Official Feedback Thread for Craft Bags

TerraDewBerry · May 2016

I have to hand it to ZOS, they have done an amazing job with the crafting bag. I could not have asked for more as someone who is a maxed crafter in all crafts. ESO will be the envy or bane of all other MMOs who struggle with bag space from now on.

Nice job ESO!

Divinius · May 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Make it available for rent via crowns. X crowns for 1 month access to craft bags. If people try funny stuff like only getting it for 1 month and loading up and not buying it again the following month;

lock stacks in bag. Ie: If you have 400 ancestor silk and you need to craft something with 100 (for example), you would need to withdraw all 400 unless you have active access via crown/eso+ rental.

This solves both the xbox problem with ESO+ and people signing up for just 1 month and abusing the system to get craft bags via both crowns and ESO+. That way you could just get 1 crown pack for 5k crowns and it would last you for 5k/x number of months. I can understand having access to bags should be regardless of whether you are sub or not, (especially since ya guys pointed out the problems with console subs), but what I cannot understand is why this bag needs to be a one off purchase.... I can agree with it being available in crown store as a rental for X crowns tho.

While I'm still adamantly against the bag being permanently available as a one-time purchase for crowns, I would have absolutely no problem with it being temporarily rentable with crowns.

The only problem I see with it is what "X" should be. With a sub, you pay $15 a month for the bag, and get 1500 crowns with it (along with all the other sub bonuses). So "X" would need to be a very low number of crowns (like 500 or less) for it to even be worth it to players. Anything much more than that, and you'd probably be stupid to not just sub. The problem is that ZOS would be stupid to rent it at that low a cost, since they would be getting much less $$$ from players than they do from a sub.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Vangy wrote: »

ContraTempo wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Parrot1986 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The issue is, if we sub 100% of the time we don't get crowns
If lucky and after we send literally20+ emails and open a ticket, we might get those crowns in 15-20 days after we paid. Then if Xbox live is partially interrupted we loose complete access to the DLC. Other games work fine so it's not Xbox live anymore, it's ZOS.
So we buy instead of sub.

It's not a business model, it's that ZOS' stuff never works as intended and they don't know how to run a business with Xbox

If you have taken over a year and still have no better way, drop the sub completely and when we buy crown packs, award the ESO plus 30 days per 1500 crowns.

That's the point and why the bag should be purchasable. There's not one person who would be OK with subbing and not getting all the perks of the sub

I apologize if I misunderstood your complaint. This is a different issue from the one I was addressing, but I 100% totally agree with you on this.

If ZOS is trying to get more subs, then first and foremost they need to get their crap together with Xbox-Live and Microsoft and make sure that subs actually work, and people get their crowns. They shouldn't be releasing a new sub-only perk in an attempt to get more subs if the whole sub system itself isn't working well on 1/3rd of their platforms. That's just stupid, and I completely agree that they need to fix this first.

I disagree with this initial quote, throwing about words like "we" and "if we sub 100% we don't get crowns" is totally wrong and presumptive that you rep everyone. I've always subbed and had an issue initially where I wasn't getting crowns, was getting all DLC and bonuses but also wasn't being charged. Did take multiple emails but after 2 months it was fixed, I got crowns backdated but didn't pay for the months I hadn't been charged and since haven't had an issue. I Agee there are issues but not for 100% of people and would doubt it's close to that number.

@Parrot1986
It's not an assumption. Go look in the Xbox tech threads
OR
Listen/watch the PAX East and prior ESO live episodes where ZOS confirms its a problem, it's not resolved, in the past because it couldn't be resolved, they refunded Xbox players the crowns they were missing for over 6 months and that as of two weeks ago, it's still an issue that ZOS is working with Xbox to come up with some possible resolutions.

It's actually a fact this the larger feedback I've shared on the subject.

Agree its still an issue and even illustrated my own experience/issue in my post not denying that.My point is you state it happens 100%and don't get crowns that's incorrect.also state sometimes lose access to DLC, I've never experienced that but accept it may happen to some. Fine calling out issues as reasons not to sub but to say its broken for everyone 100% of the time and that's why this should be purchasable is misleading.I don't mind subbing and apart from the start not had any issues since. If you've had issues fine just don't try and win debates or influence by making issues greater than they are.

@Parrot1986
100% of the time people buy ESO Plus on Xbox One:
-they dont get any ESO Plus benefits or the indicator in game
-they either never received the crowns
-have to wait 24-72 hours or longer for crowns or benefits
-have to open a ticket to get crowns or benefits after paying
-have to open multiple tickets because the tickets take too long to get addressed
-loose complete access to DLC due to a ZOS server or Xbox Live partial issue

One of those happen 100% of the time......not sure why you're even arguing about this.
-For my personal experience, regardless of using Paypal, Mastercard, VISA or a prepaid card, 100% of the time I never get my crowns at payment or after 45 - 60 days (I was told to wait this long in a prior ticket)

Its not even worth an argument because it its occurring enough for ZOS to publicly state it on ESO Live, on the forums and to the extent that they publicly announced they rewarded 100's of crowns to any account to purchased ESO Plus regardless of if it worked or not, its a larger issue than not. Large enough that locking a crafting bag feature behind it, locks out more customers due to the issue.

Are you suggesting that xbox one customers should be required to pay for a service they aren't getting fully or partially 100% of the time cause it works for you?

We shouldn't be forced to pay for a service that doesn't work that ZOS also cannot figure out how to fix 100% of the time.

perhaps its time to stop arguing and go look for yourself:

Here is them confirming the issue.... (even tho its a lie)
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3spp7t/update_on_xbox_one_crowns_issue_for_eso_plus/

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/217812/eso-plus-no-dlc-access-boost-or-crowns
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1866471/#Comment_1866471
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246730/no-eso-plus-crowns-this-month
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/221874/eso-plus-not-getting-monthly-crowns-ongoing-issue/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/175298/eso-plus-received-no-crowns
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/174145/how-do-u-get-crown-points-when-you-buy-eso-plus-on-xbox
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2666345/#Comment_2666345
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2666355#Comment_2666355
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/243908/no-crowns-rewarded-for-subbing#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/241213/not-receiving-crowns-from-monthly-subscription#latest

This is exactly why my prior suggestion was to make craft bags purchasable in the crown store.
But since so many people are saying otherwise I'm suggesting that it is made an available feature to all. I really know that that is likely improbable but inventory management is a real time consumer. Hell, it's a chore that many players have to deal with!
I find it almost a pay to win feature where in order to not waste one's time one must hand in the cash.
I find it unfair that we gotta pay every month to get a very much needed feature!

Even though I think paying for this feature alone in the crown store is somewhat not fair, I still want it be somewhat obtainable with out ESO+.

And you made the best point to why this should happen. Even though I'm a ps4 player, I still know what a hassle it is to make a ticket to get something resolved is and how annoying and frustrating the wait is for it to happen.
And now because of the Limited Time Items in the crown store it's even more unfair as by the time they resolved the issue you will have missed the oppertunity to buy the item.

My point is I totally understand.

Make it available for rent via crowns. X crowns for 1 month access to craft bags. If people try funny stuff like only getting it for 1 month and loading up and not buying it again the following month;

lock stacks in bag. Ie: If you have 400 ancestor silk and you need to craft something with 100 (for example), you would need to withdraw all 400 unless you have active access via crown/eso+ rental.

This solves both the xbox problem with ESO+ and people signing up for just 1 month and abusing the system to get craft bags via both crowns and ESO+. That way you could just get 1 crown pack for 5k crowns and it would last you for 5k/x number of months. I can understand having access to bags should be regardless of whether you are sub or not, (especially since ya guys pointed out the problems with console subs), but what I cannot understand is why this bag needs to be a one off purchase.... I can agree with it being available in crown store as a rental for X crowns tho.

Interesting idea. And the first non-sub proposal I have seen that makes any financial sense for ZOS. I seriously doubt any non-sub version will be included in the DB release because they will want to see what the impact is on subs, but I could imagine something like this being added in the Fall.

Maybe in the future like you said. I do not expect to see these bags in crown store anytime in the near future unless their sub-grab strategy tanks and dosent rake in the subs.

@Vangy
I would say the sub-grab strategy has tanked thus why we see this bag being tied to a benefit of ESO Plus.

How do you see it?

Tevalaur · May 2016

Divinius wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Make it available for rent via crowns. X crowns for 1 month access to craft bags. If people try funny stuff like only getting it for 1 month and loading up and not buying it again the following month;

lock stacks in bag. Ie: If you have 400 ancestor silk and you need to craft something with 100 (for example), you would need to withdraw all 400 unless you have active access via crown/eso+ rental.

This solves both the xbox problem with ESO+ and people signing up for just 1 month and abusing the system to get craft bags via both crowns and ESO+. That way you could just get 1 crown pack for 5k crowns and it would last you for 5k/x number of months. I can understand having access to bags should be regardless of whether you are sub or not, (especially since ya guys pointed out the problems with console subs), but what I cannot understand is why this bag needs to be a one off purchase.... I can agree with it being available in crown store as a rental for X crowns tho.

While I'm still adamantly against the bag being permanently available as a one-time purchase for crowns, I would have absolutely no problem with it being temporarily rentable with crowns.

The only problem I see with it is what "X" should be. With a sub, you pay $15 a month for the bag, and get 1500 crowns with it (along with all the other sub bonuses). So "X" would need to be a very low number of crowns (like 500 or less) for it to even be worth it to players. Anything much more than that, and you'd probably be stupid to not just sub. The problem is that ZOS would be stupid to rent it at that low a cost, since they would be getting much less $$$ from players than they do from a sub.

That's why I had suggested the ESO+ Lite subscription (for cash). You don't get crowns with the subscription or even the DLCs, but pay a low monthly rate (maybe $2-$3 US) for the other "perks" such as the bag.

It could appeal to folks angry over not getting crowns with subs, to those that don't want to sub because they already "bought" the DLCs, and to others.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Tevalaur wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Make it available for rent via crowns. X crowns for 1 month access to craft bags. If people try funny stuff like only getting it for 1 month and loading up and not buying it again the following month;

lock stacks in bag. Ie: If you have 400 ancestor silk and you need to craft something with 100 (for example), you would need to withdraw all 400 unless you have active access via crown/eso+ rental.

This solves both the xbox problem with ESO+ and people signing up for just 1 month and abusing the system to get craft bags via both crowns and ESO+. That way you could just get 1 crown pack for 5k crowns and it would last you for 5k/x number of months. I can understand having access to bags should be regardless of whether you are sub or not, (especially since ya guys pointed out the problems with console subs), but what I cannot understand is why this bag needs to be a one off purchase.... I can agree with it being available in crown store as a rental for X crowns tho.

While I'm still adamantly against the bag being permanently available as a one-time purchase for crowns, I would have absolutely no problem with it being temporarily rentable with crowns.

The only problem I see with it is what "X" should be. With a sub, you pay $15 a month for the bag, and get 1500 crowns with it (along with all the other sub bonuses). So "X" would need to be a very low number of crowns (like 500 or less) for it to even be worth it to players. Anything much more than that, and you'd probably be stupid to not just sub. The problem is that ZOS would be stupid to rent it at that low a cost, since they would be getting much less $$$ from players than they do from a sub.

That's why I had suggested the ESO+ Lite subscription (for cash). You don't get crowns with the subscription or even the DLCs, but pay a low monthly rate (maybe $2-$3 US) for the other "perks" such as the bag.

It could appeal to folks angry over not getting crowns with subs, to those that don't want to sub because they already "bought" the DLCs, and to others.

Nope, just stop selling a product that isn't being supported. That's the logical response for ZOS.

Perhaps it's only an Xbox one thing but surely it's not a good practice to sale a product that creates additional service work and tickets.

Vangy · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

ContraTempo wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Parrot1986 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The issue is, if we sub 100% of the time we don't get crowns
If lucky and after we send literally20+ emails and open a ticket, we might get those crowns in 15-20 days after we paid. Then if Xbox live is partially interrupted we loose complete access to the DLC. Other games work fine so it's not Xbox live anymore, it's ZOS.
So we buy instead of sub.

It's not a business model, it's that ZOS' stuff never works as intended and they don't know how to run a business with Xbox

If you have taken over a year and still have no better way, drop the sub completely and when we buy crown packs, award the ESO plus 30 days per 1500 crowns.

That's the point and why the bag should be purchasable. There's not one person who would be OK with subbing and not getting all the perks of the sub

I apologize if I misunderstood your complaint. This is a different issue from the one I was addressing, but I 100% totally agree with you on this.

If ZOS is trying to get more subs, then first and foremost they need to get their crap together with Xbox-Live and Microsoft and make sure that subs actually work, and people get their crowns. They shouldn't be releasing a new sub-only perk in an attempt to get more subs if the whole sub system itself isn't working well on 1/3rd of their platforms. That's just stupid, and I completely agree that they need to fix this first.

I disagree with this initial quote, throwing about words like "we" and "if we sub 100% we don't get crowns" is totally wrong and presumptive that you rep everyone. I've always subbed and had an issue initially where I wasn't getting crowns, was getting all DLC and bonuses but also wasn't being charged. Did take multiple emails but after 2 months it was fixed, I got crowns backdated but didn't pay for the months I hadn't been charged and since haven't had an issue. I Agee there are issues but not for 100% of people and would doubt it's close to that number.

@Parrot1986
It's not an assumption. Go look in the Xbox tech threads
OR
Listen/watch the PAX East and prior ESO live episodes where ZOS confirms its a problem, it's not resolved, in the past because it couldn't be resolved, they refunded Xbox players the crowns they were missing for over 6 months and that as of two weeks ago, it's still an issue that ZOS is working with Xbox to come up with some possible resolutions.

It's actually a fact this the larger feedback I've shared on the subject.

Agree its still an issue and even illustrated my own experience/issue in my post not denying that.My point is you state it happens 100%and don't get crowns that's incorrect.also state sometimes lose access to DLC, I've never experienced that but accept it may happen to some. Fine calling out issues as reasons not to sub but to say its broken for everyone 100% of the time and that's why this should be purchasable is misleading.I don't mind subbing and apart from the start not had any issues since. If you've had issues fine just don't try and win debates or influence by making issues greater than they are.

@Parrot1986
100% of the time people buy ESO Plus on Xbox One:
-they dont get any ESO Plus benefits or the indicator in game
-they either never received the crowns
-have to wait 24-72 hours or longer for crowns or benefits
-have to open a ticket to get crowns or benefits after paying
-have to open multiple tickets because the tickets take too long to get addressed
-loose complete access to DLC due to a ZOS server or Xbox Live partial issue

One of those happen 100% of the time......not sure why you're even arguing about this.
-For my personal experience, regardless of using Paypal, Mastercard, VISA or a prepaid card, 100% of the time I never get my crowns at payment or after 45 - 60 days (I was told to wait this long in a prior ticket)

Its not even worth an argument because it its occurring enough for ZOS to publicly state it on ESO Live, on the forums and to the extent that they publicly announced they rewarded 100's of crowns to any account to purchased ESO Plus regardless of if it worked or not, its a larger issue than not. Large enough that locking a crafting bag feature behind it, locks out more customers due to the issue.

Are you suggesting that xbox one customers should be required to pay for a service they aren't getting fully or partially 100% of the time cause it works for you?

We shouldn't be forced to pay for a service that doesn't work that ZOS also cannot figure out how to fix 100% of the time.

perhaps its time to stop arguing and go look for yourself:

Here is them confirming the issue.... (even tho its a lie)
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3spp7t/update_on_xbox_one_crowns_issue_for_eso_plus/

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/217812/eso-plus-no-dlc-access-boost-or-crowns
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1866471/#Comment_1866471
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/246730/no-eso-plus-crowns-this-month
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/221874/eso-plus-not-getting-monthly-crowns-ongoing-issue/p1
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/175298/eso-plus-received-no-crowns
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/174145/how-do-u-get-crown-points-when-you-buy-eso-plus-on-xbox
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2666345/#Comment_2666345
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2666355#Comment_2666355
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/243908/no-crowns-rewarded-for-subbing#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/241213/not-receiving-crowns-from-monthly-subscription#latest

This is exactly why my prior suggestion was to make craft bags purchasable in the crown store.
But since so many people are saying otherwise I'm suggesting that it is made an available feature to all. I really know that that is likely improbable but inventory management is a real time consumer. Hell, it's a chore that many players have to deal with!
I find it almost a pay to win feature where in order to not waste one's time one must hand in the cash.
I find it unfair that we gotta pay every month to get a very much needed feature!

Even though I think paying for this feature alone in the crown store is somewhat not fair, I still want it be somewhat obtainable with out ESO+.

And you made the best point to why this should happen. Even though I'm a ps4 player, I still know what a hassle it is to make a ticket to get something resolved is and how annoying and frustrating the wait is for it to happen.
And now because of the Limited Time Items in the crown store it's even more unfair as by the time they resolved the issue you will have missed the oppertunity to buy the item.

My point is I totally understand.

Make it available for rent via crowns. X crowns for 1 month access to craft bags. If people try funny stuff like only getting it for 1 month and loading up and not buying it again the following month;

lock stacks in bag. Ie: If you have 400 ancestor silk and you need to craft something with 100 (for example), you would need to withdraw all 400 unless you have active access via crown/eso+ rental.

This solves both the xbox problem with ESO+ and people signing up for just 1 month and abusing the system to get craft bags via both crowns and ESO+. That way you could just get 1 crown pack for 5k crowns and it would last you for 5k/x number of months. I can understand having access to bags should be regardless of whether you are sub or not, (especially since ya guys pointed out the problems with console subs), but what I cannot understand is why this bag needs to be a one off purchase.... I can agree with it being available in crown store as a rental for X crowns tho.

Interesting idea. And the first non-sub proposal I have seen that makes any financial sense for ZOS. I seriously doubt any non-sub version will be included in the DB release because they will want to see what the impact is on subs, but I could imagine something like this being added in the Fall.

Maybe in the future like you said. I do not expect to see these bags in crown store anytime in the near future unless their sub-grab strategy tanks and dosent rake in the subs.

@Vangy
I would say the sub-grab strategy has tanked thus why we see this bag being tied to a benefit of ESO Plus.

How do you see it?

@NewBlacksmurf

Yup it has tanked thus far because as many keep mentioning on these forums including myself, there is no benefit to an ESO+ subscription. Or rather tangible benefit. The 1500 crowns per month + free access to DLC while subbed + the meagre 10% bonuses dont justify the price of ard SGD$240 per year. (for me cos I live in Singapore). I could get all the DLC's + some costumes and mounts for just three or four 5k crown packs a year which is far cheaper than that 240$SGD I have to fork out. Hence they are trying to throw in more incentives for ESO+. With the craft bags incoming for ESO+ I have turned my sub on again. If enough people get a sub cos of the craft bags then its likely that craft bags would stay as an ESO+ benefit. But if not enough people get ESO+, then we could potentially see these in crown stores. At least that's how I see it.

Coolio_Wolfus · May 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Craft Bags. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

Were you able to find the Craft Bag?
Yes
Did you understand when items you picked up went into the Craft Bag?
Yes
Did you understand what items go into the Craft Bag, and which ones do not?
Yes
Did you understand how to pull items out of the Craft Bag to trade or mail them?
Yes, but could do with a popup hint for those not used to the right click options.
Do you understand how crafting is integrated into the Craft Bag?
Yes, but be aware Poison crafting items can confuse players trying to get the Alchemy crafting certificate.
Did you notice any other players using their Craft Bags? (Specifically, did you notice the new Craft Bag model?)
Yes, as with these 'display' items it would be nice to see your character in the background facing the screen using the item rather than just facing the screen in a static pose with a menu up.
Were there any items that you feel should have been included in the Craft Bag?
Maps* - All, with crafting writ maps showing their currently hidden crafting level.
Disguises* - Once their quest is complete if you wish to keep these costume looks they take up bag or bank space unlike Costume and Memento rewards, however these could have a section in there instead.
Collectables - Including the rare fish - If you wish to keep these they take up so much inventory space!!!
Laundered Treasures - Not automatically Craft Bagged, but allowing for storage of these for chat linking and maybe later house display.
How much backpack and bank space did you free up when your items moved into your Craft Bag?
About 220 slots, which I'll now use to hoard trait research items, Maps*, Disguises*, etc.
Do you have any other general feedback?
Would be nice if the bait items used a Fishing Hook icon section and the main Materials icon greyed out when empty.
(See Randactyl's Advanced Filters addon for examples of this.)

Darkheart · May 2016

I look forward to this!

them.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

Coolio_Wolfus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Craft Bags. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

Were you able to find the Craft Bag?
Yes

Did you understand when items you picked up went into the Craft Bag?
Yes

Did you understand what items go into the Craft Bag, and which ones do not?
Yes

Did you understand how to pull items out of the Craft Bag to trade or mail them?
Yes, but could do with a popup hint for those not used to the right click options.

Do you understand how crafting is integrated into the Craft Bag?
Yes, but be aware Poison crafting items can confuse players trying to get the Alchemy crafting certificate.

Did you notice any other players using their Craft Bags? (Specifically, did you notice the new Craft Bag model?)
Yes, as with these 'display' items it would be nice to see your character in the background facing the screen using the item rather than just facing the screen in a static pose with a menu up.

Were there any items that you feel should have been included in the Craft Bag?
Maps* - All, with crafting writ maps showing their currently hidden crafting level.
Disguises* - Once their quest is complete if you wish to keep these costume looks they take up bag or bank space unlike Costume and Memento rewards, however these could have a section in there instead.
Collectables - Including the rare fish - If you wish to keep these they take up so much inventory space!!!
Laundered Treasures - Not automatically Craft Bagged, but allowing for storage of these for chat linking and maybe later house display.

How much backpack and bank space did you free up when your items moved into your Craft Bag?
About 220 slots, which I'll now use to hoard trait research items, Maps*, Disguises*, etc.

Do you have any other general feedback?
Would be nice if the bait items used a Fishing Hook icon section and the main Materials icon greyed out when empty.
(See Randactyl's Advanced Filters addon for examples of this.)

Agree on th bold part

helediron · May 2016

When viewing the bag, i'd like to see my inventory space. I may sometimes move stuff between bag and guild banks. So i may pull up big amount of stuff into inventory.

nathan_bri · May 2016

“For us, it was about finding our audience,” Firor says. “ESO is really as much an RPG as it is an MMO, and subscription resonated with one half of the audience but not the other half. RPG players, Skyrim players, were just not used to that.”

Except if you want crafting bags. For that, you evidently have to subscribe. So to heck with the players who embraced the other payment model, especially because it meant they could walk away from the game for a few months without wasting $15 each month due to terrible server problems.

gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-05-19-the-elder-scrolls-online-added-millions-of-new-players-in-2015

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

nathan_bri wrote: »

“For us, it was about finding our audience,” Firor says. “ESO is really as much an RPG as it is an MMO, and subscription resonated with one half of the audience but not the other half. RPG players, Skyrim players, were just not used to that.”

Except if you want crafting bags. For that, you evidently have to subscribe. So to heck with the players who embraced the other payment model, especially because it meant they could walk away from the game for a few months without wasting $15 each month due to terrible server problems.

gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-05-19-the-elder-scrolls-online-added-millions-of-new-players-in-2015

Exactly it's as if ZOS is expressing one customer is favored over another. That's bad for future business success. Especially because it's not even close to 50-50.

It's at best 1:3 where 1/3rd was used to a sub but knowing that millions more embraced the non-sub model, it's a terrible ZOS logic to lock a crafting bag to a sub @ZOS_MattFiror

newtinmpls · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's at best 1:3 where 1/3rd was used to a sub but knowing that millions more embraced the non-sub model, it's a terrible ZOS logic to lock a crafting bag to a sub @ZOS_MattFiror

On the one hand, I doubt that anyone other than ZoS has access to the data that say who does more of what.

On the other, if it is slanted toward the non-sub, then it makes total sense. If it generates more subs = more stable income = good for ZoS.

umagon · May 2016

I haven't read every post so I am not sure if this has been suggested or not. But from my understanding the subscription crafting bags are unlimited. Why not just place a crafting bag on the crown store with 50 or 100 slot limit for a fixed price? So subscribers would have unlimited space but non-subscribers still could get something.

Tevalaur · May 2016

umagon wrote: »

I haven't read every post so I am not sure if this has been suggested or not. But from my understanding the subscription crafting bags are unlimited. Why not just place a crafting bag on the crown store with 50 or 100 slot limit for a fixed price? So subscribers would have unlimited space but non-subscribers still could get something.

50 or 100 slots would be very insufficient as there's closer to 300 individual types of crafting materials currently in the game, and more coming even with DB when poison mats are added and new style mats for the new styles. Limiting the stack size rather than such a small number of individual slots would make more sense.

umagon · May 2016

Tevalaur wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

I haven't read every post so I am not sure if this has been suggested or not. But from my understanding the subscription crafting bags are unlimited. Why not just place a crafting bag on the crown store with 50 or 100 slot limit for a fixed price? So subscribers would have unlimited space but non-subscribers still could get something.

50 or 100 slots would be very insufficient as there's closer to 300 individual types of crafting materials currently in the game, and more coming even with DB when poison mats are added and new style mats for the new styles. Limiting the stack size rather than such a small number of individual slots would make more sense.

I have all of the crafting types maxed on my character and I could not see a time where I would have to carry every crafting material in the game. I would image most are only carrying end game or next to end game and the upgrade materials. People who do collect every crafting material could just buy a subscription seeing they are the ones storing the most data on the server. I would be happy with 50 extra crafting slots that could be purchased via dlc.

Coolio_Wolfus · May 2016

For those who prefer not to sub, the shortest term sub would clear their characters and bank of crafting materials until it expires, when you can still access the bag to craft from or remove from just not add anything to it, so after a short tidy bank situ sub it would be back to hoarding on mules with the former bank blocking supplies in the bag.

Divinius · May 2016

Dear ZOS Forum Mods:

Could you please take the time to split off all the posts in this thread regarding the inane discussion of whether the craft bag should be in the crown store or not, to a separate thread?

That way, we can ignore that other thread, and this thread can be used as intended, to actually discuss the technical details about the bag itself so we can make sure it works correctly?

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's at best 1:3 where 1/3rd was used to a sub but knowing that millions more embraced the non-sub model, it's a terrible ZOS logic to lock a crafting bag to a sub @ZOS_MattFiror

On the one hand, I doubt that anyone other than ZoS has access to the data that say who does more of what.

On the other, if it is slanted toward the non-sub, then it makes total sense. If it generates more subs = more stable income = good for ZoS.

@newtinmpls
There isn't any data needed because ZOS already shared this past and present that the consoles AND PC groups largely desired a game without a sub. At its highest during the sub phase, was less than 1 mil total.

Now there are millions of customers total (with and without subs). It's why any features being exclusive to a sub is outside of logical. Enhancing features with a sub does make sense.

Point blank....crafting bags should have a max slot of maybe 200 without a sub and unlimited* with a sub but be purchase able or earned in some other forms and fashions via crown store or in-game.

Heck at a min, make them like inventory and bank slots with a min and expand via gold and crowns.

DMBCML · May 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Craft Bags. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

**snip**]

Is it possible to put equipment for research and deconstruction in the craft bag? It could be made to only be used for crafting once it goes in there so people don't abuse it.

Tevalaur · May 2016

umagon wrote: »

Tevalaur wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

I haven't read every post so I am not sure if this has been suggested or not. But from my understanding the subscription crafting bags are unlimited. Why not just place a crafting bag on the crown store with 50 or 100 slot limit for a fixed price? So subscribers would have unlimited space but non-subscribers still could get something.

50 or 100 slots would be very insufficient as there's closer to 300 individual types of crafting materials currently in the game, and more coming even with DB when poison mats are added and new style mats for the new styles. Limiting the stack size rather than such a small number of individual slots would make more sense.

I have all of the crafting types maxed on my character and I could not see a time where I would have to carry every crafting material in the game. I would image most are only carrying end game or next to end game and the upgrade materials. People who do collect every crafting material could just buy a subscription seeing they are the ones storing the most data on the server. I would be happy with 50 extra crafting slots that could be purchased via dlc.

Some folks have lower level alts or craft for guildies and others, so need mats of various levels. Glad it doesn't affect you, but such a small bag would be short-sighted in my opinion when they're about to try to sell additional character slots -- that presumably will start at level 1 again

newtinmpls · May 2016

Let me make the point that the first point on crafting bags that I am trying to make is NOT about how many subs there ARE.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ZOS already shared this past and present that the consoles AND PC groups largely desired a game without a sub. At its highest during the sub phase, was less than 1 mil total.

Now there are millions of customers total (with and without subs). It's why any features being exclusive to a sub is outside of logical. Enhancing features with a sub does make sense.

IF having a crafting bag (a benefit that is clearly "quality of life" rather than "Pay to win") makes a subscription more desirable, AND ZoS wants more people to subscribe, THEN it is a wise choice on their part.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

crafting bags should have a max slot of maybe 200 without a sub and unlimited* with a sub but be purchase able or earned in some other forms and fashions via crown store or in-game.

Heck at a min, make them like inventory and bank slots with a min and expand via gold and crowns.

IF you are saying that you do not want to subscribe, and you would be LESS tempted to subscribe if ZoS had a version of a crafting bag available to non-subscribers THEN it doesn't make logical/financial sense for ZoS to offer such a thing.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

Let me make the point that the first point on crafting bags that I am trying to make is NOT about how many subs there ARE.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ZOS already shared this past and present that the consoles AND PC groups largely desired a game without a sub. At its highest during the sub phase, was less than 1 mil total.

Now there are millions of customers total (with and without subs). It's why any features being exclusive to a sub is outside of logical. Enhancing features with a sub does make sense.

IF having a crafting bag (a benefit that is clearly "quality of life" rather than "Pay to win") makes a subscription more desirable, AND ZoS wants more people to subscribe, THEN it is a wise choice on their part.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

crafting bags should have a max slot of maybe 200 without a sub and unlimited* with a sub but be purchase able or earned in some other forms and fashions via crown store or in-game.

Heck at a min, make them like inventory and bank slots with a min and expand via gold and crowns.

IF you are saying that you do not want to subscribe, and you would be LESS tempted to subscribe if ZoS had a version of a crafting bag available to non-subscribers THEN it doesn't make logical/financial sense for ZoS to offer such a thing.

@newtinmpls
Point blank...if you're offering a new feature, it should be offered as a base game option.
The subscription should ONLY enhance options, not create exclusive features. The fact that doing this isn't anything of pay2win but literally going against the whole point of removing the sub requirement.

In addition....ZOS can't offer a sub to us Xbox One customers like its offered on ps4 and PC. Bottom line, you're ruining potential customer purchases when you lock a feature behind only one access point that's been broken since launch and one that's not favored by many.

If they want ppl to sub, fix the problems and double the existing benefits. Only crafters and farmers see benefit to the bag.

Vangy · May 2016

Wow this thread is still going strong.... Dosent matter what we think guys. ZOS will make the decision based on the most $$ earnable by them. Im guessing thyre going to wait and see for a few months how many people actually get the sub. And how many subbers stay subbed etc etc. Based on these statistics, im sure they have some internal math $$ whizzes who will make the call on how they should move forward. In any case, I don't see these bags coming out for non-sub anytime soon. Maybe if their plan tanks, they might come out in half a year on crown store.

Elsonso · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

There isn't any data needed because ZOS already shared this past and present that the consoles AND PC groups largely desired a game without a sub. At its highest during the sub phase, was less than 1 mil total.

Now there are millions of customers total (with and without subs). It's why any features being exclusive to a sub is outside of logical. Enhancing features with a sub does make sense.

Point blank....crafting bags should have a max slot of maybe 200 without a sub and unlimited* with a sub but be purchase able or earned in some other forms and fashions via crown store or in-game.

Heck at a min, make them like inventory and bank slots with a min and expand via gold and crowns.

How many subscribers? All we have to go on is the PR and Firor says that "half" of the community was fine with the subscription model, namely the MMO people, while half was not, namely the Elder Scrolls people. I am actually in both camps, and you can see from my signature that I do use ESO Plus.

They may be putting the crafting bags on ESO Plus simply because it puts them in the hands of the majority of the players. This would be the people who are already ESO Plus, or have been in the past. I expect they are seeing "on and off" subscriptions as people subscribe for the Crowns to buy the DLC. This encourages the people to maintain, renew or resume, their ESO Plus membership. It is well suited for this purpose.

What do I think is the adoption rate of ESO Plus? I suspect it is probably close to 50%. Back when a certain add-on was displaying whether a player was ESO Plus or not, I can say that there were a whole lot of ESO Plus people on my screen. Well more than half in many places.

Now, as to the crafting bag itself. It is flashy and showy, and that may be part of the equation. If they really wanted to just give the ESO Plus people something extra, they could have simply said "50 (or 100, or 200) extra bank and bag slots with subscription" and been done with it. They could have even added larger stack size for crafting mats. They could have increased this as crafting materials were added. I am sure they considered this angle and rejected it, although I think they are a bit crazy for doing so. This says a lot about the motives and goals of the bag.

GRYM.LOCKE · May 2016

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_GinaBruno

What happens "if" / when this goes live and screws up our items and we loose out materials

are you 100% sure no items will be lost when we
1: deposit items
2: update client to using the craft bag which then when you login deposits them all automatically

Elsonso · May 2016

GRYM.LOCKE wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_GinaBruno

What happens "if" / when this goes live and screws up our items and we loose out materials

are you 100% sure no items will be lost when we
1: deposit items
2: update client to using the craft bag which then when you login deposits them all automatically

I am not. On the eve of the drop (May 30) I will go into each character and screen capture everything in my inventory and everything in my bank. This won't guarantee a timely restoration of missing or lost stuff, or even guarantee that it will be restored, but it is all I can do.

Or... I could take May 31 off and play something else while all the rest of you beta test for me.

Divinius · May 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

GRYM.LOCKE wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_GinaBruno

What happens "if" / when this goes live and screws up our items and we loose out materials

are you 100% sure no items will be lost when we
1: deposit items
2: update client to using the craft bag which then when you login deposits them all automatically

I am not. On the eve of the drop (May 30) I will go into each character and screen capture everything in my inventory and everything in my bank. This won't guarantee a timely restoration of missing or lost stuff, or even guarantee that it will be restored, but it is all I can do.

Or... I could take May 31 off and play something else while all the rest of you beta test for me.

I am also not convinced that the craft bags are going to be working properly come live. My ESO+ sub renews on June 2nd, and I'm seriously considering cancelling it now, and not logging in at all between May 31st and June 3rd. After that, I'll play as normal, without the craft bag enabled, until we are sure that it isn't still broken.

Once it's confirmed working properly on live, I'll gladly sub to ESO+ again to get it.

Elsonso · May 2016

Divinius wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

GRYM.LOCKE wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_GinaBruno

What happens "if" / when this goes live and screws up our items and we loose out materials

are you 100% sure no items will be lost when we
1: deposit items
2: update client to using the craft bag which then when you login deposits them all automatically

I am not. On the eve of the drop (May 30) I will go into each character and screen capture everything in my inventory and everything in my bank. This won't guarantee a timely restoration of missing or lost stuff, or even guarantee that it will be restored, but it is all I can do.

Or... I could take May 31 off and play something else while all the rest of you beta test for me.

I am also not convinced that the craft bags are going to be working properly come live. My ESO+ sub renews on June 2nd, and I'm seriously considering cancelling it now, and not logging in at all between May 31st and June 3rd. After that, I'll play as normal, without the craft bag enabled, until we are sure that it isn't still broken.

Once it's confirmed working properly on live, I'll gladly sub to ESO+ again to get it.

That's not a bad idea, for your situation.

I just wish I could trust ZOS quality to the point where I would not be spending time in the game protecting myself from bugs.

newtinmpls · May 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@newtinmpls
Point blank...if you're offering a new feature, it should be offered as a base game option.

I understand you to mean that since you do not (apparently effectively cannot) sub, you want to have access to every option.

A business will do what it takes to maximize profit. I'm sure they would very much like to offer subs to every customer.

OTOH, I don't really know anything about the long-term longevity of non-PC customers (as I only actually know one person who plays on a console, and since he is technically also a PCer, I don't think it counts).

IF most of the Xbox One customers are shorter-term, AND the boosting of sub benefits is meant to maximize longer-term play (as would be inherent in a sub). THEN it might be worth it to have to forgo offering sub benefits to them. I'm not saying it's nice. I'm saying that it might be financially viable.
[/quote]

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If they want ppl to sub, fix the problems and double the existing benefits. Only crafters and farmers see benefit to the bag.

I don't find it in the realm of rationality that ZoS is NOT trying to fix the various problems. Upgrading my computer (well getting a whole new one) addressed a LOT of my lag (no, not all of it, but it's much better).

And lastly, your point that "only crafters and farmers see benefit to the bag" makes me wonder if, indeed, those are the very folks most likely to actually be subbing.

I don't farm (hate it with a bloody passion), but I do craft.

As far as the original question on this thread - I think I understand (from a non-PTS perspective) how the bags are supposed to work. I'm slightly terrified of losing mats... as has apparently happened on PTS, so I'll be cautious.

But since I spend way too much time mailing back and forth all the crap I can't fit into my bank or bags, I'm really really really looking forward to it.
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