Kaspy wrote: »

Well, if I understand the OP correctly the complaint is rather that it is nearly impossible to get a group if you're not experienced (=can show achievement of completing this dungeon with no death, speed, and oh yes, something like stormproof might also help) rather than not being able to complete it. This is very much true, it is enough to take a stroll through the undaunted zone on the IC pledge days to see that pretty much everyone wants experienced players only. Even in guilds there a few (if any) players prepared to run those with players who don't have achievements. I won't even mention the unability to get a group through LFG tools.
Of course it is hard to become experienced if no one let's you experience those dungeons first...

I think we all understand that, but a lot of people here have already suggested going in with friends or guild mates. Why would you expect, that strangers took their time to explain something to you? I think with proper explanation and some wiping, the dungeons take approximately >=30 minutes more than usual. Why would I (or others) invest that time to help random people?

That's exactly what guilds are for. Helping and teaching each other and doing stuff together.

You didnt get everything in an mmo in one month and youre qqing?
Besides, you can do these dungeons with lower rank gear. When these dungeons were released, vr16 gear was really expensive, and almost no one had that Kena set and average cp rank was much lower... But still people were able to beat it. Not to mention that the difficulty was tuned down several times sinse release.
Not everything should be beaten of first try, there should be some goals. These dungeons do require teamwork, but you're fooling yourself if you think that theyre impossible without top notch gear. If I was able to dps them as not very experienced wood elf mage dd with purple vr14 sets, you can do that for sure. As I said, the difficulty has been nerfed.

Just scale it to v1 and rinse it of you only want the keys.

Che wrote: »

Greydir wrote: »

So your Problem in all seriousness is: You Play a mere month and have Problems completing the Hardest 4 Person Content in the game.
Reason one you say is: You do not have the Gear
Solution: Get usefull Crafted gear. Everyone can Wear a 5 Pice and an additional 3-4 Piece Set. With a little bit of optimizing it is Possible without a major hitch to Complete these Dungeons. The Monster Setpieces and other collectible Setpieces are additions to Max out your char, they are not Strictly needed to complete these Dungeons
Reason two you give is: You do not have the Group
Solution: If you are in a guild, do not offer money for Farmruns, if your guild collects money from you for Farmruns, leave that guild. In my opinion you should ask - politely - if some group may take you with them and explain the mechanics and workings of the dungeon to you. Make it clear, that you wish to get better, and not that your only objective is, to complete the dungeon by being carried by others. That is something that happens if you offer Money to people to carry you through a dungeon.
Reason three you give is: You do not have the Build
Solution: Ask People for advice, inform yourself, and think for yourself. The best cookie cutter build does not help, if you can not utilize it.

(Nearly) Everyone Sucked as they began playing. Getting better and finishing harder content should be a gradual and rewarding experience. This is the problem for many of the more experienced players, they do not have any more content (except maybe the vMoL. but thats only for the raidplayers) to give them this gradual and rewarding experience. Therefore be happy to have an actual challenge in front of you.

Thank you for an adequate response. But I still do not understand why the golden key included these two difficult dungeons.

Simple answer is they want people to play the content they made that lives behind a paywall to make money, which is kind of the point of producing a game. But they also reward you for the increased difficulty by rewarding two keys for completing them. If it is too hard, then do it on normal for a silver key and learn the mechanics.

My best advice would be to get the appropriate gear and find 3 other people who also have not done it and work to learn it together. This will be much better in the long term than getting carried through by elite players. You'll learn it and eventually master it and be in a position to give other folks advice.

Kaspy wrote: »

DschiPeunt wrote: »

I think we all understand that,

You must have missed the 3/4 of the 'L2P' & 'vIC are teh easiest' posts then.

but a lot of people here have already suggested going in with friends or guild mates. Why would you expect, that strangers took their time to explain something to you? I think with proper explanation and some wiping, the dungeons take approximately >=30 minutes more than usual. Why would I (or others) invest that time to help random people?

That's exactly what guilds are for. Helping and teaching each other and doing stuff together.

And as I pointed out even in guilds people tend to prefer (or do exclusively) run with 'experienced' players only.
Of course, those dungeons are getting a nerf, which I guess is pretty much the effect of such 'policies'.

Well, its not rude in this case, you actually need to learn the mechanics of these dungeons. If you follow them, you're golden, even if the dps is not top notch. The only dps races in these dungeons only require around 12k from every dd (on vr16) and even less if healer and tank are helping a bit.
Also, if you find a group to do them once, you're experienced too. Most of people do not mean "you must be able to do this with your eyes closed" when they ask for exp party. They just dont have time or dont want to explain mechanics, and 1-2 runs are enough for this.

An obvious answer to the question of "why complain, it's so easy!" comes to mind when you see the ghost town of Undaunted areas come Imperial DLC Pledges days: if it was so easy for the average player, then the only groups wouldn't be ones demanding experienced players only.

Frankly I'd prefer said dungeons weren't Pledges at all, if only because they're DLC locked and every time they're the Pledges I can't even run them. I thought Undaunted Pledges were a base game update, why shove in the DLC ones and lock players out? Not like they're not going to be run at all outside Pledges....

Don't run it with people that don't know what they are doing was asked to help with kena fight after they kicked a person from the group. The tank had 0 mitigation couldn't hold agro and just ran around the map like a fool. Find people that know what they are doing and t will go smooth

@Che False mate yesterday I encountered a group via group finder who didn't know what to do after the 2nd boss and I showed them and guess what after dying so many times leaving to get more repair kits we completed the dungeon. It just takes that person to say w/e I'll give it a shot. That was for ICP when I do WGT I'll do the same thing if I'm not crunch on time; I've got no problems with showing people the ropes.

One thing I think ZoS should do is give a tutorial video when in these dungeons for those who haven't completed it. It'll go over recommended gear/stat values and go over mechanics of the fight because that was the issue yesterday since on the 2nd boss they weren't familiar with the mechanics and after going over it trial and error 3rd time it was a clean run.

Just pugged a DD and a tank and did gold key with them. Tank had never been in WGT, didn't have DPS gear for the planar so we struggled a bit there, but Kena only took 3 attempts to complete in hard mode, and we reached the last phase every time.

These are easy dungeons, they just need you to know WTF you're doing

people without (...) experience - gain experience.

How does one do that for a Vet Dungeon without running the Vet Dungeon if no-one will take you because you haven't done it before? That's a bit of a paradox: "We won't run with you until you're experienced, but you won't get experienced until someone runs with you".

Or heck, where are these "Dungeoneering" guilds that apparently exist? Do you just ask random PUG's hoping someone will take you?

Transairion wrote: »

people without (...) experience - gain experience.

How does one do that for a Vet Dungeon without running the Vet Dungeon if no-one will take you because you haven't done it before? That's a bit of a paradox: "We won't run with you until you're experienced, but you won't get experienced until someone runs with you".

Or heck, where are these "Dungeoneering" guilds that apparently exist? Do you just ask random PUG's hoping someone will take you?

Its group content, as group content its natural to assume the OP is playing with guild members interested in the same group content. Lets not pretend the OP is standing on a roof somewhere shouting to PuGs "teach me!" "teach me!". He is (or should join) a guild dedicated to the PvE aspect of eso and from personal experience I will tell you those types of environments have IC runs going constantly.

kuro-dono wrote: »

WGT and Prison require no ts at all. just before each boss understand mechanics to clear them out, and for special mechanics part like pinion boss choose who use pinion and so on its loads easier when you dont need to guess who is going to close pinion.

ICP final boss is amazingly easy just wee unlucky moments can arrive but overall its easy.
White gold tower i notice regularly how rookies cant bother to roll dodge or they try to "out run" the lighting wall when tiny movements towards the barrier instead would save you. Roll dodge completely avoids the dmg but just hold block and walk towards it and you pass tru it without death and wasting lots of stamina. Average Healer should anywya have so much mana that healing you once should not be too biggie.

Prison is just 33% longer dungeon, and none of its bosses is mad hard. WEll ok i forgot the flesh astro sculptor boss, but even he is easy Even with the change into the phase when he starts summoning flesh astronachs you can still keep nuking boss, its just SLOW.

Common this flesh kill u in single hit, u need very good DPS with good AOE damage...

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

WGT and Prison require no ts at all. just before each boss understand mechanics to clear them out, and for special mechanics part like pinion boss choose who use pinion and so on its loads easier when you dont need to guess who is going to close pinion.

ICP final boss is amazingly easy just wee unlucky moments can arrive but overall its easy.
White gold tower i notice regularly how rookies cant bother to roll dodge or they try to "out run" the lighting wall when tiny movements towards the barrier instead would save you. Roll dodge completely avoids the dmg but just hold block and walk towards it and you pass tru it without death and wasting lots of stamina. Average Healer should anywya have so much mana that healing you once should not be too biggie.

Prison is just 33% longer dungeon, and none of its bosses is mad hard. WEll ok i forgot the flesh astro sculptor boss, but even he is easy Even with the change into the phase when he starts summoning flesh astronachs you can still keep nuking boss, its just SLOW.

Common this flesh kill u in single hit, u need very good DPS with good AOE damage...

This is just not true. If you can kill a single flesh atro in time, you have enough dps to complete it if you follow the mechanics properly. And there is no need for good aoe dps. All big trash groups can be skipped without suiciding and no boss fight requires aoe. You only need aoe if you decide to ignore certain mechanics.

Transairion wrote: »

people without (...) experience - gain experience.

How does one do that for a Vet Dungeon without running the Vet Dungeon if no-one will take you because you haven't done it before? That's a bit of a paradox: "We won't run with you until you're experienced, but you won't get experienced until someone runs with you".

Or heck, where are these "Dungeoneering" guilds that apparently exist? Do you just ask random PUG's hoping someone will take you?

Disclaimer - I run ONLY WITH PUGS, because I'm too antisocial to wait for other/any guildies and I basically play in a gap between Aussies going to sleep and Murricans sipping their coffee.

First step: Git gud.
Know your playstyle, know your rotation, know your build. Learn how game works, what you can do and what you can't, have an open "I'm learning something new each day and that makes me a human being" mindset.
My muscle memory is so good that you can wake me up at 4am and I'll still be able to know that pointing finger is Surprise Attack and pinkie is a Flying Blade :P

Second step: Train group content
Right now you can 2man every normal dungeon, but some people like to do it in old way. So jump into normal dungeon and try to heal peeps with your new-uber-pro made from scratch healing rotation.

Third step: Progress through group content
If you're comfortable with normal dungeons and you know how more-or-less Trinity works, try something harder. Veteran Spindleclutch is not hard, but as a vet dungeon it's not walk in the park (assuming you are in "I CAN DUNGEONZ!" phase) so you can verify if your super-uber-pro made from scratch healing rotation is truly that good. Or maybe you need to adjust some skills for different encounters? Remember - "I'm learning something new each day and that makes me a human being".

Fourth step: Progress moar!
Now I'm basically answering your question. How to NOT get kicked from vWGT group? Well, you kicked Valkyn in his Skorias, no one is Guarding The Engine anymore, and Daedroths are now your pets, not Rilis'. So why would anyone kick you?

When I was first time on Veteran Imperial City Prison, I just normaly said: guys, I'm here first time, BUT:
- I've been on normal mode 20 times.
- I'm almost Deadlands Adept because every group is swimming through lava all the time and I can't kill those flaming skellies.
- Molag Kena is My Armor.

Then we jumped into TS and we did it. Yeah, with like 20 wipes here and there, but it WAS fun, and awesome!

Next step?
I assume it will be like: "Hi guys, I have never been in Sanctum Ophidia, but dis little hoarvor there is my companion named Paskuda, so lemme in! "