So Archery tho...

UltimaJoe777 · April 2016

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Read the Patch Notes, and I love the changes so far.... heavy armor tanks got buffed, vamps got buffed, FG etc. But archery got very little buffs.

Poison injectiom got a 12% increase, that's good.
Draining shot got a heal after its use (although Idk how it works)

And that's it *sigh* I guess it's safe to say that archers are in the minority in this game I guess not alot of people try to main hand a bow in this game hence the small buffs each update.

I guess my favorite play style will be left in the dust.....

As a matter of fact that isn't it. Scorched Earth has changed into a physical damage attack. See the quote below:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Renamed this morph to Endless Hail.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the duration of the arrow volley to 10 seconds, reduces the cost, and deals Physical Damage instead of Flame Damage.

Personally though I liked it better as Scorched Earth...

Still not enough to make bow a main weapon.

Yep, and no mattet how many threads I or others make about bow, the majority will say "it's fine" I just really want to be an Archer....

So be one. Only one stopping you is yourself and your belief that Bows are inferior.

You @UltimaJoe777 are a prime example of what I mean, I obviously use Bow, but when I got duel wield I have an Easier time playing, and yes bow is inferior how many people are running main hand bow in solo PVP? vMSA? No one so I don't BELIEVE they are "inferior" they are. That's why every stam build uses bow as a support/buff bar. I bet you are just another Fotm Meta player.

@ADarklore Omg this statment. -___- I'm aware that bow and staffs weapon dmg is low and it should be, but that is not the problem. It'sIt's the bow skills and the game mechanics that makes it suck, plus magic builds can play at range and bypass the range penalty (duel wield). Jeez it's like every stam build MUST play Melee or Die! No one is trying to make bow op I just want archers to be an actual role like on other MMO fantasy games.

Destro Staff has a great aoe (pulsar) a quick instant dps skill (crushing shock) ground dot(wall of elements) a debuff etc.

Let's look at the bow
Dot: poison arrow
Aoe: missing
Ground Dot: Volley
Instan cast dps: missing
Utility skill: missing

I am no meta at all, and my archer works a bow just fine by the way and uses Dual Wield to back him up as need be. Despite this I in no way feel a bow is inferior so yes it is a belief. The fact you know of no one that runs it as a main weapon doesn't make it anything else. Furthermore the meta is not absolute. I would also advise you get your facts straight before trying to insult someone, because I play no other MMO beyond ESO and ESO is the ONLY console MMO I have played and ever will play.

Well I have played other MMOs and let me tell ya. Archery is amazing when, I come to this game its absolutely sucks, Since you've never played other fantesy MMO's your argument is already Invalid you've only experienced this game.

Again I don't beleive YOU believe Archery is fine because you dont even use a bow, you never answers my previous questions and haven't provided me any evidence that Its a belief so that's strike 2.

If you wouldn've come in hete with your snotty toxic attitude I would've treated you with more respect. This is a thread duscussing the state of archery if you wish yo disagree BE CONSTRUCTIVE next time.

1. I said I never played another MMO on consoles. I have played many an old-school MMO on PC. Runescape was my first, way back in its classic beta days.

2. I don't use a bow? You're not reading my posts then.

3. You're the one being hateful and frankly I don't find either of us being toxic. As for your "initial question" if you mean the one about how many others run bows then I did answer it. Refer to my previous post stating it doesn't matter.

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

At this point I give up on Archery in this game. We are in the minory so the devs don't care, and when you try to post out your ideas this toxic community attacks you right away... -___-

What ideas and what attacks? You're the one getting all defensive for no reason.

Anything else I can clear up for you?

I think you need to calm down sir,

1.) That's good Runescape was a great MMO where ALL COMBAT roles are viable not just Mages and Warriors if I wanted to be an archer pure I could no Problem but in this game you can't I could type up all the problems bow has now but then this post would be a book.

2.) Yeah you probably don't you claim you maybe as a buff weapon like all other builds? I mean what are you going to do against mobs that are CC immune(giants etc.) Snipe them with a slow projectile as they get close to you? lol

3.) I'm not Toxic YOU ARE, i've seen you in other threads with your snotty know it all attitude and its annoying just like others in this community. You once again Ignored my question saying "it doesn't matter" yet it does matter and since you can't answer that question you argument is automatically invalid.

Idk what you problem is with me but its getting out of hand now, you give no constuctive criticism at all and think you are a know it all.

You're better than this Joe...

What makes you think I'm not calm? lol

Any good Archer has a close combat back-up. I mean look at Legolas. If I wanted to stay on Bow and stay distant though then I can run a Scatter Shot morph. To relieve any confusion yes my archer is an archer he uses the Bow as a primary offense and swaps to Dual Wield only if he needs to. I am the type to get up on a high place and Snipe though But Bombard and Volley are a great combo when rooting can be done, especially for mob groups. Venom Arrow is a distant casting interrupter which isn't bad in my book. If you don't agree with how the Skill Line is set up though why not give input on just a few things you would like to see, so as not to create a "book" on it lol

I never said you were toxic, I said NEITHER of us appears toxic here. I also in no way give off a "snotty know-it-all attitude" and if it appears so I apologize but that usually circulates from what people expect of others here. Common misconception basically. And indeed it doesn't matter what others do in the long run, only what you do, unless you wish to copy their build. I mean if the entire meta said repeatedly jumping off keep walls was the best way to go would you do it too? Raise your opinions based on yourself man, not statistics. Sometimes things may surprise you.

I have no problem with you, you're the one that's been attacking me. I have also not been criticizing at all, just suggesting and voicing opinions. In a case like this facts are pretty much irrelevant. Some say Bow is bad, some say it's good, so it really does all boil down to belief. I also never claim to be a know-it-all but I do like to pass on what knowledge I do have as that is what knowledge is for: passing on as well as using. So take a deep breath, relax, and take it easy. None of our discussion was ever intended as hostile, even in the posts where I defended myself. You merely perceived it as so.

Yep, it seems so.... you are right though, archers should( and usually have a back up melee weapon) however stamina melee builds overshadow stam ranged stamina builds which makes sense since they are at a higher risk, but my main problem with the bow is how the skills were designed.

I replied to someone earlier in this thread about my preceived problems with the bow but hopefully that can shine light on my frustration with the bow skill line. I've never playes a fantasy game where there aren't pure bow builds and it saddened me.

I for one never meant and hostility towards you or anyone but usually when topics like these come by most people attack me. I made a thread Titled "Redesign the Bow Skill line" and the majority of post there were "You need to L2P bow is fine" without any explanation although I explain why I believe bow is slightly lacking.

But then again I really don't expect changes Since only a fraction of the player base actually cares about archery soo yeah.....

It's cool no hard feelings or anything. As for games where Archers actually mattered to the meta I played one. Was called Redstone by LogicKorea if I remember their name right. Good game, but the previous owner of the NA servers *** up big time. Archers were one of the best DPS classes in that game, out of about 20. Quite popular as a result, but classes in that game had set genders and archers were female.

lathbury · April 2016

well I use a bow in pve and in pvp as my main weapon and I love these changes stam dk utilising a maelstrom bow is gonna be off the charts for PVE dps.

Tankqull · April 2016

Bow is fine dmg and utility wise, its problem is its sustain in bossfights/sieges(every thing that lasts longer than a few sec. while continously firing) as it is horribly stamina expensive.

my propose would be that as it unlike other weapon types do not have an autorelease on heavy attacks - it would be predestined for a system that grants stamina back depending on the % of the arrow release in comparison to a full heavy attack. e.g. weaving aimed + heavy attack => so for perfect animation canceling you are at ~80% of a full charged heavy attack wich would mean ~80% stamina refill of a full charged heavy attack (+/- a 10-20% balancing factor) wich would significantly increase the bows durability and kiting ability( in combination with rolldogde speed + sprinting thx to no excessive stamina consumption...)

stevepdodson_ESO888 · April 2016

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Read the Patch Notes, and I love the changes so far.... heavy armor tanks got buffed, vamps got buffed, FG etc. But archery got very little buffs.

Poison injectiom got a 12% increase, that's good.
Draining shot got a heal after its use (although Idk how it works)

And that's it *sigh* I guess it's safe to say that archers are in the minority in this game I guess not alot of people try to main hand a bow in this game hence the small buffs each update.

I guess my favorite play style will be left in the dust.....

If the heal from Draining Shot can apply if you instantly use this skill a second time then it will be very useful as a quick self-heal similar to Burning Embers for DK's

OrphanHelgen · April 2016

Agree, scorchet earth and poison injection, are bow usually on back bar, so bow still not good as main dps, altough I still snipe in AA last boss, but thats because people havent learned how to NOT MOVE! sry morning rage

Mr.Hmm · April 2016

I like using the Bow as the main weapon on my NB with Dual Swords/Daggers as secondary weapons.

BomblePants · April 2016

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

BomblePants wrote: »

Ahem.... I main a bow with no problems at all....
My main bar reads: refreshing shadows, mark target, poison arrow, bombard and scorched earth.... (hides)...

How effective is that? Can you solo with it? Or do you run in a group? What happens when you fight a mob/player that doesn't stand in the AoE and is immune to roots?

Very... it's awesome! I can absolutely solo with it. I have DW as my back up on one char (Dunmer) and TH on my other (Kajjit) .... The passives are essential and as you mention, when you do run in a group it is also excellent for back up (but I mostly solo)

ub17_ESO · April 2016

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Read the Patch Notes, and I love the changes so far.... heavy armor tanks got buffed, vamps got buffed, FG etc. But archery got very little buffs.

Poison injectiom got a 12% increase, that's good.
Draining shot got a heal after its use (although Idk how it works)

And that's it *sigh* I guess it's safe to say that archers are in the minority in this game I guess not alot of people try to main hand a bow in this game hence the small buffs each update.

I guess my favorite play style will be left in the dust.....

As a matter of fact that isn't it. Scorched Earth has changed into a physical damage attack. See the quote below:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Renamed this morph to Endless Hail.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the duration of the arrow volley to 10 seconds, reduces the cost, and deals Physical Damage instead of Flame Damage.

Personally though I liked it better as Scorched Earth...

Still not enough to make bow a main weapon.

Yep, and no mattet how many threads I or others make about bow, the majority will say "it's fine" I just really want to be an Archer....

So be one. Only one stopping you is yourself and your belief that Bows are inferior.

You @UltimaJoe777 are a prime example of what I mean, I obviously use Bow, but when I go duel wield I have an Easier time playing, and yes bow is inferior how many people are running main hand bow in solo PVP? vMSA? No one so I don't BELIEVE they are "inferior" they are. That's why every stam build uses bow as a support/buff bar. I bet you are just another Fotm Meta player.

@ADarklore Omg this statment. -___- I'm aware that bow and staffs weapon dmg is low and it should be, but that is not the problem. It'sIt's the bow skills and the game mechanics that makes it suck, plus magic builds can play at range and bypass the range penalty (duel wield). Jeez it's like every stam build MUST play Melee or Die! No one is trying to make bow op I just want archers to be an actual role like in other MMO fantasy games.

Destro Staff has a great aoe (pulsar) a quick instant dps skill (crushing shock) ground dot(wall of elements) a debuff etc.

Let's look at the bow
Dot: poison arrow
Aoe: missing
Ground Dot: Volley
Instan cast dps: missing
Utility skill: missing

I dont main hand bow bc I choose not to, I dont like the play style, I prefer melee. However, bow has good flexibility and a good assortment of tools.

Dot/execute: lethal injection 15K tooltip & i'm not geared for bow and wearing TBS so my wpn dmg is a bit low. Not to mention the 12% bonus for range isnt factored in or the additional dmg vs low health tgts.

AOE: bombard tooltip of 6.5k Not bad for conal AOE instant cast that roots. IDK how hard the DoT morph hits

AOE DoT: arrow barrage tooltip of 22.9K not factoring the increased dmg from malestrom bow. Pretty strong!!

Instant cast: you win...scatter shot doesnt hit very hard and the range is fickle, 6K but has a knockback, but neither does the 2H line unless you count the execute but thats not really right bc the damage is poor until inside execute range

Single tgt spam: lethal arrow tooltip of 14.7 is better damage than WB, no knockback, but debuffs. again not taking into account the 12% bonus for being at range.

Utility: there is a good amount here: movement speed after a dodgeroll, 12% bonus for attacking at range where you want to be out of harms way, 1k extra crit rating for using bow, instant cast AOE root that does a decent amount of dmg, the other morph of lethal arrow is an interrupt to channeling tgts, item set that cause all bow attacks to snare, the anti-gap closer. DB will add a heal to the bow line...IDK what I'm missing here, but bow can be played with a great effectiveness. The AOE is fairly disgusting if you add caltrops to the party.

Now i have a hair to run through vMA with a Bow on main bar. I dont imagine it will be more difficult than playing magic DK

I dont see how the destruction staff line is extremely overpowered in comparison. The tooltips are fairly comparable.

My thoughts anyway...

colec74 · April 2016

I played another well known MMO for a little over a decade, and almost always had a hunter. It hindered the way I thought about combat when I came into the game initially. When I realized I don't have to have a "main" weapon. I use a bow and dual wield, and they complement each other well. If I want to stay away from a melee combatant I use the bow as much as possible. I do a pretty good job of using the terrain to kite them, but it does take skill. DoT them and autoattack when I can. Scatter shot is a nice utility skill that gets them off of you, and there are also other ranged attacks from other skill lines that work well at a distance. Some melee skills can be upgraded to ranged. Also, I can keep a melee stun on my bar to regain distance if needed. I personally like the way it's set up. It takes more skill to use, and isn't just an instant win like on other MMOs.

Anti_Virus · April 2016

Tankqull wrote: »

Bow is fine dmg and utility wise, its problem is its sustain in bossfights/sieges(every thing that lasts longer than a few sec. while continously firing) as it is horribly stamina expensive.

my propose would be that as it unlike other weapon types do not have an autorelease on heavy attacks - it would be predestined for a system that grants stamina back depending on the % of the arrow release in comparison to a full heavy attack. e.g. weaving aimed + heavy attack => so for perfect animation canceling you are at ~80% of a full charged heavy attack wich would mean ~80% stamina refill of a full charged heavy attack (+/- a 10-20% balancing factor) wich would significantly increase the bows durability and kiting ability( in combination with rolldogde speed + sprinting thx to no excessive stamina consumption...)

This.

I fully acknowledge that bow is good, in fact im greatful for the new hawk eye passive and champion point cha ges that really buff the bow, but its not enough to be a main dps weapon.

It seems to be only for ganking/support outside if that it's terrible I sometimes look at Dragons Dogma and Black Deserts Archer class and wonder Why can't archers be like that in this game too.

dimensional · April 2016

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Read the Patch Notes, and I love the changes so far.... heavy armor tanks got buffed, vamps got buffed, FG etc. But archery got very little buffs.

Poison injectiom got a 12% increase, that's good.
Draining shot got a heal after its use (although Idk how it works)

And that's it *sigh* I guess it's safe to say that archers are in the minority in this game I guess not alot of people try to main hand a bow in this game hence the small buffs each update.

I guess my favorite play style will be left in the dust.....

As a matter of fact that isn't it. Scorched Earth has changed into a physical damage attack. See the quote below:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Renamed this morph to Endless Hail.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the duration of the arrow volley to 10 seconds, reduces the cost, and deals Physical Damage instead of Flame Damage.

Personally though I liked it better as Scorched Earth...

Still not enough to make bow a main weapon.

I've been using bow as a main weapon since I've been playing and I do pretty damn well with it. I've seen a huge amount of PvP videos from other bow players as well and there are plenty of great players out there that use it with great success.

Anti_Virus · April 2016

colec74 wrote: »

I played another well known MMO for a little over a decade, and almost always had a hunter. It hindered the way I thought about combat when I came into the game initially. When I realized I don't have to have a "main" weapon. I use a bow and dual wield, and they complement each other well. If I want to stay away from a melee combatant I use the bow as much as possible. I do a pretty good job of using the terrain to kite them, but it does take skill. DoT them and autoattack when I can. Scatter shot is a nice utility skill that gets them off of you, and there are also other ranged attacks from other skill lines that work well at a distance. Some melee skills can be upgraded to ranged. Also, I can keep a melee stun on my bar to regain distance if needed. I personally like the way it's set up. It takes more skill to use, and isn't just an instant win like on other MMOs.

I run duel wield and bow as well, and what you say is true, when the game first came out that was going to be my setup, bow as my main weapon and dual wield for back up.

Turns out Archry Sucks in every aspect excepts stealth attacks, why use snipe with a cast time and travel time which is clearly dodgeable when I can wrecking blow/Dizzing Swing spam CC a target and empower the dmg.

ADarklore · April 2016

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

colec74 wrote: »

I played another well known MMO for a little over a decade, and almost always had a hunter. It hindered the way I thought about combat when I came into the game initially. When I realized I don't have to have a "main" weapon. I use a bow and dual wield, and they complement each other well. If I want to stay away from a melee combatant I use the bow as much as possible. I do a pretty good job of using the terrain to kite them, but it does take skill. DoT them and autoattack when I can. Scatter shot is a nice utility skill that gets them off of you, and there are also other ranged attacks from other skill lines that work well at a distance. Some melee skills can be upgraded to ranged. Also, I can keep a melee stun on my bar to regain distance if needed. I personally like the way it's set up. It takes more skill to use, and isn't just an instant win like on other MMOs.

I run duel wield and bow as well, and what you say is true, when the game first came out that was going to be my setup, bow as my main weapon and dual wield for back up.

Turns out Archry Sucks in every aspect excepts stealth attacks, why use snipe with a cast time and travel time which is clearly dodgeable when I can wrecking blow/Dizzing Swing spam CC a target and empower the dmg.

You must be talking about PvP ONLY... also 'why use snipe...' how about because that's how you enjoy playing. Not everyone in this game is a min/maxer and not every ability should be geared towards min/maxers. Sometimes skills and weapons are just FUN TO PLAY and can work if you put the time and energy into developing a playstyle that works with it. Sounds to me like you just want an easy playstyle, not one that involves a bit of extra L2P involved.

dimensional · April 2016

I can't tell you how many times I've outclassed someone while using well placed magnum shots against a player spamming melee skills. It's easily one of the best gap-creators in the game and I don't see many people use it.

leepalmer95 · April 2016

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Read the Patch Notes, and I love the changes so far.... heavy armor tanks got buffed, vamps got buffed, FG etc. But archery got very little buffs.

Poison injectiom got a 12% increase, that's good.
Draining shot got a heal after its use (although Idk how it works)

And that's it *sigh* I guess it's safe to say that archers are in the minority in this game I guess not alot of people try to main hand a bow in this game hence the small buffs each update.

I guess my favorite play style will be left in the dust.....

As a matter of fact that isn't it. Scorched Earth has changed into a physical damage attack. See the quote below:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Renamed this morph to Endless Hail.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the duration of the arrow volley to 10 seconds, reduces the cost, and deals Physical Damage instead of Flame Damage.

Personally though I liked it better as Scorched Earth...

Still not enough to make bow a main weapon.

Yep, and no matter how many threads I or others make about bow, the majority will say "it's fine" I just really want to be an Archer....

Bows a support weapon not a main dmg wpn.

Bow is basically the equivalent of a resto always going to be second bar and used for utility.

dimensional · April 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Read the Patch Notes, and I love the changes so far.... heavy armor tanks got buffed, vamps got buffed, FG etc. But archery got very little buffs.

Poison injectiom got a 12% increase, that's good.
Draining shot got a heal after its use (although Idk how it works)

And that's it *sigh* I guess it's safe to say that archers are in the minority in this game I guess not alot of people try to main hand a bow in this game hence the small buffs each update.

I guess my favorite play style will be left in the dust.....

As a matter of fact that isn't it. Scorched Earth has changed into a physical damage attack. See the quote below:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Renamed this morph to Endless Hail.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the duration of the arrow volley to 10 seconds, reduces the cost, and deals Physical Damage instead of Flame Damage.

Personally though I liked it better as Scorched Earth...

Still not enough to make bow a main weapon.

Yep, and no matter how many threads I or others make about bow, the majority will say "it's fine" I just really want to be an Archer....

Bows a support weapon not a main dmg wpn.

Bow is basically the equivalent of a resto always going to be second bar and used for utility.

I use it just as much as my other bar, not as a support or as a main. They are equal.

RedRoomGaming · April 2016

Have you not played pvp? Snipe, snipe, snipe, snipe,snipe,snipe EVERYWHERE! I used to used a bow all the time but got bored as hell just spamming one button at long range.

Anti_Virus · April 2016

ub17_ESO wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Read the Patch Notes, and I love the changes so far.... heavy armor tanks got buffed, vamps got buffed, FG etc. But archery got very little buffs.

Poison injectiom got a 12% increase, that's good.
Draining shot got a heal after its use (although Idk how it works)

And that's it *sigh* I guess it's safe to say that archers are in the minority in this game I guess not alot of people try to main hand a bow in this game hence the small buffs each update.

I guess my favorite play style will be left in the dust.....

As a matter of fact that isn't it. Scorched Earth has changed into a physical damage attack. See the quote below:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Renamed this morph to Endless Hail.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the duration of the arrow volley to 10 seconds, reduces the cost, and deals Physical Damage instead of Flame Damage.

Personally though I liked it better as Scorched Earth...

Still not enough to make bow a main weapon.

Yep, and no mattet how many threads I or others make about bow, the majority will say "it's fine" I just really want to be an Archer....

So be one. Only one stopping you is yourself and your belief that Bows are inferior.

You @UltimaJoe777 are a prime example of what I mean, I obviously use Bow, but when I go duel wield I have an Easier time playing, and yes bow is inferior how many people are running main hand bow in solo PVP? vMSA? No one so I don't BELIEVE they are "inferior" they are. That's why every stam build uses bow as a support/buff bar. I bet you are just another Fotm Meta player.

@ADarklore Omg this statment. -___- I'm aware that bow and staffs weapon dmg is low and it should be, but that is not the problem. It'sIt's the bow skills and the game mechanics that makes it suck, plus magic builds can play at range and bypass the range penalty (duel wield). Jeez it's like every stam build MUST play Melee or Die! No one is trying to make bow op I just want archers to be an actual role like in other MMO fantasy games.

Destro Staff has a great aoe (pulsar) a quick instant dps skill (crushing shock) ground dot(wall of elements) a debuff etc.

Let's look at the bow
Dot: poison arrow
Aoe: missing
Ground Dot: Volley
Instan cast dps: missing
Utility skill: missing

I dont main hand bow bc I choose not to, I dont like the play style, I prefer melee. However, bow has good flexibility and a good assortment of tools.

Dot/execute: lethal injection 15K tooltip & i'm not geared for bow and wearing TBS so my wpn dmg is a bit low. Not to mention the 12% bonus for range isnt factored in or the additional dmg vs low health tgts.

AOE: bombard tooltip of 6.5k Not bad for conal AOE instant cast that roots. IDK how hard the DoT morph hits

AOE DoT: arrow barrage tooltip of 22.9K not factoring the increased dmg from malestrom bow. Pretty strong!!

Instant cast: you win...scatter shot doesnt hit very hard and the range is fickle, 6K but has a knockback, but neither does the 2H line unless you count the execute but thats not really right bc the damage is poor until inside execute range

Single tgt spam: lethal arrow tooltip of 14.7 is better damage than WB, no knockback, but debuffs. again not taking into account the 12% bonus for being at range.

Utility: there is a good amount here: movement speed after a dodgeroll, 12% bonus for attacking at range where you want to be out of harms way, 1k extra crit rating for using bow, instant cast AOE root that does a decent amount of dmg, the other morph of lethal arrow is an interrupt to channeling tgts, item set that cause all bow attacks to snare, the anti-gap closer. DB will add a heal to the bow line...IDK what I'm missing here, but bow can be played with a great effectiveness. The AOE is fairly disgusting if you add caltrops to the party.

Now i have a hair to run through vMA with a Bow on main bar. I dont imagine it will be more difficult than playing magic DK

I dont see how the destruction staff line is extremely overpowered in comparison. The tooltips are fairly comparable.

My thoughts anyway...

Poison arrow and morphs are great the dot ticks hit hard at low HP

Bombard doesn't really count as an AoE since its a cone you have to position yourself correctly and fire in a 72 degree angle, Steel Tornado/pulsar just requires you to press the button in hit every thing around you.

The AoE dot is great especially with the Maelstrom bow.

Scater isn't meant for dps its a kiting skill but it fails to do so since the range is 10M while players can charge at you from double to distance. Plus the dmg is low.

Snipe, *sigh* put it like this, as a templar would you spam Darkflare instead of sweeps? Because both of these skills suffer the the same penalty its predictable to see and hear the projectiles so you have time to dodge/block. Etc. Plus the the long shot passive is almsot never in effect since you will always be melee range.

Anti_Virus · April 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Read the Patch Notes, and I love the changes so far.... heavy armor tanks got buffed, vamps got buffed, FG etc. But archery got very little buffs.

Poison injectiom got a 12% increase, that's good.
Draining shot got a heal after its use (although Idk how it works)

And that's it *sigh* I guess it's safe to say that archers are in the minority in this game I guess not alot of people try to main hand a bow in this game hence the small buffs each update.

I guess my favorite play style will be left in the dust.....

As a matter of fact that isn't it. Scorched Earth has changed into a physical damage attack. See the quote below:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

Renamed this morph to Endless Hail.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the duration of the arrow volley to 10 seconds, reduces the cost, and deals Physical Damage instead of Flame Damage.

Personally though I liked it better as Scorched Earth...

Still not enough to make bow a main weapon.

Yep, and no matter how many threads I or others make about bow, the majority will say "it's fine" I just really want to be an Archer....

Bows a support weapon not a main dmg wpn.

Bow is basically the equivalent of a resto always going to be second bar and used for utility.

It shouldn't be.

Anti_Virus · April 2016

RedRoomGaming wrote: »

Have you not played pvp? Snipe, snipe, snipe, snipe,snipe,snipe EVERYWHERE! I used to used a bow all the time but got bored as hell just spamming one button at long range.

How are you getting killed by Snipe? It's so predictable and easy to counter. Unless its from stealth and if that's the case thats what my arguement is all about archers being forced to be gankers/ support roles.

Anti_Virus · April 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

colec74 wrote: »

I played another well known MMO for a little over a decade, and almost always had a hunter. It hindered the way I thought about combat when I came into the game initially. When I realized I don't have to have a "main" weapon. I use a bow and dual wield, and they complement each other well. If I want to stay away from a melee combatant I use the bow as much as possible. I do a pretty good job of using the terrain to kite them, but it does take skill. DoT them and autoattack when I can. Scatter shot is a nice utility skill that gets them off of you, and there are also other ranged attacks from other skill lines that work well at a distance. Some melee skills can be upgraded to ranged. Also, I can keep a melee stun on my bar to regain distance if needed. I personally like the way it's set up. It takes more skill to use, and isn't just an instant win like on other MMOs.

I run duel wield and bow as well, and what you say is true, when the game first came out that was going to be my setup, bow as my main weapon and dual wield for back up.

Turns out Archry Sucks in every aspect excepts stealth attacks, why use snipe with a cast time and travel time which is clearly dodgeable when I can wrecking blow/Dizzing Swing spam CC a target and empower the dmg.

You must be talking about PvP ONLY... also 'why use snipe...' how about because that's how you enjoy playing. Not everyone in this game is a min/maxer and not every ability should be geared towards min/maxers. Sometimes skills and weapons are just FUN TO PLAY and can work if you put the time and energy into developing a playstyle that works with it. Sounds to me like you just want an easy playstyle, not one that involves a bit of extra L2P involved.

No its not just pvp In fact its more of a PVE issue I can CC most mobs and deal a ton of dmg, with Snipe I lose the long shot passive when mobs get in melee range and since its impossible to stay at range why hunder yourself with a bow?

Lol did I even mention Min-Maxing? NO don't put words in my mouth. And No it's not fun to play its frustrating other fantasy games have dedicated archers except this one. Seriously Do you SEE and main hand archer builds that preform well outsude of dungeons/PVP builds that require stealth and ganking? Something that people hate a unique effective build that DOEN'T USE BOW AS A BACK BAR UTILITY? NO. I think you need to Get your head out of your a** and analyze why bow is slightly lacking.

Get that L2P Sh*t out of here. No one is calling for an Easy mode, Just want more build Diversty than the typical "2h and bow" builds where all stam builds are FORCED to play melee whether it's PVE/PVP. It's people like you that hinder this game. Go away!

leepalmer95 · April 2016

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

RedRoomGaming wrote: »

Have you not played pvp? Snipe, snipe, snipe, snipe,snipe,snipe EVERYWHERE! I used to used a bow all the time but got bored as hell just spamming one button at long range.

How are yoy getting killed by Snipe? It's so predictable and easy to counter. Unless its from stealth and if that's the case thats what my arguement is all about archers being forced to be gankers.

Snipe also has a stupid range, in keep fights is very effective no other skill has it's ranged so you can spam it safely without anyone being able to fire something back.

Anti_Virus · April 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

RedRoomGaming wrote: »

Have you not played pvp? Snipe, snipe, snipe, snipe,snipe,snipe EVERYWHERE! I used to used a bow all the time but got bored as hell just spamming one button at long range.

How are yoy getting killed by Snipe? It's so predictable and easy to counter. Unless its from stealth and if that's the case thats what my arguement is all about archers being forced to be gankers.

Snipe also has a stupid range, in keep fights is very effective no other skill has it's ranged so you can spam it safely without anyone being able to fire something back.

Yep you just proved my point. Yes in Keep fights when you have a large group with you its VERY easy to snipe people same said for group dungeons where the tank has boss aggro, but take that group away are you still going to snipe people by yourself? Nope you will get demolished by people and Melee mobs.

cyclonus11 · April 2016

As an exclusive bow user, I use Draining Shot and Poison Injection regularly. So these are welcome changes.

I don't use Scorched Earth, though, and the changes to it aren't enough to convince me to start again.

willymchilybily · April 2016

my guild mate runs main hand bow. and off hand bow.

Admittedly he has slightly subapar situational awareness at times and he stays at range so much to make use of the passive he normally ends up in trouble because of heal ranges and environmental damage and the cast times of snipe arent ideal for some boss engagements like darkshade caverns or molag kena. but he is good at pvp and he can pump out good damage in PvE too, for such an unconventional build. he is actually pretty good at group damage with acid spray/arrow barrage/caltrops. I thought his single target may lack slightly but haven't seen any evidence if he is allowed to focus

you might not be pulling >30k dps, but with coming changes to grim focus, coupled with the changes to hawkeye before that, you probably can as a stam NB get some nice single target dps to go with the group dps. especially if you can run maelstrom bow and drop AOE during a good single target rotation.

You can play how you want. You can run bow as your main damage. You can run it as your only weapon. it has the utility enough as a weapon to facilitate this. But you have to accept the limitations, like you would with any other weapon set up.

Anti_Virus · April 2016

willymchilybily wrote: »

my guild mate runs main hand bow. and off hand bow.

Admittedly he has slightly subapar situational awareness at times and he stays at range so much to make use of the passive he normally ends up in trouble because of heal ranges and environmental damage and the cast times of snipe arent ideal for some boss engagements like darkshade caverns or molag kena. but he is good at pvp and he can pump out good damage in PvE too, for such an unconventional build. he is actually pretty good at group damage with acid spray/arrow barrage/caltrops. I thought his single target may lack slightly but haven't seen any evidence if he is allowed to focus

you might not be pulling >30k dps, but with coming changes to grim focus, coupled with the changes to hawkeye before that, you probably can as a stam NB get some nice single target dps to go with the group dps. especially if you can run maelstrom bow and drop AOE during a good single target rotation.

You can play how you want. You can run bow as your main damage. You can run it as your only weapon. it has the utility enough as a weapon to facilitate this. But you have to accept the limitations, like you would with any other weapon set up.

^ Great explanation you pretty much outlined the problems with archery

willymchilybily wrote: »

my guild mate runs main hand bow. and off hand bow.

Admittedly he has slightly subapar situational awareness at times and he stays at range so much to make use of the passive he normally ends up in trouble because of heal ranges and environmental damage and the cast times of snipe arent ideal for some boss engagements like darkshade caverns or molag kena. but he is good at pvp and he can pump out good damage in PvE too, for such an unconventional build. he is actually pretty good at group damage with acid spray/arrow barrage/caltrops. I thought his single target may lack slightly but haven't seen any evidence if he is allowed to focus

you might not be pulling >30k dps, but with coming changes to grim focus, coupled with the changes to hawkeye before that, you probably can as a stam NB get some nice single target dps to go with the group dps. especially if you can run maelstrom bow and drop AOE during a good single target rotation.

You can play how you want. You can run bow as your main damage. You can run it as your only weapon. it has the utility enough as a weapon to facilitate this. But you have to accept the limitations, like you would with any other weapon set up.

yeah, I guess so. I give up Dedicated Archers just won't exist in this game I guess i'll have to play other fantasy games.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2016

OldManJim wrote: »

I haven't read everything above, but does Scorched Earth now get nerfed for DK's? With bonuses to fire damage etc?

Your buffs from mighty and piercing will more then make up for the difference.

Daveheart wrote: »

So the longest range ability in game (that can hit like a truck), a strong execute DoT, an AoE DoT that gets insanely strong with the maelstrom bow, and the ridiculously broken ability that is Bombard isn't enough for you? You can do a ton up close and personal with melee weapons, but don't come whining that bow is completely broken.

Unless of course, you're talking about PvE DPS. Bow is only really suitable as a DoT utility secondary weapon in PvE.

Archers having the longest range power is a given. Snipe (45m) and Poison Arrow (36) are the best powers we have Scatter Shots is in Melee range this new heal may be good we will have to test more. Bombard is as broken as another AoE root and hits just as hard for next to nothing it's good in a Zerg cause other people are doing damage was you tickle the enemy. Who stands in a ground AoE?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · April 2016

This is a PVE/PVP balancing issue, unfortunately.

Bow is not competitive DPS in PVE, period end of story. Can you make a bow build and run most content just fine? Sure, but you wont pull as much DPS as your melee counter part, which probably makes sense. What doesnt makes sense is that you also wont pull as much DPS as other ranged classes like Magic NB or Sorc. I would love for a ranged bow build to be viable again in PVE.

Problem was that last time this was true, the Bow was way overpowered in PVP, and everyone was getting one-shot by some sort of snipe combo. Bow is still viable in PVP as it stands. In order to make it viable in both, they would probably need to re-work snipe somehow.

Hyssia · April 2016

I'm using bow in PvP. Not using "Snipe" or "Bombard" or any of those abilities that you see the brainless PuGs spamming.

Poison injection - this was already OP imo (Stealthed heavy attack > PI > crit rush > soul harvest, get oneshot), and in duels it'd randomly tick for ~5k+ if enemy was below 50% health.

Draining Shot - This. This badass guy just got buffed big time - as a stamblade, this will add a 3rd heal to my arsenal. What is there to complain about? The knockback + CC (from double cast) is extremely underrated, both in 1vs1 and 1vX. But the heal? Hey man, I just got buffed big time.

Endless Hail - I'd love to stack this with caltrops and possibly veil of blades in 1vX / 2vX.

I'm of course going to assume that the majority of you who read this are zergers - so I'm sorry that your precious snipe or bombard didn't get buffed. Tough luck, change your playstyle. Solo won't hurt.

MaxwellC · April 2016

Heavy armor got Nerf'd*
Fixed it for ya.

@UltimaJoe777
I made a reccomendation where they should change scorched earth into something I called "Venomous Rain" where the it would put a AoE on the ground that would cause extra poison damage while the arrows would give a poison DoT