Daily in vWGT and vICP. Are you kidding me?

DschiPeunt · May 2016

Kaspy wrote: »

Well, if I understand the OP correctly the complaint is rather that it is nearly impossible to get a group if you're not experienced (=can show achievement of completing this dungeon with no death, speed, and oh yes, something like stormproof might also help) rather than not being able to complete it. This is very much true, it is enough to take a stroll through the undaunted zone on the IC pledge days to see that pretty much everyone wants experienced players only. Even in guilds there a few (if any) players prepared to run those with players who don't have achievements. I won't even mention the unability to get a group through LFG tools.
Of course it is hard to become experienced if no one let's you experience those dungeons first...

I think we all understand that, but a lot of people here have already suggested going in with friends or guild mates. Why would you expect, that strangers took their time to explain something to you? I think with proper explanation and some wiping, the dungeons take approximately >=30 minutes more than usual. Why would I (or others) invest that time to help random people?

That's exactly what guilds are for. Helping and teaching each other and doing stuff together.

Suru · May 2016

Che wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

If you are a Magicka DPS, you can craft Julianos and Torugs Pact and have all the gear you need.

Yes, i know it, this gear is in the process of learning: 6 trait Julianos It will be ready in a 3 days, nirn sword for Torugs pact will be ready in 3 days too, nirn staff will be ready in a 7 days. But I need to do daily today, What should I do?

You don't do the daily. Simple. Its just two days out of the week and in a week those two dungeons will be laughably easy due to nerfs so you dont ever have to worry about those two dungeons being the daily again. I realize how it can be frustrating and I admire your dedication. /Holdshand

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

You didnt get everything in an mmo in one month and youre qqing?
Besides, you can do these dungeons with lower rank gear. When these dungeons were released, vr16 gear was really expensive, and almost no one had that Kena set and average cp rank was much lower... But still people were able to beat it. Not to mention that the difficulty was tuned down several times sinse release.
Not everything should be beaten of first try, there should be some goals. These dungeons do require teamwork, but you're fooling yourself if you think that theyre impossible without top notch gear. If I was able to dps them as not very experienced wood elf mage dd with purple vr14 sets, you can do that for sure. As I said, the difficulty has been nerfed.

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

Che wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

find a guild willing to help with the learning curv or players like you trying it for the first time.

The guild also take only with experience, I even offered 300k gold for the help to get a Head piece.

Would be more helpful if you told us your server and platform. If you on PC/EU, I can recommend you a guild

DRXHarbinger · May 2016

Just scale it to v1 and rinse it of you only want the keys.

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Just scale it to v1 and rinse it of you only want the keys.

Also a solution... I see people downscaling for speedruns pretty often.
But joining a decent would still solve many pug related problems.

SwaminoNowlino · May 2016

Che wrote: »

Greydir wrote: »

So your Problem in all seriousness is: You Play a mere month and have Problems completing the Hardest 4 Person Content in the game.
Reason one you say is: You do not have the Gear
Solution: Get usefull Crafted gear. Everyone can Wear a 5 Pice and an additional 3-4 Piece Set. With a little bit of optimizing it is Possible without a major hitch to Complete these Dungeons. The Monster Setpieces and other collectible Setpieces are additions to Max out your char, they are not Strictly needed to complete these Dungeons
Reason two you give is: You do not have the Group
Solution: If you are in a guild, do not offer money for Farmruns, if your guild collects money from you for Farmruns, leave that guild. In my opinion you should ask - politely - if some group may take you with them and explain the mechanics and workings of the dungeon to you. Make it clear, that you wish to get better, and not that your only objective is, to complete the dungeon by being carried by others. That is something that happens if you offer Money to people to carry you through a dungeon.
Reason three you give is: You do not have the Build
Solution: Ask People for advice, inform yourself, and think for yourself. The best cookie cutter build does not help, if you can not utilize it.

(Nearly) Everyone Sucked as they began playing. Getting better and finishing harder content should be a gradual and rewarding experience. This is the problem for many of the more experienced players, they do not have any more content (except maybe the vMoL. but thats only for the raidplayers) to give them this gradual and rewarding experience. Therefore be happy to have an actual challenge in front of you.

Thank you for an adequate response. But I still do not understand why the golden key included these two difficult dungeons.

Simple answer is they want people to play the content they made that lives behind a paywall to make money, which is kind of the point of producing a game. But they also reward you for the increased difficulty by rewarding two keys for completing them. If it is too hard, then do it on normal for a silver key and learn the mechanics.

My best advice would be to get the appropriate gear and find 3 other people who also have not done it and work to learn it together. This will be much better in the long term than getting carried through by elite players. You'll learn it and eventually master it and be in a position to give other folks advice.

Kaspy · May 2016

DschiPeunt wrote: »

I think we all understand that,

You must have missed the 3/4 of the 'L2P' & 'vIC are teh easiest' posts then.

but a lot of people here have already suggested going in with friends or guild mates. Why would you expect, that strangers took their time to explain something to you? I think with proper explanation and some wiping, the dungeons take approximately >=30 minutes more than usual. Why would I (or others) invest that time to help random people?

That's exactly what guilds are for. Helping and teaching each other and doing stuff together.

And as I pointed out even in guilds people tend to prefer (or do exclusively) run with 'experienced' players only.
Of course, those dungeons are getting a nerf, which I guess is pretty much the effect of such 'policies'.

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

Kaspy wrote: »

DschiPeunt wrote: »

I think we all understand that,

You must have missed the 3/4 of the 'L2P' & 'vIC are teh easiest' posts then.

but a lot of people here have already suggested going in with friends or guild mates. Why would you expect, that strangers took their time to explain something to you? I think with proper explanation and some wiping, the dungeons take approximately >=30 minutes more than usual. Why would I (or others) invest that time to help random people?

That's exactly what guilds are for. Helping and teaching each other and doing stuff together.

And as I pointed out even in guilds people tend to prefer (or do exclusively) run with 'experienced' players only.
Of course, those dungeons are getting a nerf, which I guess is pretty much the effect of such 'policies'.

Well, its not rude in this case, you actually need to learn the mechanics of these dungeons. If you follow them, you're golden, even if the dps is not top notch. The only dps races in these dungeons only require around 12k from every dd (on vr16) and even less if healer and tank are helping a bit.
Also, if you find a group to do them once, you're experienced too.

Most of people do not mean "you must be able to do this with your eyes closed" when they ask for exp party. They just dont have time or dont want to explain mechanics, and 1-2 runs are enough for this.

Flaminir · May 2016

kylewwefan wrote: »

Don't listen to these jokers. These level are crazy hard. If they were so easy, no one would be talking about them.

They aren't MEANT to be easy!!!

They SHOULD be hard! They are meant to be the two hardest 4 man dungeons in the game.

The game used to have content at all levels... so as you played more & got better you could complete harder and harder content.

Then too many people weren't prepared to improve & wanted it on a plate... so the nerfs began.

& now we're in a position where 99% of the game caters to people who are new to the game, not prepared to do the research, practice etc that's required & there is virtually nothing left of any challenge for the rest of us.

Sorry.... but I help a lot of players all the time to complete new content.... whether that's by actually running it with them, teaching, advise, gear, etc.... and many are prepared to do what they need to do to improve. (& YES op... there are a lot of people in the game that WILL help people with content like this!)

But I HATE the whole nerf culture going on in this game right now..... rather than a properly balanced difficulty curve we have a totally flat difficulty level all the way to vMOL/vMA....

...And that not only annoys & alienates a large chunk of the population who have been playing a while, it also doesn't help, improve & prepare the newer players as they work up to that level. So nobody wins

Transairion · May 2016

An obvious answer to the question of "why complain, it's so easy!" comes to mind when you see the ghost town of Undaunted areas come Imperial DLC Pledges days: if it was so easy for the average player, then the only groups wouldn't be ones demanding experienced players only.

Frankly I'd prefer said dungeons weren't Pledges at all, if only because they're DLC locked and every time they're the Pledges I can't even run them. I thought Undaunted Pledges were a base game update, why shove in the DLC ones and lock players out? Not like they're not going to be run at all outside Pledges....

Flaminir · May 2016

Transairion wrote: »

Frankly I'd prefer said dungeons weren't Pledges at all, if only because they're DLC locked and every time they're the Pledges I can't even run them. I thought Undaunted Pledges were a base game update, why shove in the DLC ones and lock players out? Not like they're not going to be run at all outside Pledges....

Drive DLC sales...

AOECAPS · May 2016

Don't run it with people that don't know what they are doing was asked to help with kena fight after they kicked a person from the group. The tank had 0 mitigation couldn't hold agro and just ran around the map like a fool. Find people that know what they are doing and t will go smooth

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

Transairion wrote: »

if it was so easy for the average player, then the only groups wouldn't be ones demanding experienced players only.

But those players who ask for expirienced groups are not some super elite dudes and dudettes. They are average dungeon delvers.
They're asking for experienced groups because unlike other dungeons, vWGT, vCoA and vICP have some mechanics and cannot be just zerg rushed, and at the same time they dont want to teach or simply dont have much time. Of course, offering help would be more nice of them, but how often do you offer your time for total strangers?

MaxwellC · May 2016

@Che False mate yesterday I encountered a group via group finder who didn't know what to do after the 2nd boss and I showed them and guess what after dying so many times leaving to get more repair kits we completed the dungeon. It just takes that person to say w/e I'll give it a shot. That was for ICP when I do WGT I'll do the same thing if I'm not crunch on time; I've got no problems with showing people the ropes.

One thing I think ZoS should do is give a tutorial video when in these dungeons for those who haven't completed it. It'll go over recommended gear/stat values and go over mechanics of the fight because that was the issue yesterday since on the 2nd boss they weren't familiar with the mechanics and after going over it trial and error 3rd time it was a clean run.

Khamira · May 2016

Che wrote: »

The main problem is that these dungeons appear in daily, people without the gear and experience can not to do them.

As they say here where I live: People who want will find a way, people who don't want will find a reason. Or something like that.

these dungeons appear in daily - don't do GOLD dailies. Silver with lots of fun > 5h for gold keys. Or don't do dailies at all.
people without the gear - obtain gear.
people without (...) experience - gain experience.

If you have the energy to whine on forums, you absolutely have the energy to do above things. I remember wiping on vet CoA Croc boss because we tried some wicked stoopid strategies (burn boss, go on pilar, rotfl lol). Last time I with my boyfriend "carried" DK Tank and DK healer that were there for the first time only because of experience (They weren't noobs, they only were first time in that dungeon). He was on his VR6 MagSorc.

The ONLY non crafted gear I wear is Molag Kena shoulder (that I plan to replace for NMG in Dark Brotherhood patch) and jewelery that just cannot be crafted (Dis One would craft it if she could). Of course there are better pieces out there, but gear is here only to make things easier, not to make things for you.

EDIT:

Nobody wants to and will not waste time on people without experience only in order to get the golden key.

I WILL. If I know that I'm able to carry one or 2 unexperienced people I will, because:

It's fun.
You see how big progress you did when comparing yourself to those people.
Everyone was a newbie once, so maybe that light armor bow using tank will someday save your butt from being fried by Mrs. Inhibitor?
If your strategy works with n00bz, it will definetely work with uber-pro-hiper-mega-elitists.

I PUG all the time. I only kick people when "tank" is not taunting "Cause he didn't wanna wait many hours in Q U n00bz lol l2p" or healer is constantly changing himself into werewolf.

daemonios · May 2016

Just pugged a DD and a tank and did gold key with them. Tank had never been in WGT, didn't have DPS gear for the planar so we struggled a bit there, but Kena only took 3 attempts to complete in hard mode, and we reached the last phase every time.

These are easy dungeons, they just need you to know WTF you're doing

DschiPeunt · May 2016

Kaspy wrote: »

DschiPeunt wrote: »

I think we all understand that,

You must have missed the 3/4 of the 'L2P' & 'vIC are teh easiest' posts then.

but a lot of people here have already suggested going in with friends or guild mates. Why would you expect, that strangers took their time to explain something to you? I think with proper explanation and some wiping, the dungeons take approximately >=30 minutes more than usual. Why would I (or others) invest that time to help random people?

That's exactly what guilds are for. Helping and teaching each other and doing stuff together.

And as I pointed out even in guilds people tend to prefer (or do exclusively) run with 'experienced' players only.
Of course, those dungeons are getting a nerf, which I guess is pretty much the effect of such 'policies'.

I didn't miss them, I wrote some of them myself.

And that is, because we are fed up with the content nerfing. The OP plays this game for a month. Many of us play for 2years+. And those dungeons are not too hard. It's the other way around: a lot of the game is too easy. Just look at the normal and veteran version of MoL or the MSA. The difference between the two modes is huge. People faceroll through the easy content and suddenly they hit a wall, when dealing with the more difficult content.
Take a look at the stuff people do with the content: 5 people did Sanctum Ophidia hardmode (12-player content), people 2-man or even solo some of the veteran dungeons (4-player content). Me and some guildies did vICP in 20 mins a few days ago, when doing farm-runs (the speedrun achievement is 45 minutes....).

As Koshka said: it is indeed necessary to learn the mechanics and it's not rude to point that out.

On top of that: Some of the experienced players even write guides, upload videos and answer questions on the forums. They are already helping people with dealing with the content.

And if you really can't find people in your guild to run those dungeons with you, you are either in the wrong guild or have wrong expectations. There may not always be 3 people around to do those stuff with you, just when you want it. Get to know some of your guildies and ask them to set a date for doing these dungeons, so everyone has 2-3 hours time.

Transairion · May 2016

people without (...) experience - gain experience.

How does one do that for a Vet Dungeon without running the Vet Dungeon if no-one will take you because you haven't done it before? That's a bit of a paradox: "We won't run with you until you're experienced, but you won't get experienced until someone runs with you".

Or heck, where are these "Dungeoneering" guilds that apparently exist? Do you just ask random PUG's hoping someone will take you?

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

Transairion wrote: »

people without (...) experience - gain experience.

How does one do that for a Vet Dungeon without running the Vet Dungeon if no-one will take you because you haven't done it before? That's a bit of a paradox: "We won't run with you until you're experienced, but you won't get experienced until someone runs with you".

Or heck, where are these "Dungeoneering" guilds that apparently exist? Do you just ask random PUG's hoping someone will take you?

If that was the case, no one would able to beat any content. Cause everyone, even top guilds, had to start from scratch, without knowing anything beforehand.

Edit: and there is a lot of guilds that recruit here on forums and in game.

Humatiel · May 2016

Transairion wrote: »

people without (...) experience - gain experience.

How does one do that for a Vet Dungeon without running the Vet Dungeon if no-one will take you because you haven't done it before? That's a bit of a paradox: "We won't run with you until you're experienced, but you won't get experienced until someone runs with you".

Or heck, where are these "Dungeoneering" guilds that apparently exist? Do you just ask random PUG's hoping someone will take you?

Its group content, as group content its natural to assume the OP is playing with guild members interested in the same group content. Lets not pretend the OP is standing on a roof somewhere shouting to PuGs "teach me!" "teach me!". He is (or should join) a guild dedicated to the PvE aspect of eso and from personal experience I will tell you those types of environments have IC runs going constantly.

Khamira · May 2016

Van_0S wrote: »

The real problem is vICP and vWGT needs not only exp players and good gear but TeamSpeak is a must in those dungeons as well.

Not really. If everyone knows what to do and everyone follows "common well-known PUG XYZ Boss strategy" every dungeon is ok without TS.

In vWGT the biggest problem is that EVERYONE needs to be DPS on Planar Inhibitor. And at the same time EVERYONE is taunting and everyone is healing. The most common wipe scenarios in this dungon was that healer/tank couldn't close portals quick enough and all the adds killed us (DPS role), or someone forgot to use pinion and DoT killed other person (TANK role), or you forgot to slot vigor and yelled on a healer that was closing the portals instead of healing yourself and your burning buddy (HEALER role).

Well, that's natural, game says "play as U want lol" and then forces you to tank big fire farting demon with a stick...

Lord_Eomer · May 2016

kuro-dono wrote: »

WGT and Prison require no ts at all. just before each boss understand mechanics to clear them out, and for special mechanics part like pinion boss choose who use pinion and so on its loads easier when you dont need to guess who is going to close pinion.

ICP final boss is amazingly easy just wee unlucky moments can arrive but overall its easy.
White gold tower i notice regularly how rookies cant bother to roll dodge or they try to "out run" the lighting wall when tiny movements towards the barrier instead would save you. Roll dodge completely avoids the dmg but just hold block and walk towards it and you pass tru it without death and wasting lots of stamina. Average Healer should anywya have so much mana that healing you once should not be too biggie.

Prison is just 33% longer dungeon, and none of its bosses is mad hard. WEll ok i forgot the flesh astro sculptor boss, but even he is easy Even with the change into the phase when he starts summoning flesh astronachs you can still keep nuking boss, its just SLOW.

Common this flesh kill u in single hit, u need very good DPS with good AOE damage...

Caff32 · May 2016

It takes a few tries per boss to get the mechanics down but once you do, it's not impossible. Completed it yesterday for the first time with a DPS sorc acting as healer (me) and a tank who had never done it before either. Certainly not impossible.

lolo_01b16_ESO · May 2016

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

kuro-dono wrote: »

WGT and Prison require no ts at all. just before each boss understand mechanics to clear them out, and for special mechanics part like pinion boss choose who use pinion and so on its loads easier when you dont need to guess who is going to close pinion.

ICP final boss is amazingly easy just wee unlucky moments can arrive but overall its easy.
White gold tower i notice regularly how rookies cant bother to roll dodge or they try to "out run" the lighting wall when tiny movements towards the barrier instead would save you. Roll dodge completely avoids the dmg but just hold block and walk towards it and you pass tru it without death and wasting lots of stamina. Average Healer should anywya have so much mana that healing you once should not be too biggie.

Prison is just 33% longer dungeon, and none of its bosses is mad hard. WEll ok i forgot the flesh astro sculptor boss, but even he is easy Even with the change into the phase when he starts summoning flesh astronachs you can still keep nuking boss, its just SLOW.

Common this flesh kill u in single hit, u need very good DPS with good AOE damage...

This is just not true. If you can kill a single flesh atro in time, you have enough dps to complete it if you follow the mechanics properly. And there is no need for good aoe dps. All big trash groups can be skipped without suiciding and no boss fight requires aoe. You only need aoe if you decide to ignore certain mechanics.

willymchilybily · May 2016

Get in a guild that talks on microphone and likes to do content together. People don't want to take a new guy through in a PUG because these dungeons have little room for dead weight.

ICP: its long, no one wants to invest that time and not finish it. And if you carry a guy that keeps falling in portal on the last boss. it not just him who is going to die. second boss is so much easier now i dont think this really factors in anymore.

WGT: Unless you get lucky on who is on portals, planar inhibitor prevents any one from really being carried. Everyone need to contribute somewhat.

In a guild you can quickly judge a person's ability, and give them enough information to not be terrible. Also you're more willing to struggle for a few attempts because once someone has done it once they can do it again and its another person who can run that content.

we took a guild mate through vWGT and had no deaths and no adds on planar inhibitor, on his first run, if you know how to play the game and have the mechanics explained to you, experience is not required.

TL:DR Get In A GUILD!

Khamira · May 2016

Transairion wrote: »

people without (...) experience - gain experience.

How does one do that for a Vet Dungeon without running the Vet Dungeon if no-one will take you because you haven't done it before? That's a bit of a paradox: "We won't run with you until you're experienced, but you won't get experienced until someone runs with you".

Or heck, where are these "Dungeoneering" guilds that apparently exist? Do you just ask random PUG's hoping someone will take you?

Disclaimer - I run ONLY WITH PUGS, because I'm too antisocial to wait for other/any guildies and I basically play in a gap between Aussies going to sleep and Murricans sipping their coffee.

First step: Git gud.
Know your playstyle, know your rotation, know your build. Learn how game works, what you can do and what you can't, have an open "I'm learning something new each day and that makes me a human being" mindset.
My muscle memory is so good that you can wake me up at 4am and I'll still be able to know that pointing finger is Surprise Attack and pinkie is a Flying Blade :P

Second step: Train group content
Right now you can 2man every normal dungeon, but some people like to do it in old way. So jump into normal dungeon and try to heal peeps with your new-uber-pro made from scratch healing rotation.

Third step: Progress through group content
If you're comfortable with normal dungeons and you know how more-or-less Trinity works, try something harder. Veteran Spindleclutch is not hard, but as a vet dungeon it's not walk in the park (assuming you are in "I CAN DUNGEONZ!" phase) so you can verify if your super-uber-pro made from scratch healing rotation is truly that good. Or maybe you need to adjust some skills for different encounters? Remember - "I'm learning something new each day and that makes me a human being".

Fourth step: Progress moar!
Now I'm basically answering your question. How to NOT get kicked from vWGT group? Well, you kicked Valkyn in his Skorias, no one is Guarding The Engine anymore, and Daedroths are now your pets, not Rilis'. So why would anyone kick you?

When I was first time on Veteran Imperial City Prison, I just normaly said: guys, I'm here first time, BUT:
- I've been on normal mode 20 times.
- I'm almost Deadlands Adept because every group is swimming through lava all the time and I can't kill those flaming skellies.
- Molag Kena is My Armor.

Then we jumped into TS and we did it. Yeah, with like 20 wipes here and there, but it WAS fun, and awesome!

Next step?
I assume it will be like: "Hi guys, I have never been in Sanctum Ophidia, but dis little hoarvor there is my companion named Paskuda, so lemme in!

"

mistermutiny89 · May 2016

"Plz only join our groupz if u has Molag kena helmz and have done it like 50 timez".

It's like going for your first credit card but needing to have a credit history to attain said credit card, in which having a credit card gives you.

Never have completed it and probably never will. Tried with a French group and a couple of groups with wrecking blow spammers... And never gotten past planar. I'd be happy just to find a group that wants to farm embers for spell power cure. But meh, I'm an Aussie on the Eu server for Xbox, most of my guild mates come on after 3am... In which I'll stay up ask them if they want to run vWGT and they all go quiet. It is what it is.

ZOS_DaryaK · May 2016

We've removed a number of posts that were not contributing to this discussion. Be constructive. Be civil.

idk · May 2016

Joining a decent PvEguild is the best way to get groups for running these dungeons.

Part of the reason players will not take inexperienced players into these dungeons is often they're lazy and don't bother trying to find out the mechanics before hand making the run impossible. At that, a player that pretty much runs solo often is not part of discussion with others that leads to improving as a player regardless of role.

At that, they are nerfing these dungeons next week. Sad but true. Even with the nerf I expect w significant number of players that have not cleared this dungeon to remain locked out since there are mechanics the cannot be ignored. The ignorant will cause the group to fail.