Gold Pledge: Normal Players VS Super Player

Svalinn · April 2016

I really just wanted to share the experience so that everyone can find their own "meaning" in this story.

So here i was, trying to level up an alt to finally play the Thief Guild and the next Dark Brotherhood DLC (My vet 16 tank is really not the character i want to play in a "stealthy way") and in my guild chat i read "is there any tank willing to come and help with dialies?"
"Why not" i tought.. "after all even if i stopped playing my tank on a regular basis i can still use it to help guildies in need".. so i switched characters and joined the party.
One of the players in party was not a guildie, just a DPS that decided to join for the gold pledge in banished cells.
The first thing i did was telling everyone that i didn't have experience with vet dungeons so they had to tell me what to do "step by step" on boss fights... and the answer i received from the DPS was: "no problem, this is an easy dungeon", just before seeing him rushing in on his own.
And well... yeah... i got to admit he was kind of a "super" dps in terms of damage.. strong enough to rush on his own into rooms and kill most of the enemies by himself.
We eventually arrived at the first boss and killed it quite easely only to be "rewarded" in group chat with a: "uhmmmm... this took longer then usuale" from our fellow DPS.
We kept going on and reached another boss... during the fight our healer had a spike of lag and we wiped.
"how could you die with this boss.. it's a soo easy fight!"
Well the lag was explained and we decided to just keep going and, after that, we managed to reach the final boss quite easely and with no problem at all.
Before going into the fight the DPS stops everyone and start explaining me the "perfect strategy" to kill the boss and get the gold pledge done: "so tank you just have to aggro the adds during the whole fight while we nuke the boss down".
"ok" i answered... expecially since it was my first time in there.

We went in... and we wiped.
Second try... and we siped.

DPS: "guys how can you possibly die i here it's a so freaking easy dungeon!"

Third try... wiped
Fourth try... wiped

DPS: "Sorry guys... with you it's impossible to complete this dungeon your damage is just not high enough" was the last thing said before leaving the party.

So we were left in three and decided to search for a new DPS.. eventually finding a friend of a group member available to come.

As soon as we were 4 again we started one more time with the strategy the "super player" told us to use... and we wiped.
That was when one of the "normal players" said: "ehy, let's just kill the adds until the boss has 10% of health left.. then we leave 3 of them spawn and we kill the boss super fast.. that should do it".

First try, boss killed, gold pledge done.

As i said... i leave everyone finding his/her own conclusions ^^

s7732425ub17_ESO · April 2016

You found a stupid super player.

The wisest of us know that you must adapt boss strategies based on the strengths of the group.

Svalinn · April 2016

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

You found a stupid super player.
The wisest of us know that you must adapt boss strategies based on the strengths of the group.

It's interesting that you say "the wisest of us".

To answer this.. and i probably will make my point as to what meaning this experience has to me by doing this, i'll have to rely on other posts we've had on the forum up until now.

When ZOS announced the "nerfs" to dungeons many players on the forums "rioted" saying that there would be no more "challenging" content in the game.

ZOs "replyed" (well not to the players themselves but in a interview at PAX i think... anyway they said it to someone and it was recorded and wrote down xD) that they nerfed such dungeons because "the number of people not completeing it was too high and they want to reach a certain number of people actually completing the content".

So from this we can understand that:

- the majority of people does not complete such dungeons
- a minority of people can be considered "super players" and have no problem completing even the most challenging content to a point where such content is not challenging anymore.

Now you tell me "the wisest of us know that..."... so basically you're telling me that between "super players" we can, once again, divide the players in "wise" and "stupid", like the one i found today.

This leave me with a question: how many "smart" super players are actually in game compared to the total playerbase... and how many stupid super players are actually in game?

I ask because well.. "stupid" super players can very well be one of the reasons why many people does not complete "challenging content" (as we can easely see from my little story) thus beeing part of the problem... and the very same people come on the forum and complain because of the nerf...

I don't know if i made my point clear ^^

KPC13 · April 2016

Was this banished cells by any chance? I've done it both ways (I play as a healer not a tank) and it's true if your in a group with a good team you can do it that way, but I have to say it makes a lot more sense the other way it's easier for everybody.

x_Nathan_F · April 2016

That's unfortunate however do expect to find players like this, these "super" players are pretty much elitists BTW what platform are you on?

Svalinn · April 2016

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

That's unfortunate however do expect to find players like this, these "super" players are pretty much elitists BTW what platform are you on?

I'm on PC

and yeah i know we're expected to find those.. as i said i thinkt this experience of mine can have some meaning to be found for different people that's why i decided to post it ^^

Svalinn · April 2016

KPC13 wrote: »

Was this banished cells by any chance?

Yes it was, i tought i did write it in the post sorry ^^

Suru · April 2016

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

You found a stupid super player.

The wisest of us know that you must adapt boss strategies based on the strengths of the group.

This, every group is different, adjustments must be made sometimes. That guy was just super cocky and stupid. Sorry you had to deal with that mess.

Vaoh · April 2016

Lol. That DPS sounds like a jerk. Whenever I run with randoms I'll simply play to their strengths. If heals are not enough, I'll use my Healing Ward to stop others from dying.

Sometimes I get weak/inexperienced groups. In these scenarios, I'll help them get through the dungeons by playing all three roles.

If the group is hopeless without me, I solo the bosses

Your super DPS who left is not someone I'd ever want to play with from how you made it sound.

x_Nathan_F · April 2016

Doncellius wrote: »

Sometimes I get weak/inexperienced groups. In these scenarios, I'll help them get through the dungeons by playing all three roles.

If the group is hopeless without me, I solo the bosses

Hah same here bud I try my best helping those who are inexperienced, you never know they may become a great player some low ranks asked me to help with a dungeon and I did they were nice to me and I was nice to them he accidentally put darkshade on vet and we completed it

I did try my upmost best to get them through had to solo the first miniboss, grobull and engine guardian but we all pulled through and I will continue to help them

Svalinn · April 2016

x_Nathan_F wrote: »

I will continue to help them

Yeah well... there really are not a lot of people willing to help. I mean.. many don't even want you in party if you don't have already all the dungeon achievements just to make an example.. others act like the one i found today... in fact in the whole months i've been playing ESO i think i found maybe... 1 or 2 players that were good enough they could say the game is not challenging, actually willing to help others :P

paulsimonps · April 2016

I got to agree with one point, a good high dps or like you say "super player" need to be able to change strat when the "super player group" strat fails. Every boss has multiple ways, just got to use that which is best for the group. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Though yea, there are way more that are not "super players" than there are, and those that are can complete almost everything like its a walk in the park. Its hard to cater to both demographics.

And not all "Super Players" are elitists

lolo_01b16_ESO · April 2016

I wouldn't call him a super player, probably not even a good player. In a multiplayer game you should cooperate and adjust to your team. If he had been a good player, he would have recognized, that you can't do the "burn and ignore mechanics" strategy and would have explained how to follow proper boss mechanics.

Also don't let yourself get discouraged by this event, there are many friendly players in this game, you just need a bit luck to find them.

Svalinn · April 2016

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I wouldn't call him a super player, probably not even a good player. In a multiplayer game you should cooperate and adjust to your team. If he had been a good player, he would have recognized, that you can't do the "burn and ignore mechanics" strategy and would have explained how to follow proper boss mechanics.

Also don't let yourself get discouraged by this event, there are many friendly players in this game, you just need a bit luck to find them.

ahah well... the "super" thing is just related to the DPS output.. i really didn't know in which other way to call him basing myself on that xD

And about the other part... i know there are a lot of friendly players in this game.. but want to know why i stopped beeing a tank on a regular basis? Because to tank well, not having the possibility to "DPS BURST" everything, you need to carefully know all the correct movements to do against vet bosses... and in months of gameplay i have been refused in groups so many times because people just wants the "fast run", or i've found out that even inside guilds i couldn't find anyone willing to spend a little time to actually learn the dungeons... because they wanted a fast run, that i just was incapacitated on my purpose of learning the dungeons for so much time that i just decided to let go of my tank and start building other kind of classes.

flguy147ub17_ESO · April 2016

When you pug the strategy you used to actually get the gold pledge is the correct way because its the best way to guarantee to get it done. The other way would require much more experienced players and players who are very high in stats. But the thing is the "super" player actually sucks. He just has gold gear and probably max CP. Any great player will adapt and get it done according to the group. Last night in COH we had to completely adapt on the last boss due to our healer literally having 38k health and 17k magicka, yes our healer. So me and the other 2 players had to adjust our bars due to this one player and he kept dying over and over so as DPS i even had to put obsidian shield for the group on my bar in exchange for inner light, and another put a restoration bar on to help out. We adjusted and got it done, that is what good players do.

Shunravi · April 2016

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

You found a stupid super player.

The wisest of us know that you must adapt boss strategies based on the strengths of the group.

Agreed

NordJitsu · April 2016

Sounds like you didn't actually have a "super player" but rather a player with a really good build who was bad at the game none-the-less because he didn't understand strategy.

He probably took his build from someone else anyway.

I will take a slightly less geared and less optimized player, who has a brain, over a super optimized idiot any day of the week.

Shunravi · April 2016

NordJitsu wrote: »

Sounds like you didn't actually have a "super player" but rather a player with a really good build who was bad at the game none-the-less because he didn't understand strategy.

He probably took his build from someone else anyway.

I will take a slightly less geared and less optimized player, who has a brain, over a super optimized idiot any day of the week.

Any day of the week, every single time

DaveMoeDee · April 2016

Just another player who want to feel good about himself by showing how superior he is and how inferior you are at playing video games. Pretty sad individual.

TheDarkShadow · April 2016

That is not a good player. A good player can predict that burning boss ignore adds strategy won't work with that group base on the dps speed they do thru out the dungeon. A good player can change strat base on the group. Heck even a normal player but with a bit of brain can understand the strat won't work after a couple wipe and change it. He's just a wannabe good player. He copy the strat form people, probably the build too, but can't think of anything if 1 factor change.

susmitds · April 2016

That player is hardly a super DPS. I two manned it, with just a healer supporting me.

susmitds · April 2016

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

That is not a good player. A good player can predict that burning boss ignore adds strategy won't work with that group base on the dps speed they do thru out the dungeon. A good player can change strat base on the group. Heck even a normal player but with a bit of brain can understand the strat won't work after a couple wipe and change it. He's just a wannabe good player. He copy the strat form people, probably the build too, but can't think of anything if 1 factor change.

Burn boss, ignore adds does work fine actually if you have a good defence and mobility. I was experimenting with new and stupid ways to do dungeons like fighting naked and so to enjoy some challenge.

Magdalina · April 2016

Svalinn wrote: »

I ask because well.. "stupid" super players can very well be one of the reasons why many people does not complete "challenging content" (as we can easely see from my little story) thus beeing part of the problem... and the very same people come on the forum and complain because of the nerf...

They are part of the reason alright. I've run with into some of those smart people who after being told it's someone first run run ahead, agro everything, die and say it's your fault, then ragequit lol. But in my experience a much more frequent reason is the less experienced players who refuse to learn. Like I don't see anything wrong with your group not having enough dps to burn that boss, sounds like you were willing to try and learn/adapt which already puts you above many players really. Now the tanks who stand in red, light attack instead of blocking blocking then tell you your healing sucks and ragequit...dps who wear full heavy armor, put points into stam and use single target magicka spells in aoe pulls, then insult you if you try to hint them that they could be uh...more efficient...yeah...

swirve · April 2016

Doncellius wrote: »

Lol. That DPS sounds like a jerk. Whenever I run with randoms I'll simply play to their strengths. If heals are not enough, I'll use my Healing Ward to stop others from dying.

Sometimes I get weak/inexperienced groups. In these scenarios, I'll help them get through the dungeons by playing all three roles.

If the group is hopeless without me, I solo the bosses

Your super DPS who left is not someone I'd ever want to play with from how you made it sound.

When a hero comes along with the strength to carry on...@doncellius

Jimbullbee85 · April 2016

The only bad thing about this game is that it's sooooo good that we're having to share it with the "trolls with hammer" style players that usually play shooters like COD. BASH BASH KILL! That's all they know haha. Unfortunately they are incredibly efficient in pvp and have probably developed an arrogance because of it. Theres also a big problem with maxed out v16 snobs. They're in such a hurry to get through dungeons because all they want is the reward in that gold chest yet some of them have the audacity to whine and moan about it being toon easy when they do it in groups of 4 dps super builds. ZOS should punish these selfish gits because they're making the more difficult dungeons impossible for tanks and healers like me when dps trolls and snobs are dictating the tactics.

andryuhav · April 2016

But that actually is a very easy dungeon. Just saying...

Jimbullbee85 · April 2016

andryuhav wrote: »

But that actually is a very easy dungeon. Just saying...

So which one are you? A Bash bash dps troll or a maxed out vet16 snob? Every dungeon is difficult the first time we do it especially the veteran ones.

lathbury · April 2016

no such thing as super player its a myth

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · April 2016

@Svalinn uf you are on the NA server you could hit me up @Zagnut123 im always looking to run dungeons with new people and help em out. I hope that elitist didn't ruin your experience dungeons are quite fun imo.

Gargath · April 2016

Magdalina wrote: »

dps who wear full heavy armor, put points into stam and use single target magicka spells in aoe pulls

What's wrong with this? I have a dps orc stamina templar in heavy armor and 2H/Staff, Vampire's Kiss set, I usually pull ads away from tank by using templar's aoe. With this set and BoL I'm quite safe and supporting healer too with force siphon if needed. For the boss ranged radiant opression.

Although I never did any full pledge, just normal dungeons, in which that build is quite effective. You think I will have trouble in this veteran pledge? Or my group having such dps?

I remember I killed Lamia Queen in Arx Corinium with just one another sorc player, when other 2 players in group were constantly dying from water shocks or red circles and finally we gave up on reviving them. It's true that some people don't listen when you try to explain boss' mechanics multiple times. Even their multiple deaths teach them nothing.

lathbury · April 2016

Gargath wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

dps who wear full heavy armor, put points into stam and use single target magicka spells in aoe pulls

What's wrong with this? I have a dps orc stamina templar in heavy armor and 2H/Staff, Vampire's Kiss set, I usually pull ads away from tank by using templar's aoe. With this set and BoL I'm quite safe and supporting healer too. For the boss I use ranged radiant opression.

Although I never did any full pledge, just normal dungeons, in which that build is quite effective. You think I will have trouble in this veteran pledge? Or my group having such dps?

I remember I killed Lamia Queen in Arx Corinium with just one another sorc player, when other 2 players in group was constantly dying from water shocks or red circles and finally we gave up on reviving them. It's true that some people don't listen when you try to explain boss' mechanics multiple times. Even their multiple deaths teach them nothing.

there is quite a lot wrong really if you are looking to be a dps heavy armour is a no no as is using 2h and using a staff on a stam build. mixing magic damage skills and stamina ones is also not very effective as you end up reducing the effectivness of both.