Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And it would be just available on summer sale and after that time exclusive to subscribers.

This may be actually be a suitable compromise, tho I think the one thing that would keep ZOS from making it an outright crown store purchase is the continued access to the crafting bags. I am sure they want to ensure the continued revenue stream by ensuring people must continue their subs to keep access to the bag. A direct c.store purchase would bypass this.

Maybe a more suitable alternative would be to offer anyone already owning a DLC a months free sub for each DLC already owned, so if you own IC and TG you would get two months free sub. This would serve to help both incentivize (made up word) and compensate those who have already bought the DLCs as well as sort of market the crafting bags as once you have them I doubt you would want to lose them and would therefore continue your sub. Lots of companies offer a free limited time subscription to temp you into maintaining that sub...this may be ZOS chance to do something similar.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Doncellius wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

Point 1.... your poll is badly written and exceptionally biased... you want a genuine response to support your argument make it more neutral.

Point 2..... It's nothing to do with being able to give ZoS money via a one off microtransaction in the crown store. It's HOW ZoS gets the money thats important here...

Microtrasactions are neither consistent nor forecast-able. ZoS neds a forecast-able & reliable revenue stream (Via Subs) to be able to talk to shareholders etc about future development etc.

Many people will have dropped subs when the game went B2P.... they need to get more people back on a regular pay plan so they can demonstrate the project has future sustainability to the money men and keep the development going.

That's why this is sub only, and why it will likely stay that way.

Poll isn't biased. Perhaps you dislike how I separated (in a 100% impartial way) Subs and Non-Subs for supporting the current plan? You don't have to like my own (popular in-game rather than forums) opinion.

A Crafting Bag doesn't get people thinking "Wow, ZOS really did it! I'm sooooo paying $15 a month now despite that I already paid for multiple DLCs full price! Love these guys!"

People get frustrated that such a long-time, highly requested feature is being placed behind a Sub fee. Not happy. Only the minority of Subs are happy, and even many of them can see the unfairness despite it benefitting them.

I'll make this very simple for you, as it's already been mentioned many time sin this thread.

If the poll was unbiased then the language used should be neutral & in no way convey the opinion of the person creating the poll.

When you read your poll, you know exactly what your opinion is....language used and the structure is designed entirely to support and skew in favour of your own opinion.

That's the very definition of biased.

I don't blame you for it.... you have an opinion that you're totally entitled to.... just don't try and defend it as if you have created a totally neutral poll, and then also portray a tiny snapshot of a couple of hundred people as any kind of fact.

Back to the subject in hand though.... I have an experience which is the opposite to yours..... most people I speak to understand the WHY of this, rather than just feeling aggrieved because of their own situation & claiming unfairness. I know a LOT of people who are either now staying subbed, or starting up.

Neither you nor I have any way of seeing the data ZoS has on their sub rates.... how this impacts the future development of the game (Predictable & forecastable revenue streams - see my earlier post), nor any way to accurately predict & forecast the likely uptake of subs after this. So TBH it's all a bit moot... we should just wait & see the patch notes on monday

I hope for ZOS's sake you aren't kidding. Console is not taking it as gracefully as those you have spoken to on PC seem to. The best way I can sum up reaction on PS4 (and I quote numerous times) is "Wtf. But I already bought DLC I'm not subbing for that! [cussing]"

Then dont sub. What is the problem? If you dont care about the bag then dont sub. Why toss a fit about it?

Same reason that people complain about PvP lag.

Then dont PvP. What is your problem? If you dont care about PvP anymore then dont play it? Why toss a fit about it?
*see what I did there?

I want the bag. If I sub, I am screwed out of the money I have already spent purchasing DLC. It is innately unfair and unhealthy for ESO's reputation. This is the situation of a large majority of the actual playerbase, not the playerbase of these forums. I created a poll version of the large discussion about Crafting Bags, in hope to change some minds. I already knew the results before the first few votes were in because I read the responses around the forums.

Lysette wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Players, who would buy this bag would still buy the DLC content, so this should not be unreasonably overpriced. And it would avoid the bad feeling, those would have who bought all DLC content so far, to basically have to subscribe to get the bag and with it their investment into DLCs is basically lost. I myself have bought Orsinium and IC - so I have basically wasted crowns on this content, because I am a subscriber now.

From a corporate financials perspective:

1. There is no guarantee that those who will buy the crafting bags, if offered as a crown store purchase, will also buy the DLCs.

2. Past transactions have no bearing on future transactions. Whether you subbed to get access to the DLCs and used your crowns to buy vanity stuff, subbed for months and used accumulated crowns to buy the DLCs, or never subbed and bought the DLCs outright is irrelevant as you likely broke even if you subbed to buy or bought outright. This has no bearing on future transactions. If one of the perks of subbing is continued access to DLCs without buying them, then you have incentive to start subbing now as you will get access to DB and all other future DLCs as well as get the shiny new crafting bag. We cannot cry over spilled mill. No one can predict the future and therefore no one can anticipate who best to spend our hard earned money. However, we have known since well before TG DLC that crafting bags were coming and that they would be a ESO+ perk only, so you certainly could have saved money on the TG purchase.

Look, I agree that inventory management is a nightmare, and that everyone will want crafting bags. I want them, and am willing to sub to get them. Regardless, it is not unfair for a profit based company to offer a tangible and desirable perk as an incentive for subscriptions. These are a convenience item and do not qualify as P2W, as it would be a serious foul if subs got a PvE and/or PvP advantage. Simply, either you want the bags enough to sub, or you don't (or cannot afford them). Either way, ZOS has the right to make such an item sub only. No forum crusade will change it.

My bad - that I think in terms of honor and fairness as a business owner in real life. I am not going to sign up for capitalism, but I think that a business should be honorable, while still being profitable. Customer relations are largely underestimated in your point of view. In a world of social media, a company has to care more than in the past for it's reputation and having a good reputation brings in new customers, because players are actually liking the company running the game and suggest it to their friends. This is a huge difference between ESO and EVE for example. While the relation of players to ZOS is broken, EVE has a real bond with their player-base. That game will never go down the drain, because players would even help out of their own wallets, if required - but they are a healthy company, where employees have fun working for the company and players are happy subscribers, they do charity and they support science with projects - project discovery is an ingame activity, which actually helps science in the field of Bioinformatics - it is a win-win situation for many areas, this company will prosper and I as a player do not have to fear, that EVE would not be there in 10 or 20 years - it will be,. whereas ESO will be gone.

Lysette wrote: »

Wanderinlost wrote: »

The sub only ESO ship sailed long ago. This is pushing us who have bought into the DLC model into an unwanted subscription to get a highly desired and long awaited feature. We are only here spending money and buying crown packs because we were given the impression this game was B2P. This is a move backwards towards P2P. Exclusivity has no inherent benefits to ESO+ members and denies the rest of us the option of a one time purchase that we have every right to expect as long term customers of a game rebranded as B2P and "unlimited". They can try to have it both ways, and perhaps they will get away with it for a while, but it has just as much chance of backfiring as it does creating any long-term subscribers.

For example the $400 I have spent since ESO launched will be a max of $30 next year if this stands. I can live without playing this game for 10 months of the year, there are other games, so instead of buying DLC, upgrading features, and occasionally subbing, I will simply sub 1-2 months get all access, the one feature I actually want and then leave as soon as the timer is up. Perhaps the year after that it will be $0.

One day I will look back at the game with 30 DLC and wonder what could have been had the company not so foolishly driven away a loyal customer. That is if it even around that long.


The sub model is dead. FFXIV might be on the upswing, but WoW is going down fast, EvE is dropping year over year and there really aren't many more than can rely on subs. What makes you think that subs in this game account for even 25% of the revenue the game generates? The average revenue per customer may be higher for subs, but there are probably 5 times as many of us who are buying crowns and DLC and are going to be denied the choice to purchase a feature.

EVE isn't dropping - there is just a more effective way to combat bots in place and so the amount of parallel logins from the same player has lessened. But the player-base is still strong. CCP will not go off the subscription model and we as players do not want them to go off this path. It works out well, we get huge expansions for free - next week the citadel expansion, which will allow us to build cities in space, which have sizes of up to 150km - and what has ESO?- not even a tent to stay in.

olsborg wrote: »

ESO+ has little use already, some more use is in order to justify paying a monthly fee.

Nacacia wrote: »

EZgoin76 wrote: »

Copied this verbatim from another thread because I hate typing.

I think it's completely fair to give us subs something worthwhile and substantial for subbing. That being said. I also like a couple of @Gidorick s ideas. No not the damn Auction Horse either.

Instead of giving non-subs the same crafting bag subs are getting. At least put something in the crown store to alleviate non-subs inventory problems. By this I don't mean the extra character slots to make mules either. I mean a per character bag that can hold so many items.

500 crown bag = 50 spaces
1000 crown bag = 100 spaces
1500 crown bag = 150 spaces

Doesn't have to be those prices. It's just an example but you get my point.

That way subs still get something exclusive and non-subs have a way to carry more stuff.

I assume you know that the crown store currently has 10 inventory spaces @ 1000 crowns... so it would be more likely that such an idea wouldn't float at less than 10 for 1000.

So using that your idea would be more like...

5000 crown bag = 50 spaces
10000 crown bag = 100 spaces
15000 crown bag = 150 spaces

The other problem with this is subscription vs non-subscription mode... you have 150 spaces in non-subscription mode but unlimited in subscription mode. If you get 150, then subscribe and put a ton of stuff in it, and then unsubscribe, then they have to either give the first 150 items in your bag, or write another routine so you can pick which 150 items, which makes it more complex, and thus they would likely raise the crown bag cost to cover the cost of development.

Aimora wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

People feel strongly on this topic. You won't get many of the trolls picking random answers. When I created this thread, it served as a poll version of the discussion on this topic (other thread). The toxicity coming from this thread makes me ashamed to have joined these forums, which are unbelievably detatched from the actual in-game opinions right now.

Wish I could lock this thread and pretend I hadn't heard about Crafting Bags yet.

This bit is very interesting as it is an opinion not a fact (which it seems to are attempting to project it as) as my perception and interaction is very different from yours - as stated previously many of my friends and guild members welcome this and think it is a good idea to prolong the financing of the game.