Artis wrote: »

You should read the whole post first before commenting. You accuse me of wanting to use boethia scythe on lowbie toons, when I clearly said that Titles that require skills shouldn't be account-wide. However fishing etc must be account wide. They do no require skill. And whatever, I don't even care about being able to craft in that motif until it is earned separately on a specific character. All I want is not to have a feeling that I'm no longer progressing.

And I am saying, its either all or none. Because skill or none, all achievements require effort. Be it skill, luck or simple time.
IF you want the angler achievement account-wide, you have to allow the same for every other achievement as well. Besides, considering what a pain in the bu... uhm... posterior the master angler can be, I would say it requires skill as well - the skill of patience!

And if you want not to have a feeling that you are no longer progressing... why do you want everything handed to you on a silver platter?

Artis wrote: »

When I know I got 16k+ achievement points and then I create an alt with 0 points, I am not progressing until I reach those 16k+ points first. And then if I earn something new - I'm progressing. And not even this. I just want to be able to know what achievements I got as a player.

Like mentioned... I would no oppose a "account achievement tab" - as long as it is Seperate from the individual achievements, and there was no account wide stuff associated with it.

This tab could open from the character select screen, and show account wide achievements... just for you... including combined kill stats and so on, so you can know exactly how many chickens you fowly murdered all over your toons.

But... no wearing a "Master Angler" title on one toon because that characters father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate (aka your other character) had the patience to fish all the rare fishies, everywhere. Or if you prefer, you had the patience to carry that one through all those fishingson that character.

That is the problem I have with it, that people cry for account wide stuff because "they the player have done it already", a completely invalid reasoning for anyone who actually understands -characters- as more then a set of stats.

Artis wrote: »

p.s. This is not true (italic in quote) on a bigger scale. You just omit the context. The game is designed for the account. What happened to your consistency and integrity? Why don't you ask for separate banks and guilds for a character? They are account wide. When I type something in a guild chat or whisper a friend - they see my account name. Costumes, pets, mementos are account-wide. Yes, mementos which you get for completing public dungeons with one character can be used by all characters! So how come titles/motifs etc should be different? And why don't you say that one should buy pets/costumes/skins for each character separately? Want it twice, buy it twice! Isn't that what you said? So where you protesting against those features when they were implemented? If yes - post a prooflink to a thread where this was going on. Because if not - you don't really want things to be character specific. You are just trolling us. We want something more convenient for us, like the fact that costumes/pets/mementos/bank/guilds are shared. The next logical step that is long overdue is to share achievements.

Personally I would have been happy with seperate banks and especially guilds...
As for whispers and guild talk, since those are generally out of character stuff... it fits. I would have a problem if "say" was per account name, but lucky me I do play on PC and not console.
As for the rest, PD trophies and such... they -used- to be per character, but with the collection system became account wide. I was not happy about it... but I am not as delusional to think the powers that be would change their mind because little me were to protest (or threaten or whatever - I know there are people like that, I have seen the forum discussions..).
But that is what I mean when I say, ESO already gave MORE account wide then any other game I ever played. And yet, people still demand more, more more. Which makes me think those people are foolish and greedy. (which sounds about right for... people...)

I have no problems with the costumes and such being account wide, since those are paid for by real money (would have had no problem with them being individual-character stuff either, but it does not really bother me that they are account wide, since I buy them per character anyways, and hardly ever use them cross character).
But the achievements are different, they for me are character progress just like stat points or skill points or riding training or crafting research or gear.
You want all that account wide, I presume from your line of argument? To drain all replayability from ESO, and then when you have it, leave in disgust, posting a huge "this game has nothing left to work towards" complaint thread on the forums, I would think?

Artis wrote: »

Are you? Some humanities major will accuse me of the lack of understanding? You might have troubles with abstract thinking, but yes it's a player who does all this mindless grind. And if you want to use your "logic" strictly, I am not asking for a player to a title floating over his head, but for his characters anyways.

And I am saying, the achievements Do Not Exist in the real world, but only in the game, where your character earned them. Yes, the player played the character through all of it, but the achievement is as virtual as the character. Just like your characters gear, really. Do you demand your loot drops to be copied to every one of your characters because "the player earned them"? No, wait... you sound like exactly the kind of person who would demand that...
And yes, I consider your argument just as ludicrous as that.

Artis wrote: »

And yes, it does mean that the player gets the skyshard, that the player gets the title and the style. Because it's the player who puts effort, not the character. The character is just a tool. Is it Einstein who is a Nobel laureate or his pencil? Because that's what you're saying. That it's not P. Kane who has the NHL champion title and got the Art Ross trophy, but his hockey stick.

Wrong. That is not how it works. That is not how any of this works.
And you are saying, you want it to work that way, but that does not make it work that way.
The basics of computer gaming involving characters is, the character gets the stuff, the account does not exist. That is how it started. Start a new character in any of the old games, and you'll have to earn it all over again.
Then later on, there were accounts, with consoles and online games. And in some cases, the game designers were generous, and gave more stuff account wide.
And now you say, because they were generous, you somehow -deserve- to have it all account wide?
That my definitely non-friend, is a somewhat skewed way of thinking.

The characters may be virtual, but they are not tools but -characters-. Like the ones played by an actor. So if you get a title with your character, you do not get the title as a RL person, just like an actor playing a king is not a king in RL - and just like the actor playing a different character is not a king on the second character, who might be something... completely different.
If you cannot make that distinction, then you have a problem.
So the achievements of that character remain for that character, and not for the player. Your character may be the best swordsman in all tamriel, but that does not neccessarily mean you-the-player will win an olympic gold in saber, now does it?

So, there IS a difference between character and player.

But if it helps, think of the characters as the cars we drive through the game.
And the achievements are the bumper stickers.
Imagine you are rich enough to have a couple of cars... and you manage to find/earn/win an super-duper-rare bumper sticker with one car, slap it on, and bask in the glory of having such a nifty sticker to parade around.
Does that mean you suddenly have the same sticker on all your cars?
No?
Then why should it work with archievements again???

Artis wrote: »

I'm not even asking to display title before conditions are met on a particular character, but I want to see my progress regardless of the hockey stick I'm using in this period/match.

And I say again... as long as there is no shared progress, I have no problem whatsoever with some indication of "earned on an alt". Or even a "running account total" on the character select screen.
I personally see no value in it, but... I can accpet that maybe you do.

But if you make the achievement account wide, and every character pitches in for the 500 mudcrab kills... the achievment would be lessened since it would no longer require any effort, but be far more easily attainable. Which would be quite an slap into the face of those who Do spend effort on their ESO "bumper stickers"

And characters who have not done the effort, could not do the effort, get to wear prominent titles. Which would lessen those titles value immensely.

And finally... I really see no reason for the powers that be put in effort better spent elsewhere to change the current character-specific system just because some people are not willing to put in the extra effort for when they make an extra character.

Dromede wrote: »

Also, vet dungeon achievements give a good amount of Undaunted points and xp per character, and I'd like to enhance my leveling experience of each toon with them. Sharing achievements account-wide would take away from that.

No, you would still get achievements on other toons when you complete them. You'd just see your accounts achievements overall. Think of WoW's system.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

And I am saying, its either all or none. Because skill or none, all achievements require effort. Be it skill, luck or simple time.
IF you want the angler achievement account-wide, you have to allow the same for every other achievement as well. Besides, considering what a pain in the bu... uhm... posterior the master angler can be, I would say it requires skill as well - the skill of patience!

And if you want not to have a feeling that you are no longer progressing... why do you want everything handed to you on a silver platter?

And this makes no sense. Unless you're a masochist. Skill of patience? Please. I don't everything on silver platter. Vice versa, I want to see whatever I earned. If I showed my skill of patience - then I showed my skill of patience. You shouldn't require me to do it again.

I am not telling you that all toons share all achievements. The point is that you SEE achievements you earned as a player. Basically think of two tabs like in wow. One has achievements combined, the other one has achievements of whichever character you're online with atm.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Like mentioned... I would no oppose a "account achievement tab" - as long as it is Seperate from the individual achievements, and there was no account wide stuff associated with it.

This tab could open from the character select screen, and show account wide achievements... just for you... including combined kill stats and so on, so you can know exactly how many chickens you fowly murdered all over your toons.

But... no wearing a "Master Angler" title on one toon because that characters father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate (aka your other character) had the patience to fish all the rare fishies, everywhere. Or if you prefer, you had the patience to carry that one through all those fishingson that character.

That is the problem I have with it, that people cry for account wide stuff because "they the player have done it already", a completely invalid reasoning for anyone who actually understands -characters- as more then a set of stats.

That's is what I'm saying. There should be a tab for all achieves combined. And no, Master Angler can be earned on any character - it doesn't matter. Unlike dungeons, where you need to have skill for a particular class, Angler is the same for any class/build and therefore can be account-wide. Moreover, if you got Alik'r desert achievement on one toon and Rivenspire on another one - they both should contribute to Master Angler overall.

Obviously it's not the case with Master Angler and such.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Personally I would have been happy with seperate banks and especially guilds...
As for whispers and guild talk, since those are generally out of character stuff... it fits. I would have a problem if "say" was per account name, but lucky me I do play on PC and not console.
As for the rest, PD trophies and such... they -used- to be per character, but with the collection system became account wide. I was not happy about it... but I am not as delusional to think the powers that be would change their mind because little me were to protest (or threaten or whatever - I know there are people like that, I have seen the forum discussions..).
But that is what I mean when I say, ESO already gave MORE account wide then any other game I ever played. And yet, people still demand more, more more. Which makes me think those people are foolish and greedy. (which sounds about right for... people...)

I have no problems with the costumes and such being account wide, since those are paid for by real money (would have had no problem with them being individual-character stuff either, but it does not really bother me that they are account wide, since I buy them per character anyways, and hardly ever use them cross character).
But the achievements are different, they for me are character progress just like stat points or skill points or riding training or crafting research or gear.
You want all that account wide, I presume from your line of argument? To drain all replayability from ESO, and then when you have it, leave in disgust, posting a huge "this game has nothing left to work towards" complaint thread on the forums, I would think?

You were against? So send the link to the thread where you were against.
Oh really? MORE account-wide than any game? Omg, play WOW then, which is the etalon for MMOs pretty much. Then you'll understand what I'm talking about. There you still earn achievement per toon, but if you go to armory - you see achievements combined. So you can see how many points a player earned. Which makes sense whenever you talk about a player who got all achievements first. It doesn't matter on which toons. After all, completing vMA again won't give you more points. You can only get 100% points if you complete all unique achievements. People aren't foolish and greedy. People want what's logical and what should've been implemented from the start. If you go back to 2014 you'll see topics about that, pretty sure I commented there too. I left that in feedback too during the beta tests.

Oh no problem? What about skins,pets and costumes that you loot? Like sewers costumes and pet, like vMOL skin? Like Thieves guild costume? Those are earned by a character but are account-wide. And thank God they are. Did you protest against those changed? Link please.

Obviously skill points are not account-wide. Even though it would be more convenient, because it's dumb that I have to collect skyshards with different toons because it requires 0 skill, no one is arguing about that. We aren't talking about skill points, or attribute points, or undaunted level etc. We are talking just about achievement points, dyes and SOME titles.

No I don't want all of that account-wide. Please, I'm asking you, please READ what I'm typing. I want a system similar to wow. Where I can see account's points for unique achievements combined + achievements on a specific toon. And you will get more points for this toon as you earn an achievement. So you STILL do have that progress. You just feel like you are still progressing no matter which toon you play.

I'll repeat it again. When I have 16k+ on my main, I am NOT PROGRESSING on my alt until I reach that amount. THAT would make me leave. And THAT stops me from playing alts seriously.

NONE of what you're concerned about would happen if you used my idea.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

And I am saying, the achievements Do Not Exist in the real world, but only in the game, where your character earned them. Yes, the player played the character through all of it, but the achievement is as virtual as the character. Just like your characters gear, really. Do you demand your loot drops to be copied to every one of your characters because "the player earned them"? No, wait... you sound like exactly the kind of person who would demand that...
And yes, I consider your argument just as ludicrous as that.

Do not bring real world into this. It's irrelevant. It's you who completed the achievements. Characters are just your tools. All the achievements that aren't tool-specific must be shared up to the titles. The ones that are tool-specific shouldn't share titles. That's it. Very simple. You still see all the points in a subtab, but you can't use tool-specific titles if you didn't do this work with this particular tool.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Wrong. That is not how it works. That is not how any of this works.
And you are saying, you want it to work that way, but that does not make it work that way.
The basics of computer gaming involving characters is, the character gets the stuff, the account does not exist. That is how it started. Start a new character in any of the old games, and you'll have to earn it all over again.
Then later on, there were accounts, with consoles and online games. And in some cases, the game designers were generous, and gave more stuff account wide.
And now you say, because they were generous, you somehow -deserve- to have it all account wide?
That my definitely non-friend, is a somewhat skewed way of thinking.

The characters may be virtual, but they are not tools but -characters-. Like the ones played by an actor. So if you get a title with your character, you do not get the title as a RL person, just like an actor playing a king is not a king in RL - and just like the actor playing a different character is not a king on the second character, who might be something... completely different.
If you cannot make that distinction, then you have a problem.
So the achievements of that character remain for that character, and not for the player. Your character may be the best swordsman in all tamriel, but that does not neccessarily mean you-the-player will win an olympic gold in saber, now does it?

So, there IS a difference between character and player.

But if it helps, think of the characters as the cars we drive through the game.
And the achievements are the bumper stickers.
Imagine you are rich enough to have a couple of cars... and you manage to find/earn/win an super-duper-rare bumper sticker with one car, slap it on, and bask in the glory of having such a nifty sticker to parade around.
Does that mean you suddenly have the same sticker on all your cars?
No?
Then why should it work with archievements again???

It's exactly how it works. It's not Einstein's pen or notebook who has the Nobel Laureate title. It's not Kane's hockey stick who has the NHL champion title.

The basics of hockey involving hockey sticks is the hockey stick gets the stuff, the player doesn't exist. That's what you are saying, it makes no sense. And dont' refer to old games. They are irrelevant. It's 2016 if you didn't notice. Even WoW that started in 2006 and introduced achievements in 2008 switched to account-wide achievements in 2012 - 4 years ago. And don't tell me it's bad for the game. No game ever had more players than WoW had. They implemented what most players truly wanted, not just some outliers stuck in the past.

Oh great. Actors you say? Perfect analogy. So who got the Oscar prize and Oscar laureate title? Hugh Glass or Leonardo DiCaprio who played him?

TheShadowScout wrote: »

And I say again... as long as there is no shared progress, I have no problem whatsoever with some indication of "earned on an alt". Or even a "running account total" on the character select screen.
I personally see no value in it, but... I can accpet that maybe you do.

But if you make the achievement account wide, and every character pitches in for the 500 mudcrab kills... the achievment would be lessened since it would no longer require any effort, but be far more easily attainable. Which would be quite an slap into the face of those who Do spend effort on their ESO "bumper stickers"

And characters who have not done the effort, could not do the effort, get to wear prominent titles. Which would lessen those titles value immensely.

And finally... I really see no reason for the powers that be put in effort better spent elsewhere to change the current character-specific system just because some people are not willing to put in the extra effort for when they make an extra character.

Then why are you arguing? That is EXACTLY what players are asking for.

No it wont' be the slap in their face. I spent this effort. And I know - and you must know - that it requires no skill specific to a character, just the time. I would like to share the reward for that with other toons. It's not a slap in the face - it's exactly what I, and others like I, want.

Characters have done no effort whatsoever. A player has done effort using a character as a tool. Titles that aren't class-specific shouldn't be shared. Like Flawless Conqueror. Titles that you get through grind absolutely should be shared. It does not reduce their value. It's a player who has done them. For all your immersion purposes - you have no clue if I've done it with one toon or another. MIght as well have done it with an alt.

It's dumb to require grind just for the sake of it. If an achievement requires actual effort, then its title (IF IT HAS ONE) doesn't need to be shared until it's earned with a specific character. Like Flawless Conqueror as long as it's not outdated.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I think we can agree on the "account wide progress" tab thing. I would not object to something showing progress across all characters... its the other stuff i have a problem with.

Right? Is that too much to ask? Had to be implemented since the start.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

...and this is where i start to object!

And remind you again, that any achievements in the game world are NOT player achievements, but character achievements. Bumper stickers on the vessel you drive through the game world. Even those without need for skill... if you drove through all european capitals with your car, getting a bumper sticker in each to show where you have been... that does NOT mean your other car also visited all those capitals, now does it?
You keep arguing, it should.
I keep arguing, it shouldn't.
We won't agree.
Let's agree to disagree then.

Nope, characters are the tools. PLayers earn achievements. And achievements that aren't class/build-specific can be shared. Because it doesn't matter which character you got them with.

You stickers show where the DRIVER have been. He's the one getting those stickers. Can get one or can get one for each of his cars while he's on it. The car is driven by a driver and can't go anywhere by itself. Also see example somewhere below.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I never claimed to have played them all. WoW for example is one I never would play, because I hated it when a friend showed it to me. It may be the biggest, it may be the first that hit on that grand a scale... but I really dislike it, both for the cartoonish visuals, and other issues (not the least of which the "buy a level 80 character" adverts I have seen. If a game goes that way... I go elsewhere)
If you like WoW so much... go. Play it. But don't expect everyone to like their system, or to agree to you wanting ESO to become WoW with different visuals.

I don't say you played them all. I say - go try WoW or at least go to their site, just to see how their systems work. I agree that it looks really outdated for 2016. But there's the reason it's the most successfull MMORPG ever made. And buy a character... Do you think no one sells ESO characters?

YOu have no clue about wow systems, so you're being irrationally hostile right now. I obviously expect everyone to like some of them. In particular, their achievements system is almost perfect. Just google how it works. It gives you both character progress and combined account progress. Titles aren't shared btw, if I remember correctly, which is pretty dumb in some cases (yea there are grind achievements too).

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Get it now?

Yeah I do? So what's the point. I won't become the master angler in real life. I won't have titles over me. My characters will.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I get it - you are using your "the player did it" argument because you want all of it changed to account wide for "convenience". I am saying, I do not want that, as it would lessen MY enjoyment of the game, make me cancel my subscription and leave after playing through things once on my main, instead of keeping playing for my alts.

Personally, I think things that make people keep playing (and spending on) a game would be good for the powers that be behind the game.

This makes no sense. You wouldn't be forced to use any titles, you wouldn't be forced benefit from account-wideness if you don't want to. YOu would still earn achievements on alts and you would still see that they are incomplete on your alts if they are. So you can still play how you like. Do you just not want other players to enjoy the game and want them to leave? Do you understand it's worse for the game?
Also, I am ready to take this risk if you leave after playing things with your main. I"m playing since release and still not close to 100% achievements. If you ever get 100% (which I highly doubt) go ahead - leave. It will be in 5 years or something. You will more likely leave because of other reasons, not because you got all the achievements.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

One - you do not speak for everyone. Don't tell any players what they are asking for. Some ask for this, others ask for that... in this case, you ask for a change in the achievements, I ask for them all to remain as they are now.
Two - I am arguing against the points I see as determinantal to my enjoyment of the game. I am arguing against the "gimme crowd" mentality, that wants everything handed to them and then ends up complaining that there is nothing to do, leaves the game they messed up and goes to complain about some new game. I argue for those who are willing to spend the effort. Even multiple times if they want something enough.

One- lol? I'm obviously talking about players who want account-wide achievements, not all the players.
Two- if you argue against that - go argue against vet dungeons nerfs, vet MA drop rates in new dlc etc. The achievement change wouldn't do any harm to the game. It would just add one more indicator showing your total progress. AND let people play alts without the feeling that they are wasting their time, because they can only progress (i.e. increase achievement points) on their main.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

And I and others like me might consider it a slap in the face. Since for us, that is what it would be.
One more point at which we will not find agreement...

How? How would that be a slap in the face? They are NOT LOSING ANYTHING.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

You see characters as tools. I see them as more, as vessels to get through the virtual world of ESO. You are saying, "bumper stickers" that require no skill should be shared. I am saying, no they should not. A "this car was blessed by the pope" bumper sticker requires no skill either, and yet if you want a second of your vehicles to have that distinction, you should very well drive to rome for the next car blessing ceremony (not that this is a thing, but... it works as metaphor)

Character-specific stickers shouldn't be shared. Like the flawless conqueror or this car was blessed by the pope. Stickers like, say, a german flag - should, because it was the driver who got there and bought that sticker and it doesn't matter which car he used. For all you know, he could've taken a plane/bus there, could've bought a sticker and put it on his car when he's back home. So it doesn't matter HOW he got there, it matters that he did.
So yep, consider them tools or vessels - it doesn't change anything, I'm afraid. Think about it.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

So, by your logic, if a driver changes cars, all the stickers magically change cars too?
Sorry, not the way this works with car stickers.

No, that's not what follows from my logic. Stickers don't change anything, they just show where the driver have been. Except for stickers like "This car was blessed by the Pope" or you know "06/16" or something that shows when you need to do another technical inspection haha.

So that's what I'm saying, titles that require skills with a certain character/class shouldn't be shared, like The Flawless Conqueror. But the ones that are obtained by mindless grind - should be.

Then again, I don't even insist on sharing the titles to be honest. I just want to see the combined account progress and want it to be an indicator of progress. Did you see how some people post their achievement score in the signature on forum? That's the score we show off. I want this part to be more like in WoW. Where your progress are all unique achievements combined, but your toons have their own achievements. Basically I just don't want to feel like I"m wasting time when playing alts.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

If you prefer... you can consider the characters tools if you like. Not exactly fitting, seeing how the characters get better and tools usually don't, but... if you like the metaphor, let's use it.

But then all the achievements are decoration. Ornamentation. Some require skill to get - like an artist painting your tools. Others just require patience, like superglueing thousands of glass pearls to your tool.

But in either case, just because you decorate ONE of your tools does NOT mean all your other tools are now also decorared.

So why should it mean that for your characters?

That only follows from the assumption that achievements are decoration. I disagree with this. Decoration in this analogy would be your gear. Painting a tool = getting gear, enchants etc. Supergluing glass pealrs - basically gearing up your tool. And no, I don't say all character should immediately get copies of each other's gear

TheShadowScout wrote: »

HAH!
And that is exactly what I have been saying.
Thanks for finally agreeing, even though it seems to have happened by accident... (unless you ask Freud...)

No you didn't get my point. The title will be displayed over the character's head. I am the one who got it with a character. There are no freudian slips there Don't forget the context of the conversation and everything else I'm saying. It's not me who gets the title displayed because I exist outside the game, but it's me who got it.

Artis wrote: »

How? How would that be a slap in the face? They are NOT LOSING ANYTHING.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

If you buy a thing for 1000 dollars, and the next day they sell if to the other guy for 10$, you have not "lost" anything either. And it'd still be a slap in your face, wouldn't it?

But it's not gonna be "next" thing. Your phone, your computer and your car are already cheaper than they were when you bought them. Significantly cheaper. Are you feeling slapped in the face? Do you go to picket the parliament complaining that economics is a heartless ***? Things get cheaper when they are getting older and more common. Such is life.

Also, do you remember when they added 2 more undaunted levels? By then most players who played for a while completed all teh dungeon achievements so they could only level the skill line via dailes, while others leveled it much faster by finishing achievements/quests. ZOS didn't care that they punished players for completing content. Yeah, we didn't like it, but now it doesn't matter. Things happened, we got our passives a little later and community moved on. If a few people feel slapped in the face - maybe it's a necessary sacrifice for the good of the game! Besides, I'm sure there's less than 10 people who are really working onthose grinding achieves with more than 1 toon (fishing, trophies etc).

Artis wrote: »

Character-specific stickers shouldn't be shared. Like the flawless conqueror or this car was blessed by the pope. Stickers like, say, a german flag - should, because it was the driver who got there and bought that sticker and it doesn't matter which car he used. For all you know, he could've taken a plane/bus there, could've bought a sticker and put it on his car when he's back home. So it doesn't matter HOW he got there, it matters that he did.
So yep, consider them tools or vessels - it doesn't change anything, I'm afraid. Think about it.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

First you say "non-skill based achievements should be shared", then you compare an obviously non-skill based "I visited the pope and got this blessing" with an skill based achievement? Get your story straight instead of bending it both ways!

And if we keep to the stickers... I am saying, if one car gets a sticker glued on, the other cars do not magically spot the same sticker. That is the relevant part of the metaphor. The "taken a plane"... go on. Try it. Get an ESO achievment without using any ESO character. Tell us how it went.

No you didn't get it. The key part there is SPECIFIC. Skill specific. In this analogy that means a specific car. Going to the pope requires none of your skill. But it will be only one car that is blessed.

Sigh. If a car gets a sticker glued on - it doesn't matter that it's the car that was actually taken to Germany. A driver could've bought this sticker while traveling on the rented car. OR it could be a gift from a friend/husband/wife etc. It doesn't say anything about the car. He could've bought (and for all you know - that's what he did) multiple stickers and put it on all his cars.

Artis wrote: »

Well, It's not about those guys and their families. I'm not saying that all my guildies should be able to use my titles. They would be Einstein's family members in this analogy, not the characters. Characters are his tools P.Kane's hockey sticks. Whichever hockey stick he holds now is a NHL champion's hockey stick.

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Actually... in that metaphor, your other charcacters Would be the family members, and your guildmates would be the friends and associates.
Tools... see above for ornamentation. Your logic is still flawed no matter which metaphor we use.

No in this analogy characters are tools - pencils and paper for Einstein, hockey sticks for Kane. Family members are irrelevant since they are not the tools they controlled.

Ornamentation is customizing appearance when you create a toon and choosing/changing the gear. Your logic is flawed, because in analogy all relationships should stay the same. You lost it when ornamentation wasn't an analogy for gear/appearance, which is what it is. Tools are tools. As characters are getting better, tools are getting more familiar and easier to use.

Now read everything again.

Artis wrote: »

Wrong.
It shows how many things you have completed With This Character.
You -want- it to show how many things you have completed As A Player.
But it doesn't. And hopefully never will.
Because the achievements in the character journal -should- only show what was done on that character.

Not that I expect you to be convinced of this, or to stop arguing.

Thus I am again reminded of the wisdom in playing chess with pidgeons... and shall not waste any more effort on this.

Yes, it will. It's 2016 and it's coming sooner or later. It's an MMO and there's more than 1 player. AChievement score is for players to compare it with each other now, not just for you to compare your different characters.

Ahaha priceless. So you can't argue with arguments, got your own analogies turned against you, so now you just insult me? OK, right, that's me who's dumb, not you. You don't even know my education level (and yes my logic is almost flawless due to decades of training it and due to what I do). I don't think you should insult people that you don't know.

Tandor wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

How would any of your other charcters develop if all the achievements were already done ?
Achievement are as much part of the progression system as levelling to me.
A characters achievements is a list of 'their' very own history (not the players).

So you tell me that do all the achievements on all your char you are play with and if so you are my hero but trust me it is get boring do achievements over and over again on all char and if do go crazy from that trust me you will when we get 5 or 6th DLC and you have run same achievements for 8 time again.

Those who want to do achievements separately on their characters rather than having just one character do them and the rest of the characters share them don't necessarily want to do all the achievements on all the characters. It makes no sense, for example, for a templar played as a holy paladin to go after the thieves' and assassins' achievements. It equally makes no sense for that templar to be automatically credited with those particular achievements just because another character on the account got them. The important thing for many players with multiple characters is that they each have a full run at the game and don't have half of it automatically handed to them on a plate because the player has done it before with a different character.

I don't dislike the whole concept of account achievements, but that is different to account-wide achievements. That is, if there were an achievement to recognise the player having got 8 max level characters then that would be an account achievement that reflected on the commitment of the player. But something like mastering a crafting profession is personal to the character that did it and shouldn't be account-wide.

But you WILL NOT BE FORCED to use those titles. So no one will see your templar with that. Even now you can only use 1 title at a time anyway. Also, you WILL SEE that the achievement is not completed on your templar. If you're logged on a templar - you will see unique achievements combined AND your templar's achievements separately.

Moonscythe wrote: »

I like that dyes, are account wide so I can get access to particular colours, but otherwise it would just be weird to see Dominion Explorer showing up on my achievements on my Daggerfall or Pact characters.

Ummmm.... You are new, aren't you? Do you want me to show you Dominion Explorer on my Daggerfall character?

nordsavage wrote: »

I did a huge thread on this already and Gina said they would not change achievements any time soon if at all. Feel free to read my thoughts and those of others as well as how this will end. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/238903/achieve-account#latest

Tbh she said they are just focused on other things. So it's not impossible in principle. Guess, we should keep asking/reminding them that we'd like that.