Svalinn wrote: »

I really just wanted to share the experience so that everyone can find their own "meaning" in this story.

So here i was, trying to level up an alt to finally play the Thief Guild and the next Dark Brotherhood DLC (My vet 16 tank is really not the character i want to play in a "stealthy way") and in my guild chat i read "is there any tank willing to come and help with dialies?"
"Why not" i tought.. "after all even if i stopped playing my tank on a regular basis i can still use it to help guildies in need".. so i switched characters and joined the party.
One of the players in party was not a guildie, just a DPS that decided to join for the gold pledge in banished cells.
The first thing i did was telling everyone that i didn't have experience with vet dungeons so they had to tell me what to do "step by step" on boss fights... and the answer i received from the DPS was: "no problem, this is an easy dungeon", just before seeing him rushing in on his own.
And well... yeah... i got to admit he was kind of a "super" dps in terms of damage.. strong enough to rush on his own into rooms and kill most of the enemies by himself.
We eventually arrived at the first boss and killed it quite easely only to be "rewarded" in group chat with a: "uhmmmm... this took longer then usuale" from our fellow DPS.
We kept going on and reached another boss... during the fight our healer had a spike of lag and we wiped.
"how could you die with this boss.. it's a soo easy fight!"
Well the lag was explained and we decided to just keep going and, after that, we managed to reach the final boss quite easely and with no problem at all.
Before going into the fight the DPS stops everyone and start explaining me the "perfect strategy" to kill the boss and get the gold pledge done: "so tank you just have to aggro the adds during the whole fight while we nuke the boss down".
"ok" i answered... expecially since it was my first time in there.

We went in... and we wiped.
Second try... and we siped.

DPS: "guys how can you possibly die i here it's a so freaking easy dungeon!"

Third try... wiped
Fourth try... wiped

DPS: "Sorry guys... with you it's impossible to complete this dungeon your damage is just not high enough" was the last thing said before leaving the party.

So we were left in three and decided to search for a new DPS.. eventually finding a friend of a group member available to come.

As soon as we were 4 again we started one more time with the strategy the "super player" told us to use... and we wiped.
That was when one of the "normal players" said: "ehy, let's just kill the adds until the boss has 10% of health left.. then we leave 3 of them spawn and we kill the boss super fast.. that should do it".

First try, boss killed, gold pledge done.

As i said... i leave everyone finding his/her own conclusions ^^

the super dps strategy was right. but ur second DD prob had low dps. this usually only works with a good group. and a tank that can grab all of the daedroth while range taunting the boss. also when you get lifted in the air you have to go to the blue/red aoe to purge the curse

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Also, many groups are convinced that they are too weak to do some of the "difficult" content. In fact they're perfectly fine, it's just that noone teaches them the non-burning strats, adequate for "normal, not-super-high DPS"

smh....

This is my normal dungeon group to a tee.

We have little chance to burn bosses. Ain't going to happen. We MUST learn the mechanics else we're doomed.

Doing so, though, makes our incremental victories all the sweeter.

OP, hmu if u want another "normal" player to run/learn dungeons with. Just put an @ in front of my user name and you'll find me.

Don't forget about the wise guys that use the Group Finder tool for Monster helmet runs.

Had a guy kill all the wraiths, and screwed everyone out of a Gold key.

I hope there's a special place in Coldharbor for those individuals.

Ahhhh dungeons, they have their own kind of entertainment. Some you get by just doing the dungeon. And another form of entertainment, by silly group members. Some so silly they leave the dungeon after the first death. Its a dungeon, a group is required because it is hard. Its kind of rare to not die at least once, unless you got a good team.

But some dungeons are laughing at you. I was doing Blackheart Haven a few days ago. We were at the last boss, the darned Blackheart himself. We tried 5 times, and we got better and better each time. We got closer and closer to killing him each time. All of us were tired of dying and our gear was going to hell. I said in the chat "the developers are laughing at us". But no, we were sure as hell determined to kill that little piece of scum! And sure enough we got him the next try. Now that, is an amazing group to run with. When everyone is so committed to finishing the dungeon. To feel that hurrah and huzzah cheer of victory when the last boss falls. Now that was a hell of an ending, and the feeling of victory you get after trying and trying and finally nailing it, just awesome. Thats one kind of dungeon I love.

phreatophile wrote: »

VDoom1 wrote: »

But some dungeons are laughing at you. I was doing Blackheart Haven a few days ago. We were at the last boss, the darned Blackheart himself. We tried 5 times, and we got better and better each time. We got closer and closer to killing him each time. All of us were tired of dying and our gear was going to hell. I said in the chat "the developers are laughing at us". But no, we were sure as hell determined to kill that little piece of scum! And sure enough we got him the next try. Now that, is an amazing group to run with. When everyone is so committed to finishing the dungeon. To feel that hurrah and huzzah cheer of victory when the last boss falls. Now that was a hell of an ending, and the feeling of victory you get after trying and trying and finally nailing it, just awesome. Thats one kind of dungeon I love.

Had the same sort of experience in Blackheart earlier this week. On the fourth try DPS and Heals stayed up top and the Taunted him to us, went great. I enjoyed that more than a couple other groups in other dungeons this week where we sailed through.

Yeah we went with the hill strategy. I was the tank so everyone else was up on the hill. I lured him up there and then it was pretty easy. Yeah his pesky archers came, but to hit us they had to bunch up in that narrow path. So it was easy to kill them to, and we tried to corner Blackheart as much as possible. In the end thats how we go him. Definitely a strategy I recommend.

Rylana wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

dps who wear full heavy armor, put points into stam and use single target magicka spells in aoe pulls

What's wrong with this? I have a dps orc stamina templar in heavy armor and 2H/Staff, Vampire's Kiss set, I usually pull ads away from tank by using templar's aoe. With this set and BoL I'm quite safe and supporting healer too. For the boss I use ranged radiant opression.

Although I never did any full pledge, just normal dungeons, in which that build is quite effective. You think I will have trouble in this veteran pledge? Or my group having such dps?

I remember I killed Lamia Queen in Arx Corinium with just one another sorc player, when other 2 players in group was constantly dying from water shocks or red circles and finally we gave up on reviving them. It's true that some people don't listen when you try to explain boss' mechanics multiple times. Even their multiple deaths teach them nothing.

there is quite a lot wrong really if you are looking to be a dps heavy armour is a no no as is using 2h and using a staff on a stam build. mixing magic damage skills and stamina ones is also not very effective as you end up reducing the effectivness of both.

What if I told you I have a heavy armor magicka DK that pulls about 20k sustained single target DPS. Would you still act so elitist?

Player ability > cookie cutter BiS build. Even a "perfect" build will perform like garbage with a garbage player, whereas a good player can make anything work.

What if I told you that you can easily do double the damage if you run LA? There is nothing wrong with playing in Heavy Armour if you want to play this way.
But that doesn´t help the fact that a hybrid build in HA will never perform even remotely acceptable in terms of dps.

dday3six wrote: »

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

andryuhav wrote: »

But that actually is a very easy dungeon. Just saying...

So which one are you? A Bash bash dps troll or a maxed out vet16 snob? Every dungeon is difficult the first time we do it especially the veteran ones.

Dungeons may seem difficult to players who don't take the time to optimize their play. ESO is certainly light on in-game methods of pointing players in the right direction. Another issue being dungeons differ greatly from the rest of the game. However, if players don't swim upstream in regards to build optimization and actually know how to evaluate and adapt to the difference in mechanics dungeons aren't that difficult. Whether it's their first time and/or veteran difficulty.

If they're not difficult for the vet16 snobs then

lathbury wrote: »

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

dps who wear full heavy armor, put points into stam and use single target magicka spells in aoe pulls

What's wrong with this? I have a dps orc stamina templar in heavy armor and 2H/Staff, Vampire's Kiss set, I usually pull ads away from tank by using templar's aoe. With this set and BoL I'm quite safe and supporting healer too. For the boss I use ranged radiant opression.

Although I never did any full pledge, just normal dungeons, in which that build is quite effective. You think I will have trouble in this veteran pledge? Or my group having such dps?

I remember I killed Lamia Queen in Arx Corinium with just one another sorc player, when other 2 players in group was constantly dying from water shocks or red circles and finally we gave up on reviving them. It's true that some people don't listen when you try to explain boss' mechanics multiple times. Even their multiple deaths teach them nothing.

there is quite a lot wrong really if you are looking to be a dps heavy armour is a no no as is using 2h and using a staff on a stam build. mixing magic damage skills and stamina ones is also not very effective as you end up reducing the effectivness of both.

Although theres no question that medium armour is better for stamina dps builds there's nothing wrong with experimenting with heavy armour. May be quite useful for close range weapon damage builds who need that extra protection and you could put more attributes into stamina instead of health to boost damage. Also with mixing magicka with stamina I think there is a benefit. Having only 1 or two skills that rely on magicka with stam dps' could give you buffs in damage and damage protection when running low on stamina and theres no need for a large magicka pool because most of these don't cost much. Mixing magicka and stamina for damage though I agree, not a good idea because each one will be limited by the other. If you're a templar wanting to do damage you could go a few different ways. Mines is a magicka templar healer/dps hybrid. The other way would be stamina dps tank or full dps. Most of the templar dps abilities can be morphed into stamina such as aedric spear. Id defo advise one or the other.

your first statment is the point I was making if you are dps heavy armour is not as good as medium or light for that role. even sets like ravager will not compete with hundings. now using magicka skills as utility is fine and I have no argument there but using them for damage on a stam build is inefficient as is using a staff. they would be better served taking a bow or dw as secondary depending on whether they wanted the dots from bow or the massive aoe from dw.

Yup I agree with you that's the way I would go about it although I think it's better for experienced players to give people advice on how to make their preferred fighting style work rather than tell them they're doing it wrong. Afterall this is a diverse game. Later someone wearing heavy armour with stam dps might decide later that they're pretty useful In taking the occasional tanking role in some dungeons and maybe decide to develop their character even further as a hybrid. Creating a list of do's and don't for players is restricting experimentation and making this game a battleground for OP dps' who only care about how much damage everyone is doing.

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

@Svalinn uf you are on the NA server you could hit me up @Zagnut123 im always looking to run dungeons with new people and help em out. I hope that elitist didn't ruin your experience dungeons are quite fun imo.

Thanks, don't worry i didn't post this becuase it "ruined my experience" i will keep playing and nope... "Unluckily" i'm in the EU megaserver for PC

DenniMyuu wrote: »

But hey, it's always the healer's fault.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxS7eT_ky4

Had one the other night who wouldn't wait for two of us to grab the quest and pitched a fit when I wanted a moment to change up my back bar to remove a couple of skills I was leveling but were not optimal. He was rude enough that we bailed and he continued to send us trash talk tells all through the next dungeon.

I just put him on ignore but a little l'esprit d'escalier:

Over here on the left you'll see the Common Aszhatus Dungeonaris emerging from his natural habitat. You'll note the attempts to assert dominance by flaring and waving his colorful epeenage about and frequent shows of aggression. Their call is rightly considered to be repellent and bears greater resemblance to a carrion bird's squawk than any actual communication. Though hardly rare, it's always fun to watch one in action for comic relief.

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

That's unfortunate however do expect to find players like this, these "super" players are pretty much elitists BTW what platform are you on?

I agree. These are elitists, who think just because they have x amount of dmg and/or crit, or just because they have this-and-that gear that they don't have to worry about anything else. People who pug should understand that no matter how high your DPS is you are going in the dungeon as a team, or else you might as well solo it if it's "too easy" (which by the way, I'm pretty sure a number may have done that by now).

I run either healer or DPS, and have been "pug-ing" vet dungeons since v1 on my main. For some reason people were friendlier then, in my experience. Back then dungeons scale to leader's level still, so they know if they were higher than me, they have to explain the mechanic of the dungeon and be patient with me. Of course, that didn't happen 100% of the time, but recently I have noticed that more people are more impatient. One time I pug-ed vICP (just for fun), and our healer and tank decided that the DPS was low, the other DPS was like v5, and honestly, considering he was v5, DPS wasn't that bad. Posted my DPS (28kdps), and the tank said "normal", I left the group. And explained to the other DPS, that I had zero tolerance to toxic players and players who think that just because they're v16s they're already better.

Again, since you are entering the dungeon as a group you have to work together. Personally, before starting a vet dungeon, I check what level my teammates are. I would not expect people to do insane DPS or healing or tanking when some members are lower ranks, I check what classes each play, I assess if they are stam or magicka, and what skills/buffs they are using and it would help if people inform the group if they have not done the dungeon before, all this and more must be considered. Most of the time, vet dungeons are not completed because people do not consider other people in group. If you pug, you must take each run as a unique run, because people may have completed it differently than how you may have. And as much as there is specific mechanic in vet dungeons, there can be different approaches to complete it.

The moral of the story being that particular type of DPS was wrong to stay in the group, you being new made BC instantly a "completion run" and not a pledge. Coming from someone that completes pledges on multiple characters daily I've found I too grow frustrated when I say "hey maybe this team can do this" and it almost always turns into a marathon not a race.

Not that I would rage or demean, there is no reason to act asinine after all. I would though leave the group in terms of something that better fit my play-style, the issue I run into with that though is if I leave the group I am seen as just as elitist

I'm sure that there are plenty of players such as this one.

The game is all about stats now. Skill is minor in comparison to stats.

If you have blue v14 gear and 100 cp, those dungeons are going to be hard.

If you have 40k stam or magic and 3-5k damage then these dungeons are laughably easy.

Sadly, there too big a stat gap between the top and bottom players. This was created by the removal of the soft caps.

In my opinion, no dungeon nerfs are needed.

Simply soft caps are required so as to create a ceiling on stats and a rebalance ng of the game in favour of skill.

Lol, this is so funny reading the comments.

I Just don't like that unexperienced people talk trash about people who can do decent damage. Everyone started out as a noob that is just a fact everyone had to learn their class while playing quests, solo dungeons etc.. But when it comes to the group content it can be quite difficult for a unexperienced player to do their job, many do not know what they are supposed to do maybe one who wears heavy armor and a resto staff signed up for healer or someone who uses two hand and heavy armor signed up as tank while he has no taunt to take the aggro. All in all you have to learn a bit to get better at your role.

All in all you may find it annoying to have a dd in the group with a lot of damage but actually it can be more frustrating to have someone in the group who doesn't do damage at all like shooting only arrows with bow and using no skills at all.

Also there are quite a lot tanks that can only taunt one add and have trouble keeping multiple or even one add/boss taunted.

There are a lot of builds out there that help you make a better player, listen to them and make your group pve a lot more enjoyable and less time consuming. Don't expect others to adapt to your play style while they are actually more well informed then the others in the group.