What makes a good Tank?

FrostFallFox · May 2016

This is the last type of character I need to make but I'm really scared because I don't know how it works.

I think I understand that I need to taunt, bash, CC, and stuff but what else?

Do I focus on resistance (Armor Master), Max health, or recovery?

I'm in between a Dragonknight or a Templar.

I just want to come in clutch during trials :'(

dimensional · May 2016

Well oiled treads and a big barrel.

FrostFallFox · May 2016

dimensional wrote: »

Well oiled treads and a big barrel.

Girl Stahp

Eocosa · May 2016

If you want your tank to be a tank for the VERY hardest content and want to do leader board runs it sounds like you essentially need to be a DK from everything I've read. If not then any class can tank fine and its whichever you prefer when it comes to class, heck I tank as a Sorceror!

Class stuff aside being a good tank generally comes in phases: 1 you staying alive so you can stop a full wipe makes you a meh tank, keeping your team mates alive makes you an okay tank, buffing your teams dps while doing the above makes you a good tank, and finally being able to add SOME dps while doing all of the above makes you a great tank!

Essentially you don't ever sacrifice something listed earlier on the list for something listed later.

Having said that your stats essentially become a pass/fail in many respects as you want to stack mitigation and survivability stats up until the point you comfortably do not die anymore barring some major mess up, as soon as you hit that point you want to get abilities that buff your group such as warhorn and the DK chain pull (brain farting it's name) to pull adds into your DPS's AOEs. Then and only then you can focus on buffing your damage.

Having said all of that, when you start off focus on making all your stuff survivable (Max resists, plenty of health, plenty of stamina for blocking/bashing/taunting) and once you are comfortable getting your group through content without people dieing then you can begin to pull away some of your health or whatever is unnecessary to add to more damaging things.

Hope that makes sense/helps!

Nestor · May 2016

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pve-nb-tanks-for-starters-compendium-of-information-theory-and-insight-2-0/

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/256178/tank-gear-setups-and-tips-for-newcomers-to-the-field

There are a couple of really good threads on tanking and other dungeon roles, but I can't find them right now. We don't have the best search here.

Silver_Strider · May 2016

For trial tanking.

1) Survivability - If you are getting 1 shot, even thru block, there is a problem. Build up enough health/resistance that this doesn't happen.

2) Sustainability - If you cannot maintain your resources, you will fail. Engine guardian can help but it shouldn't be your only means of sustain. Histbark is still one of the best tank sets because it help you to maintain stamina by passively dodging hits. Also, enchant at least 1 piece of jewelry for block cost reduction, it really helps in the long run.

3) Group utility - A tank that can survive is nice. A tank that also offers support is even better. Warhorn, shields, CCs, etc. Anything that helps the group progress faster and more efficiently is always appreciated.

That's a cheap run down of it.

As for DK vs Templar, I find DK to be better tanking trials. DK have so much group utility with chains, shields, Major Brutality/Sorcery buffs, etc that a Templar just cannot match. DK also have better resource management as they can just use Earthen Heart Abilities to recover stamina and so regardless if it's a magic or stamina DK tank, they always have a way of passively recovering their stamina to block, to say nothing of Battle Roar and it's OP resource restoring properties.

elantaura · May 2016

I have found like healers many tanks achieve great outcomes with slightly different set ups. That is something I have learned I have a tank and know about 9 tanks now, my NB is a 9 trait heavy crafter so I got to talk to lots of them and I have found they all have different armour set ups more than any other class with traits and preferance.

I think we all agree Survivability (obviously) the ability to stay alive the longest and res while taking damage it if needed. I.e taunt, magma,res is useful or hold the boss without healing if say healer goes down. A good tank often is the difference between a recovery or a wipe.

Resource management - this is the bit personally I am always tweaking and messing with. I don't have as high health as some friends but more than others I know but I have more recovery and high resistance. It works for me but I have known tanks with more and less health/ recovery etc. the best advice I was given while stressing about health resistance and resource by other tanks was "why are you stressing over it you really just have to get to where your doing you job comfortable with resources you got and not dying. That's slightly different for all of us."

Most of the best tanks I know - the ones running trials, icp etc are dragonknights, I do know one Templar tank that fits in with those end game tanks used by guild for trails. The other 4 are DK. The reason seems to be they can survive well with there class abilitys when poop hits the fan magma armour and morphs, dragons blood and morphs cc talons, chains.

ITs the one character I am always tweaking a bit here and there lol.and it often seems to depend on whom I am running with, with regular groups I will do stuff to help because I trust them to kill stuff and heal etc with strangers well let's say not so much no trust, I stay alive and taunt the boss adds etc. so it's absolutely lower on my priority list.

I tried a lot of combos of armour coming up levels, but my vet 16 armour is currently armour master 5 piece, pariah 5 piece and engine guardian 2 piece. But I was making hist bark with varied combos for a long time, and early on before I had a tank myself for my tanking friends on console. Again I know tanks running armour master and seducer, others with hist bark, bulwark, agility....( most want armour master though) but in my expierience they are more varied than most class builds.

CasNation · May 2016

To me, a great tank has full control of the battlefield. To thank end, a DK I'd almost required, if only for chains and talons. I ran with a very good tank last night in VCOA, and boy was it like night and day compared to normal tanks. Playing as the dps, it was easier to get higher parses and clear trash faster because everything was in the optimal place for me to do my job. Tank is intrinsically a support role, though they can add to dps as well. But in my mind, being a good tank means allowing the other team members to perform with as little stress and difficulty as possible. DPS can DPS harder, and the healer can focus less on heals and more on DPS themselves.

Rune_Relic · May 2016

Priority order for me:
1. Damage Sink. Stay Alive.
2. Grief Magnet. Keep group alive by distraction and CC...primarily the healer. Draw focus. If the healer dies everyone dies even if you will be the last to fall. You need to get them back up.
3. Buff engine. Debuff NPC and Buff group to keep them working as well as possible. Synergise.
4. Backup role. Step in with additional DPS or Healing if you have time to spare. Especially any DoTs/HoTs you can throw.

How you achieve those objectives depends on skills/gear/experience etc.
With a well built team you'll be looking at gear and synergy coordination too.
DK are pretty much made to measure.
Not saying you shouldnt experiment with other classes if you enjoy them.
But you'll have to work harder.
IMHO.

Things are changing. Especially with DB. Many people will be experimenting with builds yet again.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · May 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Priority order for me:
1. Damage Sink. Stay Alive.
2. Grief Magnet. Keep group alive by distraction and CC...primarily the healer. Draw focus. If the healer dies everyone dies even if you will be the last to fall. You need to get them back up.
3. Buff engine. Debuff NPC and Buff group to keep them working as well as possible. Synergise.
4. Backup role. Step in with additional DPS or Healing if you have time to spare. Especially any DoTs/HoTs you can throw.

How you achieve those objectives depends on skills/gear/experience etc.
With a well built team you'll be looking at gear and synergy coordination too.
DK are pretty much made to measure.
Not saying you shouldnt experiment with other classes if you enjoy them.
But you'll have to work harder.
IMHO.

Things are changing. Especially with DB. Many people will be experimenting with builds yet again.

You have 1 and 2 backwards! You need to get and keep the boss on you! If you arent doing that you might as well be dead!

Yes im a dps.. So what?

swirve · May 2016

The Brits or Germans make good tanks...

Sansoul · May 2016

FrostFallFox wrote: »

This is the last type of character I need to make but I'm really scared because I don't know how it works.

I think I understand that I need to taunt, bash, CC, and stuff but what else?

Do I focus on resistance (Armor Master), Max health, or recovery?

I'm in between a Dragonknight or a Templar.

I just want to come in clutch during trials :'(

M1 Abhrams.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Sansoul · May 2016

swirve wrote: »

The Brits or Germans make good tanks...

Ummm... have you heard of the M1? Nothing else on this planet is even in the same league....

LadyNalcarya · May 2016

For me, "good tank" means:

1) Survivability and sustain. Obviously, a tank has to be able to withstand heavy attacks, and resource management is very important.
2) Positioning. Moving bosses around so their frontal attacks wont hit the team, stacking trash packs so dds can easily aoe them...
3) Group utility - such as buffs and debuffs. For example, war horn and fire weapons buff.

swirve · May 2016

Sansoul wrote: »

swirve wrote: »

The Brits or Germans make good tanks...

Ummm... have you heard of the M1? Nothing else on this planet is even in the same league....

So literal... i almost put a ww2 reference in...but thought it would be clear where i was going...

Rune_Relic · May 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Priority order for me:
1. Damage Sink. Stay Alive.
2. Grief Magnet. Keep group alive by distraction and CC...primarily the healer. Draw focus. If the healer dies everyone dies even if you will be the last to fall. You need to get them back up.
3. Buff engine. Debuff NPC and Buff group to keep them working as well as possible. Synergise.
4. Backup role. Step in with additional DPS or Healing if you have time to spare. Especially any DoTs/HoTs you can throw.

How you achieve those objectives depends on skills/gear/experience etc.
With a well built team you'll be looking at gear and synergy coordination too.
DK are pretty much made to measure.
Not saying you shouldnt experiment with other classes if you enjoy them.
But you'll have to work harder.
IMHO.

Things are changing. Especially with DB. Many people will be experimenting with builds yet again.

You have 1 and 2 backwards! You need to get and keep the boss on you! If you arent doing that you might as well be dead!

Yes im a dps.. So what?

You wont be a grief magnet if you are one shot

You want the healer focusing on the most fragile players....DPS.
Not the tank unless they have no choice.
That tank should be as self sufficient as possible and delay death for as long as possible without heals.
Thats is why you focus on health, health regen, armour with enough resource to block/dodge/taunt when required...plus other stuff when you can.

If that tank isnt resilient and the healer goes down....the team wipes.
If the tank is resilient and the healer goes down...they may actually be strong enough to get the healer back up...and the healer get the rest up.

Svalinn · May 2016

Unluckily it seems that in order to be a good tank you need to be a minmaxer DPS

Jokes aside... i think that the most important part of beeing a tank in this game is positioning and equipment.

I didn't say "knowing the bosses moves" etc.. because i consider it obvious ^^

CaptainBeerDude · May 2016

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Priority order for me:
1. Damage Sink. Stay Alive.
2. Grief Magnet. Keep group alive by distraction and CC...primarily the healer. Draw focus. If the healer dies everyone dies even if you will be the last to fall. You need to get them back up.
3. Buff engine. Debuff NPC and Buff group to keep them working as well as possible. Synergise.
4. Backup role. Step in with additional DPS or Healing if you have time to spare. Especially any DoTs/HoTs you can throw.

How you achieve those objectives depends on skills/gear/experience etc.
With a well built team you'll be looking at gear and synergy coordination too.
DK are pretty much made to measure.
Not saying you shouldnt experiment with other classes if you enjoy them.
But you'll have to work harder.
IMHO.

Things are changing. Especially with DB. Many people will be experimenting with builds yet again.

You have 1 and 2 backwards! You need to get and keep the boss on you! If you arent doing that you might as well be dead!

Yes im a dps.. So what?

Nope. They are right. No point taunting if you get 1 shot every time. 1+2 could be combined though.

jkemmery · May 2016

Sansoul wrote: »

swirve wrote: »

The Brits or Germans make good tanks...

Ummm... have you heard of the M1? Nothing else on this planet is even in the same league....

Challenger 2 and Leopard 2 are both in many ways superior to the Abrams. They all use the same gun but the British and German tanks have better fire control systems. They all use the same armor principle, but here the Abrams is probably the most capable of sustaining damage, but only just. The 2 European tanks accelerate much faster and burn far less fuel, and the Leopard is lighter so they can use bridges the Abrams cannot. The Israeli Merkava is just as survivable, and deadly, but slower, but it can carry a squad of infantry as well.

If I were a tank commander, I would pick the Leopard for it's greater mobility and overall lethality.

I served with 2/5 Cavalry during desert storm as a member of a tank brigade, equipped with Abrams.

Also, only one Abrams equipped unit EVER won the Canadian Army Trophy.

Bofrari · May 2016

The bracing passive in heavy armor tree

susmitds · May 2016

Knowing how to live and let live.
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Seriously.

elantaura · May 2016

Oh yeah It's going to be different with the DB, it will with every content it seems and on that note however; If history teaches us anything it's that I wouldn't pick a Templar tank as there is one thing I have learned as a broard generalisation. They like to nerf Stamina, Templars and Tanks so that's just asking for trouble.

Pyr0xyrecuprotite · May 2016

A good tank must:
1. Be able to take boss damage without dying; so you need good health and a lot of stamina for blocking, and self heals. You are the Meatshield.
2. Be able to hold aggro on the boss and elites, and keep them away from the others. Make sure you have FTC or some other utility that shows your taunt timers.
3. Always position yourself and the boss so that others can focus on their roles with minimum damage.
4. Know all the dungeons and boss fights well - more important for you than anyone else in the group. This includes knowing when and how to focus on taunting adds and keeping them away from the boss, e.g. for gold key vet Crypt and Banished Cells.
5. Since you are focusing on the boss the entire time, you must be able to call out the timing of specific fight mechanics on voice chat, and be able to keep track of mechanism timers

A GREAT tank should:
6. be able to cc and group adds/trash so that it's easy for the DPS to kill them fast
7. easily switch to high DPS mode (usually with alternative gear) for fights where a tank is not needed, e.g. Planar Inhibitor or Engine Guardian
8. be able to survive an 80k hit from the Manticora in Sanctum Ophidia (generally requires maxed physical resist)
9. do significant DPS in addition to tanking
10. provide buffs for the team, and SAY which they are using, so that there is no duplication. Percentage-based buffs like Warhorn or Major Brutality (from Molten Weapons) are great even if the tank does not have high weapon or spell damage; the Ebon armor set extra health can be useful (altho is not necessarily the best set for some dungeons); DK shields or Boneshield (from the Undaunted line) can be situationally useful, etc.
11. HOLD THE BOSS STATIONARY IN ONE SPOT when the DPS have cast their ultimates, so that it takes the full effect from damage over time of Meteor or Nova etc. - don't let the boss run away elsewhere to escape the damage. Obviously, you should also always activate the synergy effect of spells cast on the boss location, to increase damage done.

code65536 · May 2016

I posted a bit on this in another thread...

code65536 wrote: »

I have two characters capable of tanking, and they fill very different roles.

I have a magicka DK with a tanking setup that is suited for a "traditional" tank role.
Very defensive and "tanky"

Lots of support capabilities: Chains for mob positioning, Talons for area CC and mob positioning, and Deep Breath for AoE interrupts

Reliable resource management: guaranteed stamina from each stomp of my foot, and ultimates restore my resources

Does virtually zero damage

Mediocre self-healing

To further compound her role as a support machine, she wears Blood Spawn + Tava's so that I'm an Aggressive Warhorn factory.

My DK is the tank that I'll use if asked to tank a trial, and for 4-man content, it's a tank that I don't mind using if I know that I'm in a good group--a group that could actually make use of the type of support that I provide. However, I hate running a PUG dungeon with my DK tank because it places me at the mercy of the rest of the group. If I get a good group with good DPS, it's fun to tank with my DK. If I'm in a bad group, with bad DPS, all the support that I provide is wasted, and since I'm incapable of doing much damage or healing, I can't carry the group and am helplessly at the mercy of the rest of the group.

Usually, if my DK tank ends up in a bad PUG, I switch her out of tank into light-armor-and-staff DPS (maybe with a sword-and-shield back bar to off-tank a boss) because otherwise things just don't die. But switching to light-armor "tanking" usually means me dying a lot. This is why I rarely do Group Finder as a tank on my DK.

My main is a magicka nightblade and she too carries a set of tank gear in her bag... and she's the best tank for 4-man content and for PUGs.
Squishier and not as "tanky" as my DK, but that's fine for the 4-man content in this game.

Very good DPS (by tank standards, at least). And very good self-healing. I can solo most normal dungeons in my tank gear.

Very limited support capabilities.

Resource management is tougher, as Siphoning Attacks is an RNG proc, and light-attack procs of SA require that I drop block, which isn't always feasible.

The gear setup is also very different. I run heavy Kagrenac's, Engine Guardian (it's good for a nightblade tank since I have a cheap spammable ability--Funnel--that I'm casting every GCD, and it fills the gap left by the nightblade's mediocre resource management), Willpower, and Torug's. It's like a DPS setup, except in heavy. I have a bit over 25K health and 17K stam--both stats are worse than what I have on my DK--but I also have 33K magicka and 2K unbuffed Spell Damage. With that much magicka and SD, I can out-DPS many PUG DPSs. And with that much magicka and SD, I put out a lot of off-healing (Funnel is better than Swallow) and usually am not too worried about bad healers.

The way my tank "supports" the group is that I provide a lot of DPS and off-heals (well, a lot by tank standards), and War Horns or Veils whenever the situation calls for it. It's great for 4-man content because, there, the DPS contribution from the tank can actually make a difference, and it's awesome for running PUGs because if I get a bad group, I have the DPS and heals to carry them. I would not even consider taking her into a 12-man trial, however, as she is simply not the kind of tank you need for that sort of content.

So, really, it depends. You want to tank 4-man content and do well in Group Finder? Nothing can beat a magicka nightblade tank for two simple reasons: Funnel Health and Sap Essence. These abilities are (1) insta-cast and block-castable (you do not want to be stuck in a channel or cast animation while tanking, and you need to be able to block-cast while tanking) and are (2) class abilities, which mean that you can use them regardless of what weapon you have equipped, allowing you to use sword-and-board on both bars. Couple that with the healing from both abilities and Funnel's range, and this is why nightblades are simply unmatched in their ability to do DPS as a tank. No other class comes even remotely close.

If you want to be a traditional tank with good survivability and awesome support capabilities, you really have to go with a DK. Especially for something like vMoL, where talons, chains, and AoE interrupts are all very important. When it comes to supporting the group, the no other class comes remotely close to the DK.

I love both of my tanks, and I have a lot of fun tanking on both characters. But it's two very different playstyles.

There are different tanking playstyles and different kinds of content to tank. If you want to tank trials, you want to maximize group support. I.e., you want enough survivability to stay alive, and then once you reach that point, you want to focus everything on supporting your group.

I'm at the CP cap, so I can get a lot of damage mitigation from CP. My DK runs 2p Blood Spawn, 5p Tava, and 5p Ebon. The Blood Spawn and Tava combination gives her a ton of ultimate generation to keep popping War Horns (in competitive trials, this is very important), and Ebon gives everyone in the group an extra margin of health. If you don't have much CP, you'll probably want to replace Ebon with Footman. Armor Master, in my opinion, is an overrated set: tanking in ESO is largely a resource game, and AM doesn't give you much in that department, and it also provides zero group utility either directly or indirectly; don't use it.

As for what the tank should do... well, you should taunt the boss. Face the boss away from the group. Position the boss if appropriate. Apply Minor Maim to the boss (Heroic Slash, a nighblade's shades, or Choking Talons--and yes, even though Talons won't actually affect the boss, they still do apply the Minor Maim debuff). Interrupt a boss's special attacks, either through bashing or through a DK's Deep Breath (which, BTW, is an awesome skill: AOE interrupt, plus a self heal plus a little bit of AOE damage). If you're a DK, in trash pulls, chain things in and Talon them to help the DPS AoE them down and throw in a Deep Breath or two for interrupts.

Shadesofkin · May 2016

Standing the heck still while you block, knowing how to ask for shards if you're running out of stamina, crafting yourself some tri-pots.

Blocking...effectively.

Not sucking.

Svalinn · May 2016

Pyr0xyrecuprotite wrote: »

A GREAT tank should:
6. be able to cc and group adds/trash so that it's easy for the DPS to kill them fast
7. easily switch to high DPS mode (usually with alternative gear) for fights where a tank is not needed, e.g. Planar Inhibitor or Engine Guardian
8. be able to survive an 80k hit from the Manticora in Sanctum Ophidia (generally requires maxed physical resist)
9. do significant DPS in addition to tanking

Let me translate this into a simmpler way... in order to tank, as i said before joking... you need to be a DPS :P

Tonnopesce · May 2016

Svalinn wrote: »

Pyr0xyrecuprotite wrote: »

A GREAT tank should:
6. be able to cc and group adds/trash so that it's easy for the DPS to kill them fast
7. easily switch to high DPS mode (usually with alternative gear) for fights where a tank is not needed, e.g. Planar Inhibitor or Engine Guardian
8. be able to survive an 80k hit from the Manticora in Sanctum Ophidia (generally requires maxed physical resist)
9. do significant DPS in addition to tanking

Let me translate this into a simmpler way... in order to tank, as i said before joking... you need to be a DPS :P

More or less is true the more damage you do ( or the more support you give) the less the bossfights will last is a win/win.
The same rule apply to the healer if the boss is burned down and the adds die fast there is no need to overheal everyone.

BigBressler · May 2016

I'll give you an example of my build. My main is a Templar Tank With 29k resistances unbuffed, and 42k HP with food. I am able to tank trial bosses easily. Blazing Shield is a Tanklar's best friend when you prioritize HP. Mine gives me a 13k damage shield. Channeled Focus helps you almost spam Blazing Shield with its magicka regen buff. Not only does it give you MP regen, but also it gives Major Ward, and Major Resolve increasing my Armor and Spell resistance to pass the 35k mark. When I run out of MP, I just hold Bock until my MP goes back up, and Heavy Attack for stamina when Blazing Shield is up. Every now and then I need a tri pot, but that's usually because I messed up my rotation some how. I can easily tank Craglorn Trials. Have yet to try Thieves Guild Trial.

People say DK's are the best tanks, and maybe they are; I don't know, but I've found my home with the Templar class. They are certainly capable.

Edit: I'd also like to add that in burn phases I have J-Beam on my bow bar to help with the DPS. Also Purifying Light to give the DPS a bit more damage output to compensate for my lack of DPS.

lathbury · May 2016

Sansoul wrote: »

swirve wrote: »

The Brits or Germans make good tanks...

Ummm... have you heard of the M1? Nothing else on this planet is even in the same league....

lol

lathbury · May 2016

jkemmery wrote: »

Sansoul wrote: »

swirve wrote: »

The Brits or Germans make good tanks...

Ummm... have you heard of the M1? Nothing else on this planet is even in the same league....

Challenger 2 and Leopard 2 are both in many ways superior to the Abrams. They all use the same gun but the British and German tanks have better fire control systems. They all use the same armor principle, but here the Abrams is probably the most capable of sustaining damage, but only just. The 2 European tanks accelerate much faster and burn far less fuel, and the Leopard is lighter so they can use bridges the Abrams cannot. The Israeli Merkava is just as survivable, and deadly, but slower, but it can carry a squad of infantry as well.

If I were a tank commander, I would pick the Leopard for it's greater mobility and overall lethality.

I served with 2/5 Cavalry during desert storm as a member of a tank brigade, equipped with Abrams.

Also, only one Abrams equipped unit EVER won the Canadian Army Trophy.

challenger 2 is the most survivable of those listed in fact. it also has the longest tank on tank kill in history and one survived multple strikes from rpg's wire guided anti tank missles and ieds. it uses dorchester mk2 amour and if im not mistaken the the abrams uses the older dorchester mk 1. The abrams has the best communications suite making passage of target data and command and control a doddle. the leopard is the more manoeuvrable an arguably has the best loading mechanism. my experience of the abrams is a little less then the other 2 as was a brit grunt but worked a lot with danish leopard squadrons.

In one encounter within an urban area, a Challenger 2 came under attack from irregular forces with machine guns and rocket propelled grenades. The driver's sight was damaged and, while attempting to back away under the commander's directions, the other sights were damaged and the tank threw its tracks entering a ditch. It was hit directly by 14 rocket propelled grenades from close range and a MILAN anti-tank missile.[20] The crew survived, remaining safe within the tank until it was recovered for repairs, the worst damage being to the sighting system. It was back in operation six hours later, after repairs had been done. One Challenger 2 operating near Basra survived being hit by 70 RPGs in another incident.
A Challenger achieved the longest confirmed kill of the war, destroying an Iraqi tank with a DU round fired over a distance of 5,100 metres (over 3 miles)—the longest tank-on-tank kill shot recorded.

Deadfinger6 · May 2016

About a 200 litre with UV light and little treasure chest,