Does nobody else see how wrong this is? (craft bags)

Gidorick · May 2016

SneaK wrote: »

I have ESO+ and 100% support the OP. ZOS, sell this guy his crafting bag.

lol. wow @SneaK , I'm glad not all ESO+ members are taking the stance of "No! It's ours! We deserve it!"

wayfarerx · May 2016

SneaK wrote: »

BrotherChaz wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I have ESO+ and 100% support the OP. ZOS, sell this guy his crafting bag.

Thanks for posting. It seems likely my point will be lost to most. Thanks for the calm voice of reason. Respect.

Literally no good reason for any of these yahoos to be against your proposal. Even from a business standpoint with ZOS, they sell the bags they make more money, and make more people happy.

So if ZOS chooses to sell something for a flat fee as opposed to renting it month to month, they make more money? How much exactly do you expect them to charge for this bag as a one time fee?

Taisynn · May 2016

Cuyler wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Now ZOS is forcing me to make a choice: I have to subscribe and not get collectors editions, not subscribe and have to struggle with my inventory, or waste money by subscribing AND buying the collectors edition?

Wouldn't you get a number of crowns cheaper for subscribing? and then be able to purchase the collector's edition with those crowns? while getting ESO+ benefits?

Sooooo wouldn't it actually be cheaper for you? maybe I'm missing something here......

It isn't cheaper - you're paying more for crowns by subscribing than if you just pay for the crowns outright. If you're looking for just crowns, not sub perks, it's cheaper to just buy crowns.

I'm a subscriber and I buy crowns.

SwaminoNowlino · May 2016

@newtinmpls You don't have to be an economist or anything to understand this, just look at the general operating practices of businesses.

Businesses that incentivize cash over credit are generally businesses with small margins or those who cannot afford a riskier portfolio. Take a locally owned shop. The margins are generally low and processing credit cards come with a fee, either a per swipe fee or a large lump sum payment. These businesses are incentivized to encourage cash purchases because it reduces their general overhead. Another example is a distribution company that offers discounts for upfront cash purchases. When businesses are doing their planning for the future, they look at their account portfolios. Especially their accounts receivable. They factor in that a portion of that will not be collectable (defaults, bankruptcies, etc). If you can encourage more upfront payment, you can reduce this margin and reduce your overall risk when running a high accounts receivable.

Now look at a gym. Gym's generally want people to sign up for long term subscriptions. This gives them a steady flow of money over which to make investments, without actually having to provide anything different. They have a base product that is there for those who want to use it. But gym's largely don't want to be overcrowded, as no one wants to wait in line to use a piece of equipment, and potential subs don't want to see long lines. They sell subs with the idea that 3 months from now, it is probably unlikely that you will still be coming to the gym. But you made that year commitment in terms of subbing. They also do a lot of market research in terms of what to charge. If they charge too much, then people will feel more committed to going to get their money's worth, eating up capacity, and meaning you will be more likely to cancel your sub. Some gyms like Planet Fitness actually charge so little because they know a percentage of those people will never come, but the $10 is such a little amount that they know you won't bother to cancel it because you like the idea of it being there if you go back.

ESO in this case is the gym. It is a pretty standard business model for a company like this. Intermittent purchases are unreliable and relatively more expensive to develop and sell.

SneaK · May 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

BrotherChaz wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I have ESO+ and 100% support the OP. ZOS, sell this guy his crafting bag.

Thanks for posting. It seems likely my point will be lost to most. Thanks for the calm voice of reason. Respect.

Literally no good reason for any of these yahoos to be against your proposal. Even from a business standpoint with ZOS, they sell the bags they make more money, and make more people happy.

So if ZOS chooses to sell something for a flat fee as opposed to renting it month to month, they make more money? How much exactly do you expect them to charge for this bag as a one time fee?

Well I was picturing it being available to both, subscribers and buyers. I'd bet you'd also have a lot of subscribers buy it even though they're subs. Which would actually mean more subs spending their allotted crowns so more potential for said subs to buy more crowns for oh let's say, a wolf mount.

MasterSpatula · May 2016

I resubbed for crafting bags. They finally made subbing worth it.

If they make the bags available in any other way, subbing will once again not be worth it. They would have to make another exclusive perk, and it really doesn't matter what it is, some players will immediately freak out, call the perk P2W, and insist they should be able to buy it.

You want the bags. You don't want to pay 50¢ a day for it. I get it. But I spent $14 on my lunch today. I'm good with dropping two quarters a day not to have to play the Inventory Minigame.

It's an ongoing perk. Giving it an ongoing cost is not unethical, it's not unfair, it's not foolish or short-sighted or stupid, it's not a slap in the face, and it's not pay-to-win.

Serenityx · May 2016

Okay, I just want to clear up the difference between being loyal/dedicated and being an ESO+ member. Its really simple, you are not a "loyal" and thus so entitled to this craft bag simply because you have an active ESO+ subscription. If this was to reward loyal subscribers, it would be given to those whom ZOS considers loyal (Account creation date or something similar would be used as criteria)

Gidorick · May 2016

Cuyler wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Now ZOS is forcing me to make a choice: I have to subscribe and not get collectors editions, not subscribe and have to struggle with my inventory, or waste money by subscribing AND buying the collectors edition?

Wouldn't you get a number of crowns cheaper for subscribing? and then be able to purchase the collector's edition with those crowns? while getting ESO+ benefits?

Sooooo wouldn't it actually be cheaper for you? maybe I'm missing something here......

no @Cuyler , it's cheaper to buy Crown Packs

Crown Packs:

750 Crowns = $7.99 = 94 Crowns /$
1500 Crowns = $14.99 = 100 Crowns/$
3000 Crowns = $24.99 = 120 Crowns/$
5500 Crowns = $39.99 = 137.5 Crowns/$

Plus Subscriptions:

30 Day Sub = 1500 Crowns = $14.99 = 100 Crowns/$
90 Day Sub = 4500 Crowns = $41.97 = 107 Crowns/$
180 Day Sub = 9000 Crowns = $77.94 = 115.5 Crowns/$

The ONLY situation where it's cheaper as an ESO+ for crowns is if you buy 750 crown packs... are those even available anymore?

Also and asking a consumer to REBUY items that they are already paying a subscription to access flat out ridiculous. If we got permanent access to DLC I would sub and buy the mounts with the Crowns I would get.. because then I wouldn't feel like I was getting screwed by access to DLC being included in ESO+. Oh yea... I forgot I have a suggestion for that too...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/244383/dlc-token-for-eso-members/p1

Gidorick wrote: »

One of the things that keeps me from subscribing to ESO+ is the idea that we loose access to the DLC if we unsubscribe. I would much prefer a system where we earned permanent ownership of a DLC license for subscribing for multiple months. Since DLC is going to release once a quarter, I suggest ZOS add the following to two of the tiers of the subscription model:

90 Day Subscription:
1 DLC Token Redeemable for 1 standard DLC.

180 Day Subscription
2 DLC Tokens Redeemable for 1 standard DLC each.

DLC Tokens should be able to also be "upgraded" with Crowns to allow players to buy the Collectors Editions of DLC. Functionally I guess players could use the DLC token + 2000 Crowns to purchase a Collector's Token.

Along with this, ZOS should add the 90 and 180 subs to consoles. Why they don't have that option is beyond me.

What you are missing is ZOS crapped on those of us who subbed for that first year by going buy to play only to place the ONLY available inventory fix (an inventory that has been complained about since beta) behind that same subscription they claimed we no longer need.

No we don't NEED it to play, but placing a fix to a problem to a system that is as persistent and integral to gameplay as inventory behind a subscription is just wrong.

If someone can't understand that, I don't know what more I can say to try to explain it @Cuyler.

ShedsHisTail · May 2016

How did the craft bag become "fundamental" suddenly when everyone has been getting by just fine for two years without them?

It's like that thing you didn't even know you couldn't live without until someone else had one.

JD2013 · May 2016

The DLC goes live in a week. ZOS aren't going to change their minds on this.

The reason ESO+ subscribers get this perk is because the $15 a month is what's known as projectable income. That's safe and secure income that they can count and make decisions with and count on every month.

Crown purchases are less reliable. They can't tell if one morning someone will say "oh I think I'll spend money on crowns today" as they aren't psychic.

It's a perk that's not overly needed for the overall quality of playability (I've managed two plus years without it!) but in the future they may increase inventory space. Who knows?

But for now, it's coming, they aren't changing their minds, ESO+ subscribers are getting the crafting bag.

Bunndale · May 2016

What's a crafting bag

wayfarerx · May 2016

SneaK wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

BrotherChaz wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I have ESO+ and 100% support the OP. ZOS, sell this guy his crafting bag.

Thanks for posting. It seems likely my point will be lost to most. Thanks for the calm voice of reason. Respect.

Literally no good reason for any of these yahoos to be against your proposal. Even from a business standpoint with ZOS, they sell the bags they make more money, and make more people happy.

So if ZOS chooses to sell something for a flat fee as opposed to renting it month to month, they make more money? How much exactly do you expect them to charge for this bag as a one time fee?

Well I was picturing it being available to both, subscribers and buyers. I'd bet you'd also have a lot of subscribers buy it even though they're subs. Which would actually mean more subs spending their allotted crowns so more potential for said subs to buy more crowns for oh let's say, a wolf mount.

Many, many people have complained about the lack of benefits to ESO+ subscribers. Many, many people have unsubbed because they thought the benefits were not worth the cost (this very thread features numerous such anecdotes). There are now a lot of people who are resubbbing for this one benefit (again, they are posting in this thread).

ZOS found something to add to ESO+ to finally make it a compelling purchase for a lot of their customers and they will likely receive a massive windfall of subs from this one move. If you don't want to pay the price they are charging for it, that's fine, don't. However, pretending that buffing ESO+ and getting more subscriptions is not exactly the intent of the crafting bag is pretty myopic.

nimander99 · May 2016

Personally I think this is a straight up master stroke of brilliance on the part of whoever came up with this idea at Zenimax, that person need s a bonus!

Everyone is going to sub now, period.

It's not manipulative, it's not sneaky, it's not underhanded, it's business! And smart business at that.

Kudos ZOS on the crafting bags, mad kudos.

And this is coming from someone who has been an active subscriber since June 2014 and purchased the Collector Editions of each DLC.

I respect smart business moves.

exeeter702 · May 2016

BrotherChaz wrote: »

First of all this post is not intended for ESO+ customers, you have no worries... Also please note: Where I use all caps for some words it is not intended as shouting. It is for EMPHASIS only to make a point. No offense is intended. I hope that this opinion post will not be a source of flaming posts... I just had to say something about a topic I feel strongly about.

But for those of us who have spent a serious ammount of real $$$ on buying the game, all add-on world expansions, mounts, costumes, personal banker, etc. etc.. This needs to be an option available to us also.

The crafting resource bags being available to JUST eso+ people is wrong.
Im sorry but This is a major item(fundumental even) that ALL CHARACTERS need, especially with NEW CRAFTING SYSTEMS/ITEMS being added with the new expansion.

I love the game but this is JUST Wrong. Having to get eso+ JUST to get CRAFTING BAGS feels a little bit like a slap in the face to those like me wh who have spent WAY in excess of the ammount that getting eso+ would have been ... I still have additional items (personal Merchant, New Assasins expansion etc.) I had planned to buy right away...

Sadly despite all the upcoming changes, which I have no problem with, this one most necessary item not being available to ALL LOYAL customers just does not seem right. I love the game but this one thing... well it just is not right.

I can not justify buying more at this point .. please keep in mind I have no problem with eso+ people getting it for free with subscription... My point is that those who have supported the game by purchasing everything up to this point should be allowed to get the much needed option also. Sell it as an option I would buy it even if it were 2000 crowns or whatever.

Sorry it was so long... I just had to say something. I hope this oversight(in my opinion) gets resolved. I hate it when a favorite game becomes less fun because of what the company does to its structure. Its my greatest hope this will not be the case here.

For those who want to say "Well just get eso+" I have to reply: think about it... After buying ALL the addons it just isnt fair to then FEEL FORCED to go mwith eso+ just for craft bags. What about all that money spent on the expansions? Would we be entitled to a refund since these purchased items are now included free? No there needs to be some fair mindedness and common sence applied here.

Thanks for listening. Please no flamers. I just had to get this out. Peace.

Sorry amigo but there is a simple truth that you are conveniently ignoring.

This is absolutely not about how much money a player spends and wether or not they are entitled to said features.

This has everything to do with giving a desirable perk to players that support the game in a specific way that ZOS would prefer.

Subscriptions are a stable form of revenue, the more subs the easier it is for them to assess what that can and can't do in a given time frame as far as content delivery is concerned.

Crown store or any cash shop system is much more volatile (as I've said countless times on these forums) and is better for the short term.

The fact that there is so much dissent about the craft bag being exclusive to eso+ is indicitive enough that they have FINALLY make a perk that really gives incentive to subscribe.

It is a QoL feature and if you want to rent it like subscribers rent the dlc, it will cost you 15 a month. Period. This is not an issue of fairness or lack thereof.

Auricle · May 2016

While I disagree with the OP's view of this issue, many other have already posted exactly the reasons why having ESO+ tied to crafting bags is an excellent idea, so I won't reiterate. However, I do have a question for the OP or anyone who wants the bags to be a CS item.

How much do you value the crafting bag? How much do you think something like this is worth? If you don't want it to be tied to a sub, then what price do you think would fairly offset the reliable income of someone subbing for a lengthy amount of time? 10k crowns? 20k? Less? And how do you justify the pricing in your own mind?

Just curious. No one who opposes the ESO+ perk has offered up any suggestions, so... ?

sekou_trayvond · May 2016

Y'all might as well close this thread down because @SwaminoNowlino has done schooled you all.

#WereNotWorthy

Tommy1979AtWar · May 2016

As a B2P customer who already owns all of the dlcs etc it wouldn't be worth it for me to sub, they'd all have been a waste of money if I subbed now so my decision is just to not purchase anything else from zo$ or support the development of game further, if B2P customers aren't wanted or needed anymore then they don't need any more of my cash.

Gidorick · May 2016

Kendaric wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The sub-benefit that I personally equate the crafting bags to is SWTOR's "Spring" benefit. In SWTOR, only subscribed players can sprint. To me, the philosophy is the same. SWTOR's subscription benefits are meant to annoy players into subscribing. ESO+ adding crafting bags are meant to do the same.

I feel like they're trying to manipulate non ESO+ players into subscribing... and that is never a good feeling to have while playing a videogame for fun.

That's not entirely correct (unless it was changed recently)... sprint is available to F2P players as well as subs in SWTOR, F2P players just need to get to level 10 to use it.
The two business models aren't really comparable, though. BioWare/EA basically annoys players into subscribing by reducing their experience point gain, limiting the number of crafting professions, limiting the number of times you can gain loot from flashpoint bosses (their version of dungons), etc.
ESO merely has convience features offered for subs (increased exp gain, reduced research times and now the crafting bag).
That's, in my opinion, a fundamental difference... while ESO offers incentives to subscribe, SWTOR annoys you into subscription.

I wasn't aware of that as I haven't played SWTOR, only looked up the benefits when making suggestions for ESO+ @Kendaric ... if that's true then the equivalency in ESO would be if, in ESO, we got the Crafting Bags after a certain level.

I wouldn't call placing a fix to a long perceived and complained about problem (inventory being horrible) behind a subscription an incentive. I would call that an annoyance. Especially considering the number crafting materials that have bene added to ESO with DLC expansions.

I agree that ESO+ up to now have included incentives to sub. Crafting bags change that. Crafting bags offer an advantage to ESO+ players and non ESO+ players have absolutely zero equivalency. That's the problem. We no longer have equal experiences with 2 ways to play.

I can't kill a few more of this or that to get the crafting bags like I can with the 10% bonuses.

I can't pay Crowns to get access to the crafting bags like I can the DLC.

There is no way for a non ESO+ member to gain an equivalent benefit.

If you don't agree that this is an issue then I cant' help you.

rotaugen454 · May 2016

I guarantee that if they sold it in the crown store, the first posts would be people complaining that it costs too much.

SneaK · May 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

BrotherChaz wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I have ESO+ and 100% support the OP. ZOS, sell this guy his crafting bag.

Thanks for posting. It seems likely my point will be lost to most. Thanks for the calm voice of reason. Respect.

Literally no good reason for any of these yahoos to be against your proposal. Even from a business standpoint with ZOS, they sell the bags they make more money, and make more people happy.

So if ZOS chooses to sell something for a flat fee as opposed to renting it month to month, they make more money? How much exactly do you expect them to charge for this bag as a one time fee?

Well I was picturing it being available to both, subscribers and buyers. I'd bet you'd also have a lot of subscribers buy it even though they're subs. Which would actually mean more subs spending their allotted crowns so more potential for said subs to buy more crowns for oh let's say, a wolf mount.

Many, many people have complained about the lack of benefits to ESO+ subscribers. Many, many people have unsubbed because they thought the benefits were not worth the cost (this very thread features numerous such anecdotes). There are now a lot of people who are resubbbing for this one benefit (again, they are posting in this thread).

ZOS found something to add to ESO+ to finally make it a compelling purchase for a lot of their customers and they will likely receive a massive windfall of subs from this one move. If you don't want to pay the price they are charging for it, that's fine, don't. However, pretending that buffing ESO+ and getting more subscriptions is not exactly the intent of the crafting bag is pretty myopic.

Not sure where I ever sounded interested in your reasoning.. I don't get why so many people are up in arms about it. I am sub and I'll probably continue to be, regardless of the bag. OP isn't and I understand why he wants his bag and support his reasoning.

ShedsHisTail · May 2016

Why not just use all those crowns you're buying instead of subscribing and buy a merchant to follow you around?
Won't allow you to carry around billions or crafting mats, but can help keep your inventory clear while adventuring.

KallistaBlackheart · May 2016

no. become an ESO+ member. this is a perk and it's a perk that has been talked about and now promised for a while.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In short.....
-The bag should be a base game feature and the ability to obtain the bag should be in-line with:
-crowns
-in-game gold
-ESO Plus

There are a lot of arguments or opinions but bottom line is this. ZOS has moved away from their initial confirmation of what would be linked to a subscription and what would be in the crown store.

Also, the fact that ESO Plus doesn't work as it should on Xbox One, the bag or any other features should be exclusive to a sub.

How have they gone away with what they said as far as subscription and crown store? the BAG is convenience like literally if I could describe the bag I would say: a bag to conveniently store crafting items instead of having to visit the bank or mule alts.

The first and most obvious is what I mention as respects to Xbox One...this has been the case since day 1 and it still occurs as recent as April 28th 2016

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/03/17/crown-store-showcase
" Don't forget that members of ESO Plus receive a monthly allotment of crowns in addition to other in-game bonuses! "

The other concern is items that are locked behind a sub or crowns
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/02/12/the-road-ahead---february
"he most important thing to remember about Tamriel Unlimited's virtual currency system is that we're not adjusting the base game—it will be exactly the same game, with the same leveling pace, experience point gain, user interface, etc.
We're adding customization and convenience items in the Crown Store, but those will be added to the game as it is now; we're not going to make it harder for you to enjoy the game you already play to encourage you to use the Crown Store."

"Game Director Matt Firor explained that the base game will maintain "the same levelling pace, experience point gain, [and] user interface" it always has, and promised that it won't be made more difficult to play for those who don't spring for real-money items."

"An item in the Crown Store serves one of two purposes: It either provides a visual upgrade or distinction for your character, or it provides a way to save time at the expense of spending Crowns," he wrote. "When it comes to this second category of items, we will generally make in-game variants of similar items available either as drops or as player-craftable items as well."

Not sure if you're on PTS but ther

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Thank you for your oppinion. However I disagree. ESO has every right to provide these bags exclusively to subscribers and no need to bow threads like this one.

Anyone with basic economic and marketing knowledge would understand that subscriptions are the prefered source of income for a great many reasons. At that this carrot added to the ESO+ benefits is a big plus for marketing subscriptions.

In the end, crafting bag exclusive to ESO + is a win win for Zos. You can sub if you want to.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO just read right above....its not a matter of opinion according to my comments above. While others have input their opinions and such, when the director of any company goes public with statements, that company should always make decisions around those statements.

This literally makes the game more difficult in respects to inventory management without a sub so a few things.
1. This is in conflict of earlier promises that were made on ESO Live about the words in the article linked above.
2. The company hasn't resolved outstanding issues specific to xbox one and the crowns or DLC access under ESP Plus
3. Making any feature exclusive to a subscription with no other options partial or incomplete of the subscription feature is not a win nor is it an intelligent business practice specifically due to earlier statement made by the companies director
4. Anyone with basic economic and marketing knowledge would understand that subscriptions ARE NOT a preferred source of income. Actual cash is a preferred source. All a subscription does is create another study pattern to monitor a customer base. Once you factor in charge-backs, canceled CC, failed charges, customer service costs, etc. its nothing more than another form of payment. that's all it is
5. The real issue if that ZOS refuses to offer meaningful ESO Plus benefits so they've came up with this idea which is going to back-fire around June 20th 2016

1) The game will be exactly zero percent more difficult for you by not having a crafting bag. So you're categorically irrefutably wrong. His statement that they provide a way to save time is a testament to that. "We will GENERALLY make in-game variants..." Not always, not even the majority of the time. So stop.
5) Stop... Just please stop... I am actually an economist for a living and this is maybe the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. As a company, I can pay people to create stuff to feed one time purchases, that are inherently unreliable as to how they will impact revenues. Conversely, I could have a steady supply of income that I can rely on to make investment decisions, and spend next to zero in return as it has already been obligated. I can't count on you to buy a mount four months from now, but I can count on the money that I already have obligated to me through subscriptions in order to make investment decisions.

So stop. Seriously. You are embarrassing yourself.

@SwaminoNowlino
Have you even played PTS and Xbox One respectively?

This isn't an argument or debate its current state vs future state.
End of discussion.

As far as the comment of your perspective that I'm embarrassing myself? What are you referring to specifically. Detail those items as it's unclear in your comments.

I'm observing that your perspective is that of how you think and feel companies can operate excluding what the directors of the companies have committed to. A company whose words can't be trusted isn't a company but instead unethical and that's the direction of my comments. Again, it's not an opinionated perspective but observations of what was said and promised vs what is being done or lack thereof.

wayfarerx · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

The sub-benefit that I personally equate the crafting bags to is SWTOR's "Spring" benefit. In SWTOR, only subscribed players can sprint. To me, the philosophy is the same. SWTOR's subscription benefits are meant to annoy players into subscribing. ESO+ adding crafting bags are meant to do the same.

I feel like they're trying to manipulate non ESO+ players into subscribing... and that is never a good feeling to have while playing a videogame for fun.

That's not entirely correct (unless it was changed recently)... sprint is available to F2P players as well as subs in SWTOR, F2P players just need to get to level 10 to use it.
The two business models aren't really comparable, though. BioWare/EA basically annoys players into subscribing by reducing their experience point gain, limiting the number of crafting professions, limiting the number of times you can gain loot from flashpoint bosses (their version of dungons), etc.
ESO merely has convience features offered for subs (increased exp gain, reduced research times and now the crafting bag).
That's, in my opinion, a fundamental difference... while ESO offers incentives to subscribe, SWTOR annoys you into subscription.

I wasn't aware of that as I haven't played SWTOR, only looked up the benefits when making suggestions for ESO+ @Kendaric ... if that's true then the equivalency in ESO would be if, in ESO, we got the Crafting Bags after a certain level.

I wouldn't call placing a fix to a long perceived and complained about problem (inventory being horrible) behind a subscription an incentive. I would call that an annoyance. Especially considering the number crafting materials that have bene added to ESO with DLC expansions.

I agree that ESO+ up to now have included incentives to sub. Crafting bags change that. Crafting bags offer an advantage to ESO+ players and non ESO+ players have absolutely zero equivalency. That's the problem. We no longer have equal experiences with 2 ways to play.

I can't kill a few more of this or that to get the crafting bags like I can with the 10% bonuses.

I can't pay Crowns to get access to the crafting bags like I can the DLC.

There is no way for a non ESO+ member to gain an equivalent benefit.

If you don't agree that this is an issue then I cant' help you.

Your own statement reveals the inaccuracy in your thinking. You can't buy the 10% xp bonus in the crown store, so you have to spend some extra time killing more mobs for that xp. You can't buy the crafting bag in the crown store, so you have to spend some extra time shuffling mats between the bank and your characters, just like we have all been doing just fine for two years now.

Having this bag does not give you access to new crafting skills or materials, there is nothing I will be able to do with this bag that you will not be able to do without it. I will save time on the inventory shuffle, just like I do earning gold and killing mobs and researching crafting traits.

Maotti · May 2016

It's a huge convinience, and i love it. Finally the sub is gonna be worth it.

Gidorick · May 2016

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

How did the craft bag become "fundamental" suddenly when everyone has been getting by just fine for two years without them?

It's like that thing you didn't even know you couldn't live without until someone else had one.

Many of us have been complaining about inventory for the past two years @ShedsHisTail ?

Gidorick · May 2016

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

As a B2P customer who already owns all of the dlcs etc it wouldn't be worth it for me to sub, they'd all have been a waste of money if I subbed now so my decision is just to not purchase anything else from zo$ or support the development of game further, if B2P customers aren't wanted or needed anymore then they don't need any more of my cash.

This is pretty much how most of us feel @Tommy1979AtWar ... If ZOS was going to make subs pretty much a must a year after the B2P transition they should have just stuck with subs. It's shady and it's manipulative.

wayfarerx · May 2016

SneaK wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

BrotherChaz wrote: »

SneaK wrote: »

I have ESO+ and 100% support the OP. ZOS, sell this guy his crafting bag.

Thanks for posting. It seems likely my point will be lost to most. Thanks for the calm voice of reason. Respect.

Literally no good reason for any of these yahoos to be against your proposal. Even from a business standpoint with ZOS, they sell the bags they make more money, and make more people happy.

So if ZOS chooses to sell something for a flat fee as opposed to renting it month to month, they make more money? How much exactly do you expect them to charge for this bag as a one time fee?

Well I was picturing it being available to both, subscribers and buyers. I'd bet you'd also have a lot of subscribers buy it even though they're subs. Which would actually mean more subs spending their allotted crowns so more potential for said subs to buy more crowns for oh let's say, a wolf mount.

Many, many people have complained about the lack of benefits to ESO+ subscribers. Many, many people have unsubbed because they thought the benefits were not worth the cost (this very thread features numerous such anecdotes). There are now a lot of people who are resubbbing for this one benefit (again, they are posting in this thread).

ZOS found something to add to ESO+ to finally make it a compelling purchase for a lot of their customers and they will likely receive a massive windfall of subs from this one move. If you don't want to pay the price they are charging for it, that's fine, don't. However, pretending that buffing ESO+ and getting more subscriptions is not exactly the intent of the crafting bag is pretty myopic.

Not sure where I ever sounded interested in your reasoning.. I don't get why so many people are up in arms about it. I am sub and I'll probably continue to be, regardless of the bag. OP isn't and I understand why he wants his bag and support his reasoning.

Well if you don't want people to try and have a conversation with you, you might try not replying to their comments

Gidorick · May 2016

nimander99 wrote: »

Personally I think this is a straight up master stroke of brilliance on the part of whoever came up with this idea at Zenimax, that person need s a bonus!

Everyone is going to sub now, period.

It's not manipulative, it's not sneaky, it's not underhanded, it's business! And smart business at that.

Kudos ZOS on the crafting bags, mad kudos.

And this is coming from someone who has been an active subscriber since June 2014 and purchased the Collector Editions of each DLC.

I respect smart business moves.

I'm not going to sub @nimander99 ... I'm sure there are many others who won't. What's more there will a portion of those players that give up on ESO altogether. People don't like feeling like they are being taken advantage of.

It's a shrewd business move. Smart for the company, not for their customers.

CherryCake · May 2016

nimander99 wrote: »

Personally I think this is a straight up master stroke of brilliance on the part of whoever came up with this idea at Zenimax, that person need s a bonus!

Everyone is going to sub now, period.

It's not manipulative, it's not sneaky, it's not underhanded, it's business! And smart business at that.

Kudos ZOS on the crafting bags, mad kudos.

And this is coming from someone who has been an active subscriber since June 2014 and purchased the Collector Editions of each DLC.

I respect smart business moves.

I would respect them as well, but I can bet that in the future they will come with new ideas of using bank/bag space, maybe jewellery crafting, more armor that you need to fit somewhere, to the point that it might become pay to win, so certainly for now, it doesnt truly affect anyone, but they are going to keep contradicting themselves since:
- ESO is paid to play
- ESO became free to play
- ESO becomes pay to win.

Before somebody jumps, I am not saying they are pay to win now, people dont have any big advantage by having unlimited crafting bags, however they might come with extra perks in the future as to why subscribing will become necessary. They obviously cant go pay to play anymore, so they will just add things to the point that the game will be worth nothing without a subscription.

I sometimes feel as it they dont actually know what they are doing... I start to notice a trend with ZOS changing things around all the times. First with the subscription, not many people liked it, they removed it, now in a few years they will try to make people WANT to pay subscription otherwise the game will not be the same anymore, which defeats the whole purpose of going subscription free in the first place, then they make vet ranks, people dont like it, they remove vet ranks, maybe people will complain about CP system, they might change that as well... basically it just seems so unstable in a way.

Shifted of the conversation a bit, so just to clarify, I am not complaining you guys get that as a perk, on the contrary I am happy for you, because for the game quality and lag that we receive, paying monthly for it is really not worth it.

However, in a few years I might call the company either sneaky, or they dont know how to company xD.