Make the range of Jesus Beam 18 meters.

KenaPKK · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Kena, if you're far enough away that you can't gap close (also, why are you not using cloak?), there is typically ample amounts of LoS opportunities. Think about it, you're complaining about how a melee build has to either struggle or build in counters to a ranged opponent. Duh? Every pvp game has had this exact scenario since the beginning. If you don't want to slot ranged interrupts or purges, slot strong heals and shields. Most of the time when I'm Jesus beamed it's at high health and a single heal let's me completely ignore them. Even if in low health a BoL is preferred before I hit purify. If you're jumping into groups solo and dying to Jesus beam, maybe rethink your engagement, or run with a healer. Jesus beam does jack to someone I'm tossing BoL to.

No one build should be able to counter everything and still do high dps. I know people want that for their builds, but that's terrible balance. If I run across a DK when I'm solo, I'm probably going to stalemate because the only offensive skills I have are heavy resto attack and Jesus beam in the face of wings. Funny how you don't see Templars asking for nerfs to wings every week, but you see tons of DKs asking for nerfs to Jesus beam eh? You can't even reliably use puncturing sweep on them because all they have to do is pop talons and move to your side.

This isn't a Templar trying to maintain an OP ability, on my healer when I have room for a dps ability I choose DF over RD. Ive never been hit by RD over the past month and thought, wow, it's way too strong and there was nothing I could do.

Only nightblade has cloak. I'm playing devil's advocate.

My point is that melee builds have gap closers to get in close and counter RD, but that RD outranges gap closers, creating a situation where there is no counterplay, a situation where templars are encouraged to sit back at max range and spam Dark Flare and RD, like that person higher up in the thread says he likes to do.

I play a mageblade with 100% reflectable damage, yet I believe wings are completely balanced. I have methods of playing around them and do not have a problem fighting against magicka DKs 1v1, 1vX, or in group. But RD being constantly held on me or anyone from a distance is annoying, deadly, and has very limited counterplay. That frustrates the hell out of me. lol

Ever since I stopped using cloak, which was my nightblade easy button counter, I've had many many encounters where some templar standing 30m away spamming RD on me was the sole reason I died. I realized then what everyone was talking about with all the "nerf radiant" talk on the forums. A guildy said he thinks the range should just be lowered, which makes a ton of sense if you stop to think about how templars use the ability now and how they would use it if it had an 18m range.

Right now, lots of templars in Cyro (who are less informed and refined as yourself and other good ones, and who just take the easiest path to moar AP that their kit allows) sit back shooting it at full health targets on the off chance that the target gets bursted down by allies.

If it had an 18m range, templars would use it sparingly, only to finish off wounded enemies as the skill is intended. Templars would be forced to burst their opponents down and then use the moment of panic after delivering their burst to begin channeling RD. The opponent would be forced to either risk dying by closing the gap and aggressively interrupt the channel -- which they currently cannot always do because of RD's long range -- or outheal the execute damage, which is not always possible.

Imo that sounds like a more balanced scenario.

Zheg · May 2016

I've killed plenty of templars using RD on me at full health, why in the world would you want them actually being a threat and using other skills? You took cloak off your bar and started to have trouble with the skill. Of course, you took your best counter away. Cloaking an RD is one of the most accessible and easiest ways to counter it for a NB, and the super majority run this for other reasons, it's not like they're slotting it specifically for RD.

Are you legitimately going to tell me that sorcs are complaining about jesus beamers at full health when they have an incredible ability to stack shields right now and assure 0 critical ticks of damage from that one beam? Are you going to tell me sorcs aren't running CS to interrupt, or frags to CC? Because that's what I always get hit by when I try to RD a sorc.

Are you going to tell me templars can't handle RD? When every single one of them has purify on their bar, and strong heals?

That leaves DKs, and yes, most of the whiners have been stam DKs unable to 1vX and dodge roll/shuffle while their vigor ticks. I don't really have many counters when they're in my face spamming WB, and I certainly don't have any other option to do dps to them since they can reflect the bulk of my skills. So again I ask, why is it ok for a DK to be such a strong counter to a magplar in the majority of engagements, but not for a templar to have a successful skill against them once they hit 40% hp? Seems a little ridiculous to me, and I can't believe I need to make such obvious points.

People die because a templar tosses an RD on them while they're getting Xv1'd, I get it. With the exception of a DK, that person will likely die FASTER if the templar is spamming DF on them, and this is why I find these threads to be so moronic.

KenaPKK · May 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

[snip]

I do not die to RD alone at 40% health. One templar using radiant from far off isn't the problem. It's in larger battles where many players are involved that radiant loses its risk and counterplay but does not lose its huge upside. One templar holding radiant on a full health player from the back of a group can deliver 12k+ ticks to targets as they dip below 40% health or so, basically lowering their effective health in combat by that 40%. Would you enter a largescale fight with only 14k health?

I don't like situations where players are helpless. Counterplay and decision making should abound in a game like this. Yea, I could just cloak it off, but I'm not speaking for me here. I'm speaking for the players who don't have such easy access to a counter.

Zheg · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

[snip]

I do not die to RD alone at 40% health. One templar using radiant from far off isn't the problem. It's in larger battles where many players are involved that radiant loses its risk and counterplay but does not lose its huge upside. One templar holding radiant on a full health player from the back of a group can deliver 12k+ ticks to targets as they dip below 40% health or so, basically lowering their effective health in combat by that 40%. Would you enter a largescale fight with 14k health?

As I said above, you will die much faster in that situation with a sorc pressuring you instead of a jesus beamer, so what exactly is your point? And chances are, you'll die quicker if that templar is popping DFs on you instead.

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2016

@KenaPKK what it sounds like you're proposing is an instant cast execute for the class, because that's the only way it would be worth changing it in the manner you're discussing. Personally, I like the idea of the instant cast DF and getting my Blinding Flashes back, but I have a feeling that a lot of Magplars would have a shitfit if they lost the laser beam, and I have to say it does look cool. The Laser beam looks a lot cooler than Dark Flare actually, so I can really understand why people would want to keep it. My only point here is that you need to look at the big picture with this skill. If you knock it down to 18m I can guaranty almost nobody will want to use this skill, and it will be yet another trash skill on the heap of trash in the Templar toolkit. Every class has its bugs, but I swear the Templar class is the clunkiest, buggiest class I've played in the game, and I still love it for some reason - style. The sad truth is that as a Stamplar the only reason for slotting the amount of class skills that I do is in order to take advantage of passives. If it were not for that I'd probably just use more weapon/alliance/guild skills.

Back to the point at hand. I really don't have a dog in the race here, because I don't really use this skill. You're more likely to see a bombard or snipe or poison injection from me than you will see an RD getting fired. The part that I don't like about suggestions like these is that they feel like they're being made in a vacuum, as if all things are equal, and they are not. On a Sorc you have significantly more mobility to the point that you could just bolt escape your way in (or out). NB can cloak (and has high mobility as well) into range at that 'danger zone'. Another Templar actually is at a slight disadvantage here although a Magplar can set down and heal himself. The DK should be able to block and shield his way into range. You're really only worried about the danger zone, the distance between where you can charge, and where they can fire at you. I guess that's @wrobel's way of telling you that you at least have to try to approach the Templar House. That's my gut feeling anyway.

KenaPKK · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

[snip]

I do not die to RD alone at 40% health. One templar using radiant from far off isn't the problem. It's in larger battles where many players are involved that radiant loses its risk and counterplay but does not lose its huge upside. One templar holding radiant on a full health player from the back of a group can deliver 12k+ ticks to targets as they dip below 40% health or so, basically lowering their effective health in combat by that 40%. Would you enter a largescale fight with 14k health?

As I said above, you will die much faster in that situation with a sorc pressuring you instead of a jesus beamer, so what exactly is your point? And chances are, you'll die quicker if that templar is popping DFs on you instead.

Honestly, I'd rather have a sorc pressuring me with his whole kit than a templar holding radiant on me for the whole engagement. A sorc standing at 25m has Wrath, Shock, and Frag to shoot at me, none of which apply the same pressure as RD. I'll dodge or block the frags, and the other abilities deal little damage.

And don't say block RD. You don't block radiant. You'd lose your whole stam pool sitting there holding block forever. That isn't how you play against it.

Also I am of the opinion, as are many, that DF is doing too much damage, and I don't like how the heal debuff applies even if you roll dodge the projectile. Damage + heal debuff + empower is a bit much, just like WB's damage + cc + empower, so idk if it's a fair comparison. I'd hate to have either spammed on me.

I think as blab put it, he likes how his one DF forces the opponent to use both a purge and a heal, putting him on the offensive advantage. That's also how WB worked -- you had to both break the cc and heal the damage that it and the empowered followup dealt in the meantime.

My impressions of magplar come from Aenlir and Ara's explanations of their current states of balance and how their kits work when in a high dps spec. They are of the opinion that magplar is stupid op, so they are enjoying running around in their magplar duo.

Blab has also said that magplar felt perfectly balanced before the last round of buffs and the "fix" to RD that basically undid the last nerf...

Zheg · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

[snip]

I do not die to RD alone at 40% health. One templar using radiant from far off isn't the problem. It's in larger battles where many players are involved that radiant loses its risk and counterplay but does not lose its huge upside. One templar holding radiant on a full health player from the back of a group can deliver 12k+ ticks to targets as they dip below 40% health or so, basically lowering their effective health in combat by that 40%. Would you enter a largescale fight with 14k health?

As I said above, you will die much faster in that situation with a sorc pressuring you instead of a jesus beamer, so what exactly is your point? And chances are, you'll die quicker if that templar is popping DFs on you instead.

Honestly, I'd rather have a sorc pressuring me with his whole kit than a templar holding radiant on me for the whole engagement. A sorc standing at 25m has Wrath, Shock, and Frag to shoot at me, none of which apply the same pressure as RD. I'll dodge or block the frags, and the other abilities deal little damage.

And don't say block RD. You don't block radiant. You'd lose your whole stam pool sitting there holding block forever. That isn't how you play against it.

Also I am of the opinion, as are many, that DF is doing too much damage, and I don't like how the heal debuff applies even if you roll dodge the projectile. Damage + heal debuff + empower is a bit much, just like WB's damage + cc + empower, so idk if it's a fair comparison. I'd hate to have either spammed on me.

I think as blab put it, he likes how his one DF forces the opponent to use both a purge and a heal, putting him on the offensive advantage. That's also how WB worked -- you had to both break the cc and heal the damage that it and the empowered followup dealt in the meantime.

My impressions of magplar come from Aenlir and Ara's explanations of their current states of balance and how their kits work when in a high dps spec. They are of the opinion that magplar is stupid op, so they are enjoying running around in their magplar duo.

Blab has also said that magplar felt perfectly balanced before the last round of buffs and the "fix" to RD that basically undid the last nerf...

The damage of DF is too high, most of the sober templars said that was the last thing we needed when the patch notes came out. What is and has been complained about is being hit by RD at high health. When you can show me Aenlir, Ara, Blab, or any other good templar doing that, then I'll actually believe that it needs addressing. Until then, you don't see them doing that because it's a dps loss and makes them vulnerable. On all of the other jesus beam threads, as soon as I say this, people go quiet, or ignore it and start talking about something else.

I disagree with you on who we'd rather have pressuring us in an Xv1 situation, but we play different classes with different weaknesses, and that's fine. What's not fine is calling for nerfs because of situations where you are heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. Sounds like bad balancing to me.

Delsskia · May 2016

Make the range of all melee abilities 2 meters.

KenaPKK · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

[snip]

I do not die to RD alone at 40% health. One templar using radiant from far off isn't the problem. It's in larger battles where many players are involved that radiant loses its risk and counterplay but does not lose its huge upside. One templar holding radiant on a full health player from the back of a group can deliver 12k+ ticks to targets as they dip below 40% health or so, basically lowering their effective health in combat by that 40%. Would you enter a largescale fight with 14k health?

As I said above, you will die much faster in that situation with a sorc pressuring you instead of a jesus beamer, so what exactly is your point? And chances are, you'll die quicker if that templar is popping DFs on you instead.

Honestly, I'd rather have a sorc pressuring me with his whole kit than a templar holding radiant on me for the whole engagement. A sorc standing at 25m has Wrath, Shock, and Frag to shoot at me, none of which apply the same pressure as RD. I'll dodge or block the frags, and the other abilities deal little damage.

And don't say block RD. You don't block radiant. You'd lose your whole stam pool sitting there holding block forever. That isn't how you play against it.

Also I am of the opinion, as are many, that DF is doing too much damage, and I don't like how the heal debuff applies even if you roll dodge the projectile. Damage + heal debuff + empower is a bit much, just like WB's damage + cc + empower, so idk if it's a fair comparison. I'd hate to have either spammed on me.

I think as blab put it, he likes how his one DF forces the opponent to use both a purge and a heal, putting him on the offensive advantage. That's also how WB worked -- you had to both break the cc and heal the damage that it and the empowered followup dealt in the meantime.

My impressions of magplar come from Aenlir and Ara's explanations of their current states of balance and how their kits work when in a high dps spec. They are of the opinion that magplar is stupid op, so they are enjoying running around in their magplar duo.

Blab has also said that magplar felt perfectly balanced before the last round of buffs and the "fix" to RD that basically undid the last nerf...

The damage of DF is too high, most of the sober templars said that was the last thing we needed when the patch notes came out. What is and has been complained about is being hit by RD at high health. When you can show me Aenlir, Ara, Blab, or any other good templar doing that, then I'll actually believe that it needs addressing. Until then, you don't see them doing that because it's a dps loss and makes them vulnerable. On all of the other jesus beam threads, as soon as I say this, people go quiet, or ignore it and start talking about something else.

I disagree with you on who we'd rather have pressuring us in an Xv1 situation, but we play different classes with different weaknesses, and that's fine. What's not fine is calling for nerfs because of situations where you are heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. Sounds like bad balancing to me.

40 seconds in, Aenlir entropy > radiants a guy oh his horse at 87% health. Ara toppling charges > radiants the guy and he dies to their beams before he can even fall to the ground. I'm watching through the rest of it now.

Also I'm not calling for nerfs because of situations where I'm heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. I'm calling for nerfs because of situations where the numbers are even, or where I'm slightly outnumbered but still able to prevail if not for this stupid ability.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261961/video-aenlir-and-ara-duo-magicka-templar-carnage/p1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoZC9wmOTO4

Edit: I'll go ahead and reiterate what seems to have gone over your head. Blab admits that magplar is overtuned right now, and Aenlir and Ara leveled and are playing identical magplars right now because they are amused at how op they are. Aenlir has laughed about it to me in conversation many times.

It's hilarious.

Zheg · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

[snip]

I do not die to RD alone at 40% health. One templar using radiant from far off isn't the problem. It's in larger battles where many players are involved that radiant loses its risk and counterplay but does not lose its huge upside. One templar holding radiant on a full health player from the back of a group can deliver 12k+ ticks to targets as they dip below 40% health or so, basically lowering their effective health in combat by that 40%. Would you enter a largescale fight with 14k health?

As I said above, you will die much faster in that situation with a sorc pressuring you instead of a jesus beamer, so what exactly is your point? And chances are, you'll die quicker if that templar is popping DFs on you instead.

Honestly, I'd rather have a sorc pressuring me with his whole kit than a templar holding radiant on me for the whole engagement. A sorc standing at 25m has Wrath, Shock, and Frag to shoot at me, none of which apply the same pressure as RD. I'll dodge or block the frags, and the other abilities deal little damage.

And don't say block RD. You don't block radiant. You'd lose your whole stam pool sitting there holding block forever. That isn't how you play against it.

Also I am of the opinion, as are many, that DF is doing too much damage, and I don't like how the heal debuff applies even if you roll dodge the projectile. Damage + heal debuff + empower is a bit much, just like WB's damage + cc + empower, so idk if it's a fair comparison. I'd hate to have either spammed on me.

I think as blab put it, he likes how his one DF forces the opponent to use both a purge and a heal, putting him on the offensive advantage. That's also how WB worked -- you had to both break the cc and heal the damage that it and the empowered followup dealt in the meantime.

My impressions of magplar come from Aenlir and Ara's explanations of their current states of balance and how their kits work when in a high dps spec. They are of the opinion that magplar is stupid op, so they are enjoying running around in their magplar duo.

Blab has also said that magplar felt perfectly balanced before the last round of buffs and the "fix" to RD that basically undid the last nerf...

The damage of DF is too high, most of the sober templars said that was the last thing we needed when the patch notes came out. What is and has been complained about is being hit by RD at high health. When you can show me Aenlir, Ara, Blab, or any other good templar doing that, then I'll actually believe that it needs addressing. Until then, you don't see them doing that because it's a dps loss and makes them vulnerable. On all of the other jesus beam threads, as soon as I say this, people go quiet, or ignore it and start talking about something else.

I disagree with you on who we'd rather have pressuring us in an Xv1 situation, but we play different classes with different weaknesses, and that's fine. What's not fine is calling for nerfs because of situations where you are heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. Sounds like bad balancing to me.

40 seconds in, Aenlir entropy > radiants a guy oh his horse at 87% health. Ara toppling charges > radiants the guy and he dies to their beams before he can even fall to the ground. I'm watching through the rest of it now.

Also I'm not calling for nerfs because of situations where I'm heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. I'm calling for nerfs because of situations where the numbers are even, or where I'm slightly outnumbered but still able to prevail if not for this stupid ability.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261961/video-aenlir-and-ara-duo-magicka-templar-carnage/p1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoZC9wmOTO4

Edit: I'll go ahead and reiterate what seems to have gone over your head. Blab admits that magplar is overtuned right now, and Aenlir and Ara leveled and are playing identical magplars right now because they are amused at how op they are. Aenlir has laughed about it to me in conversation many times. It's hilarious.

On a v12? Yeah, let's see them doing that on a good player, and preferably one with impen and knowledgeable about pvp.

That guy would be dead just as quick as two NB's lotus fanning in with a prox det and hitting concealed weapon at the same time. And that's a video you yourself could probably demonstrate.

Also, 1:50 in he's being Xv1'd and a templar puts jesus beam on him, same thing at 2:58, and there are more examples. I don't see him blow up, is that because he's a good player and able to deal with it?

Ishammael · May 2016

The problem isn't Radiant per se.

The problem is that the four classes in ESO are not balanced around a particular theme or "vision." Class skill balance is haphazard. See Radiant, Cloak, Ward, BoL, Wings (year ago), etc. No skill exist in a vacuum, all excel in different scenarios. And therein lies the rub: ZoS has no clear vision for each class, no point about which they are balanced. Nor any point about which we, the players, can provide feedback.

My opinion is the following:
1. Statement of vision for each class. What should it be good at, and what should its weaknesses be? Which scenarios?
2. What are the "class defining" skills as declared by ZoS. What are the CON-OPS for each?
3. Solicit player feedback. Host a tournament.
4. More options for skill morphs. Passive "morphs".
5. (long term) More skill lines per class.
6. (longer term) New classes.

KenaPKK · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

[snip]

I do not die to RD alone at 40% health. One templar using radiant from far off isn't the problem. It's in larger battles where many players are involved that radiant loses its risk and counterplay but does not lose its huge upside. One templar holding radiant on a full health player from the back of a group can deliver 12k+ ticks to targets as they dip below 40% health or so, basically lowering their effective health in combat by that 40%. Would you enter a largescale fight with 14k health?

As I said above, you will die much faster in that situation with a sorc pressuring you instead of a jesus beamer, so what exactly is your point? And chances are, you'll die quicker if that templar is popping DFs on you instead.

Honestly, I'd rather have a sorc pressuring me with his whole kit than a templar holding radiant on me for the whole engagement. A sorc standing at 25m has Wrath, Shock, and Frag to shoot at me, none of which apply the same pressure as RD. I'll dodge or block the frags, and the other abilities deal little damage.

And don't say block RD. You don't block radiant. You'd lose your whole stam pool sitting there holding block forever. That isn't how you play against it.

Also I am of the opinion, as are many, that DF is doing too much damage, and I don't like how the heal debuff applies even if you roll dodge the projectile. Damage + heal debuff + empower is a bit much, just like WB's damage + cc + empower, so idk if it's a fair comparison. I'd hate to have either spammed on me.

I think as blab put it, he likes how his one DF forces the opponent to use both a purge and a heal, putting him on the offensive advantage. That's also how WB worked -- you had to both break the cc and heal the damage that it and the empowered followup dealt in the meantime.

My impressions of magplar come from Aenlir and Ara's explanations of their current states of balance and how their kits work when in a high dps spec. They are of the opinion that magplar is stupid op, so they are enjoying running around in their magplar duo.

Blab has also said that magplar felt perfectly balanced before the last round of buffs and the "fix" to RD that basically undid the last nerf...

The damage of DF is too high, most of the sober templars said that was the last thing we needed when the patch notes came out. What is and has been complained about is being hit by RD at high health. When you can show me Aenlir, Ara, Blab, or any other good templar doing that, then I'll actually believe that it needs addressing. Until then, you don't see them doing that because it's a dps loss and makes them vulnerable. On all of the other jesus beam threads, as soon as I say this, people go quiet, or ignore it and start talking about something else.

I disagree with you on who we'd rather have pressuring us in an Xv1 situation, but we play different classes with different weaknesses, and that's fine. What's not fine is calling for nerfs because of situations where you are heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. Sounds like bad balancing to me.

40 seconds in, Aenlir entropy > radiants a guy oh his horse at 87% health. Ara toppling charges > radiants the guy and he dies to their beams before he can even fall to the ground. I'm watching through the rest of it now.

Also I'm not calling for nerfs because of situations where I'm heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. I'm calling for nerfs because of situations where the numbers are even, or where I'm slightly outnumbered but still able to prevail if not for this stupid ability.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261961/video-aenlir-and-ara-duo-magicka-templar-carnage/p1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoZC9wmOTO4

Edit: I'll go ahead and reiterate what seems to have gone over your head. Blab admits that magplar is overtuned right now, and Aenlir and Ara leveled and are playing identical magplars right now because they are amused at how op they are. Aenlir has laughed about it to me in conversation many times. It's hilarious.

On a v12? Yeah, let's see them doing that on a good player, and preferably one with impen and knowledgeable about pvp.

They'd be dead just as quick as two NB's lotus fanning in with a prox det and hitting concealed weapon at the same time. And that's a video you yourself could probably demonstrate.

Also, 1:50 in he's being Xv1'd and a templar puts jesus beam on him. I don't see him blow up, is that because he's a good player and able to deal with it?

Could I Impale or Executioner or Endless Fury someone to death that quickly, even a v12? Nope.

Zheg · May 2016

I can find more examples of the Xers jesus beaming them and handling it just fine than you can of the opposite. I mean, we could get a count going, but you'd lose by a lot, and it would be silly.

Minno · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

[snip]

I do not die to RD alone at 40% health. One templar using radiant from far off isn't the problem. It's in larger battles where many players are involved that radiant loses its risk and counterplay but does not lose its huge upside. One templar holding radiant on a full health player from the back of a group can deliver 12k+ ticks to targets as they dip below 40% health or so, basically lowering their effective health in combat by that 40%. Would you enter a largescale fight with 14k health?

As I said above, you will die much faster in that situation with a sorc pressuring you instead of a jesus beamer, so what exactly is your point? And chances are, you'll die quicker if that templar is popping DFs on you instead.

Honestly, I'd rather have a sorc pressuring me with his whole kit than a templar holding radiant on me for the whole engagement. A sorc standing at 25m has Wrath, Shock, and Frag to shoot at me, none of which apply the same pressure as RD. I'll dodge or block the frags, and the other abilities deal little damage.

And don't say block RD. You don't block radiant. You'd lose your whole stam pool sitting there holding block forever. That isn't how you play against it.

Also I am of the opinion, as are many, that DF is doing too much damage, and I don't like how the heal debuff applies even if you roll dodge the projectile. Damage + heal debuff + empower is a bit much, just like WB's damage + cc + empower, so idk if it's a fair comparison. I'd hate to have either spammed on me.

I think as blab put it, he likes how his one DF forces the opponent to use both a purge and a heal, putting him on the offensive advantage. That's also how WB worked -- you had to both break the cc and heal the damage that it and the empowered followup dealt in the meantime.

My impressions of magplar come from Aenlir and Ara's explanations of their current states of balance and how their kits work when in a high dps spec. They are of the opinion that magplar is stupid op, so they are enjoying running around in their magplar duo.

Blab has also said that magplar felt perfectly balanced before the last round of buffs and the "fix" to RD that basically undid the last nerf...

The damage of DF is too high, most of the sober templars said that was the last thing we needed when the patch notes came out. What is and has been complained about is being hit by RD at high health. When you can show me Aenlir, Ara, Blab, or any other good templar doing that, then I'll actually believe that it needs addressing. Until then, you don't see them doing that because it's a dps loss and makes them vulnerable. On all of the other jesus beam threads, as soon as I say this, people go quiet, or ignore it and start talking about something else.

I disagree with you on who we'd rather have pressuring us in an Xv1 situation, but we play different classes with different weaknesses, and that's fine. What's not fine is calling for nerfs because of situations where you are heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. Sounds like bad balancing to me.

40 seconds in, Aenlir entropy > radiants a guy oh his horse at 87% health. Ara toppling charges > radiants the guy and he dies to their beams before he can even fall to the ground. I'm watching through the rest of it now.

Also I'm not calling for nerfs because of situations where I'm heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. I'm calling for nerfs because of situations where the numbers are even, or where I'm slightly outnumbered but still able to prevail if not for this stupid ability.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261961/video-aenlir-and-ara-duo-magicka-templar-carnage/p1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoZC9wmOTO4

Edit: I'll go ahead and reiterate what seems to have gone over your head. Blab admits that magplar is overtuned right now, and Aenlir and Ara leveled and are playing identical magplars right now because they are amused at how op they are. Aenlir has laughed about it to me in conversation many times. It's hilarious.

On a v12? Yeah, let's see them doing that on a good player, and preferably one with impen and knowledgeable about pvp.

That guy would be dead just as quick as two NB's lotus fanning in with a prox det and hitting concealed weapon at the same time. And that's a video you yourself could probably demonstrate.

Also, 1:50 in he's being Xv1'd and a templar puts jesus beam on him, same thing at 2:58, and there are more examples. I don't see him blow up, is that because he's a good player and able to deal with it?

1% good players still not a reason to nerf a skill that replaced our best 1vx skill in protecting our house.

We asked for balance in how we dealt dmg. And despite ZOS ignoring the suggestions we asked for, RD got a consistency buff in that channel skills should not be dodged. Period. This skill was always a clear ko if you tagged CC, df then RD. Why complain now? No Templar usedit primarily because if multiple beams hit one target, the dmg was shared...

It's working as intended and now people complain.

KenaPKK · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

I can find more examples of the Xers jesus beaming them and handling it just fine than you can of the opposite. I mean, we could get a count going, but you'd lose by a lot, and it would be silly.

He has 27k health in heavy armor with snb.

We already established that magplar isn't one of the classes disadvantaged against radiant. lmao

KenaPKK · May 2016

Minno wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

[snip]

I do not die to RD alone at 40% health. One templar using radiant from far off isn't the problem. It's in larger battles where many players are involved that radiant loses its risk and counterplay but does not lose its huge upside. One templar holding radiant on a full health player from the back of a group can deliver 12k+ ticks to targets as they dip below 40% health or so, basically lowering their effective health in combat by that 40%. Would you enter a largescale fight with 14k health?

As I said above, you will die much faster in that situation with a sorc pressuring you instead of a jesus beamer, so what exactly is your point? And chances are, you'll die quicker if that templar is popping DFs on you instead.

Honestly, I'd rather have a sorc pressuring me with his whole kit than a templar holding radiant on me for the whole engagement. A sorc standing at 25m has Wrath, Shock, and Frag to shoot at me, none of which apply the same pressure as RD. I'll dodge or block the frags, and the other abilities deal little damage.

And don't say block RD. You don't block radiant. You'd lose your whole stam pool sitting there holding block forever. That isn't how you play against it.

Also I am of the opinion, as are many, that DF is doing too much damage, and I don't like how the heal debuff applies even if you roll dodge the projectile. Damage + heal debuff + empower is a bit much, just like WB's damage + cc + empower, so idk if it's a fair comparison. I'd hate to have either spammed on me.

I think as blab put it, he likes how his one DF forces the opponent to use both a purge and a heal, putting him on the offensive advantage. That's also how WB worked -- you had to both break the cc and heal the damage that it and the empowered followup dealt in the meantime.

My impressions of magplar come from Aenlir and Ara's explanations of their current states of balance and how their kits work when in a high dps spec. They are of the opinion that magplar is stupid op, so they are enjoying running around in their magplar duo.

Blab has also said that magplar felt perfectly balanced before the last round of buffs and the "fix" to RD that basically undid the last nerf...

The damage of DF is too high, most of the sober templars said that was the last thing we needed when the patch notes came out. What is and has been complained about is being hit by RD at high health. When you can show me Aenlir, Ara, Blab, or any other good templar doing that, then I'll actually believe that it needs addressing. Until then, you don't see them doing that because it's a dps loss and makes them vulnerable. On all of the other jesus beam threads, as soon as I say this, people go quiet, or ignore it and start talking about something else.

I disagree with you on who we'd rather have pressuring us in an Xv1 situation, but we play different classes with different weaknesses, and that's fine. What's not fine is calling for nerfs because of situations where you are heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. Sounds like bad balancing to me.

40 seconds in, Aenlir entropy > radiants a guy oh his horse at 87% health. Ara toppling charges > radiants the guy and he dies to their beams before he can even fall to the ground. I'm watching through the rest of it now.

Also I'm not calling for nerfs because of situations where I'm heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. I'm calling for nerfs because of situations where the numbers are even, or where I'm slightly outnumbered but still able to prevail if not for this stupid ability.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261961/video-aenlir-and-ara-duo-magicka-templar-carnage/p1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoZC9wmOTO4

Edit: I'll go ahead and reiterate what seems to have gone over your head. Blab admits that magplar is overtuned right now, and Aenlir and Ara leveled and are playing identical magplars right now because they are amused at how op they are. Aenlir has laughed about it to me in conversation many times. It's hilarious.

On a v12? Yeah, let's see them doing that on a good player, and preferably one with impen and knowledgeable about pvp.

That guy would be dead just as quick as two NB's lotus fanning in with a prox det and hitting concealed weapon at the same time. And that's a video you yourself could probably demonstrate.

Also, 1:50 in he's being Xv1'd and a templar puts jesus beam on him, same thing at 2:58, and there are more examples. I don't see him blow up, is that because he's a good player and able to deal with it?

1% good players still not a reason to nerf a skill that replaced our best 1vx skill in protecting our house.

We asked for balance in how we dealt dmg. And despite ZOS ignoring the suggestions we asked for, RD got a consistency buff in that channel skills should not be dodged. Period. This skill was always a clear ko if you tagged CC, df then RD. Why complain now? No Templar usedit primarily because if multiple beams hit one target, the dmg was shared...

It's working as intended and now people complain.

If no one used to use it, then why would they complain then? There's no guarantee that "working as intended" is balanced. I miss your point.

KenaPKK · May 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

The problem isn't Radiant per se.

The problem is that the four classes in ESO are not balanced around a particular theme or "vision." Class skill balance is haphazard. See Radiant, Cloak, Ward, BoL, Wings (year ago), etc. No skill exist in a vacuum, all excel in different scenarios. And therein lies the rub: ZoS has no clear vision for each class, no point about which they are balanced. Nor any point about which we, the players, can provide feedback.

My opinion is the following:
1. Statement of vision for each class. What should it be good at, and what should its weaknesses be? Which scenarios?
2. What are the "class defining" skills as declared by ZoS. What are the CON-OPS for each?
3. Solicit player feedback. Host a tournament.
4. More options for skill morphs. Passive "morphs".
5. (long term) More skill lines per class.
6. (longer term) New classes.

I agree with this, except I still think radiant should have lower range. The damage isn't the problem. It's the fact that its damage can be delivered from outside of gap closer range imo.

Minno · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

[snip]

I do not die to RD alone at 40% health. One templar using radiant from far off isn't the problem. It's in larger battles where many players are involved that radiant loses its risk and counterplay but does not lose its huge upside. One templar holding radiant on a full health player from the back of a group can deliver 12k+ ticks to targets as they dip below 40% health or so, basically lowering their effective health in combat by that 40%. Would you enter a largescale fight with 14k health?

As I said above, you will die much faster in that situation with a sorc pressuring you instead of a jesus beamer, so what exactly is your point? And chances are, you'll die quicker if that templar is popping DFs on you instead.

Honestly, I'd rather have a sorc pressuring me with his whole kit than a templar holding radiant on me for the whole engagement. A sorc standing at 25m has Wrath, Shock, and Frag to shoot at me, none of which apply the same pressure as RD. I'll dodge or block the frags, and the other abilities deal little damage.

And don't say block RD. You don't block radiant. You'd lose your whole stam pool sitting there holding block forever. That isn't how you play against it.

Also I am of the opinion, as are many, that DF is doing too much damage, and I don't like how the heal debuff applies even if you roll dodge the projectile. Damage + heal debuff + empower is a bit much, just like WB's damage + cc + empower, so idk if it's a fair comparison. I'd hate to have either spammed on me.

I think as blab put it, he likes how his one DF forces the opponent to use both a purge and a heal, putting him on the offensive advantage. That's also how WB worked -- you had to both break the cc and heal the damage that it and the empowered followup dealt in the meantime.

My impressions of magplar come from Aenlir and Ara's explanations of their current states of balance and how their kits work when in a high dps spec. They are of the opinion that magplar is stupid op, so they are enjoying running around in their magplar duo.

Blab has also said that magplar felt perfectly balanced before the last round of buffs and the "fix" to RD that basically undid the last nerf...

The damage of DF is too high, most of the sober templars said that was the last thing we needed when the patch notes came out. What is and has been complained about is being hit by RD at high health. When you can show me Aenlir, Ara, Blab, or any other good templar doing that, then I'll actually believe that it needs addressing. Until then, you don't see them doing that because it's a dps loss and makes them vulnerable. On all of the other jesus beam threads, as soon as I say this, people go quiet, or ignore it and start talking about something else.

I disagree with you on who we'd rather have pressuring us in an Xv1 situation, but we play different classes with different weaknesses, and that's fine. What's not fine is calling for nerfs because of situations where you are heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. Sounds like bad balancing to me.

40 seconds in, Aenlir entropy > radiants a guy oh his horse at 87% health. Ara toppling charges > radiants the guy and he dies to their beams before he can even fall to the ground. I'm watching through the rest of it now.

Also I'm not calling for nerfs because of situations where I'm heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. I'm calling for nerfs because of situations where the numbers are even, or where I'm slightly outnumbered but still able to prevail if not for this stupid ability.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261961/video-aenlir-and-ara-duo-magicka-templar-carnage/p1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoZC9wmOTO4

Edit: I'll go ahead and reiterate what seems to have gone over your head. Blab admits that magplar is overtuned right now, and Aenlir and Ara leveled and are playing identical magplars right now because they are amused at how op they are. Aenlir has laughed about it to me in conversation many times. It's hilarious.

On a v12? Yeah, let's see them doing that on a good player, and preferably one with impen and knowledgeable about pvp.

That guy would be dead just as quick as two NB's lotus fanning in with a prox det and hitting concealed weapon at the same time. And that's a video you yourself could probably demonstrate.

Also, 1:50 in he's being Xv1'd and a templar puts jesus beam on him, same thing at 2:58, and there are more examples. I don't see him blow up, is that because he's a good player and able to deal with it?

1% good players still not a reason to nerf a skill that replaced our best 1vx skill in protecting our house.

We asked for balance in how we dealt dmg. And despite ZOS ignoring the suggestions we asked for, RD got a consistency buff in that channel skills should not be dodged. Period. This skill was always a clear ko if you tagged CC, df then RD. Why complain now? No Templar usedit primarily because if multiple beams hit one target, the dmg was shared...

It's working as intended and now people complain.

If no one used to use it, then why would they complain then? There's no guarantee that "working as intended" is balanced. I miss your point.

No one used it because the dmg was nerfed after another Templar popped RD whereas other skills still applied full DMg despite multiple sources. Too much risk over reward and that doesn't align with the intent ZoS has stated the game should be.

If range is reduced, them dmg should be increased. Or add evasion to promote magicka utility. Ebb and flow balance.

Minno · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

I've killed plenty of templars using RD on me at full health, why in the world would you want them actually being a threat and using other skills? You took cloak off your bar and started to have trouble with the skill. Of course, you took your best counter away. Cloaking an RD is one of the most accessible and easiest ways to counter it for a NB, and the super majority run this for other reasons, it's not like they're slotting it specifically for RD.

Are you legitimately going to tell me that sorcs are complaining about jesus beamers at full health when they have an incredible ability to stack shields right now and assure 0 critical ticks of damage from that one beam? Are you going to tell me sorcs aren't running CS to interrupt, or frags to CC? Because that's what I always get hit by when I try to RD a sorc.

Are you going to tell me templars can't handle RD? When every single one of them has purify on their bar, and strong heals?

That leaves DKs, and yes, most of the whiners have been stam DKs unable to 1vX and dodge roll/shuffle while their vigor ticks. I don't really have many counters when they're in my face spamming WB, and I certainly don't have any other option to do dps to them since they can reflect the bulk of my skills. So again I ask, why is it ok for a DK to be such a strong counter to a magplar in the majority of engagements, but not for a templar to have a successful skill against them once they hit 40% hp? Seems a little ridiculous to me, and I can't believe I need to make such obvious points.

People die because a templar tosses an RD on them while they're getting Xv1'd, I get it. With the exception of a DK, that person will likely die FASTER if the templar is spamming DF on them, and this is why I find these threads to be so moronic.

We are being punished for having a viable DPS rotation lol

KenaPKK · May 2016

Minno wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

[snip]

I do not die to RD alone at 40% health. One templar using radiant from far off isn't the problem. It's in larger battles where many players are involved that radiant loses its risk and counterplay but does not lose its huge upside. One templar holding radiant on a full health player from the back of a group can deliver 12k+ ticks to targets as they dip below 40% health or so, basically lowering their effective health in combat by that 40%. Would you enter a largescale fight with 14k health?

As I said above, you will die much faster in that situation with a sorc pressuring you instead of a jesus beamer, so what exactly is your point? And chances are, you'll die quicker if that templar is popping DFs on you instead.

Honestly, I'd rather have a sorc pressuring me with his whole kit than a templar holding radiant on me for the whole engagement. A sorc standing at 25m has Wrath, Shock, and Frag to shoot at me, none of which apply the same pressure as RD. I'll dodge or block the frags, and the other abilities deal little damage.

And don't say block RD. You don't block radiant. You'd lose your whole stam pool sitting there holding block forever. That isn't how you play against it.

Also I am of the opinion, as are many, that DF is doing too much damage, and I don't like how the heal debuff applies even if you roll dodge the projectile. Damage + heal debuff + empower is a bit much, just like WB's damage + cc + empower, so idk if it's a fair comparison. I'd hate to have either spammed on me.

I think as blab put it, he likes how his one DF forces the opponent to use both a purge and a heal, putting him on the offensive advantage. That's also how WB worked -- you had to both break the cc and heal the damage that it and the empowered followup dealt in the meantime.

My impressions of magplar come from Aenlir and Ara's explanations of their current states of balance and how their kits work when in a high dps spec. They are of the opinion that magplar is stupid op, so they are enjoying running around in their magplar duo.

Blab has also said that magplar felt perfectly balanced before the last round of buffs and the "fix" to RD that basically undid the last nerf...

The damage of DF is too high, most of the sober templars said that was the last thing we needed when the patch notes came out. What is and has been complained about is being hit by RD at high health. When you can show me Aenlir, Ara, Blab, or any other good templar doing that, then I'll actually believe that it needs addressing. Until then, you don't see them doing that because it's a dps loss and makes them vulnerable. On all of the other jesus beam threads, as soon as I say this, people go quiet, or ignore it and start talking about something else.

I disagree with you on who we'd rather have pressuring us in an Xv1 situation, but we play different classes with different weaknesses, and that's fine. What's not fine is calling for nerfs because of situations where you are heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. Sounds like bad balancing to me.

40 seconds in, Aenlir entropy > radiants a guy oh his horse at 87% health. Ara toppling charges > radiants the guy and he dies to their beams before he can even fall to the ground. I'm watching through the rest of it now.

Also I'm not calling for nerfs because of situations where I'm heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. I'm calling for nerfs because of situations where the numbers are even, or where I'm slightly outnumbered but still able to prevail if not for this stupid ability.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261961/video-aenlir-and-ara-duo-magicka-templar-carnage/p1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoZC9wmOTO4

Edit: I'll go ahead and reiterate what seems to have gone over your head. Blab admits that magplar is overtuned right now, and Aenlir and Ara leveled and are playing identical magplars right now because they are amused at how op they are. Aenlir has laughed about it to me in conversation many times. It's hilarious.

On a v12? Yeah, let's see them doing that on a good player, and preferably one with impen and knowledgeable about pvp.

That guy would be dead just as quick as two NB's lotus fanning in with a prox det and hitting concealed weapon at the same time. And that's a video you yourself could probably demonstrate.

Also, 1:50 in he's being Xv1'd and a templar puts jesus beam on him, same thing at 2:58, and there are more examples. I don't see him blow up, is that because he's a good player and able to deal with it?

1% good players still not a reason to nerf a skill that replaced our best 1vx skill in protecting our house.

We asked for balance in how we dealt dmg. And despite ZOS ignoring the suggestions we asked for, RD got a consistency buff in that channel skills should not be dodged. Period. This skill was always a clear ko if you tagged CC, df then RD. Why complain now? No Templar usedit primarily because if multiple beams hit one target, the dmg was shared...

It's working as intended and now people complain.

If no one used to use it, then why would they complain then? There's no guarantee that "working as intended" is balanced. I miss your point.

No one used it because the dmg was nerfed after another Templar popped RD whereas other skills still applied full DMg despite multiple sources. Too much risk over reward and that doesn't align with the intent ZoS has stated the game should be.

If range is reduced, them dmg should be increased. Or add evasion to promote magicka utility. Ebb and flow balance.

That is entirely not how balance works. Sigh...

Let me spell it out. If something did op damage before but no one used it, then people wouldn't realize that it was that strong alone.

And also, if something is op, you don't take power from one place and add power elsewhere. You trim power where it is excessive.

I argue that the range component of RD is excessive. Others argue that you instadie at 30% health, which I've seen a lot of with 13k crits and whatnot. Whether or not you agree is up to you, but I believe gap closers should be able to reach radiant spammers. Others believe that you shouldn't get one shot by radiant at 30% health.

Bosov · May 2016

Please change something about it, it annoys me so much when i fight multiple people for a while and get a good 1vX but then some noob shows up and starts spamming RD at me while i have full health. The moment the other people get me to low health or even 40% health that noob templar will destroy me with his RD spam

Or people sitting at the back of a zerg spamming it.... so annoying.

Edit : i play a mag dk with double sword and board so interrupting him is quite hard if he is 41 meters away. If he is next to me deep breath does the job but they never are that close..

Xsorus · May 2016

Its got two problem

Range

and the 50% execute range..

Bofrari · May 2016

The real problem isn't radiant or anything else the fact is people are so used to being able to faceroll Templars except now they hit back and people don't like it it's a l2p issue were going to actually have to work for the kill now instead of easy mode.

Artis · May 2016

Templars no need to be so insecure. I'm sure your Jesus beam's length and diameter are not below average.

KenaPKK · May 2016

JDC1985 wrote: »

The real problem isn't radiant or anything else the fact is people are so used to being able to faceroll Templars except now they hit back and people don't like it it's a l2p issue were going to actually have to work for the kill now instead of easy mode.

Nah, I'm more rational than that.

Also, templars were never easy / faceroll to kill.

maxjapank · May 2016

Bosov wrote: »

Please change something about it, it annoys me so much when i fight multiple people for a while and get a good 1vX but then some noob shows up and starts spamming RD at me while i have full health. The moment the other people get me to low health or even 40% health that noob templar will destroy me with his RD spam

Or people sitting at the back of a zerg spamming it.... so annoying.

Honestly. You all have the worst reasons for asking for an unnecessary nerf. You want to 1vX, and yet you are unhappy that you get killed by X. And you want to blame the Templar's Radiant, even though it's likely any of the other players or their skills would have killed you. Furthermore, you throw out this arbitrary number of 40%, as if the Templar killed you from there. What a bunch of %#$%.

maxjapank · May 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Its got two problem

Range

and the 50% execute range..

Bull.

Joy_Division · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Honestly, I'd rather have a sorc pressuring me with his whole kit than a templar holding radiant on me for the whole engagement. A sorc standing at 25m has Wrath, Shock, and Frag to shoot at me, none of which apply the same pressure as RD. I'll dodge or block the frags, and the other abilities deal little damage.

And don't say block RD. You don't block radiant. You'd lose your whole stam pool sitting there holding block forever. That isn't how you play against it.

Also I am of the opinion, as are many, that DF is doing too much damage, and I don't like how the heal debuff applies even if you roll dodge the projectile. Damage + heal debuff + empower is a bit much, just like WB's damage + cc + empower, so idk if it's a fair comparison. I'd hate to have either spammed on me.

I think as blab put it, he likes how his one DF forces the opponent to use both a purge and a heal, putting him on the offensive advantage. That's also how WB worked -- you had to both break the cc and heal the damage that it and the empowered followup dealt in the meantime.

My impressions of magplar come from Aenlir and Ara's explanations of their current states of balance and how their kits work when in a high dps spec. They are of the opinion that magplar is stupid op, so they are enjoying running around in their magplar duo.

Blab has also said that magplar felt perfectly balanced before the last round of buffs and the "fix" to RD that basically undid the last nerf...

Also I'm not calling for nerfs because of situations where I'm heavily outnumbered and going to die anyway. I'm calling for nerfs because of situations where the numbers are even, or where I'm slightly outnumbered but still able to prevail if not for this stupid ability.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/261961/video-aenlir-and-ara-duo-magicka-templar-carnage/p1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoZC9wmOTO4

Edit: I'll go ahead and reiterate what seems to have gone over your head. Blab admits that magplar is overtuned right now, and Aenlir and Ara leveled and are playing identical magplars right now because they are amused at how op they are. Aenlir has laughed about it to me in conversation many times. It's hilarious.

That's not what you told me.

I don't like situations where players are helpless. Counterplay and decision making should abound in a game like this. Yea, I could just cloak it off, but I'm not speaking for me here. I'm speaking for the players who don't have such easy access to a counter.

So it boils down to you're just mad at a stupid ability you think is preventing you from winning fights. K, whatever. You are entitled to your opinion. But you didn't need to b***s*** me (not that I believed it).

And I'm not buying

One templar holding radiant on a full health player from the back of a group can deliver 12k+ ticks to targets as they dip below 40% health or so, basically lowering their effective health in combat by that 40%.

As if as if no other classes can hide in a zerg and deal high damage. I'm sorry, counterplay and decision do not somehow end just because a templar from far away begins to cast Radiant Destruction and players are not helpless. My health is not effectively lowered by 40% against a tactically inept templar who spams Jesus Beam at me at full health precisely because I use coutnerplay. If they are RDing my at full health, my counter is to ignore the templar, thank the enemy for replenishing my magicka via harness, and murder her friend she is hiding behind with puncturing sweeps (which heals me and thus also acts as a counter to RD). If I get in trouble and my health drops, I adapt different tactics to deal with the situation. If there is any LOS around, I will cast harness magicka and make my way to it while throwing out a Blazing Spear to stun her friend chasing me. If there is no LOS around I will cast harness magicka and attack the defenseless and immobile templar with a charge. I will have prox det active, she is going to eat 4 jabs and If I have CC immunity either from her friend previously stunning me or a pot, there is at least a chance I can get a burst kill if I have Dawnbreaker up. Of course there is no guarantee for success and in fact in both instances I am at a disadvantage because I am the one under pressure. However, these are both are plausible options for a skillful player. If this is a 6v1 or something, then yeah, I am going to die and do so miserably. But let's not pretend it's because of RD. To read some people's complaints about this skill, they act as if they never got killed by a templar 1vXing pre 1.6.

Counterplay happens every night. In fact, it's in the very video you link. You are spending too much time fixated on Anleir and Ara horseganking a V12 and not nearly paying enough attention to the instances in which Aenlir is outnumbered, attacked by Jesus Beam, and yet, somehow someway, not only survives but also wins.

And what Blab said did not go over our heads. Blab is a great player, but his opinions are not Truths and just because we do not agree with his perspective doesn't mean we didn't understand it.

I know you are a regular poster here and I usually respect and agree with what you say, but I'm sorry, I got to call you out on this. You are making false statement (RD not blockable), exaggerating the effectiveness of something you don't like ("I die" at 40% health, people just lose 40% "effective" health against this ability but not to others), trying to hide behind "speaking for others," complaining that you don't wins fights when you deliberately chose to remove your best defensive ability, and falling back on the logical fallacy of appealing to an authority. If RD was such the cheesy skill that allowed nubs to kill players they otherwise wouldn't be able to do, then you would not have to resort to such a poor argument to make your case.

As for everyone else, no doubt there are a lot of people on these forums sick and tired of me defending this ability and are convinced I am biased or just utterly clueless. Whatever. They are entitled to their own opinion. Opinions are like a**h****, everybody has one. But I at least have the decency to not to lie, speciously exaggerate, pretend I speak for the greater good of the game, actually use correct facts, cite ZoS's stated opinions, use examples to illustrate my assertions, and have tested the ability so I know how it works in game.

This doesn't mean I am right and that RD is not a potentially problematic ability. It means that most of the arguments people make are seriously flawed and often demonstrate a lack of knowledge about the very ability they are trying to make a judgement about.

zyk · May 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

The problem isn't Radiant per se.

The problem is that the four classes in ESO are not balanced around a particular theme or "vision." Class skill balance is haphazard. See Radiant, Cloak, Ward, BoL, Wings (year ago), etc. No skill exist in a vacuum, all excel in different scenarios. And therein lies the rub: ZoS has no clear vision for each class, no point about which they are balanced. Nor any point about which we, the players, can provide feedback.

My opinion is the following:
1. Statement of vision for each class. What should it be good at, and what should its weaknesses be? Which scenarios?
2. What are the "class defining" skills as declared by ZoS. What are the CON-OPS for each?
3. Solicit player feedback. Host a tournament.
4. More options for skill morphs. Passive "morphs".
5. (long term) More skill lines per class.
6. (longer term) New classes.

I agree. I think that as players, our investment of ego and emotion in some characters is too great for us to see the forest for the trees. We need someone from ZOS to provide context and objectivity. But I do not believe such a person exists.

This goes beyond classes to Stamina, Magicka and hybrid build balance.

On the subject of RD, I think that its range promotes ridiculous gameplay. IMO, its range needs to be changed to match that of Impale or it must become dodeable. Its shortcoming, that it is a channel, is irrelevant from 40m away.

I will also say that I think the 2.2 Templar was a very strong class and far better balanced than the 2.3 Templar. I think the 2.3 Templar has gone off the rails.

Cryhavoc · May 2016

My only problem with RD is that it is a frikkin lazer beam...

Can they make it a holy javelin "thrown with god-like strength" so it fits with our skill set?