Gold Pledge: Normal Players VS Super Player

dday3six · April 2016

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

andryuhav wrote: »

But that actually is a very easy dungeon. Just saying...

So which one are you? A Bash bash dps troll or a maxed out vet16 snob? Every dungeon is difficult the first time we do it especially the veteran ones.

Dungeons may seem difficult to players who don't take the time to optimize their play. ESO is certainly light on in-game methods of pointing players in the right direction. Another issue being dungeons differ greatly from the rest of the game. However, if players don't swim upstream in regards to build optimization and actually know how to evaluate and adapt to the difference in mechanics dungeons aren't that difficult. Whether it's their first time and/or veteran difficulty.

Magdalina · April 2016

Gargath wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

dps who wear full heavy armor, put points into stam and use single target magicka spells in aoe pulls

What's wrong with this? I have a dps orc stamina templar in heavy armor and 2H/Staff, Vampire's Kiss set, I usually pull ads away from tank by using templar's aoe. With this set and BoL I'm quite safe and supporting healer too with force siphon if needed. For the boss ranged radiant opression.

Although I never did any full pledge, just normal dungeons, in which that build is quite effective. You think I will have trouble in this veteran pledge? Or my group having such dps?

Well, if you're stamina dps, you'd profit more from wearing medium armor - it'll give you significant damage increase and better stamina management

Heavy armor gives meagerly better defence than medium and its best passive is reducing block cost which isn't all that useful for a dps.
Your magicka cosing skills(such as BoL and Radiant Opression and, say, Puncturing Sweep morph which I assume is what you mean by templar aoe) scale with max magicka, spell crit and spell damage. Your stamina costing skills(such as whole 2h skilltree and Biting Jabs(stam morph of that skill) ) scale with max stamina, wep damage and wep crit.

Ever since the removal of softcaps the most efficient way to build your character is to spec purely for one or the other, i.e. if you're dps you're generally either wearing medium armor, stacking weapon damage, max stamina, wep crit and using stamina skills or you're wearing light armor, stacking spell damage, max magicka, spell crit and using magicka skills. Otherwise you're kind of gimping yourself unfortunately.

Vampire's Kiss is also a pretty tanky set, you aren't benefitting much from it as dps As a stam dps you could try Hunding's or/and Night Mother's instead and mow everything down 5 times as fast

greylox · April 2016

Nothing worse than people complaining in a pug. If you're so good why aren't you doing it with guildies etc? And why the rush? Yeah no one likes wiping and continually trying bosses but as long as it gets done and everyone has a good time without some 14 year old moaning about dps and strategy then I'm all good.

A mate that plays this game gets angry and stressed all the time in dungeons, thinks everything should be done one way, only wears the 'best' kit because that's what he read about...sod it, I don't want to wear julianos and kena like every Tom *** and Harry. In the end of the day I'm having fun, still getting everything done while he just seems stressed.

Gargath · April 2016

lathbury wrote: »

there is quite a lot wrong really if you are looking to be a dps heavy armour is a no no as is using 2h and using a staff on a stam build. mixing magic damage skills and stamina ones is also not very effective as you end up reducing the effectivness of both.

I'm pure stamina and on main bar keep four 2H skills and one magicka spell (Sun Fire/Reflective Light) which I usually use as first attack before Critical Rush. Probably will change it to spear shards once it's unlocked to aoe more enemies. Then I fight mainly with 2H abilities, and this supporting spell.
If I have some magicka why should I not use a single dot spell which does not drain stamina? That doesn't seem to reduce effectiveness of dps, in fact it raises it a bit, since it's extra damage at start by using secondary resources. I'm not trying to play some smartie, I just found this effective for my playing style.

Radiant only when boss' hp drops, to help others from safe distance. I keep magicka also for BoL to sustain e.g. when healer is down or too busy - I witnessed many situations when healer could not handle all group and sometimes when he accidentally died and was revived, my BoL was helping a lot.

Jimbullbee85 · April 2016

lathbury wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

dps who wear full heavy armor, put points into stam and use single target magicka spells in aoe pulls

What's wrong with this? I have a dps orc stamina templar in heavy armor and 2H/Staff, Vampire's Kiss set, I usually pull ads away from tank by using templar's aoe. With this set and BoL I'm quite safe and supporting healer too. For the boss I use ranged radiant opression.

Although I never did any full pledge, just normal dungeons, in which that build is quite effective. You think I will have trouble in this veteran pledge? Or my group having such dps?

I remember I killed Lamia Queen in Arx Corinium with just one another sorc player, when other 2 players in group was constantly dying from water shocks or red circles and finally we gave up on reviving them. It's true that some people don't listen when you try to explain boss' mechanics multiple times. Even their multiple deaths teach them nothing.

there is quite a lot wrong really if you are looking to be a dps heavy armour is a no no as is using 2h and using a staff on a stam build. mixing magic damage skills and stamina ones is also not very effective as you end up reducing the effectivness of both.

Although theres no question that medium armour is better for stamina dps builds there's nothing wrong with experimenting with heavy armour. May be quite useful for close range weapon damage builds who need that extra protection and you could put more attributes into stamina instead of health to boost damage. Also with mixing magicka with stamina I think there is a benefit. Having only 1 or two skills that rely on magicka with stam dps' could give you buffs in damage and damage protection when running low on stamina and theres no need for a large magicka pool because most of these don't cost much. Mixing magicka and stamina for damage though I agree, not a good idea because each one will be limited by the other. If you're a templar wanting to do damage you could go a few different ways. Mines is a magicka templar healer/dps hybrid. The other way would be stamina dps tank or full dps. Most of the templar dps abilities can be morphed into stamina such as aedric spear. Id defo advise one or the other.

Mush55 · April 2016

If had been so super he would have realised the group was struggling stopped dpsing the boss and took a couple of adds out untill things settled down enough to carry on with the boss.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

That's a general problem with the "strategies".

Most people think they know the dungeons because they simply do what they're told or what they've seen in videos, but they have NO CLUE why they have to do it that way.
And in raids or in groups, most of the time when I ask "why", the only answer I get is "just do as I tell you".
That's also the reason why some people think very high DPS is a must-have even if it's not. It's because without really high DPS, you have to actually play with the dungeons' mechanics, and most people don't know them at all, even if they have breezed through the dungeon a 100 times already.

Who knows why we have to stand apart from each other in the Mage's fight in AA, or in Gamyne Bandu's fight in FG ?

Who remembers or knows there are circles of life that can save your life in case AA's first boss doesn't die quickly enough ?

How many groups are organized with a 2nd tank that goes "downstairs" with three other players in Mantikora fight ?

Who cares about interrupting the white shadows around Bodgan in EH gold key mode ?

Who remembers the good old proven tactics with Hyatt the Battlemeister (last stage VDSA ?)

and so on...

The sad thing is, dungeons are much more fun to play WITH the mechanics than without. But burning is so much easier ! (then people will complain that the dungeons are too easy and boring...)

Also, many groups are convinced that they are too weak to do some of the "difficult" content. In fact they're perfectly fine, it's just that noone teaches them the non-burning strats, adequate for "normal, not-super-high DPS"

smh....

Gargath · April 2016

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

Most of the templar dps abilities can be morphed into stamina such as aedric spear.

Thx for tips, now when you mentioned it, I'll try with stamina Puncturing Strikes/Biting Jabs to see how it works in close fight.

Rylana · April 2016

lathbury wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

dps who wear full heavy armor, put points into stam and use single target magicka spells in aoe pulls

What's wrong with this? I have a dps orc stamina templar in heavy armor and 2H/Staff, Vampire's Kiss set, I usually pull ads away from tank by using templar's aoe. With this set and BoL I'm quite safe and supporting healer too. For the boss I use ranged radiant opression.

Although I never did any full pledge, just normal dungeons, in which that build is quite effective. You think I will have trouble in this veteran pledge? Or my group having such dps?

I remember I killed Lamia Queen in Arx Corinium with just one another sorc player, when other 2 players in group was constantly dying from water shocks or red circles and finally we gave up on reviving them. It's true that some people don't listen when you try to explain boss' mechanics multiple times. Even their multiple deaths teach them nothing.

there is quite a lot wrong really if you are looking to be a dps heavy armour is a no no as is using 2h and using a staff on a stam build. mixing magic damage skills and stamina ones is also not very effective as you end up reducing the effectivness of both.

What if I told you I have a heavy armor magicka DK that pulls about 20k sustained single target DPS. Would you still act so elitist?

Player ability > cookie cutter BiS build. Even a "perfect" build will perform like garbage with a garbage player, whereas a good player can make anything work.

lathbury · April 2016

Jimbullbee85 wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

dps who wear full heavy armor, put points into stam and use single target magicka spells in aoe pulls

What's wrong with this? I have a dps orc stamina templar in heavy armor and 2H/Staff, Vampire's Kiss set, I usually pull ads away from tank by using templar's aoe. With this set and BoL I'm quite safe and supporting healer too. For the boss I use ranged radiant opression.

Although I never did any full pledge, just normal dungeons, in which that build is quite effective. You think I will have trouble in this veteran pledge? Or my group having such dps?

I remember I killed Lamia Queen in Arx Corinium with just one another sorc player, when other 2 players in group was constantly dying from water shocks or red circles and finally we gave up on reviving them. It's true that some people don't listen when you try to explain boss' mechanics multiple times. Even their multiple deaths teach them nothing.

there is quite a lot wrong really if you are looking to be a dps heavy armour is a no no as is using 2h and using a staff on a stam build. mixing magic damage skills and stamina ones is also not very effective as you end up reducing the effectivness of both.

Although theres no question that medium armour is better for stamina dps builds there's nothing wrong with experimenting with heavy armour. May be quite useful for close range weapon damage builds who need that extra protection and you could put more attributes into stamina instead of health to boost damage. Also with mixing magicka with stamina I think there is a benefit. Having only 1 or two skills that rely on magicka with stam dps' could give you buffs in damage and damage protection when running low on stamina and theres no need for a large magicka pool because most of these don't cost much. Mixing magicka and stamina for damage though I agree, not a good idea because each one will be limited by the other. If you're a templar wanting to do damage you could go a few different ways. Mines is a magicka templar healer/dps hybrid. The other way would be stamina dps tank or full dps. Most of the templar dps abilities can be morphed into stamina such as aedric spear. Id defo advise one or the other.

your first statment is the point I was making if you are dps heavy armour is not as good as medium or light for that role. even sets like ravager will not compete with hundings. now using magicka skills as utility is fine and I have no argument there but using them for damage on a stam build is inefficient as is using a staff. they would be better served taking a bow or dw as secondary depending on whether they wanted the dots from bow or the massive aoe from dw.

Mojmir · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That's a general problem with the "strategies".

Most people think they know the dungeons because they simply do what they're told or what they've seen in videos, but they have NO CLUE why they have to do it that way.
And in raids or in groups, most of the time when I ask "why", the only answer I get is "just do as I tell you".
That's also the reason why some people think very high DPS is a must-have even if it's not. It's because without really high DPS, you have to actually play with the dungeons' mechanics, and most people don't know them at all, even if they have breezed through the dungeon a 100 times already.

Who knows why we have to stand apart from each other in the Mage's fight in AA, or in Gamyne Bandu's fight in FG ?

Who remembers or knows there are circles of life that can save your life in case AA's first boss doesn't die quickly enough ?

How many groups are organized with a 2nd tank that goes "downstairs" with three other players in Mantikora fight ?

and so on...

The sad thing is, dungeons are much more fun to play WITH the mechanics than without. But burning is so much easier ! (then people will complain that the dungeons are too easy and boring...)

smh....

this is where a good guild comes into play. even back when i used to run with PUG groups,i never PUG'D a trial. waaay too many variables with 12 ppl. everything i learned about the dungeons was either from guildmates or videos/guides. playing devils advocate theres some basic rules EVERYONE should follow in pledges,trials:

1.) if you dont know the dungeon or mechanics,say something. silence means death
2.) know your role your choosing
3.) players die, it happens!!
4.) no one is a mind reader, even with my guild when we get to a boss i say in chat "everyone know this fight"?
5.) with trials, expect to be grouped or volunteer if you know one side/area better than the other.
6.) group leader doesn't make you god, it makes you a leader
7.) wait for others, blowing through the content doesnt help someone your teaching or doesnt know the dungeon.
8.) dont do no death/speed achievements unless you know the dungeon, theyre not taking it away it will always be there when your ready.

binho · April 2016

I'm a healer and have done most of the content several times,

The thing is, you have good players and bad players. Most DPS are just average but they think they're the best out there! That's when u spend half an hour doing a dungeon even with combat prayer...

Good DPS think outside the box and know there's more then 1 way to finish a dungeon... man, they kill things so fast that no player has time to die lol the DPS on your dungeon was def not one of those.

OP, you did your first dungeon has a tank and managed to finish it! Well done! It's not that easy on your first time

lathbury · April 2016

binho wrote: »

I'm a healer and have done most of the content several times,

The thing is, you have good players and bad players. Most DPS are just average but they think they're the best out there! That's when u spend half an hour doing a dungeon even with combat prayer...

Good DPS think outside the box and know there's more then 1 way to finish a dungeon... man, they kill things so fast that no player has time to die lol the DPS on your dungeon was def not one of those.

OP, you did your first dungeon has a tank and managed to finish it! Well done! It's not that easy on your first time

there seems to be a misconception that these good players you speak of are like super-humans and a normal person cant do these things. They are not what they do is understand thing like how damage is worked out in game then come up with builds that use this knowledge. Then they test and practice that is it. None of this is out of the realms of regular players capability and all classes have builds that will pull high dps etc.
The real difference here is those who look to improve and those who do not.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

this is where a good guild comes into play.

You quote me but nothing you say actually refers to what I wanted to say.

What I meant is that you can complete a dungeon by outDPSing all mechanics a 100 times, and still know nothing about said mechanics, therefore you're clueless whenever the DPS isn't sufficient to burn through everything. Still you'll belive that you *know* the dungeon.
And that happens A LOT in guilds, where you can run the same content 100 times with the same people, not realizing you know nothing about the dungeon, just rushing through it and killing all things along the way.

Within or outside my guilds, I have to ask stubbornly and repeatedly to get the mechanics explained, and most times all I get is instructions as to what I have to do to burn everything down. That is because most times, even group or raid leaders no *nothing* about the actual mechanics, all they know is the "burn tactic".

Actually you learn more about dungeon mechanics in PUGs where DPS is usually lower and you have to adapt and use your brains to find solutions.

DenniMyuu · April 2016

Tbh I am a bit of a rushing super player myself sometimes but usually and especially if you have someone with you who's lacking a bit of experience I rather take the safe and slightly longer route than keep on wiping.

Players like the DPS you described are usually also the one's complaining about the healer when they rush in first and just stand in every AOE possible. But hey, it's always the healer's fault.

Mojmir · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

this is where a good guild comes into play.

You quote me but nothing you say actually refers to what I wanted to say.

What I meant is that you can complete a dungeon by outDPSing all mechanics a 100 times, and still know nothing about said mechanics, therefore you're clueless whenever the DPS isn't sufficient to burn through everything. Still you'll belive that you *know* the dungeon.
And that happens A LOT in guilds, where you can run the same content 100 times with the same people, not realizing you know nothing about the dungeon, just rushing through it and killing all things along the way.

Within or outside my guilds, I have to ask stubbornly and repeatedly to get the mechanics explained, and most times all I get is instructions as to what I have to do to burn everything down. That is because most times, even group or raid leaders no *nothing* about the actual mechanics, all they know is the "burn tactic".

Actually you learn more about dungeon mechanics in PUGs where DPS is usually lower and you have to adapt and use your brains to find solutions.

too each his own, i was quoting you because you mentioned asking for the "whys?".,this is exactly what i went through, i needed to know why and not just get through the task, the guild i joined took the time at every chance to explain the mechanics, hell every week we ran a special raid to specifically teach people the mechanics,its called a "crawl" no time limit,no achievement, we wiped so many times just on manitkora. but a week later,it was fewer deaths and we worked our way through it, thats what a good guild does. everyone forgets they started from zero andon some kind of time limit these days.these go so much easier when everyones on the same page and confident. its the group vs the content,not each other.

Septimus_Magna · April 2016

Haha, so recognizable. Ive had the same while tanking vet BC for a gold pledge.

The dps wanted to burn the boss and ignore killing the adds which is perfectly viable with decent dps.
Because the dps was rather low I was tanking 7-8 adds by the time they finally killed the boss.

They did complement me on my tanking skills though.

The boss that disappears and spawns the adds is a good indication what tactic you should use.
If you see the twilights spawn for the second time dps is probably too low.

schroed360 · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That's a general problem with the "strategies".

Most people think they know the dungeons because they simply do what they're told or what they've seen in videos, but they have NO CLUE why they have to do it that way.
And in raids or in groups, most of the time when I ask "why", the only answer I get is "just do as I tell you".
That's also the reason why some people think very high DPS is a must-have even if it's not. It's because without really high DPS, you have to actually play with the dungeons' mechanics, and most people don't know them at all, even if they have breezed through the dungeon a 100 times already.

Who knows why we have to stand apart from each other in the Mage's fight in AA, or in Gamyne Bandu's fight in FG ?

Who remembers or knows there are circles of life that can save your life in case AA's first boss doesn't die quickly enough ?

How many groups are organized with a 2nd tank that goes "downstairs" with three other players in Mantikora fight ?

Who cares about interrupting the white shadows around Bodgan in EH gold key mode ?

Who remembers the good old proven tactics with Hyatt the Battlemeister (last stage VDSA ?)

and so on...

The sad thing is, dungeons are much more fun to play WITH the mechanics than without. But burning is so much easier ! (then people will complain that the dungeons are too easy and boring...)

Also, many groups are convinced that they are too weak to do some of the "difficult" content. In fact they're perfectly fine, it's just that noone teaches them the non-burning strats, adequate for "normal, not-super-high DPS"

smh....

Just this!! You sum up my tought.
I will never Forget Hyatt mechanics( my main is a tank). But the whole vdsa was à gift as à tank since the first two trial was not really the same.

Magdalina · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

That's a general problem with the "strategies".

Most people think they know the dungeons because they simply do what they're told or what they've seen in videos, but they have NO CLUE why they have to do it that way.
And in raids or in groups, most of the time when I ask "why", the only answer I get is "just do as I tell you".
That's also the reason why some people think very high DPS is a must-have even if it's not. It's because without really high DPS, you have to actually play with the dungeons' mechanics, and most people don't know them at all, even if they have breezed through the dungeon a 100 times already.

Who knows why we have to stand apart from each other in the Mage's fight in AA, or in Gamyne Bandu's fight in FG ?

Who remembers or knows there are circles of life that can save your life in case AA's first boss doesn't die quickly enough ?

How many groups are organized with a 2nd tank that goes "downstairs" with three other players in Mantikora fight ?

Who cares about interrupting the white shadows around Bodgan in EH gold key mode ?

Who remembers the good old proven tactics with Hyatt the Battlemeister (last stage VDSA ?)

and so on...

The sad thing is, dungeons are much more fun to play WITH the mechanics than without. But burning is so much easier ! (then people will complain that the dungeons are too easy and boring...)

Also, many groups are convinced that they are too weak to do some of the "difficult" content. In fact they're perfectly fine, it's just that noone teaches them the non-burning strats, adequate for "normal, not-super-high DPS"

smh....

I don't remember 1.5 Trials very well but trust me most people knew dungeons mechanics in 1.5...or they had no chance of ever completing them lol. I've run with many good people, perhaps not the very best but crazy good and no groups I've run with in 1.5 were able to purely outdps most boss' mechanics. I've heard tales of mythical dps managing to burn ALL the ads on Praxin before he agro-ed, but I've never seen that.

And that was fun. Hell even a lot of my pure PvP buddies were running dungeons because all of a sudden it was fun and rewarding, not just afk button spam. You could actually die. You actually had to follow mechanics. If you refused to learn, you got kicked, period, and that was fair because it was close to impossible to carry a player who didn't listen through most 1.5 dungeons. So a lot of people actually learnt.

But Zeni seems content nerfing all mechanics to where they don't matter anymore with even remotely decent dps, then when people with really low dps still manage to die there Zeni's solution is to nerf it more so that those people can ignore mechanics too. What we need is to buff dungeons back to 1.5 state. Sure forums will be full of people complaining how hard it is but at least no one will be complaining it's just a dps race anymore

There is, or was, btw, a fairly large number of people knowing every single bit of dungeon mechanics inside out(who knows that Nerien's heavy in stage 2 can actually be interrupted, but you have an extremely short time frame to do so? Who knows that Gamyne's Mysery can be dodged? Who knew, before they nerfed it, that Inhibitor's Pinion DoT could also be dodged? Who knows that you can get Vila out of the black hole and into melee safe range if you taunt her from the edge of the circle and back off slowly? Who knows that if you make Skoria break the central platform first in HM he'll only do 1 atro stage and will skip the second one? ...oh what does it even matter anymore...)...but a lot of these people have left/are leaving. Nothing left to do here with repeated nerfs and lack of new (small scale) content. So yeah people will be stuck with dps races and "super players" who don't even know the mechanics themselves beyond "stack and burn". It's sad but it seems to be the direction Zeni wants to go. Less mechanics, more stack and burn for everyone with 3k+ dps.

Mojmir · April 2016

Another thing with pug groups,there's always at least 2 dps,wtf do these guys never communicate? My friends a tank,and always see templars fighting over shards and repentance or caltrops.

Teridaxus · April 2016

They also tend to nuke the boss too fast and i have to tell the group there is only 1-2 daedroths on me...

Therwind · April 2016

Svalinn wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

You found a stupid super player.
The wisest of us know that you must adapt boss strategies based on the strengths of the group.

It's interesting that you say "the wisest of us".

To answer this.. and i probably will make my point as to what meaning this experience has to me by doing this, i'll have to rely on other posts we've had on the forum up until now.

When ZOS announced the "nerfs" to dungeons many players on the forums "rioted" saying that there would be no more "challenging" content in the game.

ZOs "replyed" (well not to the players themselves but in a interview at PAX i think... anyway they said it to someone and it was recorded and wrote down xD) that they nerfed such dungeons because "the number of people not completeing it was too high and they want to reach a certain number of people actually completing the content".

So from this we can understand that:

- the majority of people does not complete such dungeons
- a minority of people can be considered "super players" and have no problem completing even the most challenging content to a point where such content is not challenging anymore.

Now you tell me "the wisest of us know that..."... so basically you're telling me that between "super players" we can, once again, divide the players in "wise" and "stupid", like the one i found today.

This leave me with a question: how many "smart" super players are actually in game compared to the total playerbase... and how many stupid super players are actually in game?

I ask because well.. "stupid" super players can very well be one of the reasons why many people does not complete "challenging content" (as we can easely see from my little story) thus beeing part of the problem... and the very same people come on the forum and complain because of the nerf...

I don't know if i made my point clear ^^

I'm a smart super player, hi.

We complain because absolutely nothing is challenging in this game. ( 4man content) It dosent take a smart super player to figure this out, stupid super players know this too.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · April 2016

with a 'normal' group of players its about 50% of boss health when you let the adds live, with a good group you can let em all live from the beginning
I also tank, and with the 'super' strategy, I've had close to 10 adds pounding on me while the rest of the party is struggeling to get the boss down

nudel · April 2016

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

You found a stupid super player.

The wisest of us know that you must adapt boss strategies based on the strengths of the group.

Pretty much this. I don't know why people feel compelled to tag people as I've never heard anyone describe themselves as a 'super player' before this thread.

In any case, experienced players typically adjust their build to suit the group at hand. As a Templar healer, I adjust all the time. More mag sorcs, mag blades in my group... swap in a destro staff and lay down some elemental drains or mystic orbs. Mostly stam users...better keep the repentance and shards coming. Low mitigation/ health ally... slot barrier or healing ward. I've even ported out of the dungeon to make food for a lower lvl dps who was getting one-shot all the time b/c his health was too low to survive the scaled boss attacks without it.

I've encountered plenty of other players who do the same. Just yesterday in my run of Banished Cells gold, a dps consulted the tank about his strategy for the Maw, asking are you gonna stand in place or walk him around. He then changed his skill bar to suit the chosen method, adding more ranged skills to his bar.

Moral of the story: Your so called 'super player' is more likely someone who looked up a build online that has worked for him with a very specific group composition and he refuses or does not know how to adapt. Not so super, eh?

Mojmir · April 2016

we usually burn the boss and an add, then hang out at 30% til we have three adds.
same thing in COH with 4 wraiths.it still bugs out and we end up missing the blade pull phase.

failkiwib16_ESO · April 2016

I had a friend who didn't knew about other methods than burning the boss down fast, so when we did that dungeon together once and I asked the group if we were going to burn the boss, he whispered and asked me why I was "treating experinced players like ***". I had to explain that there were other tacticts to deal with that boss lol we even did it with the 10% tactic because the other DD was less confident.

Soleya · April 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Haha, so recognizable. Ive had the same while tanking vet BC for a gold pledge.

The dps wanted to burn the boss and ignore killing the adds which is perfectly viable with decent dps.
Because the dps was rather low I was tanking 7-8 adds by the time they finally killed the boss.

They did complement me on my tanking skills though.

The boss that disappears and spawns the adds is a good indication what tactic you should use.
If you see the twilights spawn for the second time dps is probably too low.

I was with a group once, where the clanfears spawned a 2nd time with the 1st set of clanfears still up. Only reason we got through this boss is I switched to my dps gear and put sword/shield and DW on, and then spammed steel tornado on the adds, then switched back to "tanking".

And on the final boss I was tanking 8 daedroths when the boss was down to 80%. Both DPS were just using WB the whole time. Finally just called it and said it's not possible to beat.

I've run BC probably 50-100 times now. I ran with a group so good, the clanfears never spawned on the one boss, and the final boss died with 3 daedroths up (4th one never spawned). While that was an easy run, it wasn't the most fun. Most fun I've had was with my friends with mediocre dps. Way more satisfaction when we completed it after a few tries. Changed tactics a few times till we figured out what worked best for us.

Xundiin · April 2016

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

You found a stupid super player.

The wisest of us know that you must adapt boss strategies based on the strengths of the group.

This is raid leader 101. If you can't do this, you don't belong in high end content..... period. Adapt and over come.

Kas · April 2016

Svalinn wrote: »

As i said... i leave everyone finding his/her own conclusions ^^

never play with pugs

Tryxus · April 2016

Svalinn wrote: »

We eventually arrived at the first boss and killed it quite easely only to be "rewarded" in group chat with a: "uhmmmm... this took longer then usuale" from our fellow DPS.

I would've kicked him at that point