Does nobody else see how wrong this is? (craft bags)

TheSpin

@BrotherChaz

I have been a strong supporter of crafting bags exclusively to ESO+ members and ultimately your post does not change my opinion, but you do bring up an extremely valid point.

If you purchased DLC because you felt you were getting a better value for your money versus purchasing a subscription, I totally sympathize with the fact that you feel cheated now that the better value is clearly eso+ with crafting bags. I would wager than you may have been eso+ from the start had you known and now if you subscribe now you will feel like you've wasted the crowns spent on DLC.

I totally get that, and I do think the 'right thing' to do would be to compensate players in that situation somehow. The fairest way would require some calculating, but using the DLC you purchased, the time you've played, and the total amount of crowns you spent, a fair reimbursement could be calculated.

newtinmpls

Gidorick wrote: »

I unsubed out of principal. ZOS said they wanted to go Buy2Play, I disagreed. I loved ESO being a sub based game.

I wanted (and still want) ESO to be a sub game. So I stayed subbed.

Gidorick wrote: »

Now ZOS is forcing me to make a choice

No.

They are choosing actions.

You then will choose your actions, same as all of us.

idk

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In short.....
-The bag should be a base game feature and the ability to obtain the bag should be in-line with:
-crowns
-in-game gold
-ESO Plus

There are a lot of arguments or opinions but bottom line is this. ZOS has moved away from their initial confirmation of what would be linked to a subscription and what would be in the crown store.

Also, the fact that ESO Plus doesn't work as it should on Xbox One, the bag or any other features should be exclusive to a sub.

How have they gone away with what they said as far as subscription and crown store? the BAG is convenience like literally if I could describe the bag I would say: a bag to conveniently store crafting items instead of having to visit the bank or mule alts.

The first and most obvious is what I mention as respects to Xbox One...this has been the case since day 1 and it still occurs as recent as April 28th 2016

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/03/17/crown-store-showcase
" Don't forget that members of ESO Plus receive a monthly allotment of crowns in addition to other in-game bonuses! "

The other concern is items that are locked behind a sub or crowns
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/02/12/the-road-ahead---february
"he most important thing to remember about Tamriel Unlimited's virtual currency system is that we're not adjusting the base game—it will be exactly the same game, with the same leveling pace, experience point gain, user interface, etc.
We're adding customization and convenience items in the Crown Store, but those will be added to the game as it is now; we're not going to make it harder for you to enjoy the game you already play to encourage you to use the Crown Store."

"Game Director Matt Firor explained that the base game will maintain "the same levelling pace, experience point gain, [and] user interface" it always has, and promised that it won't be made more difficult to play for those who don't spring for real-money items."

"An item in the Crown Store serves one of two purposes: It either provides a visual upgrade or distinction for your character, or it provides a way to save time at the expense of spending Crowns," he wrote. "When it comes to this second category of items, we will generally make in-game variants of similar items available either as drops or as player-craftable items as well."

Not sure if you're on PTS but ther

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Thank you for your oppinion. However I disagree. ESO has every right to provide these bags exclusively to subscribers and no need to bow threads like this one.

Anyone with basic economic and marketing knowledge would understand that subscriptions are the prefered source of income for a great many reasons. At that this carrot added to the ESO+ benefits is a big plus for marketing subscriptions.

In the end, crafting bag exclusive to ESO + is a win win for Zos. You can sub if you want to.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO just read right above....its not a matter of opinion according to my comments above. While others have input their opinions and such, when the director of any company goes public with statements, that company should always make decisions around those statements.

This literally makes the game more difficult in respects to inventory management without a sub so a few things.
1. This is in conflict of earlier promises that were made on ESO Live about the words in the article linked above.
2. The company hasn't resolved outstanding issues specific to xbox one and the crowns or DLC access under ESP Plus
3. Making any feature exclusive to a subscription with no other options partial or incomplete of the subscription feature is not a win nor is it an intelligent business practice specifically due to earlier statement made by the companies director
4. Anyone with basic economic and marketing knowledge would understand that subscriptions ARE NOT a preferred source of income. Actual cash is a preferred source. All a subscription does is create another study pattern to monitor a customer base. Once you factor in charge-backs, canceled CC, failed charges, customer service costs, etc. its nothing more than another form of payment. that's all it is
5. The real issue if that ZOS refuses to offer meaningful ESO Plus benefits so they've came up with this idea which is going to back-fire around June 20th 2016

1) The game will be exactly zero percent more difficult for you by not having a crafting bag. So you're categorically irrefutably wrong. His statement that they provide a way to save time is a testament to that. "We will GENERALLY make in-game variants..." Not always, not even the majority of the time. So stop.
5) Stop... Just please stop... I am actually an economist for a living and this is maybe the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. As a company, I can pay people to create stuff to feed one time purchases, that are inherently unreliable as to how they will impact revenues. Conversely, I could have a steady supply of income that I can rely on to make investment decisions, and spend next to zero in return as it has already been obligated. I can't count on you to buy a mount four months from now, but I can count on the money that I already have obligated to me through subscriptions in order to make investment decisions.


So stop. Seriously. You are embarrassing yourself.

@SwaminoNowlino
Have you even played PTS and Xbox One respectively?

This isn't an argument or debate its current state vs future state.
End of discussion.

As far as the comment of your perspective that I'm embarrassing myself? What are you referring to specifically. Detail those items as it's unclear in your comments.

I'm observing that your perspective is that of how you think and feel companies can operate excluding what the directors of the companies have committed to. A company whose words can't be trusted isn't a company but instead unethical and that's the direction of my comments. Again, it's not an opinionated perspective but observations of what was said and promised vs what is being done or lack thereof.

And this really has nothing to do with this conversation other than distraction.

ShedsHisTail

TheSpin wrote: »

I totally get that, and I do think the 'right thing' to do would be to compensate players in that situation somehow. The fairest way would require some calculating, but using the DLC you purchased, the time you've played, and the total amount of crowns you spent, a fair reimbursement could be calculated.

Wait... Why?

Why do you, @TheSpin , feel like the right thing to do is compensate non-subs for the past. They chose not to subscribe because they felt the better value was in not subbing. Giving them something now does not change what happened then. They got exactly what they chose to pay for back then.


That be like me saying, "Wait, non-subs get to keep the DLC when they buy it? I've been subbed for months and I'm only renting it, I deserve to own it like they do." I knew what I was paying for, I got the value I expected; just like people who made the opposite choice did.

This isn't a reward for past activity, this is an incentive for -future- activity. This isn't ZOS passing out rewards to subscribers. This is ZOS saying, "Here is a thing you can have if you subscribe."

It's nuanced, but it's different.

If I cancel my subscription today, I don't get a craft bag just because I've been subscribed for the last two years. My past decisions don't factor into this. Neither do those who have chosen not to subscribe to date. If the value has changed for them, then there is nothing stopping them from subscribing.

This isn't a retroactive reward.

Peekachu99

Subscriptions need more benefits, not universally shared ones. An emphatic "no" to the service being offered in the Crown Store.

Just pay the $15/ month or zip it.

NewBlacksmurf

Tavore1138 wrote: »

t

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In short.....
-The bag should be a base game feature and the ability to obtain the bag should be in-line with:
-crowns
-in-game gold
-ESO Plus

There are a lot of arguments or opinions but bottom line is this. ZOS has moved away from their initial confirmation of what would be linked to a subscription and what would be in the crown store.

Also, the fact that ESO Plus doesn't work as it should on Xbox One, the bag or any other features should be exclusive to a sub.

How have they gone away with what they said as far as subscription and crown store? the BAG is convenience like literally if I could describe the bag I would say: a bag to conveniently store crafting items instead of having to visit the bank or mule alts.

The first and most obvious is what I mention as respects to Xbox One...this has been the case since day 1 and it still occurs as recent as April 28th 2016

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/03/17/crown-store-showcase
" Don't forget that members of ESO Plus receive a monthly allotment of crowns in addition to other in-game bonuses! "

The other concern is items that are locked behind a sub or crowns
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/02/12/the-road-ahead---february
"he most important thing to remember about Tamriel Unlimited's virtual currency system is that we're not adjusting the base game—it will be exactly the same game, with the same leveling pace, experience point gain, user interface, etc.
We're adding customization and convenience items in the Crown Store, but those will be added to the game as it is now; we're not going to make it harder for you to enjoy the game you already play to encourage you to use the Crown Store."

"Game Director Matt Firor explained that the base game will maintain "the same levelling pace, experience point gain, [and] user interface" it always has, and promised that it won't be made more difficult to play for those who don't spring for real-money items."

"An item in the Crown Store serves one of two purposes: It either provides a visual upgrade or distinction for your character, or it provides a way to save time at the expense of spending Crowns," he wrote. "When it comes to this second category of items, we will generally make in-game variants of similar items available either as drops or as player-craftable items as well."

Not sure if you're on PTS but ther

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Thank you for your oppinion. However I disagree. ESO has every right to provide these bags exclusively to subscribers and no need to bow threads like this one.

Anyone with basic economic and marketing knowledge would understand that subscriptions are the prefered source of income for a great many reasons. At that this carrot added to the ESO+ benefits is a big plus for marketing subscriptions.

In the end, crafting bag exclusive to ESO + is a win win for Zos. You can sub if you want to.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO just read right above....its not a matter of opinion according to my comments above. While others have input their opinions and such, when the director of any company goes public with statements, that company should always make decisions around those statements.

This literally makes the game more difficult in respects to inventory management without a sub so a few things.
1. This is in conflict of earlier promises that were made on ESO Live about the words in the article linked above.
2. The company hasn't resolved outstanding issues specific to xbox one and the crowns or DLC access under ESP Plus
3. Making any feature exclusive to a subscription with no other options partial or incomplete of the subscription feature is not a win nor is it an intelligent business practice specifically due to earlier statement made by the companies director
4. Anyone with basic economic and marketing knowledge would understand that subscriptions ARE NOT a preferred source of income. Actual cash is a preferred source. All a subscription does is create another study pattern to monitor a customer base. Once you factor in charge-backs, canceled CC, failed charges, customer service costs, etc. its nothing more than another form of payment. thats all it is
5. The real issue if that ZOS refuses to offer meaningful ESO Plus benefits so they've came up with this idea which is going to back-fire around June 20th 2016

1. No they promised not to make it harder and not to adjust it that way and they have not, if you do not sub then your inventory options will be exactly the same after DB drops as they are today and have been all through the games life. Subscribers will certainly find life more vonvenient but non subscribers will not lose anything real - this is purely a psychological loss to you, you arvecperiencing bag envy.
2. Honestly do not know enough about these specific platform issues to comment.
3. A predictable revenue stream is very good for a company and allows them to make plans without having to guess how many of us will buy the latest senche reskin. If bags get people to pay their pretty low monthly sub then it could boost the game. If not then I would ecpect a very expensive crown item to add bags in 6-9 months.
4. As someone who has studied evonomics and worked in marketing I can say you are mistaken - steady revenue streams allow companies to make forward plans. It is why firms will make a big deal about their forward order books when announcing results to the markets and why firms who can point at solid future revenue are also solid investments.
5. Why June 20th?

@Tavore1138

1. Please read the article and then watch the ESO live episode that same timeframe. Literally watch it and listen to what Matt and the staff say. In your comment you literally write out my point. In context to the removal of the subscription requirement and the addition of the crown store thoe comments are not being followed. Download the PTS and go play it this week.

Playing PTS without ESO plus vs with ESO plus specific to the crafting bags is on average 100-250 inventory slots or more freed up. For me it's over 450 so it's literally harder to play the game without the subscription which is the only way o get the crafting bad. At the base of the rotten comments, that's one point. But listen to the other dialogue around paid items vs in-game where intially anything "paid for" was to also be available without paying. Now the paid items are to be more convenient but not exclusive by type, visual, feature and effects.

Your comments about a predictable revenue stream....have you actually run a real business or just learned about from someone else's theories. I ask because I've actually run a real business for over 5 years. It was internet based where I sold products and services nationwide. I had deliveries setup, dealing with website fees, maintenance, subscribers and buyers, etc. While in theory colleges and seminars suggest subscribers are predictable, they actually aren't.

The truth is it's more likely that someone will forget to cancel their subscription or not want to bother with it until there is a lack of funds. As the business owner, you deal with charge backs, fraud claims and solemn credit card transactions as well as insufficient funds. Nothing about it is predictable. Also, just in case this wasn't taught, visa, master card, PayPal, square, etc all have fees associated with them just like PSn and Xbox One. Then there is the reality that credit cards aren't real money so you're waiting on different financial institutions to release funds on whatever schedules they have domestic and international also by time zone.

It's great that you studied someone else's ideas (economics) but the real world isn't that reality. Firms who point towards steady revenue streams aren't doing it with subscribers, they are doing it with stocks, and investments as well as other budgets. Real money is cash, everything else is literally "projections" and "goals".

This is where all of you who keep suggesting that subscriptions are good for the company are mistaken. Subscriptions are good when the investor meeting asks for proof of how many active customers they have and the revenue stream cause they can "project" a theoretic value but it's nothing more than a guess. That's not an operating budget or company earnings. Those are calculated differently usually approx 45-60 after "X" dates.

As far as June 20th, that is approx the amount of days after the console get the update and the time it takes for ppl to sub and then cancel their renewals. The whole point of launching on consoles was to reach other markets but reality is, that those platforms don't create the same profit margins as PC for ZOS. When we "buy" ESO plus on Xbox one, often times if it's not PayPal, it doesn't actually hit until 3-5 days later so June 20th and there-after is the date of reality.

Just stay around and watch the forums.

ShedsHisTail

Also, what is this crap about feeling like you "wasted crowns on DLC?"

You didn't waste Crowns... or money.

ESO went subscription free around, what March or April last year, right? Let's call it April.

In that time subscribers have shelled out $194.87. (13 months @ $14.99 per)

To buy all of the "free" DLC released so far you'd need 7,500 Crowns. Assuming you made the least wise purchase available and bought your crowns in increments of 750 each; that's a total cash investment of $79.99. Your out of pocket cost is less than half that of a consistent subscriber.

But! You say, subscribers get 1,500 Crowns per months to play with. And that's true.
1,500 Crowns per month is 18,000 Crowns for the year. Nice.

However, keep in mind that your smaller monetary investment means you have money left over to buy more Crowns with; $114.88 to be exact. With which you could purchase another 14,750 Crowns. (with about 2 bucks left over.)

So... Let do a little math, see who comes out better.

19,500 Crowns for Subscribers
-14,750 Crowns for non-subscribers
= 4,750 Crowns left over, Subscribers got the better deal....

But wait, there's more. Subscribers have to live with the constant ultimatum of losing it all if the cancel their subscription. To be on truly equal footing, both parties would have to be bound by the same commitments as well as monetary investments. So let's cancel that subscription and purchase all those DLCs we have to now and...

Wait, we're 2,750 Crowns short.

So, there ya go. For the same monetary investment:
Non-Subscribers can OWN all DLCs and have 14,750 Crowns
Subscribers can RENT all DLC and have 19,500 Crowns and a commitment to continue subscribing
Or, Subscribers can purchase the DLC anyway and have 12,000 Crowns left over with no further commitment.

Pretty sure that's right... Someone check my math.

EDIT: Forgot it was May, been 13 months. Adjusted math.

Personofsecrets

crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.

ShedsHisTail

Incidentally, if you were a non subscriber and bought all the DLC at once an made wiser decisions, you could pick them all up for about $65.00 and have 1,000 Crowns to spare.

That really just skews the math even further toward the advantage of the non-subscriber, I'll let you guys sort that out if you want.

newtinmpls

I'm having a crabby day at work and this thread brings a smile to my face.

It's such a first world problem.

ShedsHisTail

newtinmpls wrote: »

I'm having a crabby day at work and this thread brings a smile to my face.

It's such a first world problem.

Yeah....

Alurria

Personofsecrets wrote: »

crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.

I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.

Vangy

Horse: Neighhhh.... Please staph im dead X.X

Forum trolls: *beat* *beat* *beat* *beat*

Horse: X.X

BigBragg

I don't see how offering an account upgrade crafting bag would detract from those who choose to subscribe to ESO+

ShedsHisTail

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.

I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.

@pieceofyarnb14_ESO
You need to rephrase and realize he'll be -making- a choice, just like subscribers will.
His past choices don't matter here, only the future.

It's not a loyalty reward, it's an incentive.

Vaoh

BrotherChaz wrote: »

First of all this post is not intended for ESO+ customers, you have no worries... Also please note: Where I use all caps for some words it is not intended as shouting. It is for EMPHASIS only to make a point. No offense is intended. I hope that this opinion post will not be a source of flaming posts... I just had to say something about a topic I feel strongly about.

But for those of us who have spent a serious ammount of real $$$ on buying the game, all add-on world expansions, mounts, costumes, personal banker, etc. etc.. This needs to be an option available to us also.

The crafting resource bags being available to JUST eso+ people is wrong.
Im sorry but This is a major item(fundumental even) that ALL CHARACTERS need, especially with NEW CRAFTING SYSTEMS/ITEMS being added with the new expansion.

I love the game but this is JUST Wrong. Having to get eso+ JUST to get CRAFTING BAGS feels a little bit like a slap in the face to those like me wh who have spent WAY in excess of the ammount that getting eso+ would have been ... I still have additional items (personal Merchant, New Assasins expansion etc.) I had planned to buy right away...

Sadly despite all the upcoming changes, which I have no problem with, this one most necessary item not being available to ALL LOYAL customers just does not seem right. I love the game but this one thing... well it just is not right.

I can not justify buying more at this point .. please keep in mind I have no problem with eso+ people getting it for free with subscription... My point is that those who have supported the game by purchasing everything up to this point should be allowed to get the much needed option also. Sell it as an option I would buy it even if it were 2000 crowns or whatever.

Sorry it was so long... I just had to say something. I hope this oversight(in my opinion) gets resolved. I hate it when a favorite game becomes less fun because of what the company does to its structure. Its my greatest hope this will not be the case here.

For those who want to say "Well just get eso+" I have to reply: think about it... After buying ALL the addons it just isnt fair to then FEEL FORCED to go mwith eso+ just for craft bags. What about all that money spent on the expansions? Would we be entitled to a refund since these purchased items are now included free? No there needs to be some fair mindedness and common sence applied here.

Thanks for listening. Please no flamers. I just had to get this out. Peace.

Exactly. However, you will find few to agree with you here. This is the single topic I have ever seen in which the Forums community is very biased. The majority are ESO+ members and I do not blame them for wanting more benefits, as supporting the game through subbing loyally is no longer enough. In game, the majority opinion is absolutely different.

If I had known since release how much time and money I would be investing into ESO, I would have subbed from the first day too. After buying Crowns, buying each DLC, mounts, pets, costumes.... it does not make sense to Sub anymore. That is how most all on console buy their content as well.

Crafting bags should've been like any other DLC, free to ESO+ members but priced to those who aren't subbed.

It is why the topic of ESO+ exclusivity is rarely ever brought up, and would not have been brought up if ZOS announced it as a Crown Store item (free to ESO+, priced for non-members). Now that it is being implemented as a Subscriber-only benefit, they want to guard it.

With the ever expanding arsenal of Mats, it is legitimately a big deal to Subs if everyone has the opportunity to ditch their pack mules, and not just them.

ZOS played it smart business wise for sure though. An EA-esque move. I may even sub for one month to store my stuff. I just hope crafting bags can be ignored when Player Housing arrives.

Vangy

@Doncellius subbing for one month won't work. Stacks I think are locked once you let subscription lapse. So let's say you have a stack of 1000000 silk in bag. If you craft at a station you'd need to withdraw that whole 1000000 stack. You can't just withdraw let's say 50.

ShedsHisTail

Deleted: Misread the post I was replying to.

Vaoh

Vangy wrote: »

@Doncellius subbing for one month won't work. Stacks I think are locked once you let subscription lapse. So let's say you have a stack of 1000000 silk in bag. If you craft at a station you'd need to withdraw that whole 1000000 stack. You can't just withdraw let's say 50.

My plan was to probably get a Sub for one month to put everything in the Crafting Bag.

So your saying if I have.... 3026 Voidstone Ingots, I'd have to pull them all out even if I want to withdraw like 14 of them?

I thought I could deposit and withdraw as normal until the Sub ran out, then I would not be able to deposit.

Alurria

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.

I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.

@pieceofyarnb14_ESO
You need to rephrase and realize he'll be -making- a choice, just like subscribers will.
His past choices don't matter here, only the future.

It's not a loyalty reward, it's an incentive.

Okay...let's break down what he said...craft bag exclusivity is what is wrong with ESO AND the crown store...so if both are what's wrong how is ZOS suppose to make money? Choice are those things we make and have to live with the outcome, are you saying he's going to vote with his wallet? Because as it stands now nothing is changing for him. He or she has the option to subscribe to get the bag or not. I don't see a problem here.

ShedsHisTail

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.

I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.

@pieceofyarnb14_ESO
You need to rephrase and realize he'll be -making- a choice, just like subscribers will.
His past choices don't matter here, only the future.

It's not a loyalty reward, it's an incentive.

Okay...let's break down what he said...craft bag exclusivity is what is wrong with ESO AND the crown store...so if both are what's wrong how is ZOS suppose to make money? Choice are those things we make and have to live with the outcome, are you saying he's going to vote with his wallet? Because as it stands now nothing is changing for him. He or she has the option to subscribe to get the bag or not. I don't see a problem here.

No, you're fine.
I was just being cheeky.

Alurria

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

pieceofyarnb14_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

crafting bag exclusivity is everything that is wrong with the subscription system and crown store. It is just the next stop on the slippery slope to more pay to win.

I totally disagree with you, you are not being excluded you are making a choice to not subscribe. You need to rephrase and realize you made a choice just like subscribers made a choice.

@pieceofyarnb14_ESO
You need to rephrase and realize he'll be -making- a choice, just like subscribers will.
His past choices don't matter here, only the future.

It's not a loyalty reward, it's an incentive.

Okay...let's break down what he said...craft bag exclusivity is what is wrong with ESO AND the crown store...so if both are what's wrong how is ZOS suppose to make money? Choice are those things we make and have to live with the outcome, are you saying he's going to vote with his wallet? Because as it stands now nothing is changing for him. He or she has the option to subscribe to get the bag or not. I don't see a problem here.

No, you're fine.
I was just being cheeky.

Welllll in that case let me turn the other cheek

Savos_Saren

There's obviously a need for subscribers vs people that only purchase DLC. I'm guessing that the accountants for ESO see subscriptions as a necessity to ensure that the company makes a profit (and can continue to fund future content)... so they want to encourage people to subscribe. Part of the perks to subscriptions is the crowns, increased experience, and now a crafting bag.

If subscribing to ESO is more beneficial to Zenimax Studios in the long run- they are going to continue subscriptions and offering perks. If you can't understand why a business would do that, then perhaps you should focus more on education than video games.

Either way- we're all reaping the benefits of what we pay for. Subscribers get what they've agreed to. DLC purchasers get what they were willing to purchase. Win/Win. If a subscriber suddenly feels like they're not getting their money's worth- they can always unsub. If a DLC purchaser feels like they're not getting their money's worth... they can always subscribe. Everyone's offered the same perks... you just have to decide what you're willing to pay.

Necrelios

A lot of people seem to be missing the OP's point. That point being, ZoS should make craft bags available for purchase, in addition to being made available to ESO+ members. ZoS get's paid, customer gets crafting bag, and ESO+ members still get there perks in a way that doesn't slap other loyal customers in the face. It's a win+win situation, and everyone is happy. It is the only reasonable way crafting bags should be implemented.

ShedsHisTail

Necrelios wrote: »

A lot of people seem to be missing the OP's point. That point being, ZoS should make craft bags available for purchase, in addition to being made available to ESO+ members. ZoS get's paid, customer gets crafting bag, and ESO+ members still get there perks in a way that doesn't slap other loyal customers in the face. It's a win+win situation, and everyone is happy. It is the only reasonable way crafting bags should be implemented.

But that's not true.
As outlined in my math above, subscribers run in a state of perpetual deficit in comparison with non subscribers. The ammount of deficit changes depending on how much time has passed between DLCS, but the fact remains.

Crafting bags are an incentive to those willing to accept and commit to that deficit.

In raw Quantity per Crown,non subs always run cheaper than subs. And a one-time purchase won't change that.

newtinmpls

jaburns wrote: »

Either way- we're all reaping the benefits of what we pay for. Subscribers get what they've agreed to. DLC purchasers get what they were willing to purchase. Win/Win. If a subscriber suddenly feels like they're not getting their money's worth- they can always unsub. If a DLC purchaser feels like they're not getting their money's worth... they can always subscribe. Everyone's offered the same perks... you just have to decide what you're willing to pay.

#yourmaturityisruinin'my'mersion

Farorin

How can people be all "I spend heaps of money on ESO regularly, I deserve craft bags, but I refuse to spend a small amount of that money on a subscription."? It just doesn't make sense.

RocDonald

While I am an ESO plus subscriber, I still think that craft bags should be purchasable. After all, we already get a XP boost not to mention free crowns every month. Although, big picture, more subscribers (maybe) = more money for ZoS = better functioning game (maybe?). Idk, I'm 50/50 I guess.

Taisynn

Vangy wrote: »

Horse: Neighhhh.... Please staph im dead X.X

Forum trolls: *beat* *beat* *beat* *beat*

Horse: X.X

I just laughed so hard I snorted. Good job!

NewBlacksmurf

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In short.....
-The bag should be a base game feature and the ability to obtain the bag should be in-line with:
-crowns
-in-game gold
-ESO Plus

There are a lot of arguments or opinions but bottom line is this. ZOS has moved away from their initial confirmation of what would be linked to a subscription and what would be in the crown store.

Also, the fact that ESO Plus doesn't work as it should on Xbox One, the bag or any other features should be exclusive to a sub.

How have they gone away with what they said as far as subscription and crown store? the BAG is convenience like literally if I could describe the bag I would say: a bag to conveniently store crafting items instead of having to visit the bank or mule alts.

The first and most obvious is what I mention as respects to Xbox One...this has been the case since day 1 and it still occurs as recent as April 28th 2016

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/03/17/crown-store-showcase
" Don't forget that members of ESO Plus receive a monthly allotment of crowns in addition to other in-game bonuses! "

The other concern is items that are locked behind a sub or crowns
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2015/02/12/the-road-ahead---february
"he most important thing to remember about Tamriel Unlimited's virtual currency system is that we're not adjusting the base game—it will be exactly the same game, with the same leveling pace, experience point gain, user interface, etc.
We're adding customization and convenience items in the Crown Store, but those will be added to the game as it is now; we're not going to make it harder for you to enjoy the game you already play to encourage you to use the Crown Store."

"Game Director Matt Firor explained that the base game will maintain "the same levelling pace, experience point gain, [and] user interface" it always has, and promised that it won't be made more difficult to play for those who don't spring for real-money items."

"An item in the Crown Store serves one of two purposes: It either provides a visual upgrade or distinction for your character, or it provides a way to save time at the expense of spending Crowns," he wrote. "When it comes to this second category of items, we will generally make in-game variants of similar items available either as drops or as player-craftable items as well."

Not sure if you're on PTS but ther

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Thank you for your oppinion. However I disagree. ESO has every right to provide these bags exclusively to subscribers and no need to bow threads like this one.

Anyone with basic economic and marketing knowledge would understand that subscriptions are the prefered source of income for a great many reasons. At that this carrot added to the ESO+ benefits is a big plus for marketing subscriptions.

In the end, crafting bag exclusive to ESO + is a win win for Zos. You can sub if you want to.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO just read right above....its not a matter of opinion according to my comments above. While others have input their opinions and such, when the director of any company goes public with statements, that company should always make decisions around those statements.

This literally makes the game more difficult in respects to inventory management without a sub so a few things.
1. This is in conflict of earlier promises that were made on ESO Live about the words in the article linked above.
2. The company hasn't resolved outstanding issues specific to xbox one and the crowns or DLC access under ESP Plus
3. Making any feature exclusive to a subscription with no other options partial or incomplete of the subscription feature is not a win nor is it an intelligent business practice specifically due to earlier statement made by the companies director
4. Anyone with basic economic and marketing knowledge would understand that subscriptions ARE NOT a preferred source of income. Actual cash is a preferred source. All a subscription does is create another study pattern to monitor a customer base. Once you factor in charge-backs, canceled CC, failed charges, customer service costs, etc. its nothing more than another form of payment. that's all it is
5. The real issue if that ZOS refuses to offer meaningful ESO Plus benefits so they've came up with this idea which is going to back-fire around June 20th 2016

1) The game will be exactly zero percent more difficult for you by not having a crafting bag. So you're categorically irrefutably wrong. His statement that they provide a way to save time is a testament to that. "We will GENERALLY make in-game variants..." Not always, not even the majority of the time. So stop.
5) Stop... Just please stop... I am actually an economist for a living and this is maybe the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. As a company, I can pay people to create stuff to feed one time purchases, that are inherently unreliable as to how they will impact revenues. Conversely, I could have a steady supply of income that I can rely on to make investment decisions, and spend next to zero in return as it has already been obligated. I can't count on you to buy a mount four months from now, but I can count on the money that I already have obligated to me through subscriptions in order to make investment decisions.


So stop. Seriously. You are embarrassing yourself.

@SwaminoNowlino
Have you even played PTS and Xbox One respectively?

This isn't an argument or debate its current state vs future state.
End of discussion.

As far as the comment of your perspective that I'm embarrassing myself? What are you referring to specifically. Detail those items as it's unclear in your comments.

I'm observing that your perspective is that of how you think and feel companies can operate excluding what the directors of the companies have committed to. A company whose words can't be trusted isn't a company but instead unethical and that's the direction of my comments. Again, it's not an opinionated perspective but observations of what was said and promised vs what is being done or lack thereof.

And this really has nothing to do with this conversation other than distraction.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO
Read the prior comments as the entire conversation has everything to do with it. Not sure if you took a moment to read it before u replied