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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Templar Thaumaturge Sweep Bug - Fix coming for Live
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Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »PainfulFAFA wrote: »s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »Radiant Oppression SHOULD NOT count as a DOT. It does damage while the skill is being channeled. It is not a cast once and then apply damage over time. Same with Puncturing Sweeps and Rapid Strikes.
lol so cute
And accurate. These are not DoTs. I don't care what Wrobel says. Poison injection supplies a DoT as does Cleave. The initial hits of these moves shouldn't scale from thaumaturge, and neither should moves like puncturing sweeps, radiant destruction, soul strike, and flurry. This seems like lazy coding, and it needs to be rectified.
but you only get the damage from puncture on the last hit correct?
if it procs skoria its a dot,it sure as hell doesnt proc nierenth0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »PainfulFAFA wrote: »s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »Radiant Oppression SHOULD NOT count as a DOT. It does damage while the skill is being channeled. It is not a cast once and then apply damage over time. Same with Puncturing Sweeps and Rapid Strikes.
lol so cute
And accurate. These are not DoTs. I don't care what Wrobel says. Poison injection supplies a DoT as does Cleave. The initial hits of these moves shouldn't scale from thaumaturge, and neither should moves like puncturing sweeps, radiant destruction, soul strike, and flurry. This seems like lazy coding, and it needs to be rectified.
but you only get the damage from puncture on the last hit correct?
if it procs skoria its a dot,it sure as hell doesnt proc nierenth
I'm not questioning what it procs. Wrobel has classified these moves as DoTs when they shouldn't be. If these moves are under performing then that needs to be addressed rather than categorize them as DoTs in order to pull from two CP passives, because sooner or later that's going to bite them in the butt.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »PainfulFAFA wrote: »s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »Radiant Oppression SHOULD NOT count as a DOT. It does damage while the skill is being channeled. It is not a cast once and then apply damage over time. Same with Puncturing Sweeps and Rapid Strikes.
lol so cute
And accurate. These are not DoTs. I don't care what Wrobel says. Poison injection supplies a DoT as does Cleave. The initial hits of these moves shouldn't scale from thaumaturge, and neither should moves like puncturing sweeps, radiant destruction, soul strike, and flurry. This seems like lazy coding, and it needs to be rectified.
but you only get the damage from puncture on the last hit correct?
if it procs skoria its a dot,it sure as hell doesnt proc nierenth
I'm not questioning what it procs. Wrobel has classified these moves as DoTs when they shouldn't be. If these moves are under performing then that needs to be addressed rather than categorize them as DoTs in order to pull from two CP passives, because sooner or later that's going to bite them in the butt.
According to what are you claiming this assessment to be accurate. The definition of the abbreviation DoT is Damage over Time. Jabs does said damage over time...your own personal feelings are irrelevant since the actual definition of the abbreviation is valid...3 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »PainfulFAFA wrote: »s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »Radiant Oppression SHOULD NOT count as a DOT. It does damage while the skill is being channeled. It is not a cast once and then apply damage over time. Same with Puncturing Sweeps and Rapid Strikes.
lol so cute
And accurate. These are not DoTs. I don't care what Wrobel says. Poison injection supplies a DoT as does Cleave. The initial hits of these moves shouldn't scale from thaumaturge, and neither should moves like puncturing sweeps, radiant destruction, soul strike, and flurry. This seems like lazy coding, and it needs to be rectified.
Really? Now you want them to fix all the lazy coding choices they have in this game? Im not sure any of us have that kind of time.5 -
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Gilliamtherogue✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »PainfulFAFA wrote: »s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »Radiant Oppression SHOULD NOT count as a DOT. It does damage while the skill is being channeled. It is not a cast once and then apply damage over time. Same with Puncturing Sweeps and Rapid Strikes.
lol so cute
And accurate. These are not DoTs. I don't care what Wrobel says. Poison injection supplies a DoT as does Cleave. The initial hits of these moves shouldn't scale from thaumaturge, and neither should moves like puncturing sweeps, radiant destruction, soul strike, and flurry. This seems like lazy coding, and it needs to be rectified.
If you fail to see how an ability that deals damage in INCREMENTS OF TIME is a DoT, then I don't know what else to say. Just because it doesn't fall into the traditional RPG DoT where you place a debuff on a target, does not remove it from being called a DoT. The fact remains, these skills are considered DoT because they do not deal a single, flat source of damage. They force your character into an animation where they deal damage in increments over a period of time (not instant!), and can be interrupted by you or CC, reducing their effectiveness. That is, by literal definition, a DoT.Old member of The Order of Mundus, Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. How far we've come!
Have questions? Send me a message on the forums or my other social media. Seeing people learn is my dream and passion.
Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue7 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gilliamtherogue wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »PainfulFAFA wrote: »s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »Radiant Oppression SHOULD NOT count as a DOT. It does damage while the skill is being channeled. It is not a cast once and then apply damage over time. Same with Puncturing Sweeps and Rapid Strikes.
lol so cute
And accurate. These are not DoTs. I don't care what Wrobel says. Poison injection supplies a DoT as does Cleave. The initial hits of these moves shouldn't scale from thaumaturge, and neither should moves like puncturing sweeps, radiant destruction, soul strike, and flurry. This seems like lazy coding, and it needs to be rectified.
If you fail to see how an ability that deals damage in INCREMENTS OF TIME is a DoT, then I don't know what else to say. Just because it doesn't fall into the traditional RPG DoT where you place a debuff on a target, does not remove it from being called a DoT. The fact remains, these skills are considered DoT because they do not deal a single, flat source of damage. They force your character into an animation where they deal damage in increments over a period of time (not instant!), and can be interrupted by you or CC, reducing their effectiveness. That is, by literal definition, a DoT.
So is me spamming surprise attack. A DoT is a status effect that's applied onto an enemy that passively damages them as you continue combat. Wrobel and you bias Templars are making up definitions just so you can double dip from the champion system. If your moves are under performing, then adjust the damage numbers for the move itself. Don't make up crap.
Because this is what's going to happen. RD and puncturing sweeps/jabs is going to become so grossly overpowered once you can put 100 points into elemental expert and thaumaturge; that ZOS is going to nerf it hard in order to put it in line with other damaging abilities, and you know who's going to suffer? New players. Because without 100 points each passive, it will be a pathetic skill; once they hit you hard with that nerf.
So let's stop being foolish, and properly classify these abilities, and make adjustments where needed.
@Wrobel I hope you read this.Edited by Strider_Roshin on April 27, 2016 1:13AM0 -
Destyran✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »PainfulFAFA wrote: »s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »Radiant Oppression SHOULD NOT count as a DOT. It does damage while the skill is being channeled. It is not a cast once and then apply damage over time. Same with Puncturing Sweeps and Rapid Strikes.
lol so cute
And accurate. These are not DoTs. I don't care what Wrobel says. Poison injection supplies a DoT as does Cleave. The initial hits of these moves shouldn't scale from thaumaturge, and neither should moves like puncturing sweeps, radiant destruction, soul strike, and flurry. This seems like lazy coding, and it needs to be rectified.
But you press one button then your toon does damage over time. Lol1 -
staracino_ESO✭✭✭✭So make the damage numbers for Jabs and RD show up orange. Now they are classified as dots. This is simply a continuation of those megathreads trying to nerf RD. Nothing more.0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »So if a bug that allows you to double dip champion points on abilities that are obviously not DoTs is fixed you're leaving the game? Good thing you're not a fan of the Battle Axe.
it IS a dot
I always looked at a DoT as one attack/strike, cause damage over time. Isn't puncturing sweeps several strikes? That's the only way it would make sense anyway.
You press a button once and it does damage over time. Yes, it's a dot.
And if you press that button and then turn around? No DoT; however, a true DoT would remain.
That is because the cone is the AoE, same if an enemy walks out of scorched earth.0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm lolling at some of the people in this thread, how can you even disagree lmao it's a channeled ability doing damage over a select amount of time. By definition that is a DoT. You can't argue it#MOREORBS3 -
Kattemynte✭✭✭What we really need is a Zenimax produced list of all the skills that are considered DoTs. In the end it does not matter what we think is a DoT but what they interpret it as.0
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Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm lolling at some of the people in this thread, how can you even disagree lmao it's a channeled ability doing damage over a select amount of time. By definition that is a DoT. You can't argue it
By definition Surprise Attack is a DoT. I'm producing damage over a period of time. I guess Surprise Attack needs to scale off of Thurmaturge as well according to this definition. You can't argue it.Edited by Strider_Roshin on April 27, 2016 2:39AM0 -
Gilliamtherogue✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »I'm lolling at some of the people in this thread, how can you even disagree lmao it's a channeled ability doing damage over a select amount of time. By definition that is a DoT. You can't argue it
By definition Surprise Attack is a DoT. I'm producing damage over a period of time. I guess Surprise Attack needs to scale off of Thurmaturge as well according to this definition. You can't argue it.
Old member of The Order of Mundus, Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. How far we've come!
Have questions? Send me a message on the forums or my other social media. Seeing people learn is my dream and passion.
Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue0 -
Gilliamtherogue✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Gilliamtherogue wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »PainfulFAFA wrote: »s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »Radiant Oppression SHOULD NOT count as a DOT. It does damage while the skill is being channeled. It is not a cast once and then apply damage over time. Same with Puncturing Sweeps and Rapid Strikes.
lol so cute
And accurate. These are not DoTs. I don't care what Wrobel says. Poison injection supplies a DoT as does Cleave. The initial hits of these moves shouldn't scale from thaumaturge, and neither should moves like puncturing sweeps, radiant destruction, soul strike, and flurry. This seems like lazy coding, and it needs to be rectified.
If you fail to see how an ability that deals damage in INCREMENTS OF TIME is a DoT, then I don't know what else to say. Just because it doesn't fall into the traditional RPG DoT where you place a debuff on a target, does not remove it from being called a DoT. The fact remains, these skills are considered DoT because they do not deal a single, flat source of damage. They force your character into an animation where they deal damage in increments over a period of time (not instant!), and can be interrupted by you or CC, reducing their effectiveness. That is, by literal definition, a DoT.
So is me spamming surprise attack. A DoT is a status effect that's applied onto an enemy that passively damages them as you continue combat. Wrobel and you bias Templars are making up definitions just so you can double dip from the champion system. If your moves are under performing, then adjust the damage numbers for the move itself. Don't make up crap.
Because this is what's going to happen. RD and puncturing sweeps/jabs is going to become so grossly overpowered once you can put 100 points into elemental expert and thaumaturge; that ZOS is going to nerf it hard in order to put it in line with other damaging abilities, and you know who's going to suffer? New players. Because without 100 points each passive, it will be a pathetic skill; once they hit you hard with that nerf.
So let's stop being foolish, and properly classify these abilities, and make adjustments where needed.
@Wrobel I hope you read this.
I hope he reads it, as well as everyone at the office. So they can see what NOT to listen to when reading stuff on the forums. It's comments like these why some of the most toxic balance changes happen in this game. ZoS gets terrible feed back with warped logic or totally incorrect statements filled with bias and misinformation. I literally cannot believe that there are people in this world that actually think like this.Old member of The Order of Mundus, Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. How far we've come!
Have questions? Send me a message on the forums or my other social media. Seeing people learn is my dream and passion.
Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue3 -
SienneYviete✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »I'm lolling at some of the people in this thread, how can you even disagree lmao it's a channeled ability doing damage over a select amount of time. By definition that is a DoT. You can't argue it
By definition Surprise Attack is a DoT. I'm producing damage over a period of time. I guess Surprise Attack needs to scale off of Thurmaturge as well according to this definition. You can't argue it.
Edited by SienneYviete on April 27, 2016 3:53AMDelta
Valheru's1 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gilliamtherogue wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Gilliamtherogue wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »PainfulFAFA wrote: »s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »Radiant Oppression SHOULD NOT count as a DOT. It does damage while the skill is being channeled. It is not a cast once and then apply damage over time. Same with Puncturing Sweeps and Rapid Strikes.
lol so cute
And accurate. These are not DoTs. I don't care what Wrobel says. Poison injection supplies a DoT as does Cleave. The initial hits of these moves shouldn't scale from thaumaturge, and neither should moves like puncturing sweeps, radiant destruction, soul strike, and flurry. This seems like lazy coding, and it needs to be rectified.
If you fail to see how an ability that deals damage in INCREMENTS OF TIME is a DoT, then I don't know what else to say. Just because it doesn't fall into the traditional RPG DoT where you place a debuff on a target, does not remove it from being called a DoT. The fact remains, these skills are considered DoT because they do not deal a single, flat source of damage. They force your character into an animation where they deal damage in increments over a period of time (not instant!), and can be interrupted by you or CC, reducing their effectiveness. That is, by literal definition, a DoT.
So is me spamming surprise attack. A DoT is a status effect that's applied onto an enemy that passively damages them as you continue combat. Wrobel and you bias Templars are making up definitions just so you can double dip from the champion system. If your moves are under performing, then adjust the damage numbers for the move itself. Don't make up crap.
Because this is what's going to happen. RD and puncturing sweeps/jabs is going to become so grossly overpowered once you can put 100 points into elemental expert and thaumaturge; that ZOS is going to nerf it hard in order to put it in line with other damaging abilities, and you know who's going to suffer? New players. Because without 100 points each passive, it will be a pathetic skill; once they hit you hard with that nerf.
So let's stop being foolish, and properly classify these abilities, and make adjustments where needed.
@Wrobel I hope you read this.
I hope he reads it, as well as everyone at the office. So they can see what NOT to listen to when reading stuff on the forums. It's comments like these why some of the most toxic balance changes happen in this game. ZoS gets terrible feed back with warped logic or totally incorrect statements filled with bias and misinformation. I literally cannot believe that there are people in this world that actually think like this.
Logically? Yes, we are a rare breed.1 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭staracino_ESO wrote: »Surprise attack strikes once per cast...
And a DW heavy attack strikes twice per cast. Still doesn't make it a DoT.0 -
iam117✭✭✭@Strider_Roshin Rare breed/wrong breed. Seems legit.Edited by iam117 on April 27, 2016 4:05AM<Liv3mind><PC/NA - Legion Of The Bloodworks>Snowflake Patrol0 -
staracino_ESO✭✭✭✭I am trying to be patient with you, but you seem dead-set on making a fool of yourself. As people have explained numerous times, a DOT is cast once and deals damage in increments over a set period of time. A non dot is cast once and deals all of its damage at once. DW heavy attack is 2 hits at the same time. Arguing that spamming a single target non-dot attack is a dot because of the space-time continuum is... I do not have words for that.
What exactly are you aiming for here? To me it seems that you want RD/jabs nerfed as your ultimate ulterior goal.2 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭staracino_ESO wrote: »I am trying to be patient with you, but you seem dead-set on making a fool of yourself. As people have explained numerous times, a DOT is cast once and deals damage in increments over a set period of time. A non dot is cast once and deals all of its damage at once. DW heavy attack is 2 hits at the same time. Arguing that spamming a single target non-dot attack is a dot because of the space-time continuum is... I do not have words for that.
What exactly are you aiming for here? To me it seems that you want RD/jabs nerfed as your ultimate ulterior goal.Strider_Roshin wrote: »
RD and puncturing sweeps/jabs are going to become so grossly overpowered once you can put 100 points into elemental expert and thaumaturge; that ZOS is going to nerf it hard in order to put it in line with other damaging abilities, and you know who's going to suffer? New players. Because without 100 points each passive, it will be a pathetic skill; once they hit you hard with that nerf.
0 -
staracino_ESO✭✭✭✭You are saying we should eat an unmitigated nerf now because of the small possibility of a nerf in the future?
I just want to make sure I understand your angle here.3 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭staracino_ESO wrote: »You are saying we should eat an unmitigated nerf now because of the small possibility of a nerf in the future?
I just want to make sure I understand your angle here.
2 reasons:
1) it will become way to powerful once we acquire enough CP to increase the strength of the Templar's main attacks by 50%.
2) Any damage reduction done that doesn't involve re-classifying as a non-DoT will render it useless to those without an adequate amount of CP.
It's about it's current performance but more importantly it's about its future performance.0 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »staracino_ESO wrote: »Surprise attack strikes once per cast...
And a DW heavy attack strikes twice per cast. Still doesn't make it a DoT.
lol he doesn't even know when he is arguing his point or arguing against it....
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staracino_ESO✭✭✭✭My current tooltip for sweeps in Cyro is 1423. That is with 73 points in ele expert and 75 in thaum. At 20.1% and 20.4% respectively, that leaves another 9.5% damage to be gained if I commit 52 more points into these two stars. That would add up to less than 140 more damage to my tooltip. That is less than minuscule. Since I have both of those stars at the point where the diminishing returns really ramp up, I do not plan to put any new CP I get into them anyways. They would be better served in elfborn for more damage, or even blessed or shattering blows, since shields will be the new meta.
Point is, the high damage potential for CP is already here, and it is fine. It is important that we do not let misinformation and bias cloud that.3 -
Destyran✭✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »So if a bug that allows you to double dip champion points on abilities that are obviously not DoTs is fixed you're leaving the game? Good thing you're not a fan of the Battle Axe.
it IS a dot
I always looked at a DoT as one attack/strike, cause damage over time. Isn't puncturing sweeps several strikes? That's the only way it would make sense anyway.
You press a button once and it does damage over time. Yes, it's a dot.
And if you press that button and then turn around? No DoT; however, a true DoT would remain.
That is because the cone is the AoE, same if an enemy walks out of scorched earth.
Ok ill take one instant jab that does 24k thanks4 -
staracino_ESO✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »So if a bug that allows you to double dip champion points on abilities that are obviously not DoTs is fixed you're leaving the game? Good thing you're not a fan of the Battle Axe.
it IS a dot
I always looked at a DoT as one attack/strike, cause damage over time. Isn't puncturing sweeps several strikes? That's the only way it would make sense anyway.
You press a button once and it does damage over time. Yes, it's a dot.
And if you press that button and then turn around? No DoT; however, a true DoT would remain.
That is because the cone is the AoE, same if an enemy walks out of scorched earth.
Ok ill take one instant jab that does 24k thanks
Aedric Backhand6 -
Justice31st✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes this is a bug, we're working on a fix now. Thaumaturge should be increasing the damage of Puncturing Strikes and its morphs.
Well that is a relief. Thank you.Edited by Justice31st on April 27, 2016 5:23AM"The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."0 -
Justice31st✭✭✭✭✭
✭
probably not, nothing to really ragequit over unless a change like this goes intendedBfish22090 wrote: »
templars are in a good spot im happy
Thanks for investigation work. I couldn't handle another Templar nerf lol."The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you."0