Sugaroverdose wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Easy bow build. Stam nb.

5x eternal hunt - Mobilise easy soft cc to keep range.
5x marksmen - Obvious reasons.
1 Bloodspawn
1 Kena.

Bar 1 Bow - Ult - Flawless Dawnbreaker.

Bombard - Root.
Draining shot - cc with snare.
Crit cloak - Free crit and some survivability.
Psn Injection - Your mean dps skill which you will weave, can also use venom arrow if you prefer.
Relentless Focus - Dmg buff/ regen buff as well as the burst in the build.

Bar 2 - 2h - Incap strike/ Meteor/ Soul tether/ ww Etc.. Person choice.

Rally - Obvious reasons
Shuffle - Obvious reasons
Shadow image - Minor main, extra dmg as well as the best mobility in the game.
Vigor - Heal obviously.
Mass hysteria/ Sa/ Free slot basically.

Pretty sure that will work fine, You'll be dodge rolling a lot hence the high regen so spec into roll reduction. Should be easy enough to play, buff up, stick shadow image. CC as soon as you can, root when you want, weave with psn injection. Use relentless proc, cloak when needed.

You have zero chance of ever killing a good stamina DK or magicka sorc with that build, as it lacks the necessary burst damage.

Maybe next patch it'll be slightly better with disease dmg dealing Relentless, but I'd say it's still not enough.


In a duel, I can hit a stam DK with a Lethal+Heavy Attack+PI combo from Shadowy Disguise with a full dmg setup of Marksman & 5k weapon dmg, and it still isn't enough burst - next thing you know you're crit rushed & snared, roll dodging & spamming bombard trying to create distance, steadily running out of health and stamina - and then you die.

Only thing capable of creating distance (when it works) is Shadow Image (I wonder how stam DKs & templars would do a bow build...), which is a bandaid fix to the main problem:

You don't have enough time to deal any damage before someone uses gap closer on you, and you can't really prevent those gap closers by any means.

What's the difference if you will be ranged magicka templar or ranged magicka nightblade or ranged magdk? Only one who have ability to instantly break distance is sorc.

Yes, but how is that relevant to the thread? :P

All those builds deal the same damage at range as they deal in melee, where as bow is reduced to tickling damage and your only decent direct damage ability (Snipe) gets interrupted 99% of time.

Not to mention the lack of any decent damaging ultimate for bow builds.


But to be honest, the main thing keeping melee builds away from magicka sorcs isn't streak, you can always gap close that. What keeps melee builds away are the mines & the awesome area denial they provide.

More ranged builds need area denial like that, especially bow builds.

How much times snipe get's interrupted? I didn't ever seen anyone who stop attacking and starts bashspaming(which also will not let them kill 'sniper'). Mostly snipe spam may get interrupted only if you face magsorc with destro, and shock+LA weaving, if sorc uses shock+MA weaving he will not be able to interrupt 50% of casts.
Compare it to darkflare and you get same result.

Every ranged build have downsides, just adapt, if you think that your attacks deals not enough damage - get damaging sets, 50% of them don't even care about your stats and boosts only from CP and % damage output buffs.

And, it's relevant to the thread because topic starter does says that "magicka builds are good at range while bow users not"

Ehm... maybe you're not aware, but in the bow skill line there's a passive that grants +12% damage based on your range to the opponent.

Also, if you try to spam Lethal Arrow at melee range I don't know what to tell you... Same goes for Dark Flare.

The only difference between those two is that a Snipe cast from melee range tickles, where as Dark Flare still deals full damage.


Hopefully this sheds some light as to how range dependent bow is.

Furthermore, ranged magicka builds have access to good direct damage that doesn't scale with distance to target, such as:

Funnel Health
Force Pulse (or Crushing Shock)
Blazing Spear
Aurora Javelin
Frost Clench
Jesus Beam

Where as bow has only Lethal Arrow as direct damage (rest being DoTs or utility skills) and all the damage scales based on distance, which is impossible to maintain with 0 cooldown gap closers and no area denial.


Oh, I'll also give you 100k gold if you find a bow build dealing more damage than mine (Marksman +8% & 5k weapon dmg).

javelin cost a lot and does scales of distance.
Blazing spear is first hit CC, but in fact it's nothing more than ground-based aoe
Frost clench doesn't really deals much damage it's more viable as root if you don't have another
Jesus beam is 3k hits for non execution range targets and it's cannot be considered as 'good range damaging ability' it's channeling execute after all.
Force pulse isn't good damaging ability, it's good way to interrupt, weave on sorcs until frag procs, and counter to dk reflect

Funnel health only one ability from this list which is pure damaging ability without any downsides.

xeloki, 20k heavy attack. PS4 EU Sugaroverdose, will wait for mail.

Buddy, I know Xeloki (Alcast) in game & I'm aware of his videos.

However, the build I have is the most burst damage you can currently get out of stealth, far surpassing anything else in the game.

My Lethal Arrow tooltip reaches 26k & with proper timing lands at the same time as a heavy attack and a poison injection for a total of 30-40k burst damage.


But that's all the bow does - gank.

Which is a problem.

I still want my 100K.

Then what about to make more direct requests like: reduce damage output but increase range control? Are you want ability to lock everyone in place and play in 'duck hunt'? Or what?

I can't really get what do you want to see, because you only talking that "bow is sh*t"(while it isn't) and don't even try to make some suggestions how to make it better without making it OP.

What? Can't tell if you're trolling at this point.

Let me recap what I've suggested so far:

• Increase the range of all bow skills (and light/heavy attacks) to match that of Snipe.
• Increase the traveling speed of Snipe and/or reduce cast time+damage to prevent multiple projectiles from landing at the same second.
• Fix Scatter Shot (and morphs), remove the anti-synergy between other bow skills (damage from Poison Injection instantly breaking disorient from Scatter Shot).
• Revamp Scatter Shot to knockback target & apply schrapnel mines on ground in front of target to provide some much needed area denial, and help you stay at long range.
• Passively allow casting skills while sprinting when bow is equipped.
• Add stamina based pets that can CC and/or immobilize opponent to help you keep distance to target.

None of this would buff the only strong aspect of bow, burst damage.

Instead, it would make the other aspects more desirable & could make bow work as the main weapon for other people than the Xv1ers.


Tell me how that would be a bad thing?

Or would you rather that every bow user is a ganker or Xv1er, and the remaining stam builds spam Wrecking Blow?


Just curious, have you even played a bow build? I've been playing one whenever possible since 2014.

1. OP (light armor builds mostly will die before getting in range of their abilities, focused aim now isn't OP just because you need to be in 28m range before you get boosted range)
2. Bugfix
3. Bugfix
4. Spammable Immobilize, OP (this one makes mele magdk duck with reflects)
5. OP (Major expedition from roll dodge and damage while sprinting, good thinking)
7. Spammable Immobilize, OP (this one makes everyone duck)

Want immobilize - use trap beast, or reroll into stamsorc and use new 28m mines which arms instantly.

1. I didn't know that to use your defensive abilities you have to be in range of the opponent. Also, I don't get what you're trying to say about Focused Aim (a skill no one uses, because Lethal is better in every way). You get the extra range even if you hit someone with it from 40m away, but it's not worth it because by the time the arrow lands that someone is already in gap closer range & you'll never get 30+m range again, meaning your bow gameplay is over at that point.
2. Bugfix? This is not a bug, it is game mechanics & knowledge of how to use them. Doesn't mean I think it's balanced.
3. There is no bug here either. Scatter Shot is a "Disorient" currently. Disorient effects are broken by damage, which has a lot of anti-synergy with almost every other bow skill. Side note: same goes for Nightblade "Agony" & its use with destro staff or Cripple.
4. Spammable immobilize that you can block, roll dodge out of, use efficient purge, use forward momentum (yes, you can use this as a magicka build too if you slot 2H) or simply ignore while turtling up with reflect. Alternatively you can use chains & bring that pesky bow user to you, then spam talons for unblockable permaroot (which of course is totally balanced). You used the worst example of classes for the issue of permaroot (yes, it's an issue and not just with bombard...).
5. Yeah, because bow users able to kite at the cost of spending additional stamina (sprint cost) would be horrible indeed. They should all be immediately gap closed & forced to go melee, because that makes for a diverse & interesting gameplay for everyone. Do you even listen to yourself?
6. (Not 7). Why would that be any more op than any of the other immobilizes in the game?


I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here. If bow is so overpowered, then where are all the builds that use bow the majority of time, instead of swapping to 2H or DW when that stealth instagib fails?

Also, I've used Trap Beast and guess what: that one trap is not enough of area denial to make Bow builds able to kite.


You are being counterproductive. Having bow focused (not bow off bar) builds become more viable doesn't take anything away from your gameplay & enjoyment.

NBrookus wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

But bow shouldn't JUST be a support weapon. It's an iconic piece of tech that has been the deciding factor of winning a war. One well placed arrow shot in the human body is lethal but this game doesn't reflect that, it feels like firing nerf arrows some times (lol)

Granted this is a fantasy game and we don't have to stick to RL rules, but if you want to talk about bows winning wars...

Archer groups, strategically placed at range, were devastating in battle. Archers could break up formations and soften up the enemy before other forces engaged them; they were also excellent used to defend fortified positions. What we've never seen winning wars are uncoordinated individual archers in mass combat deciding a battle. The bow IS a support weapon. Even Mongol horse archers eventually got off their horses and finished the job with melee weapons.

Fundamentally, that's what archers do in ESO PvP as well, except since there's no friendly fire they can continue to rain down damage after the main forces have engaged.




Hmmm... I want horse archery now. 6 horse archers slamming into the enemy's flank? Sweet.

Except that all other roles are just as good - or better - at being "support", while also being able to do other stuff such as 1v1 or 1vX. Having to rely on either instagib ganking or having others to make up for your weakness doesn't really make me feel strong and powerful when using bow.

Furthermore, it encourages the bow users to Xv1 people because they aren't strong enough to 1v1 or 1vX.


So at the moment if I was a player solely interested in playing an archer/hunter type character, I'd move on to other MMO because they offer a better experience at that.

I'm playing a Ranger in BDO at the moment, and it's light years more enjoyable than playing a Bow focused build in ESO.

This is obviously not what anyone who cares about this game would want.