Are ZoS screwing Vampires up More?

dsalter · April 2016

Yes - Vampires are worse, now.

my only complaint is i need to starve myself to be able to sneak better. i know this sounds odd but doesnt feeding to control your appearance not seem more sneaky?

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

No - I think it works.

dsalter wrote: »

my only complaint is i need to starve myself to be able to sneak better. i know this sounds odd but doesnt feeding to control your appearance not seem more sneaky?

vampires in TES have always worked the opposite as every other source of vampire lore, as such is canon within the TES universe.

besides, think of it this way, the hungrier the vampire is, the more their body changes in consideration of the much needed feeding. So a starving vampires body would change to be a much much better predator than a full and content one.

Well, thats what i always imagined went through the lore creator's minds

Luigi_Vampa · April 2016

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Considering that they nerfed the only hard counters to Vampires, the Fighter's Guild Skill line, I don't particularly see a problem.

You're strictly thinking about it from an obvious PvP point of view. What about the PvE where 85% of the game is fire-based? How does NOT feeding, make sense, for a vampire to gain access to all their passives? Explain that.

You won't like this. Most people don't because it is the opposite of traditional Vampire lore, but Elder Scrolls vampires get stronger when they don't feed. They take more damage from sun (in Oblivion) and depending on the vampire clan get more vampire-ish when they deny their cravings. Feeding makes them more human like and they lose alot of their vampire skills.

Now I'm not saying that is how the game should be designed, but that is the reality of Elder Scrolls Vampire lore.

Ethromelb14_ESO · April 2016

Yes - Vampires are worse, now.

Typhoios wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Considering that they nerfed the only hard counters to Vampires, the Fighter's Guild Skill line, I don't particularly see a problem.

You're strictly thinking about it from an obvious PvP point of view. What about the PvE where 85% of the game is fire-based? How does NOT feeding, make sense, for a vampire to gain access to all their passives? Explain that.

You won't like this. Most people don't because it is the opposite of traditional Vampire lore, but Elder Scrolls vampires get stronger when they don't feed. They take more damage from sun (in Oblivion) and depending on the vampire clan get more vampire-ish when they deny their cravings. Feeding makes them more human like and they lose alot of their vampire skills.

Now I'm not saying that is how the game should be designed, but that is the reality of Elder Scrolls Vampire lore.

Duly noted.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

No - I think it works.

Typhoios wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Considering that they nerfed the only hard counters to Vampires, the Fighter's Guild Skill line, I don't particularly see a problem.

You're strictly thinking about it from an obvious PvP point of view. What about the PvE where 85% of the game is fire-based? How does NOT feeding, make sense, for a vampire to gain access to all their passives? Explain that.

You won't like this. Most people don't because it is the opposite of traditional Vampire lore, but Elder Scrolls vampires get stronger when they don't feed. They take more damage from sun (in Oblivion) and depending on the vampire clan get more vampire-ish when they deny their cravings. Feeding makes them more human like and they lose alot of their vampire skills.

Now I'm not saying that is how the game should be designed, but that is the reality of Elder Scrolls Vampire lore.

ill quote my eariler post if you just skimmed it

"think of it this way, the hungrier the vampire is, the more their body changes in consideration of the much needed feeding. So a starving vampires body would change to be a much much better predator than a full and content one."-me

it makes a weird kind of sense if you just be a bit open minded, the lore creators wanted to make their vampires unique, and that did that with a perfectly logical reasoning, it may not be the same as what people are used to, but thats the way it is, and i for one am fond of this reasoning

Tholian1 · April 2016

dsalter wrote: »

my only complaint is i need to starve myself to be able to sneak better. i know this sounds odd but doesnt feeding to control your appearance not seem more sneaky?

I'm just going to sit back with a big bag of popcorn after this update drops while the vampires of tamriel, that don't go to the forums, discover how slow they move while sneaking.

I just made a new character that isn't a vampire and the slow movement while in stealth is maddening. Especially since I am so accustomed to the speed passive with my vampire character. The difference is huge.

notimetocare · April 2016

No - I think it works.

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Elhanan wrote: »

Unless I have mistaken something, you can now have access to 3 vampire skills with almost no downsides (only downside is +20% smug from FG skills). All the other details just make gameplay more interesting.

Yes, it would seem that way, but do the math as to how many, and for how long you'll be able to use your abilities before reverting back to stage 4. How often as needing to feed during a dungeon posed a problem for many? 75% decrease to health recovery PLUS a 25% fire weakness is way too much, in a game the has fire enemies predominantly. That's all I'm saying. 36 uses of vampire powers before that 6 hour timer doesn't mean crap.

It's like in order to maintain that 6 hour timer, we have to NOT use the vampire powers. That doesn't make sense.

Then I guess it's a good thing you weren't here when it was 50%. And yes the Malog Bal fight was a *** as a vampire back then... you know... before they started nerfing content.

That's the problem with many of the people on here ... You assume you know something about me and you don't know ish. I've been playing the game since vampires had the worst of their bane. Some fool that's been making the vampire experience a debacle needs to sit in front of a camera and specifically breakdown their line of logic regarding the vampire system; but they don't! Know why? Because they know how stupid the current system is and they can't come up with a logical explanation as to why it's the way it is, and have no clue how to make it better without breaking the game.

Fact: There is not one post I have ever seen regarding vampires where a player felt truly powerful playing as one. The vampire system is strictly vanity and the worst version of all ESO canon. I miss you Oblivion.

Vamp magicka DK early patches. Did you miss the 1v100 videos as EMP? The 1v20s for non-emp?
I don't assume to know anything about you, I look at the ignorant things you say and come to an obvious conclusion.
The fact you bring up Oblivion vamp makes me giggle. ESO vamprisim is a different strain from Oblivion and is indeed more powerful as well.

notimetocare · April 2016

No - I think it works.

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

But here, lets be more detailed:
Vampire
Dark Stalker: This passive ability now only functions when you are in Vampire Stage 4.Part of a change to the system, stage 4 is for fighting, stage 1 is for RPers. It has always been that way, it is just now enforced that way.
Drain Essence: This ability and its morphs now tick 3 times over their channel durations, down from 4, but their damage per tick has been increased and they now restore 20% of your missing health per tick to compensate.Same damage, less hits, more healing. This is bad?
Mist Form:
This ability and its morphs now remove previously applied snares and immobilizations, in addition to making you immune to any new ones while active.A buff that costs a bit more? Oh the horror
Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 5%.
Updated the tooltip for this ability and its morphs to indicate it has always disabled your Magicka Recovery while active.
Poison Mist (Mist Form morph):
Renamed this morph to Baleful Mist.
In addition to the changes made to the base ability, this morph now ticks and deals damage every second instead of every 1.5 seconds, causing it to deal damage 1 additional time over its duration.Changed for CP balancing. More magic users are vamp than stam, especially among those using mist.
This morph now deals Magic Damage instead of Poison Damage.
Supernatural Recovery: This passive ability no longer requires a Vampire ability to be slotted, and now only functions when you are in Vampire Stage 2 or higher. Part of a change to the system, stage 4 is for fighting, stage 1 is for RPers. It has always been that way, it is just now enforced that way. Not to mention this is a buff because you no longer need a skill sloted, good for peopel that only used Bats or wanted their two skills on 1 bar.
Undeath: This passive ability now only functions when you are in Vampire Stage 3 or higher.Part of a change to the system, stage 4 is for fighting, stage 1 is for RPers. It has always been that way, it is just now enforced that way.
Vampirism:
Increased the timer to advance each Vampire Stage to 6 hours from 30 minutes, but casting any Vampire ability will advance this timer by 30 minutes. Feeding as a Vampire will continue to lower your Vampire Stage by 1.The whole system is a change that allows RPers to have their stage 1 while making players that want Stage 4 to not lose anything.
Vampire Stage benefits and penalties are now as follows:
Stage 1: 0% Flame Damage taken, 0% Vampire Ability cost reduction, 0% Health Recovery reduction
Stage 2: 15% Flame Damage taken, 7% Vampire Ability cost reduction, 25% Health Recovery reduction
Stage 3: 20% Flame Damage taken, 14% Vampire Ability cost reduction, 50% Health Recovery reduction
Stage 4: 25% Flame Damage taken, 21% Vampire Ability cost reduction, 75% Health Recovery reduction

Well actually stamina users use elusive mist a lot, as an alternative for blocking when out of stamina.

I have never seen any stamina build use mist. Never.

My stam Orc vampire DK uses mist form. I take resources that way. Det up, mist, then wb the remaining guards on the flag.

You just said stam and Det in the same sentence... lol

AOECAPS · April 2016

No - I think it works.

Lol hard counters to vampirism get nerfed still complains lmao

xblackroxe · April 2016

No - I think it works.

notimetocare wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

But here, lets be more detailed:
Vampire
Dark Stalker: This passive ability now only functions when you are in Vampire Stage 4.Part of a change to the system, stage 4 is for fighting, stage 1 is for RPers. It has always been that way, it is just now enforced that way.
Drain Essence: This ability and its morphs now tick 3 times over their channel durations, down from 4, but their damage per tick has been increased and they now restore 20% of your missing health per tick to compensate.Same damage, less hits, more healing. This is bad?
Mist Form:
This ability and its morphs now remove previously applied snares and immobilizations, in addition to making you immune to any new ones while active.A buff that costs a bit more? Oh the horror
Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 5%.
Updated the tooltip for this ability and its morphs to indicate it has always disabled your Magicka Recovery while active.
Poison Mist (Mist Form morph):
Renamed this morph to Baleful Mist.
In addition to the changes made to the base ability, this morph now ticks and deals damage every second instead of every 1.5 seconds, causing it to deal damage 1 additional time over its duration.Changed for CP balancing. More magic users are vamp than stam, especially among those using mist.
This morph now deals Magic Damage instead of Poison Damage.
Supernatural Recovery: This passive ability no longer requires a Vampire ability to be slotted, and now only functions when you are in Vampire Stage 2 or higher. Part of a change to the system, stage 4 is for fighting, stage 1 is for RPers. It has always been that way, it is just now enforced that way. Not to mention this is a buff because you no longer need a skill sloted, good for peopel that only used Bats or wanted their two skills on 1 bar.
Undeath: This passive ability now only functions when you are in Vampire Stage 3 or higher.Part of a change to the system, stage 4 is for fighting, stage 1 is for RPers. It has always been that way, it is just now enforced that way.
Vampirism:
Increased the timer to advance each Vampire Stage to 6 hours from 30 minutes, but casting any Vampire ability will advance this timer by 30 minutes. Feeding as a Vampire will continue to lower your Vampire Stage by 1.The whole system is a change that allows RPers to have their stage 1 while making players that want Stage 4 to not lose anything.
Vampire Stage benefits and penalties are now as follows:
Stage 1: 0% Flame Damage taken, 0% Vampire Ability cost reduction, 0% Health Recovery reduction
Stage 2: 15% Flame Damage taken, 7% Vampire Ability cost reduction, 25% Health Recovery reduction
Stage 3: 20% Flame Damage taken, 14% Vampire Ability cost reduction, 50% Health Recovery reduction
Stage 4: 25% Flame Damage taken, 21% Vampire Ability cost reduction, 75% Health Recovery reduction

Well actually stamina users use elusive mist a lot, as an alternative for blocking when out of stamina.

I have never seen any stamina build use mist. Never.

My stam Orc vampire DK uses mist form. I take resources that way. Det up, mist, then wb the remaining guards on the flag.

You just said stam and Det in the same sentence... lol

Just lol :P

Essiaga · April 2016

delete

RAGUNAnoOne · April 2016

No - I think it works.

They did over-hype the changes worse than argonian balance changes but no one but RPers ever fed anyways it is more of the same it won't affect anyone. but the FG changes are an indirect MAJOR buff to vamps

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

No - I think it works.

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

They did over-hype the changes worse than argonian balance changes but no one but RPers ever fed anyways it is more of the same it won't affect anyone. but the FG changes are an indirect MAJOR buff to vamps

well, at least now vamps can opt out of the fire weakness when they need to, thats a huge difference when concerning some dungeons/delves

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 2016

Yes - Vampires are worse, now.

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Considering that they nerfed the only hard counters to Vampires, the Fighter's Guild Skill line, I don't particularly see a problem.

You're strictly thinking about it from an obvious PvP point of view. What about the PvE where 85% of the game is fire-based? How does NOT feeding, make sense, for a vampire to gain access to all their passives? Explain that.

Considering that you already take 25% extra fire damage on live regardless of your Vampire Stage vs the change that makes that only possible on stage 4 vampire, what exactly is the problem? You don't get any negate being a low level vampire and gain all the powers/weakness at max level Vampire.

In all the previous Elder Scrolls games, Vampires got more powerful the less they feed so as far as ESO goes, it's just sticking to the Lore of ES Vampires laid out by its predecessors.

I have a friend that can feed on just about any enemy NPCs in dungeons. He can even feed on the 2nd boss of WGT as well as the prisoners in the room after fighting Ibomez in ICP so it's not impossible to lower your Vampire Stages in dungeons so your argument there is almost totally moot.

Which Vampire abilities are you even using in Dungeons anyways? Drain is crap as a damage move or a CC move, Mist has very limited uses in dungeons as it offers you virtually nothing apart from a mitigation buffer which shouldn't be largely required as very few adds hit hard enough to justify mitigating 75% of their damage anyways and the enraged Flesh Atronarchs of vICP can still one shot you thru it regardless. Bats is probably the only worthwhile move and even then, there are other Ultimates you can use.

Nothing you have stated seems remotely justified as to why Vampires are screwed.

"In all the previous Elder Scrolls games, Vampires got more powerful the less they feed so as far as ESO goes, it's just sticking to the Lore of ES Vampires laid out by its predecessors."

You mean in Oblivion and Base Vampirism in Skyrim because in Morrowind and Daggerfall we had every intention to believe they got stronger, in Daggerfall you had you kill/Feed everyday or you would lose a lot of health and in Dawnguard the Vampire Lord actually got stronger by Feeding as opposed to getting weaker.