Is there any way we can complain on moderators and/or get any explanation to their actions?

FortheloveofKrist · May 2016

Artis wrote: »

I do. I want everyone to have equal opportunity to express their opinions. What about freedom of speech and equality?

Once again. This is not a democracy. It's a business.

Moonscythe · May 2016

jzholloway wrote: »

ESO Forums - the ONLY PC (politically correct) MMO forum on the internet...

If EvE moderated like this... no one would play it lol

BTW - not bashing the moderators, just making a point. Most gaming forums have rules yes, but this one seems more heavily moderated then most (I've been in EvE, WoW, SWTOR, Diablo 2 & 3, Destiny, etc).

I have nothing to say about other MMO forums but I am perplexed by your saying that EvE players would quit the game if the forum was badly moderated. That seems to me a rather shallow reason for even a rage quit. It comes perilously close to hurt feelings.

Sogreth · May 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Private messages are the only way to communicate with the moderators.

Yeah, because they don't like confrontation.

THBronx · May 2016

Freedom of speech. Three words that get thrown around and written about so often that what the expression means is more about misinformation than truth.

Censorship in corporate social media is not only alive and well, it is often a necessity. Getting mad, raging, whining when content is deleted from a business or other individuals page makes about as much sense as raging against an editor for not publishing a letter on the letters page of a newspaper or magazine.

Uberkull · May 2016

What gets me about this forum is it's G rated moderation, yet the game is rated M. Carebear content only on the forum, yet in game content....

Rating Category: M
Content Descriptors: Blood and Gore, Sexual Themes, Use of Alcohol, Violence
Other: Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB (PlayStation 4, Xbox One)
Rating Summary: This is a multiplayer online role-playing game in which players assume the role of a warrior in the fantastical world of Nirn. As players explore open-world environments, they can perform various quests and complete tasks. Characters use swords, arrows, axes, and magic attacks (e.g., lightning, fire attacks) to kill human-like and fantastical enemies (e.g., orcs, demons, giant insects). Players engage in melee-style combat, hacking and slashing at various enemies; battles are highlighted by cries of pain, impact sounds, and blood splashes. Some sequences depict large amounts of blood streaming up-close as vampires attack/feed on characters. In some quests players have the ability to mount creatures' severed heads onto pikes; some environments depict corpse piles or skeletons hanging from torture devices. Text descriptions or dialogue sometimes contain references to sexual material and/or innuendo (e.g., “She...*** the men as cruelly as Bal had ravished her”; “In his mind, she would be the sheath to every knight's blade”; “No sweetmeat for you”; But it is huge! It could take me all night!”). During the course of the game, alcohol (i.e., wine, mead, ale) can be purchased and consumed by the central character; one sequence prompts players to engage in a drinking contest, resulting in the central character's blurred vision/slurred speech.

Source: http://www.esrb.org/ratings/Synopsis.aspx?Certificate=33890&Title=The+Elder+Scrolls+Online:+Tamriel+Unlimited+Imperial+Edition

Volkodav · May 2016

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

@Gidorick, I just got back after about 11 months away, but in the time I spent here in the first year (and already in the 2 weeks I've been back), I've noticed they're more likely to stomp down on people calling out others for appalling behavior than for the appalling behavior itself.

And whatever you do, don't call a moderator's judgement into question. That's about as useful as questioning a cop's judgement.

Well, I can put your conspiracy at rest because my aggressive behavior towards white knights has gotten me many a slaps on the hand from the mods.

I found out that every time they remove your comment,it goes in your files.Like a black list against you.I didnt know they did this.Adding up your offenses.
I too am confused about what is and what isnt allowed.Many really ugly name calling comments are allowed to remain while others,some of mine as well,were removed and bans or warnings sent.

Gidorick · May 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

@Gidorick, I just got back after about 11 months away, but in the time I spent here in the first year (and already in the 2 weeks I've been back), I've noticed they're more likely to stomp down on people calling out others for appalling behavior than for the appalling behavior itself.

And whatever you do, don't call a moderator's judgement into question. That's about as useful as questioning a cop's judgement.

Well, I can put your conspiracy at rest because my aggressive behavior towards white knights has gotten me many a slaps on the hand from the mods.

I found out that every time they remove your comment,it goes in your files.Like a black list against you.I didnt know they did this.Adding up your offenses.
I too am confused about what is and what isnt allowed.Many really ugly name calling comments are allowed to remain while others,some of mine as well,were removed and bans or warnings sent.

I actually think this is reasonable. If they ban someone they need to have record of WHY that person was banned. Not very often is one offense egregious enough to ban someone.

themdogesbite · May 2016

Honestly, even though the mods have removed lots of my posts / warned me they´ve always been nice towards me overall the few times i've questioned it and debated with them. I might not always agree with them but they are doing a good job here.

kevlarto_ESO · May 2016

Private company, they own the forums, besides that Freedom of Speech does not apply here.

Freedom of Speech is valued by most people as a God given right that is so important, it must be guaranteed by the government. Americans after the Revolutionary War decided they did not want the government restricting their speech. In general, at the time of the writing of the Constitution, the concern about protecting free speech was in regard to protecting political speech.

They wanted to be able to express their opinions about political candidates and laws they might pass. If the government was allowed to censor viewpoints it didn't like, the people would end up with a government that favored certain people who had political power and oppressed everyone else who did not agree.

Read more: http://www.revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com/freedom-of-speech-clause.html#ixzz496dMwdCY

vyrusb23 · May 2016

Posting on forums is serious business.

KramUzibra · May 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

@Gidorick, I just got back after about 11 months away, but in the time I spent here in the first year (and already in the 2 weeks I've been back), I've noticed they're more likely to stomp down on people calling out others for appalling behavior than for the appalling behavior itself.

And whatever you do, don't call a moderator's judgement into question. That's about as useful as questioning a cop's judgement.

Well, I can put your conspiracy at rest because my aggressive behavior towards white knights has gotten me many a slaps on the hand from the mods.

I found out that every time they remove your comment,it goes in your files.Like a black list against you.I didnt know they did this.Adding up your offenses.
I too am confused about what is and what isnt allowed.Many really ugly name calling comments are allowed to remain while others,some of mine as well,were removed and bans or warnings sent.

Wow! Didn't realize they do this.

KramUzibra · May 2016

themdogesbite wrote: »

Honestly, even though the mods have removed lots of my posts / warned me they´ve always been nice towards me overall the few times i've questioned it and debated with them. I might not always agree with them but they are doing a good job here.

I attempted to debate on the removal of one of my post and was met with silence.

Gidorick · May 2016

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Private company, they own the forums, besides that Freedom of Speech does not apply here.

Freedom of Speech is valued by most people as a God given right that is so important, it must be guaranteed by the government. Americans after the Revolutionary War decided they did not want the government restricting their speech. In general, at the time of the writing of the Constitution, the concern about protecting free speech was in regard to protecting political speech.

They wanted to be able to express their opinions about political candidates and laws they might pass. If the government was allowed to censor viewpoints it didn't like, the people would end up with a government that favored certain people who had political power and oppressed everyone else who did not agree.

Read more: http://www.revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com/freedom-of-speech-clause.html#ixzz496dMwdCY

ZOS_AlanG · May 2016

We have no problem with moderation being discussed generally, but please do not discuss specific actions. As covered in the rules, this isn't allowed, and needs to be kept to PMs. In respect to everyone's privacy, we will not discuss actions taken on the forums with anyone except the person affected. So if someone is warned or suspended, we will not talk about this or even confirm it with other people.

If someone repeatedly breaks the rules future infractions are likely to involve disciplinary acts, and eventually a temporary suspension or permanent ban. It is also our policy to tell people if they are at risk of being suspended or banned for future infractions.

We are actually planning to tweak the strike system in the near future, and are expecting to post about this in the coming weeks.

idk · May 2016

Artis wrote: »

That makes sense but is unfair, because it can also have other quotes and contribute to a discussion. But anyways, those 2 specific comments of mine didn't have any quotes deleted, they were just deleted. One of them quoted a moderator's generic "some comments were removed". Now I don't know if that was him or no. And how do I report whoever did that so that somebody else (obviously not him) considers it?

The moderators have to make choices. What is fair is relative and what one person considers fair in thee matters will often differ from another's oppinion.

With your own description it seems the topics and conversation was rather volitile and as such there should be no surprise action was deemed necessary. As such, and again based on what you posted, it should be of no surprise posts and threads were removed.

KramUzibra · May 2016

if I feel iv been unnecessarily moderated I shouldnt be afraid to share my experience with zen employees with my fellow eso players.

Alurria · May 2016

KramUzibra wrote: »

if I feel iv been unnecessarily moderated I shouldnt be afraid to share my experience with zen employees with my fellow eso players.

I think you just have to accept the fact, that the rules are not up for debate. Share it privately. This forum belongs to Zeni, they could shut it down tomorrow with out giving anyone notice. If you are nice and thoughtful in your replies, or reasonable with your topics then you have nothing to worry about. That's my thought on it.

ZOS_AlanG · May 2016

KramUzibra wrote: »

if I feel iv been unnecessarily moderated I shouldnt be afraid to share my experience with zen employees with my fellow eso players.

As a moderator, I've participated in many very constructive threads about the rules, their enforcement, and our objectives for the community. There's a lot of good that can come from explaining why the rules are in place, as people are more likely to support and be positive contributors to the community.

However, I've found that once the conversation veers away from generality to specifics, it goes down hill quickly. In addition to being generally negative, the moderators cannot comment on the matters themselves. So if someone says they were moderated unfairly, we cannot offer our side of the situation. In a few instances, I've seen people flat out lie about why they were moderated, although more often it's simply a difference in opinion. Either way, a biased discussion of moderation where the moderators cannot step in to clarify is problematic to say the least.

We welcome anyone to reach out to us via PM, or to submit a ticket, if they wish to contest moderator or simply want clarification.

KingYogi415 · May 2016

If only they spent as much time fixing bugs as they did moderating the forums!

Volkodav · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

@Gidorick, I just got back after about 11 months away, but in the time I spent here in the first year (and already in the 2 weeks I've been back), I've noticed they're more likely to stomp down on people calling out others for appalling behavior than for the appalling behavior itself.

And whatever you do, don't call a moderator's judgement into question. That's about as useful as questioning a cop's judgement.

Well, I can put your conspiracy at rest because my aggressive behavior towards white knights has gotten me many a slaps on the hand from the mods.

I found out that every time they remove your comment,it goes in your files.Like a black list against you.I didnt know they did this.Adding up your offenses.
I too am confused about what is and what isnt allowed.Many really ugly name calling comments are allowed to remain while others,some of mine as well,were removed and bans or warnings sent.

I actually think this is reasonable. If they ban someone they need to have record of WHY that person was banned. Not very often is one offense egregious enough to ban someone.

Yes,but not every time they remove a comment.If you get too many comments removed,you can get banned.
Also,there needs to be more consistency in what people are banned for.As it is,it is whatever one mod doesnt happen to personally like.He/she removes one comment that is moderately rude,and leaves one that is far more aggressive and acerbic.

Gidorick · May 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

@Gidorick, I just got back after about 11 months away, but in the time I spent here in the first year (and already in the 2 weeks I've been back), I've noticed they're more likely to stomp down on people calling out others for appalling behavior than for the appalling behavior itself.

And whatever you do, don't call a moderator's judgement into question. That's about as useful as questioning a cop's judgement.

Well, I can put your conspiracy at rest because my aggressive behavior towards white knights has gotten me many a slaps on the hand from the mods.

I found out that every time they remove your comment,it goes in your files.Like a black list against you.I didnt know they did this.Adding up your offenses.
I too am confused about what is and what isnt allowed.Many really ugly name calling comments are allowed to remain while others,some of mine as well,were removed and bans or warnings sent.

I actually think this is reasonable. If they ban someone they need to have record of WHY that person was banned. Not very often is one offense egregious enough to ban someone.

Yes,but not every time they remove a comment.If you get too many comments removed,you can get banned.
Also,there needs to be more consistency in what people are banned for.As it is,it is whatever one mod doesnt happen to personally like.He/she removes one comment that is moderately rude,and leaves one that is far more aggressive and acerbic.

We don't know if there's not some metric they use. Right? I mean, each comment removal might be X points, warnings are X points, etc.

And of course it's all subjective at some point. Where ZOS fails, I think, is a means by which we can have a grievance handled by a different employee.

You don't agree with the person you're dealing with? The official response is to submit a ticket... how often do you hear back from those?

clayandaudrey_ESO · May 2016

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

We welcome anyone to reach out to us via PM, or to submit a ticket, if they wish to contest moderator or simply want clarification.

This is an outright lie as I had something happen to me I can not discuss from a pm debate with a "mod"

Callous2208 · May 2016

Each and every time I was moderated or temp banned, I deserved it. I'm old enough to accept that fact. If you want to name call, argue politics and current social hot button issues, or troll endlessly, gtfo of a game forum. I try to save my most venemous rhetoric for face to face confrontation, but alas, no one seems to have the guts for that sort of debate anymore.

ZOS_AlanG · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

We don't know if there'should not some metric they use. Right? I mean, each comment removal might be X points, warnings are X points, etc.

It's much simpler than that. The basic strike table is outlined here, although our current enforcement is more flexible. As mentioned earlier, we're planning to tweak it as post a new sticky explaining the system.

Gidorick wrote: »

And of course it's all subjective at some point. Where ZOS fails, I think, is a means by which we can have a grievance handled by a different employee.

You don't agree with the person you're dealing with? The official response is to submit a ticket... how often do you hear back from those?

If you ever want a different moderator to review something all you have to do is ask. As for moderation appeals, we respond to all of them, so if someone hasn't heard back from us in a few days let us know. Every now and then someone doesn't specify they're appealing a forum action and their ticket gets mis-escalated, which can take a bit to sort out.

purple-magicb16_ESO · May 2016

Its not about having guts or whose tougher and whose a wimp. Folks are missing the point of forums. Its about sharing your perspectives and opinions in an intelligent, coherent and civil manner. I can do this and I don't have any special degrees or training, so imho it shouldn't be that hard to speak your mind in a civil manner.

Gidorick · May 2016

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

We don't know if there'should not some metric they use. Right? I mean, each comment removal might be X points, warnings are X points, etc.

It's much simpler than that. The basic strike table is outlined here, although our current enforcement is more flexible. As mentioned earlier, we're planning to tweak it as post a new sticky explaining the system.

Gidorick wrote: »

And of course it's all subjective at some point. Where ZOS fails, I think, is a means by which we can have a grievance handled by a different employee.

You don't agree with the person you're dealing with? The official response is to submit a ticket... how often do you hear back from those?

If you ever want a different moderator to review something all you have to do is ask. As for moderation appeals, we respond to all of them, so if someone hasn't heard back from us in a few days let us know. Every now and then someone doesn't specify they're appealing a forum action and their ticket gets mis-escalated, which can take a bit to sort out.

Thanks for the information @ZOS_AlanG . Should this request for another moderator be done through a PM to the mod we are already in contact with or should it be through the ticketing system?

ZOS_AlanG · May 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

Thanks for the information @ZOS_AlanG . Should this request for another moderator be done through a PM to the mod we are already in contact with or should it be through the ticketing system?

Either is fine. We have a formal process for reviewing appeals, so a ticket is probably preferable. PMs have their advantages, but if we have our hands full chances are we'd direct someone to submit a ticket anyway - it ensures that the request doesn't fall through the cracks.

Moonscythe · May 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

If only they spent as much time fixing bugs as they did moderating the forums!

Don't be a complete (fill in the blank)! The moderators have nothing, repeat, nothing to do with fixing bugs. Their job is to keep the fora civil. That is a big enough job. If you want a more free-wheeling forum I suspect Reddit or some other is the place for you. Personally, I think the official face of the game should set a somewhat higher tone.