Crating Bag Exclusivity is Unfair

clayandaudrey_ESO · April 2016

Johngo0036 wrote: »

stop crying about it and sub

Enough crying on both sides. The crying should just stop period.

Bandit1215 · April 2016

You do realize they are a company and want to make money, correct?? You don't NEED to buy it if you don't want to considering you can already increase your inventory and bank space.

Wanderinlost · April 2016

ESO is not a subscription game. It stopped being that when it became Tamriel Unlimited. To lock a feature behind a sub now is wrong. This is not just a perk it is a feature that has been long requested, highly desired and very useful feature. It would literally free up 300+ slots for me and pretty much everyone.

People throughout this thread have repeatedly claimed that if it was available on the crown store it would devalue the perk. It would not, as you still get the bag without having to pay for it. They say that they do not get enough with ESO+, but you get a crown stipend to spend on whatever premium items you want, which everyone else has to pay for outright. The amount of crowns you get with ESO+ offsets the amount you are paying for the premium subscription. They claim to deserve it becasue they pay "more" and are therefore more loyal and then accuse everyone else of being entitled and thinking we are owed something. This is not true we merely wish to pay a fair and reasonably priced amount like we have every right to expect from a buy to play game which has been marketed and continues to be marketed as a game with two modes of payment and "NO SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED".

Lets also look at this. 1 year subscription= 18,000 credits at a price of less than $150.

3x 5500= 16,500 crowns= $150

ESO+ does not need to buy any DLC, buy the crafting bag and gets 4 different 10% boosters.

This entire thing about ESO+ paying more, deserving more is bull. Where do any of you get off thinking that denying everyone else the chance to even buy a feature you are getting handed to you is fair, reasonable or a good thing for the player base? We are not asking for a free feature, you are. You are getting it for free. If you were really such noble defenders and supporters of ESO you would be asking to pay for it in the store instead of getting it included in your membership. Although instead of showing solidarity you engage in class elitism, intent on degrading the experience of your fellow players for nothing more than personal satisfaction and projected corporate greed.

CaptainBeerDude · April 2016

tonemd wrote: »

Long thread but I'm just going to suggest the DCUO model. Basically when you spend the equivalent of a months sub or more, you get the sub perk for 30 days. Any extra that you put in does not roll over to the next 30 days..

IIRC they also have extra equipment slots for subs and limited (2000) cash balance for non subs.
How would that be better?

Kayira · April 2016

Wanderinlost wrote: »

ESO is not a subscription game. It stopped being that when it became Tamriel Unlimited. To lock a feature behind a sub now is wrong. This is not just a perk it is a feature that has been long requested, highly desired and very useful feature. It would literally free up 300+ slots for me and pretty much everyone.

"NO SUBSCRIPTION REQUIRED".

We are not asking for a free feature, you are. You are getting it for free.

You are making that bag out like it is game breaking. Seriously get a grip it is just a bag. Yes it is nice to have it but it is not the end of the world or the game not to have it. Hence there is no subscription required this bag does not stop your progression in teh game nor does it give you more damage or any other advantages other that you have an empty bank and inventory.

Also interesting that you think that someone who subs isn't paying. Sub players are paying 15 dollars a month for it. Giving them something in return other than 1500 crowns can barely be called asking something for free.

But hey if you think you cannot live without that bag that doesn't exist yet and you are clearly coping without it then either rage quit over a bag or sub.

Seriously everyone calm down it is just a simple bag....

ADarklore · April 2016

Well hey, they are adding the ability to buy FOUR more character slots... so there are four more inventory mules for B2P players, that should help with their inventory management. ;p

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · April 2016

The 30 sec WW form is FAR MORE unfair.

Yet, it is what it is, sadly.

Wanderinlost · April 2016

Kayira wrote: »

You are making that bag out like it is game breaking. Seriously get a grip it is just a bag. Yes it is nice to have it but it is not the end of the world or the game not to have it. Hence there is no subscription required this bag does not stop your progression in teh game nor does it give you more damage or any other advantages other that you have an empty bank and inventory.

Also interesting that you think that someone who subs isn't paying. Sub players are paying 15 dollars a month for it. Giving them something in return other than 1500 crowns can barely be called asking something for free.

But hey if you think you cannot live without that bag that doesn't exist yet and you are clearly coping without it then either rage quit over a bag or sub.

Seriously everyone calm down it is just a simple bag....

Actually I have played this game probably about 1/10 of what I would have if this feature had been finished 2 years ago. It is also not a small feature. 300+ freed up inventory slots. It does stop my progression, usually every 20 minutes, perhaps longer if I purge half my materials.

Now I am not claiming they are paying nothing but they are getting something major already. $15 sub is $15 crown pack and if you are subbed longer then you are actually getting a $15 crown pack every month for more like $11. That is not small and a major offset to the cost. So in a way they are asking for a free feature on top of already very generous offering. Although I do not have a problem with that as I have subbed before and I still see the value of a subscription becasue of that. If you are buying crowns it is in some cases worth it to subscribe. But it is optional and a preference that is not something anyone should ever feel compelled to do for a single feature. All features are suppose to be available to all, regardless of whether you make a one time payment or subscribe to premium service, that is the premise they have continue to sell the game on.

Duiwel · April 2016

Game is not pay to win... ( we won't make active skills with DLC's ).

Gives crafting bags to subs...

I am a sub btw.

I think we should get active skills too.

if you want to lose the advantage support the damn game!

babylon · April 2016

Wanderinlost wrote: »

Now I am not claiming they are paying nothing but they are getting something major already. $15 sub is $15 crown pack and if you are subbed longer then you are actually getting a $15 crown pack every month for more like $11. That is not small and a major offset to the cost. So in a way they are asking for a free feature on top of already very generous offering.

If you think subbing is so awesome already why aren't you subbed?

This whole thread is clearly an attempt to get something made free or really cheap, for people who barely pay to play this game as it is.

clayandaudrey_ESO · April 2016

Duiwel wrote: »

Game is not pay to win... ( we won't make active skills with DLC's ).

Gives crafting bags to subs...

I am a sub btw.

I think we should get active skills too.

if you want to lose the advantage support the damn game!

Agree with the first statement.

Not sure if I agree with the giving the bags to subs.

Same as you with the third.

Fourth statement is just outright lunacy.

Why resort to cussing? Plus supporting the game loses an advantage. This confuses me

Elsonso · April 2016

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

And also, to everyone saying they would pay $50 for a crafting bag, this total is too small for this item. The minimum outright purchase cost would be (monthly sub fee)x(months in a year).

Yeah, this bag is way more OP than I anticipated. An account wide crafting bank of unlimited size? Holy ****! My 240 space bank now has about 24 things in it. I don't even know what I am going to use that space for. (I will figure it out)

This is unlimited bank space for crafting, no limitations, and it is worth a whole lot more than 5000 Crowns. A whole lot more. Start adding zeros.

Kayira wrote: »

You are making that bag out like it is game breaking. Seriously get a grip it is just a bag. Yes it is nice to have it but it is not the end of the world or the game not to have it. Hence there is no subscription required this bag does not stop your progression in teh game nor does it give you more damage or any other advantages other that you have an empty bank and inventory.

I agree in principle, and this bag is not game breaking, and it is not P2W, either. However, it is definitely game changing.

The only way that this is P2W is if the game being played is "who has the most crafting materials". Then, yeah, this is P2W because it almost guarantees a win.

Still, I find myself in disbelief that ZOS made this bag so good. I have to think they knew what they were doing, but part of me says they jumped into the PTS pool with a splash and the bag we see today may not be the same bag we get when this is released.

I will say that this definitely makes it worth while to sub.

idk · April 2016

JD2013 wrote: »

The only real way for ZOS to solve the QQ here would be for them to sell 100 slot (and only 100 slot) bags on the crown store for either all professions OR 100 slot bags for woodworking, clothier, blacksmithing, etc etc.

This bag we are getting now is a perk of subscribing and should stay just that.

There is another way and that's to ignore those who are complaining because they'd don't get a bag. Best solution IMO.

It's absolute entitlement for these people to claim the crafting bag for subs only is unfair.

It's a choice and it's within Zos' rights to make this a sub exclusive just as its yiur right to sub or not sub.

It's childish to qq about this. Unfair to the rest of the community to qq about this.

The BEST source of income for this game is from subs. They know must of this month's subs will be paying for next month also. Predictable. We should get this and non-subs shouldn't.

Wanderinlost · April 2016

babylon wrote: »

If you think subbing is so awesome already why aren't you subbed?

This whole thread is clearly an attempt to get something made free or really cheap, for people who barely pay to play this game as it is.

You know what I thought was awesome, was a game with a modern and highly flexible system of monetization, with a generous membership offer. I have even stated this on various forums over the past year. Although as soon as this launches that game will no longer exist, as it will restrict a major feature and remove flexibility in favor of exclusivity.

As for your last comment not once have I even suggested this feature be free or cheap only reasonably priced. Buying this feature would be another good reason for all us non subs to buy something significant, yet apparently only those who won't be paying anything more than they already are deserve to get this feature just becasue they think themselves more deserving and loyal than anyone else.

rotaugen454 · April 2016

The bag is as P2W as the upcoming senche mount. If they make the bag purchasable in the crown store, I'll probably buy a ton of crowns during the next sale, buy all the DLC and the bag, and cancel my sub.

Kayira · April 2016

rotaugen454 wrote: »

The bag is as P2W as the upcoming senche mount. If they make the bag purchasable in the crown store, I'll probably buy a ton of crowns during the next sale, buy all the DLC and the bag, and cancel my sub.

Exactly what I was saying before. Why sub if you get everything without. They have to give subs an incentive.

babylon · April 2016

rotaugen454 wrote: »

The bag is as P2W as the upcoming senche mount. If they make the bag purchasable in the crown store, I'll probably buy a ton of crowns during the next sale, buy all the DLC and the bag, and cancel my sub.

Exactly, for most people the response would be "what would be the point in subbing if we can get everything for a one-off price way cheaper than subbing?". And there goes all of the subs forever...with no more or very little money coming in each month as everyone already has exactly everything they "need" to play the game.

SorataArisugawa · April 2016

Wanderinlost wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

If you think subbing is so awesome already why aren't you subbed?

This whole thread is clearly an attempt to get something made free or really cheap, for people who barely pay to play this game as it is.

[...]

As for your last comment not once have I even suggested this feature be free or cheap only reasonably priced. Buying this feature would be another good reason for all us non subs to buy something significant, yet apparently only those who won't be paying anything more than they already are deserve to get this feature just becasue they think themselves more deserving and loyal than anyone else.

Ohh yeah I think you should buy this feature as every other as well. You could buy it for an month or something and after this, it should be gone. That would be fine for me. Every month you have to pay a crown fee for this bank. Are you still interested?

Grayphilosophy · April 2016

Reading through these replies, many of the (what I assume to be) subscribers seem happy about getting a crafting bag, while the (what I assume to be) non-subscribers aren't very happy to not be able to get one.

I see subscribers arguing that it's a good addition, or perk, because the current subscribtion bonuses aren't that spectacular. And that the non-subscribers should not complain.

Without calling anyone out, there are even some replies saying that non-subscribers just want everything for free, and that subscribers at least pay to support the game...

I did some math, I could be wrong, but I still did some math.

Currently, if you stay subbed using the lowest value model (30 days sub for $15), you gain access to approximately $88 or 9.720 Crowns worth of content/bonuses (using the max value $50, 5500 Crown pack as comparison, about 110 Crowns per dollar).

Including:
- all the DLC's (with possibly more to come)
- exp bonus
- monthly crowns to spend

Not including
- crafting, trait research and gold boost

Compared to not being subbed and having purchased no crowns or DLC's separately.

If we don't include the DLC's in this, you still gain access to ~$20 or 2.220 crowns worth of bonuses every month, not including the crafting, trait research and gold boosts.

In conclusion: Subscribers and non-subscribers are incomparable. Saying ESO+ doesn't have it's advantages is very incorrect. You'd have to purchase a $50 crown pack every ~2,4 months to get the same value as the lowest value subscribtion model, and you still wouldn't be able to get a crafting bag.

Just give us the damn option to purchase a crafting bag in the crown store. Even a lesser crafting bag would do.

CaptainBeerDude · April 2016

Wanderinlost wrote: »

Lets also look at this. 1 year subscription= 18,000 credits at a price of less than $150.

3x 5500= 16,500 crowns= $150

ESO+ does not need to buy any DLC, buy the crafting bag and gets 4 different 10% boosters.

I thought ESO+ was $15 a month.
That would be
15*12=180
180>150
Your maths is flawed.

EDIT

Also, many people buying crowns get them at the sale that happens around the same time they drop the DLC. So they spend waaaaay less than $150

Mirelurk · April 2016

I was considering dropping my sub ... but I'm likely to keep it now.

Finally, some love for those who sub.

Thanks ZOS.

Buffler · April 2016

Grayphilosophy wrote: »

Reading through these replies, many of the (what I assume to be) subscribers seem happy about getting a crafting bag, while the (what I assume to be) non-subscribers aren't very happy to not be able to get one.

I see subscribers arguing that it's a good addition, or perk, because the current subscribtion bonuses aren't that spectacular. And that the non-subscribers should not complain.

Without calling anyone out, there are even some replies saying that non-subscribers just want everything for free, and that subscribers at least pay to support the game...

I did some math, I could be wrong, but I still did some math.

Currently, if you stay subbed using the lowest value model (30 days sub for $15), you gain access to approximately $88 or 9.720 Crowns worth of content/bonuses (using the max value $50, 5500 Crown pack as comparison, about 110 Crowns per dollar).

Including:
- all the DLC's (with possibly more to come)
- exp bonus
- monthly crowns to spend

Not including
- crafting, trait research and gold boost

Compared to not being subbed and having purchased no crowns or DLC's separately.

If we don't include the DLC's in this, you still gain access to ~$20 or 2.220 crowns worth of bonuses every month, not including the crafting, trait research and gold boosts.

In conclusion: Subscribers and non-subscribers are incomparable. Saying ESO+ doesn't have it's advantages is very incorrect. You'd have to purchase a $50 crown pack every ~2,4 months to get the same value as the lowest value subscribtion model, and you still wouldn't be able to get a crafting bag.

Just give us the damn option to purchase a crafting bag in the crown store. Even a lesser crafting bag would do.

I have said this a million times.

A) every subber I know also buys crowns every month near enough

B.) if we stop subbing we cant accessany of the dlc's we have to go and buy them.

C) wow, 10% bonus.....on max level characters is a really worthwhile perk

Inarre · April 2016

Wanderinlost wrote: »

So purchasing the game, subbing for years, buying DLC, spending hundreds on crowns is not enough? Just because you are ESO+ now does not make you in anyway special. It doesn't mean many others have not paid and continue to pay though crowns or make them less of a customer.

Then there are those who purchase every dlc, buy crowns AND sub...

Zyle · April 2016

Something tells me a lot of these posts are misplaced anger at ZOS for ESO+ perks being so crap. Let's not take it out on the players who decided to not sub. I won't sub again until the game is stable. I still have yet to read a valid reason as to why ZOS can't offer them for sale or at least a less capacity version.

Tommy1979AtWar · April 2016

I don't understand why they didn't just increase the bank space allowance in order to accommodate the ever increasing mat list like everyone asked for, it would have been far simpler.

Gidorick · April 2016

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

I don't understand why they didn't just increase the bank space allowance in order to accommodate the ever increasing mat list like everyone asked for, it would have been far simpler.

Because... money!

And quite possibly a social experiment.

Naff · April 2016

I AM a subscriber and I'm happy to see a perk exclusive to subscribers. I choose to support the game with my subscription, and I'm glad to see ZOS providing another subscriber perk. Maybe I'm old school, but I've never minded paying a subscription for an MMO, (or any service for that matter), that I enjoyed and put a lot of hours into. And subscriber perks are just icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned.

Grayphilosophy · April 2016

Buffler wrote: »

I have said this a million times.

A) every subber I know also buys crowns every month near enough

B.) if we stop subbing we cant accessany of the dlc's we have to go and buy them.

C) wow, 10% bonus.....on max level characters is a really worthwhile perk

A.) Why would you do that when you get free crowns? If not only to pay for convenience, in which case it's your own decision entirely

B.) If I don't buy crowns I can't access the DLC's either, you're just getting access on top of the monthly crowns

C.) I'm sure you can have multiple characters. Not to mention the other bonuses that already aren't available to non-subscribers.

I still don't see what the problem is in letting us buy a feature instead of renting it. Like the DLC's

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · April 2016

Grayphilosophy wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

I have said this a million times.

A) every subber I know also buys crowns every month near enough

B.) if we stop subbing we cant accessany of the dlc's we have to go and buy them.

C) wow, 10% bonus.....on max level characters is a really worthwhile perk

A.) Why would you do that when you get free crowns? If not only to pay for convenience, in which case it's your own decision entirely

B.) If I don't buy crowns I can't access the DLC's either, you're just getting access on top of the monthly crowns

C.) I'm sure you can have multiple characters. Not to mention the other bonuses that already aren't available to non-subscribers.

I still don't see what the problem is in letting us buy a feature instead of renting it. Like the DLC's

Renting them would be a better compromise

CaptainBeerDude · April 2016

Grayphilosophy wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

I have said this a million times.

A) every subber I know also buys crowns every month near enough

B.) if we stop subbing we cant accessany of the dlc's we have to go and buy them.

C) wow, 10% bonus.....on max level characters is a really worthwhile perk

A.) Why would you do that when you get free crowns? If not only to pay for convenience, in which case it's your own decision entirely

B.) If I don't buy crowns I can't access the DLC's either, you're just getting access on top of the monthly crowns

C.) I'm sure you can have multiple characters. Not to mention the other bonuses that already aren't available to non-subscribers.

I still don't see what the problem is in letting us buy a feature instead of renting it. Like the DLC's

Because it is a rental only item. Each alternative method they give for accessing it devalues it for its target market. It isn't game breaking. It isn't going to unbalance anything. It just means that people who choose to sub get a little more convenience. It may even get me stop using a couple of bank alts.