lockboxes, no more gearboxes, no more Undaunted Keys, no more Golden Vendors, NO MORE RNG!

The rng needs to be there I don't agree with you on the point. With that being said what should happen is a mrecant or reroll system that costs undaunted keys. That makes the content still have to be played and you still have to do pledges to get the items. I am 100% not for people getting what they want 1st run, but even to this day I have yet to get the shoulders I want in except for kena and bloodspawn. Everything else is just something I'm making work.

So if the RNG needs to be there, can we at least just have traits that are usefull?
Currently 7 traits drop out of 9: Status Quo argument for sufficient RNG.

Replace training and prosperous for Impen and Nirnhoned: Still 7 traits drop. Same level of RNG. Except now every trait isnt useless.

Everybody wins.

Why cant we have this?

I agree 100%