bitaken wrote: »

10/10

Sad thing is some players truly enjoy clicking left button to make AP.

See : Don't take my siege weapon post on page 1.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/263370/would-you-support-the-idea-of-making-siege-weapons-restricted-to-personal-use/p1

I mean - people all wigged out about their cold fires honestly believing it is their best method to earn AP sadden me so.

I don't get all the anti-siege elitism. Ap is Ap. Stop with the melodrama. It actually does take some skill to know where to position and aiming and making sure you're actually putting pain on groups of players who are blobbing, especially those who are moving fast. Siege is literally you're ONLY and best line of defense during an invasion. Sieging choke points can be very effective and lucrative at gates and bridges. It is just one more tool in the arsenal of warfare. Make the most of it. If getting owned by siege makes you THAT mad, maybe don't play a fantasy game based on medieval warfare?

I would argue it takes more skill to get kills with siege than it does with RD in a zerg of randoms. At least siege requires basic aiming and timing.

God_flakes wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

10/10

Sad thing is some players truly enjoy clicking left button to make AP.

See : Don't take my siege weapon post on page 1.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/263370/would-you-support-the-idea-of-making-siege-weapons-restricted-to-personal-use/p1

I mean - people all wigged out about their cold fires honestly believing it is their best method to earn AP sadden me so.

I don't get all the anti-siege elitism. Ap is Ap. Stop with the melodrama. It actually does take some skill to know where to position and aiming and making sure you're actually putting pain on groups of players who are blobbing, especially those who are moving fast. Siege is literally you're ONLY and best line of defense during an invasion. Sieging choke points can be very effective and lucrative at gates and bridges. It is just one more tool in the arsenal of warfare. Make the most of it. If getting owned by siege makes you THAT mad, maybe don't play a fantasy game based on medieval warfare?

Take any good pvper that you know and respect and have them fight and use their skills. Now take a level 20 and put him/her on a siege hitting the inner breach, and doing nothing but left clicking. There is a very good chance that the level 20 will make similar or greater amounts of AP than the really good pvper that not only has to employ their skill to get kills, but maneuver and stay alive in a hostile location. The level 20 is in minimal to no danger safely meatbagging from the outer 2nd floor battlement the entire fight.

That's just one reason for the anti siege elitism. The overtuned damage numbers, the fact that larger numbers are able to make better use of siege in the majority of engagements because they have the numbers to spare, the fact that we have these overtuned siege numbers in a meta of permaroots/snares and damage from other sources already being high, are other reasons.

You're isolating one instance of siege being used and generalizing. I am V16 and consider myself a decently skilled NB and I often operate siege in defensive situations. I am on that siege blasting choke points and jumping off and using my individual skills to siphon and heavy resto my foes and then rinsing and repeating. I assure you this takes a certain amount of skill, especially after 3 whiskey's on the rocks. Enjoy the game. Let the lowbies have their fun. Everyone just have some fun-siege it up or don't siege it up. But please stop demanding the devs remove or otherwise nerf integral medieval warfare dynamics because you're butt hurt some lowbies are racking up kills with oils.

I'm not asking for them to be removed, just be toned down so the damage isn't on a moronic level. The integral mediaval warfare dynamics kind of go out the window when someone whips out a trebuchet from their backpack and starts firing it one second later on the front flag ... INDOORS xD

Much of the frustration with siege stems from outnumbered fights where greater numbers just encircle with insta-pop siege in a meta where mobility has been gutted. Putting siege on chokes in keeps is tactical and adds flavor to fights, so long as the damage isnt dumb. Dropping siege every engagement in open field fights is idiotic; you didn't see that last patch because people could actually move so more often then not it was wasted effort. In the majority of open field fights I've been in this patch, while outnumbered, the other side drops a forward camp, puts siege down, spams bombard, and sends raid 2 and 3 in after the first has wiped. Hyperbole is rampant on the forums, but those are literally what fights are like in this patch. No one should be defending or encouraging that.

Zheg wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

10/10

Sad thing is some players truly enjoy clicking left button to make AP.

See : Don't take my siege weapon post on page 1.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/263370/would-you-support-the-idea-of-making-siege-weapons-restricted-to-personal-use/p1

I mean - people all wigged out about their cold fires honestly believing it is their best method to earn AP sadden me so.

I don't get all the anti-siege elitism. Ap is Ap. Stop with the melodrama. It actually does take some skill to know where to position and aiming and making sure you're actually putting pain on groups of players who are blobbing, especially those who are moving fast. Siege is literally you're ONLY and best line of defense during an invasion. Sieging choke points can be very effective and lucrative at gates and bridges. It is just one more tool in the arsenal of warfare. Make the most of it. If getting owned by siege makes you THAT mad, maybe don't play a fantasy game based on medieval warfare?

Take any good pvper that you know and respect and have them fight and use their skills. Now take a level 20 and put him/her on a siege hitting the inner breach, and doing nothing but left clicking. There is a very good chance that the level 20 will make similar or greater amounts of AP than the really good pvper that not only has to employ their skill to get kills, but maneuver and stay alive in a hostile location. The level 20 is in minimal to no danger safely meatbagging from the outer 2nd floor battlement the entire fight.

That's just one reason for the anti siege elitism. The overtuned damage numbers, the fact that larger numbers are able to make better use of siege in the majority of engagements because they have the numbers to spare, the fact that we have these overtuned siege numbers in a meta of permaroots/snares and damage from other sources already being high, are other reasons.

You're isolating one instance of siege being used and generalizing. I am V16 and consider myself a decently skilled NB and I often operate siege in defensive situations. I am on that siege blasting choke points and jumping off and using my individual skills to siphon and heavy resto my foes and then rinsing and repeating. I assure you this takes a certain amount of skill, especially after 3 whiskey's on the rocks. Enjoy the game. Let the lowbies have their fun. Everyone just have some fun-siege it up or don't siege it up. But please stop demanding the devs remove or otherwise nerf integral medieval warfare dynamics because you're butt hurt some lowbies are racking up kills with oils.

I'm not asking for them to be removed, just be toned down so the damage isn't on a moronic level. The integral mediaval warfare dynamics kind of go out the window when someone whips out a trebuchet from their backpack and starts firing it one second later on the front flag ... INDOORS xD

Much of the frustration with siege stems from outnumbered fights where greater numbers just encircle with insta-pop siege in a meta where mobility has been gutted. Putting siege on chokes in keeps is tactical and adds flavor to fights, so long as the damage isnt dumb. Dropping siege every engagement in open field fights is idiotic; you didn't see that last patch because people could actually move so more often then not it was wasted effort. In the majority of open field fights I've been in this patch, while outnumbered, the other side drops a forward camp, puts siege down, spams bombard, and sends raid 2 and 3 in after the first has wiped. Hyperbole is rampant on the forums, but those are literally what fights are like in this patch. No one should be defending or encouraging that.

Note the word FANTASY, Zheg. Look, I don't want to belabor the point. This whole siege grief has gone on and on for two years. First it was too strong, then too weak and now too strong. Sometimes I feel bad for the devs-we are like a fickle lover who want how we want it now. We make demands, they comply, and still we aren't happy. It's time for us to just play and have fun. Stay out of the circles, sneak up on siege lowbies and kill them and burn their siege. It's very satisfying. And the reason people are using siege in open field fights is to break up the blobs. We demanded they up siege damage to break up the blobs! They complied and look, you're not happy.