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Why NB's are OP in 1 picture
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KisoValley✭✭✭✭✭HarmitGill wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
Yes I'm sure Jules would lose too mainly because she's from NA and Dduke is from EU and Jules will be fighting the ping issues more than she will be fighting Duke but great idea I agree! @Ragnaroek93
You can pick any NB from EU megaserver to fight my Templar and he/she would lose. Alternatively, you can make them fight a stam DK of my choosing & the NB would lose as well.
Not because my Templar is op or anything, but because stam NBs are ridiculously weak against anything they can't burst down - they lack sustained damage and they lack defenses against opponents' sustained damage.
This makes them weak in 1v1 scenarios where they cant just gank their target.
There was another big dueling tournament in EU just a couple days ago (you might've seen the threads) - unsurprisingly not a single stamina NB made it to top 5
I was there. I watched. I saw the one NB who probably would have went far lose because his screen froze to the eventual winner lol (he may still have lost but was pretty bs way for him to lose). I saw a great old NB playing on a V9 too. Think they could have done really well if on a V16.
I'm on the fence for this argument. I was just pointing out how flawed it is to ask Jules to duel you when you're on different servers lol. @DDuke0 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭K i just pvp.
@DisgracefulMindDisgracefulMind wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »
@DisgracefulMind
Your oppinion counts just as much as mine. So rub those braincells together and make human talk, k?
How about you rub some brain cells together, learn how to read your class passives. synergize them with your class playstyle, and then come to the forums and try to discuss class balance.
Until then, sit down and let the people who know what they're talking about discuss things such as this.
We don't need anymore people who have serious l2p issues giving ZoS ideas.
k?
You said absolutely nothing of merit, again.
Good job
Re-read through DK passives again and then tell me they suck.
You have Battle Roar, you have Minor Brutality, you have increased damage to your Fire/Poison effects, you can block an additional 10% damage, you gain 3 ultimate every 6 seconds if you're using Earthen Heart abilities, activating an Earthen Heart ability also restores 5% stamina, you have increased spell resist, and an innate snare.
PLEASE TELL ME AGAIN THAT DK PASSIVES SUCK.
I'm actually wondering if you copy pasted or typed this stuff out. Well you're making an attempt so ill try to steer you.
Its about how well pvp builds mesh with passives. @DDuke kinda thought you we were on the same page, but banner? Skoria over kena/BS? Sounds like you do alot of group play, which makes running these viable. But the typical solo roller/no healer in group set up only allows for 1 variable slot and if i could cast unstable flames and get an 8% damage boost on you as well as 8% damage midigation, 3% max health just for having it slotted id think it was just a bit OP.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭K i just pvp.
@DisgracefulMindDisgracefulMind wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »
@DisgracefulMind
Your oppinion counts just as much as mine. So rub those braincells together and make human talk, k?
How about you rub some brain cells together, learn how to read your class passives. synergize them with your class playstyle, and then come to the forums and try to discuss class balance.
Until then, sit down and let the people who know what they're talking about discuss things such as this.
We don't need anymore people who have serious l2p issues giving ZoS ideas.
k?
You said absolutely nothing of merit, again.
Good job
Re-read through DK passives again and then tell me they suck.
You have Battle Roar, you have Minor Brutality, you have increased damage to your Fire/Poison effects, you can block an additional 10% damage, you gain 3 ultimate every 6 seconds if you're using Earthen Heart abilities, activating an Earthen Heart ability also restores 5% stamina, you have increased spell resist, and an innate snare.
PLEASE TELL ME AGAIN THAT DK PASSIVES SUCK.
I'm actually wondering if you copy pasted or typed this stuff out. Well you're making an attempt so ill try to steer you.
Its about how well pvp builds mesh with passives. @DDuke kinda thought you we were on the same page, but banner? Skoria over kena/BS? Sounds like you do alot of group play, which makes running these viable. But the typical solo roller/no healer in group set up only allows for 1 variable slot and if i could cast unstable flames and get an 8% damage boost on you as well as 8% damage midigation, 3% max health just for having it slotted id think it was just a bit OP.
Skoria is great in solo PvP (I used it on my Templar in the latest PvP tournament here in EU)- Banner is somewhat rarer in PvP but still sees some play.
You can cast Burning Breath & put a DoT on that target for the same +8% damage (or use S&B & Ransack) and use Volatile Armor for the Armor buffs, +12% healing & for popping NBs out of stealth.
It doesn't matter how many buffs/debuffs an ability does - what matters is the big picture: how much damage you deal & how much damage you mitigate - and there DKs are the clear winners thanks to DoTs and all the +healing taken buffs they get.
If buffs/debuffs were the only factor, then the most powerful skill in game would be Radiant Aura (Restoring Aura morph) which gives 6 different buffs by casting it.Edited by DDuke on May 18, 2016 1:56AM1 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭The limited number of slots on the bar make the case for one ability cast to do so much laughably well designed. They saw the problem finally with wrecking blow being the all inclusive one button wonder that hit hard, empowered and cced and decided to split it up.
And poping a nb out of stealth with volatile armor drains crazy magika and misses alot if you got feared first.
2hd bar
Unstable. Rally. Executor. Crit charge. Wrecking blow
Bow
Igneous. Vigor. Scales. Shuffle. Poison inject.
What do you replace for volatile armor?Edited by Lokey0024 on May 18, 2016 2:26AM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The limited number of slots on the bar make the case for one ability cast to do so much laughably well designed. They saw the problem finally with wrecking blow being the all inclusive one button wonder that hit hard, empowered and cced and decided to split it up.
Wrecking Blow got buffed - not nerfed.
It now acts as a better combo piece for burst with DBOS.
Currently: Wrecking Blow [CC](CC Break)->Leap/Dawnbreaker(Heals/Blocks/Dodges)
Next patch: Wrecking Blow->Dawnbreaker[CC](CC Break)->Next Skill lands(Heals/Blocks/Dodges)
You've now taken both the damage of the Wrecking Blow and Dawnbreaker before you get CC'ed, meaning you're at lower health, easier to be taken down than before.
This is also a combo you cannot make with Surprise Attack...Edited by DDuke on May 18, 2016 2:26AM2 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭Wtf you dont know what a dunk is?!? You're a troll, right? Man you had me going. Because not knowing the most basic dk combo is just... Its like not knowing to fear after ambush to make the empowered unblockable. Education time?Edited by Lokey0024 on May 18, 2016 2:49AM1
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holosoul✭✭✭✭@DDuke,
Things don't always go as planned.
I'm not gonna stand there waiting for you to combo me, assume I get at least 1 ability each time you use an ability, especially those with cast times. For example, streak; dodge roll?
You'll understand after you use it that the skill check which was the previous combo now has a much lower ELO to pass.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@DDuke,
Things don't always go as planned.
I'm not gonna stand there waiting for you to combo me, assume I get at least 1 ability each time you use an ability, especially those with cast times. For example, streak; dodge roll?
You'll understand after you use it that the skill check which was the previous combo now has a much lower ELO to pass.
You have absolutely zero idea when a combo like WB->DBOS is going to happen.
Meanwhile, knowing when a WB will CC you is a matter of counting to 5 & reacting to it is even easier.
@Lokey0024 I don't really care if you understand how these things work in PvP, but you'd do well to listen if you're to get good at it.2 -
Suru✭✭✭✭K i just pvp.
@DisgracefulMindDisgracefulMind wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »
@DisgracefulMind
Your oppinion counts just as much as mine. So rub those braincells together and make human talk, k?
How about you rub some brain cells together, learn how to read your class passives. synergize them with your class playstyle, and then come to the forums and try to discuss class balance.
Until then, sit down and let the people who know what they're talking about discuss things such as this.
We don't need anymore people who have serious l2p issues giving ZoS ideas.
k?
You said absolutely nothing of merit, again.
Good job
Re-read through DK passives again and then tell me they suck.
You have Battle Roar, you have Minor Brutality, you have increased damage to your Fire/Poison effects, you can block an additional 10% damage, you gain 3 ultimate every 6 seconds if you're using Earthen Heart abilities, activating an Earthen Heart ability also restores 5% stamina, you have increased spell resist, and an innate snare.
PLEASE TELL ME AGAIN THAT DK PASSIVES SUCK.
I'm actually wondering if you copy pasted or typed this stuff out. Well you're making an attempt so ill try to steer you.
Its about how well pvp builds mesh with passives. @DDuke kinda thought you we were on the same page, but banner? Skoria over kena/BS? Sounds like you do alot of group play, which makes running these viable. But the typical solo roller/no healer in group set up only allows for 1 variable slot and if i could cast unstable flames and get an 8% damage boost on you as well as 8% damage midigation, 3% max health just for having it slotted id think it was just a bit OP.
You are either beyond any help or just a great troll.
Suru2 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭K i just pvp.
@DisgracefulMindDisgracefulMind wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »
@DisgracefulMind
Your oppinion counts just as much as mine. So rub those braincells together and make human talk, k?
How about you rub some brain cells together, learn how to read your class passives. synergize them with your class playstyle, and then come to the forums and try to discuss class balance.
Until then, sit down and let the people who know what they're talking about discuss things such as this.
We don't need anymore people who have serious l2p issues giving ZoS ideas.
k?
You said absolutely nothing of merit, again.
Good job
Re-read through DK passives again and then tell me they suck.
You have Battle Roar, you have Minor Brutality, you have increased damage to your Fire/Poison effects, you can block an additional 10% damage, you gain 3 ultimate every 6 seconds if you're using Earthen Heart abilities, activating an Earthen Heart ability also restores 5% stamina, you have increased spell resist, and an innate snare.
PLEASE TELL ME AGAIN THAT DK PASSIVES SUCK.
I'm actually wondering if you copy pasted or typed this stuff out. Well you're making an attempt so ill try to steer you.
Its about how well pvp builds mesh with passives. @DDuke kinda thought you we were on the same page, but banner? Skoria over kena/BS? Sounds like you do alot of group play, which makes running these viable. But the typical solo roller/no healer in group set up only allows for 1 variable slot and if i could cast unstable flames and get an 8% damage boost on you as well as 8% damage midigation, 3% max health just for having it slotted id think it was just a bit OP.
You are either beyond any help or just a great troll.
Another enlightening post. What ability is this troll? Is it in a weapon skill line? If you don't have anything constructiv to add at least post facts about what you actually do know so i can use this info. Thanks!0 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭@DDuke,
Things don't always go as planned.
I'm not gonna stand there waiting for you to combo me, assume I get at least 1 ability each time you use an ability, especially those with cast times. For example, streak; dodge roll?
You'll understand after you use it that the skill check which was the previous combo now has a much lower ELO to pass.
You have absolutely zero idea when a combo like WB->DBOS is going to happen.
Meanwhile, knowing when a WB will CC you is a matter of counting to 5 & reacting to it is even easier.
@Lokey0024 I don't really care if you understand how these things work in PvP, but you'd do well to listen if you're to get good at it.
Now a hard cc or empower needed to be added to the bar. Wtb stam based empower pst. Buff huh. The one thing you posted definitively and it's questionable.
0 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭that is 2 picturesPC/EU 800 CP.
PvP MagSorc.Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq1 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@DDuke,
Things don't always go as planned.
I'm not gonna stand there waiting for you to combo me, assume I get at least 1 ability each time you use an ability, especially those with cast times. For example, streak; dodge roll?
You'll understand after you use it that the skill check which was the previous combo now has a much lower ELO to pass.
You have absolutely zero idea when a combo like WB->DBOS is going to happen.
Meanwhile, knowing when a WB will CC you is a matter of counting to 5 & reacting to it is even easier.
@Lokey0024 I don't really care if you understand how these things work in PvP, but you'd do well to listen if you're to get good at it.
Now a hard cc or empower needed to be added to the bar. Wtb stam based empower pst. Buff huh. The one thing you posted definitively and it's questionable.
Your "issues" with DK affect only you, those that actually know how to play the class will be more than okay.The Age of Wrobel.2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@DDuke,
Things don't always go as planned.
I'm not gonna stand there waiting for you to combo me, assume I get at least 1 ability each time you use an ability, especially those with cast times. For example, streak; dodge roll?
You'll understand after you use it that the skill check which was the previous combo now has a much lower ELO to pass.
You have absolutely zero idea when a combo like WB->DBOS is going to happen.
Meanwhile, knowing when a WB will CC you is a matter of counting to 5 & reacting to it is even easier.
@Lokey0024 I don't really care if you understand how these things work in PvP, but you'd do well to listen if you're to get good at it.
Now a hard cc or empower needed to be added to the bar. Wtb stam based empower pst. Buff huh. The one thing you posted definitively and it's questionable.
You still get Empower from Wrecking Blow - that's the whole point of the combo. Only the CC is delayed until you've put the target at a lower health - which is good.
Also, slotting one of the best CCs in the game, Fossilize, isn't a bad idea as a stam DK if you want a CC outside the DBOS knockdown.1 -
Inarre✭✭✭✭✭
✭To be fair if @Jules titled the post "buff list" no one would have looked at it.
Ive done expiriments before with this forum. I posted the same thread twice. Once with a neutral title and a second time titled something like "ZOMG NERF THIS SHIZZLE". Wanna take a wild guess which one sunk to the depths and which one had countless comments?
Dont hate because the community, including you since you were drawn to look at this post, loves the drama of nerf calling.5 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭@DDuke,
Things don't always go as planned.
I'm not gonna stand there waiting for you to combo me, assume I get at least 1 ability each time you use an ability, especially those with cast times. For example, streak; dodge roll?
You'll understand after you use it that the skill check which was the previous combo now has a much lower ELO to pass.
You have absolutely zero idea when a combo like WB->DBOS is going to happen.
Meanwhile, knowing when a WB will CC you is a matter of counting to 5 & reacting to it is even easier.
@Lokey0024 I don't really care if you understand how these things work in PvP, but you'd do well to listen if you're to get good at it.
Now a hard cc or empower needed to be added to the bar. Wtb stam based empower pst. Buff huh. The one thing you posted definitively and it's questionable.
Your "issues" with DK affect only you, those that actually know how to play the class will be more than okay.
So this is WB buff. By taking things away. You're ***.
For the most part sounds like the only people responding have either ulterior motives or just say nothing and spew hate. Ps4 chillrend or azuras EP. If you got the sack come show me how bad i am.
0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To be fair if @Jules titled the post "buff list" no one would have looked at it.
Ive done expiriments before with this forum. I posted the same thread twice. Once with a neutral title and a second time titled something like "ZOMG NERF THIS SHIZZLE". Wanna take a wild guess which one sunk to the depths and which one had countless comments?
Dont hate because the community, including you since you were drawn to look at this post, loves the drama of nerf calling.
It's a reality that if you don't say something controversial you don't generate controversy.
However in this case there was a doubling down on bad logic and a refusal to being remotely objective.
Regardless, flamebait and vitriol drives most threads. Fact is that most people are drawn to it because that's how they really are... I know the worst of the worst will always claim otherwise, with "I save kittens and orphans in my spare time" type regurgitated "me"isms, but reality is the type of behavior is popular because it's really the way most are. Without true repercussions to behavior, behavior is at it's worst and truest form.
This forum turns into "fire X_ZOS" at perception. Yeah let's get X_ZOS fired and let them and their family starve because I can't win every fight! That's the logic and it's merely a lack of repercussions that drives it. Real life has a way of walking up and punching you in the face and then kicking your teeth in when you behave as such.1 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@DDuke,
Things don't always go as planned.
I'm not gonna stand there waiting for you to combo me, assume I get at least 1 ability each time you use an ability, especially those with cast times. For example, streak; dodge roll?
You'll understand after you use it that the skill check which was the previous combo now has a much lower ELO to pass.
You have absolutely zero idea when a combo like WB->DBOS is going to happen.
Meanwhile, knowing when a WB will CC you is a matter of counting to 5 & reacting to it is even easier.
@Lokey0024 I don't really care if you understand how these things work in PvP, but you'd do well to listen if you're to get good at it.
Now a hard cc or empower needed to be added to the bar. Wtb stam based empower pst. Buff huh. The one thing you posted definitively and it's questionable.
Your "issues" with DK affect only you, those that actually know how to play the class will be more than okay.
So this is WB buff. By taking things away. You're ***.
For the most part sounds like the only people responding have either ulterior motives or just say nothing and spew hate. Ps4 chillrend or azuras EP. If you got the sack come show me how bad i am.
Lol, Ps4. I'd take you up on that offer in less than a heart beat.
Look dude you're not getting the bigger picture, you see ZOS remove the CC from wrecking blow and your mind gets stuck on that one thing, remove. Builds are going to change next patch, skills are going to get dropped and others are going to get slotted. People are still going to slot WB regardless of the lack of CC, they're going to slot fossilize on their back or front bar and when it's time to burst you down they're going to wrecking blow you into a leap and the leap is going to CC you anyway.
Instead of you having CC immunity during the leap ready to or already starting a heal, you'll be CC'd during the leap and thus at lower HP. The change to WB is not going to hurt any good player. I doubt you could make good on that last statement of yours and not realize what you're being told here.Edited by OdinForge on May 18, 2016 6:59PMThe Age of Wrobel.3 -
Inarre✭✭✭✭✭
✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »To be fair if @Jules titled the post "buff list" no one would have looked at it.
Ive done expiriments before with this forum. I posted the same thread twice. Once with a neutral title and a second time titled something like "ZOMG NERF THIS SHIZZLE". Wanna take a wild guess which one sunk to the depths and which one had countless comments?
Dont hate because the community, including you since you were drawn to look at this post, loves the drama of nerf calling.
It's a reality that if you don't say something controversial you don't generate controversy.
However in this case there was a doubling down on bad logic and a refusal to being remotely objective.
Regardless, flamebait and vitriol drives most threads. Fact is that most people are drawn to it because that's how they really are... I know the worst of the worst will always claim otherwise, with "I save kittens and orphans in my spare time" type regurgitated "me"isms, but reality is the type of behavior is popular because it's really the way most are. Without true repercussions to behavior, behavior is at it's worst and truest form.
This forum turns into "fire X_ZOS" at perception. Yeah let's get X_ZOS fired and let them and their family starve because I can't win every fight! That's the logic and it's merely a lack of repercussions that drives it. Real life has a way of walking up and punching you in the face and then kicking your teeth in when you behave as such.
I am not sure I necessarily follow the part about bad logic and refusal to being objective. To me that just sounds like it's feeding the vitrol and flamebait mentality that you seem to be shaking your head at. Rather than debating about the material presented the community has chosen to debate about the presenter. Which is just silly. Will driving a conversation about gameplay mechanics to a debate about whether a person playing the game is objective further game play or understanding of the game?
As I see it the OP held a simple list that was just a list of buffs. If we both acknowledge the title was most likely a bait title and held little truth about the post or intent beyond beginning a debate, then we can move beyond the subject.
All other claims of "bad logic" or "lack of objectivity" are perspective, based on assumptions the readers made when they saw the list of buffs with the title.
So we can continue to argue about whether the OP was lacking objectivity or had bad logic, or we can continue on the path of the true debate, which is, is it unbalanced to have one class loaded with certain buffs, when all classes have access to other buffs via guild and weapon skill lines, and other "OP" benefits such as class passives etc, or is it balanced inherently through these other layers each class receives in the form of skills/passives etc?1 -
Inarre✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread is like showing a nickle and a dime to a 5-year-old and asking them which one is bigger...
It's just an image with out of context data that does not come close to painting a complete or accurate picture of any class. It is certainly not reflective of the relative power balance we see between classes in Cyrodiil each day -- nor in 2.4.
Editing out the rest of your personal insults to the OP i think you have the beginning of a very interesting refute. Would you expand on it and give us examples of why you believe there is a power balance and what the "whole picture" you are seeing is?0 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@DDuke,
Things don't always go as planned.
I'm not gonna stand there waiting for you to combo me, assume I get at least 1 ability each time you use an ability, especially those with cast times. For example, streak; dodge roll?
You'll understand after you use it that the skill check which was the previous combo now has a much lower ELO to pass.
You have absolutely zero idea when a combo like WB->DBOS is going to happen.
Meanwhile, knowing when a WB will CC you is a matter of counting to 5 & reacting to it is even easier.
@Lokey0024 I don't really care if you understand how these things work in PvP, but you'd do well to listen if you're to get good at it.
Now a hard cc or empower needed to be added to the bar. Wtb stam based empower pst. Buff huh. The one thing you posted definitively and it's questionable.
Your "issues" with DK affect only you, those that actually know how to play the class will be more than okay.
So this is WB buff. By taking things away. You're ***.
For the most part sounds like the only people responding have either ulterior motives or just say nothing and spew hate. Ps4 chillrend or azuras EP. If you got the sack come show me how bad i am.
Uhlala a consolero insulting people who actually understand their stuff
Susano'o
Zerg Squad3 -
holosoul✭✭✭✭@DDuke,
Things don't always go as planned.
I'm not gonna stand there waiting for you to combo me, assume I get at least 1 ability each time you use an ability, especially those with cast times. For example, streak; dodge roll?
You'll understand after you use it that the skill check which was the previous combo now has a much lower ELO to pass.
You have absolutely zero idea when a combo like WB->DBOS is going to happen.
Meanwhile, knowing when a WB will CC you is a matter of counting to 5 & reacting to it is even easier.
@Lokey0024 I don't really care if you understand how these things work in PvP, but you'd do well to listen if you're to get good at it.
Now a hard cc or empower needed to be added to the bar. Wtb stam based empower pst. Buff huh. The one thing you posted definitively and it's questionable.
Your "issues" with DK affect only you, those that actually know how to play the class will be more than okay.
So this is WB buff. By taking things away. You're ***.
For the most part sounds like the only people responding have either ulterior motives or just say nothing and spew hate. Ps4 chillrend or azuras EP. If you got the sack come show me how bad i am.
Uhlala a consolero insulting people who actually understand their stuff
Obviously not since you failed to understand that the leap combo works because when you leap I'm in the middle of getting up with break free. Now that becomes streak and your leap doesn't work, where before you would have killed me.
You'll figure it out yourself when you play with the changes.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@DDuke,
Things don't always go as planned.
I'm not gonna stand there waiting for you to combo me, assume I get at least 1 ability each time you use an ability, especially those with cast times. For example, streak; dodge roll?
You'll understand after you use it that the skill check which was the previous combo now has a much lower ELO to pass.
You have absolutely zero idea when a combo like WB->DBOS is going to happen.
Meanwhile, knowing when a WB will CC you is a matter of counting to 5 & reacting to it is even easier.
@Lokey0024 I don't really care if you understand how these things work in PvP, but you'd do well to listen if you're to get good at it.
Now a hard cc or empower needed to be added to the bar. Wtb stam based empower pst. Buff huh. The one thing you posted definitively and it's questionable.
Your "issues" with DK affect only you, those that actually know how to play the class will be more than okay.
So this is WB buff. By taking things away. You're ***.
For the most part sounds like the only people responding have either ulterior motives or just say nothing and spew hate. Ps4 chillrend or azuras EP. If you got the sack come show me how bad i am.
Uhlala a consolero insulting people who actually understand their stuff
Obviously not since you failed to understand that the leap combo works because when you leap I'm in the middle of getting up with break free. Now that becomes streak and your leap doesn't work, where before you would have killed me.
You'll figure it out yourself when you play with the changes.
Why would you leap?
DBOS>Leap2 -
holosoul✭✭✭✭Have you actually used DBOS before? It's very difficult to use on moving targets ...
I personally still believe you will change your mind when you attempt to put your words into practice. I know that words are meaningless in this kind of discussion, but you ought to be aware that what you're talking about is pure theorycraft without practice or practical application. If you want evidence of this, go watch some of the pros use the present incarnation of DBOS, you'll see it used on CCed targets 99% of the time, and that is for a reason.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Have you actually used DBOS before? It's very difficult to use on moving targets ...
I personally still believe you will change your mind when you attempt to put your words into practice. I know that words are meaningless in this kind of discussion, but you ought to be aware that what you're talking about is pure theorycraft without practice or practical application. If you want evidence of this, go watch some of the pros use the present incarnation of DBOS, you'll see it used on CCed targets 99% of the time, and that is for a reason.
Yes, I used it all the time on my magicka templar on Live - before I started using Meteor in order to practice for Dark Brotherhood patch.
Pretty much all top magicka Sorcs use it as well at the moment - you can see it in action a lot if you look at videos of the latest EU dueling tournament.
The reason it is currently used on CCed targets only is because the skill itself doesn't CC anyone except vampires/werewolves in ww form. Next patch, it knocks down everyone, always.Edited by DDuke on May 18, 2016 9:21PM2 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭@DDuke,
Things don't always go as planned.
I'm not gonna stand there waiting for you to combo me, assume I get at least 1 ability each time you use an ability, especially those with cast times. For example, streak; dodge roll?
You'll understand after you use it that the skill check which was the previous combo now has a much lower ELO to pass.
You have absolutely zero idea when a combo like WB->DBOS is going to happen.
Meanwhile, knowing when a WB will CC you is a matter of counting to 5 & reacting to it is even easier.
@Lokey0024 I don't really care if you understand how these things work in PvP, but you'd do well to listen if you're to get good at it.
Now a hard cc or empower needed to be added to the bar. Wtb stam based empower pst. Buff huh. The one thing you posted definitively and it's questionable.
Your "issues" with DK affect only you, those that actually know how to play the class will be more than okay.
So this is WB buff. By taking things away. You're ***.
For the most part sounds like the only people responding have either ulterior motives or just say nothing and spew hate. Ps4 chillrend or azuras EP. If you got the sack come show me how bad i am.
Lol, Ps4. I'd take you up on that offer in less than a heart beat.
Look dude you're not getting the bigger picture, you see ZOS remove the CC from wrecking blow and your mind gets stuck on that one thing, remove. Builds are going to change next patch, skills are going to get dropped and others are going to get slotted. People are still going to slot WB regardless of the lack of CC, they're going to slot fossilize on their back or front bar and when it's time to burst you down they're going to wrecking blow you into a leap and the leap is going to CC you anyway.
Instead of you having CC immunity during the leap ready to or already starting a heal, you'll be CC'd during the leap and thus at lower HP. The change to WB is not going to hurt any good player. I doubt you could make good on that last statement of yours and not realize what you're being told here.
So they just stand there not blocking, or dodgerolling after they get hit for 8k huh. The reason the dk dunk is strong is if you connect WB you are empowered take flight execute that can't be blocked because they are cced.
It will still work yes obviously. Your reading comprehension is astounding to think i don't know what I'm talking about.
Now how does me saying passives need to be reworked to get them to the strength of NB passives become a l2p issue? Scrstch that. You will probably tell me to DBoS it for maximum efficiency.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@DDuke,
Things don't always go as planned.
I'm not gonna stand there waiting for you to combo me, assume I get at least 1 ability each time you use an ability, especially those with cast times. For example, streak; dodge roll?
You'll understand after you use it that the skill check which was the previous combo now has a much lower ELO to pass.
You have absolutely zero idea when a combo like WB->DBOS is going to happen.
Meanwhile, knowing when a WB will CC you is a matter of counting to 5 & reacting to it is even easier.
@Lokey0024 I don't really care if you understand how these things work in PvP, but you'd do well to listen if you're to get good at it.
Now a hard cc or empower needed to be added to the bar. Wtb stam based empower pst. Buff huh. The one thing you posted definitively and it's questionable.
Your "issues" with DK affect only you, those that actually know how to play the class will be more than okay.
So this is WB buff. By taking things away. You're ***.
For the most part sounds like the only people responding have either ulterior motives or just say nothing and spew hate. Ps4 chillrend or azuras EP. If you got the sack come show me how bad i am.
Lol, Ps4. I'd take you up on that offer in less than a heart beat.
Look dude you're not getting the bigger picture, you see ZOS remove the CC from wrecking blow and your mind gets stuck on that one thing, remove. Builds are going to change next patch, skills are going to get dropped and others are going to get slotted. People are still going to slot WB regardless of the lack of CC, they're going to slot fossilize on their back or front bar and when it's time to burst you down they're going to wrecking blow you into a leap and the leap is going to CC you anyway.
Instead of you having CC immunity during the leap ready to or already starting a heal, you'll be CC'd during the leap and thus at lower HP. The change to WB is not going to hurt any good player. I doubt you could make good on that last statement of yours and not realize what you're being told here.
So they just stand there not blocking, or dodgerolling after they get hit for 8k huh. The reason the dk dunk is strong is if you connect WB you are empowered take flight execute that can't be blocked because they are cced.
It will still work yes obviously. Your reading comprehension is astounding to think i don't know what I'm talking about.
Now how does me saying passives need to be reworked to get them to the strength of NB passives become a l2p issue? Scrstch that. You will probably tell me to DBoS it for maximum efficiency.
Oh you've got to be kidding me...
Please, have all my Nightblade passives - I'll trade them for your DK ones. Ok?
And you're still missing the point - if someone doesn't block your WB next patch he won't block your DBOS either, because you ani cancel them to land at the same time. This results in much more damage before CC effect than Wrecking Blow->Leap ever did (btw, you can still CC break mid-air & block/heal before Leap lands).2 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »To be fair if @Jules titled the post "buff list" no one would have looked at it.
Ive done expiriments before with this forum. I posted the same thread twice. Once with a neutral title and a second time titled something like "ZOMG NERF THIS SHIZZLE". Wanna take a wild guess which one sunk to the depths and which one had countless comments?
Dont hate because the community, including you since you were drawn to look at this post, loves the drama of nerf calling.
It's a reality that if you don't say something controversial you don't generate controversy.
However in this case there was a doubling down on bad logic and a refusal to being remotely objective.
Regardless, flamebait and vitriol drives most threads. Fact is that most people are drawn to it because that's how they really are... I know the worst of the worst will always claim otherwise, with "I save kittens and orphans in my spare time" type regurgitated "me"isms, but reality is the type of behavior is popular because it's really the way most are. Without true repercussions to behavior, behavior is at it's worst and truest form.
This forum turns into "fire X_ZOS" at perception. Yeah let's get X_ZOS fired and let them and their family starve because I can't win every fight! That's the logic and it's merely a lack of repercussions that drives it. Real life has a way of walking up and punching you in the face and then kicking your teeth in when you behave as such.
I am not sure I necessarily follow the part about bad logic and refusal to being objective. To me that just sounds like it's feeding the vitrol and flamebait mentality that you seem to be shaking your head at. Rather than debating about the material presented the community has chosen to debate about the presenter. Which is just silly. Will driving a conversation about gameplay mechanics to a debate about whether a person playing the game is objective further game play or understanding of the game?
As I see it the OP held a simple list that was just a list of buffs. If we both acknowledge the title was most likely a bait title and held little truth about the post or intent beyond beginning a debate, then we can move beyond the subject.
All other claims of "bad logic" or "lack of objectivity" are perspective, based on assumptions the readers made when they saw the list of buffs with the title.
So we can continue to argue about whether the OP was lacking objectivity or had bad logic, or we can continue on the path of the true debate, which is, is it unbalanced to have one class loaded with certain buffs, when all classes have access to other buffs via guild and weapon skill lines, and other "OP" benefits such as class passives etc, or is it balanced inherently through these other layers each class receives in the form of skills/passives etc?
I don't shake my head at it at all, I nod. I don't have an issue with it as I know that's just how people are and that's not ever going to change.
The lack of objectivity is the doubling down on a meaningless list.
As for the true debate... the only thing that truly matters regarding buffs is what you can have access to in a build. Not some sort of class only list, but actual playable builds and the buffs (and debuffs) they run... and that's from all sources.
I find it highly unlikely that a nightblade will have access to more in a build than other class builds, furthermore the lack of major mending makes any build that a nightblade makes inferior, particularly as stamina.
Point being you need to look at what you will have access to in a build and in a build that is actually strong and not some random collection of "buffs" to try and show nightblades have access to more of them. Regardless, I don't think they do in a build.2 -
Inarre✭✭✭✭✭
✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »To be fair if @Jules titled the post "buff list" no one would have looked at it.
Ive done expiriments before with this forum. I posted the same thread twice. Once with a neutral title and a second time titled something like "ZOMG NERF THIS SHIZZLE". Wanna take a wild guess which one sunk to the depths and which one had countless comments?
Dont hate because the community, including you since you were drawn to look at this post, loves the drama of nerf calling.
It's a reality that if you don't say something controversial you don't generate controversy.
However in this case there was a doubling down on bad logic and a refusal to being remotely objective.
Regardless, flamebait and vitriol drives most threads. Fact is that most people are drawn to it because that's how they really are... I know the worst of the worst will always claim otherwise, with "I save kittens and orphans in my spare time" type regurgitated "me"isms, but reality is the type of behavior is popular because it's really the way most are. Without true repercussions to behavior, behavior is at it's worst and truest form.
This forum turns into "fire X_ZOS" at perception. Yeah let's get X_ZOS fired and let them and their family starve because I can't win every fight! That's the logic and it's merely a lack of repercussions that drives it. Real life has a way of walking up and punching you in the face and then kicking your teeth in when you behave as such.
I am not sure I necessarily follow the part about bad logic and refusal to being objective. To me that just sounds like it's feeding the vitrol and flamebait mentality that you seem to be shaking your head at. Rather than debating about the material presented the community has chosen to debate about the presenter. Which is just silly. Will driving a conversation about gameplay mechanics to a debate about whether a person playing the game is objective further game play or understanding of the game?
As I see it the OP held a simple list that was just a list of buffs. If we both acknowledge the title was most likely a bait title and held little truth about the post or intent beyond beginning a debate, then we can move beyond the subject.
All other claims of "bad logic" or "lack of objectivity" are perspective, based on assumptions the readers made when they saw the list of buffs with the title.
So we can continue to argue about whether the OP was lacking objectivity or had bad logic, or we can continue on the path of the true debate, which is, is it unbalanced to have one class loaded with certain buffs, when all classes have access to other buffs via guild and weapon skill lines, and other "OP" benefits such as class passives etc, or is it balanced inherently through these other layers each class receives in the form of skills/passives etc?
I don't shake my head at it at all, I nod. I don't have an issue with it as I know that's just how people are and that's not ever going to change.
The lack of objectivity is the doubling down on a meaningless list.
As for the true debate... the only thing that truly matters regarding buffs is what you can have access to in a build. Not some sort of class only list, but actual playable builds and the buffs (and debuffs) they run... and that's from all sources.
I find it highly unlikely that a nightblade will have access to more in a build than other class builds, furthermore the lack of major mending makes any build that a nightblade makes inferior, particularly as stamina.
Point being you need to look at what you will have access to in a build and in a build that is actually strong and not some random collection of "buffs" to try and show nightblades have access to more of them. Regardless, I don't think they do in a build.
Not that i disagree but, to play devils advocate in interest of furthering the conversation, could it not be that by passively having access to buffs with skills in your class skill trees rather than building for buffs with specific added skills from outside trees you see a benefit above other classes?
And perhaps then it would be more insightful to compile a list of buffs that are RESTRICTED to only class skills such as major mending (i dont know of a way to get this beyond class skills correct me if im wrong) and then measure against that list.
I do however think passive buffs are what makes anything op.0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »To be fair if @Jules titled the post "buff list" no one would have looked at it.
Ive done expiriments before with this forum. I posted the same thread twice. Once with a neutral title and a second time titled something like "ZOMG NERF THIS SHIZZLE". Wanna take a wild guess which one sunk to the depths and which one had countless comments?
Dont hate because the community, including you since you were drawn to look at this post, loves the drama of nerf calling.
It's a reality that if you don't say something controversial you don't generate controversy.
However in this case there was a doubling down on bad logic and a refusal to being remotely objective.
Regardless, flamebait and vitriol drives most threads. Fact is that most people are drawn to it because that's how they really are... I know the worst of the worst will always claim otherwise, with "I save kittens and orphans in my spare time" type regurgitated "me"isms, but reality is the type of behavior is popular because it's really the way most are. Without true repercussions to behavior, behavior is at it's worst and truest form.
This forum turns into "fire X_ZOS" at perception. Yeah let's get X_ZOS fired and let them and their family starve because I can't win every fight! That's the logic and it's merely a lack of repercussions that drives it. Real life has a way of walking up and punching you in the face and then kicking your teeth in when you behave as such.
I am not sure I necessarily follow the part about bad logic and refusal to being objective. To me that just sounds like it's feeding the vitrol and flamebait mentality that you seem to be shaking your head at. Rather than debating about the material presented the community has chosen to debate about the presenter. Which is just silly. Will driving a conversation about gameplay mechanics to a debate about whether a person playing the game is objective further game play or understanding of the game?
As I see it the OP held a simple list that was just a list of buffs. If we both acknowledge the title was most likely a bait title and held little truth about the post or intent beyond beginning a debate, then we can move beyond the subject.
All other claims of "bad logic" or "lack of objectivity" are perspective, based on assumptions the readers made when they saw the list of buffs with the title.
So we can continue to argue about whether the OP was lacking objectivity or had bad logic, or we can continue on the path of the true debate, which is, is it unbalanced to have one class loaded with certain buffs, when all classes have access to other buffs via guild and weapon skill lines, and other "OP" benefits such as class passives etc, or is it balanced inherently through these other layers each class receives in the form of skills/passives etc?
I don't shake my head at it at all, I nod. I don't have an issue with it as I know that's just how people are and that's not ever going to change.
The lack of objectivity is the doubling down on a meaningless list.
As for the true debate... the only thing that truly matters regarding buffs is what you can have access to in a build. Not some sort of class only list, but actual playable builds and the buffs (and debuffs) they run... and that's from all sources.
I find it highly unlikely that a nightblade will have access to more in a build than other class builds, furthermore the lack of major mending makes any build that a nightblade makes inferior, particularly as stamina.
Point being you need to look at what you will have access to in a build and in a build that is actually strong and not some random collection of "buffs" to try and show nightblades have access to more of them. Regardless, I don't think they do in a build.
Not that i disagree but, to play devils advocate in interest of furthering the conversation, could it not be that by passively having access to buffs with skills in your class skill trees rather than building for buffs with specific added skills from outside trees you see a benefit above other classes?
And perhaps then it would be more insightful to compile a list of buffs that are RESTRICTED to only class skills such as major mending (i dont know of a way to get this beyond class skills correct me if im wrong) and then measure against that list.
I do however think passive buffs are what makes anything op.
The passives for classes are really the important thing, yes.
As for all other abilities... well, anyone who isn't going to halfass it is going to have access to every non class ability with little effort. It's not like any of them are very restrictive in the obtaining of them.
Lastly, with passives and class abilities on top of world and guild abilties it makes for a complicated picture to try and absorb.
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