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Crafting Bag Exclusivity
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Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am an ESO+ member)When it comes to a reasonable price, I would suggest 1500-2000 crowns. Players, who would buy this bag would still buy the DLC content, so this should not be unreasonably overpriced. And it would avoid the bad feeling, those would have who bought all DLC content so far, would have to subcribe to get the bag and see their investment into the DLCs as basically lost.
That's not enough, it's only ~ 1 month of subscription. i think they want it as an long-term-tool to generate money. So maybe make it cost around 1 year of subscription. Remember...the championsystem in it's current state is a progression system for the next 15 years and they need money the whole time. Related to this 18k Crowns (equals 1 year subscription) is pretty cheap.Noobplar1 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should remain freely accessible to ESO+ members, but also be put up for sale on the Crown Store. Similar to DLC.I can see myself leaving this game. This is another clear indication of where it's headed
Problem is I'm not subbing for the amount of bugs and lack of quality. It's not about the bags but the problems and cash monetizing.-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5014 -
Flaminir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am an ESO+ member)Doncellius wrote: »Point 1.... your poll is badly written and exceptionally biased... you want a genuine response to support your argument make it more neutral.
Point 2..... It's nothing to do with being able to give ZoS money via a one off microtransaction in the crown store. It's HOW ZoS gets the money thats important here...
Microtrasactions are neither consistent nor forecast-able. ZoS neds a forecast-able & reliable revenue stream (Via Subs) to be able to talk to shareholders etc about future development etc.
Many people will have dropped subs when the game went B2P.... they need to get more people back on a regular pay plan so they can demonstrate the project has future sustainability to the money men and keep the development going.
That's why this is sub only, and why it will likely stay that way.
Poll isn't biased. Perhaps you dislike how I separated (in a 100% impartial way) Subs and Non-Subs for supporting the current plan? You don't have to like my own (popular in-game rather than forums) opinion.
A Crafting Bag doesn't get people thinking "Wow, ZOS really did it! I'm sooooo paying $15 a month now despite that I already paid for multiple DLCs full price! Love these guys!"
People get frustrated that such a long-time, highly requested feature is being placed behind a Sub fee. Not happy. Only the minority of Subs are happy, and even many of them can see the unfairness despite it benefitting them.
I'll make this very simple for you, as it's already been mentioned many time sin this thread.
If the poll was unbiased then the language used should be neutral & in no way convey the opinion of the person creating the poll.
When you read your poll, you know exactly what your opinion is....language used and the structure is designed entirely to support and skew in favour of your own opinion.
That's the very definition of biased.
I don't blame you for it.... you have an opinion that you're totally entitled to.... just don't try and defend it as if you have created a totally neutral poll, and then also portray a tiny snapshot of a couple of hundred people as any kind of fact.
Back to the subject in hand though.... I have an experience which is the opposite to yours..... most people I speak to understand the WHY of this, rather than just feeling aggrieved because of their own situation & claiming unfairness. I know a LOT of people who are either now staying subbed, or starting up.
Neither you nor I have any way of seeing the data ZoS has on their sub rates.... how this impacts the future development of the game (Predictable & forecastable revenue streams - see my earlier post), nor any way to accurately predict & forecast the likely uptake of subs after this. So TBH it's all a bit moot... we should just wait & see the patch notes on monday
Edited by Flaminir on April 24, 2016 11:51AMGM of the Unholy LegacyPC/EU/EP3 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should remain freely accessible to ESO+ members, but also be put up for sale on the Crown Store. Similar to DLC.Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Doncellius wrote: »Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Lol, I just saw this in someone else's reply...
"The results of this poll will determine just how out of touch/elitist "sub vs non-sub" these forums are compared to the actual in-game playerbase. Judging from the vMA completion poll, my guess is the first option will be the most popular. We shall see"
Guess it was part of the OP and you edited it out @Doncellius. So, having a grown-up understanding of business and a real world expectation that a company must earn profits makes gamers elitist? Can't help but sit in awe at the forums and the ignorance and entitlement of some posters.
But, just for arguments sake, lets say players agree with you that crafting bags should be put up for sale in the crown store, and ZOS lists them for 5k tel var stones, or more. I can only imagine you would then whine they are too expensive and call ZOS greedy and call out anyone who pays for it as an elitist pay-to-win expletive.
Edited what out? I usually only edit for spelling mistakes since it is more difficult to see typos when typing from an iPhone.
Sorry to ruin your entire point, but you should go to the first page. It's one of the first comments
EDIT: You're awefully eager to shoot me down for some reason. Smh. You named yourself after advice you need to take for yourself. You could have easily answered the unbiased poll and stated your opinion. Instead, you attack me as much as you can, without even reading through previous comments.
Fair enough, I see it is a reply in a lower post. Forgive me for not reading thru all of your BS. It is an ignorant post. Guess I am programmed to overlook non-sense.
As for your claim that your poll is unbiased... If it were unbiased, you would not have the caveat in the first couple options that "I am an ESO+ Member". This implies that only a subscriber would agree with this. In reality, I am sure most mature adults agree with it, even if not subscribers; if not agree with it or like it, then certainly understand it. ZOS is a company and they must make money. There is nothing wrong with offering subs a quality perk, and in MMOs it is hard to offer perks that do not fringe upon P2W; crafting bags are a reasonable offer to subs.
Look, I agree that inventory management in this game is a nightmare. The tendency for ZOS to make sets BoP in recent DLCs has certainly compounded the problem since we are now forced to horde as we never know when sets will get buffed or nerfed and, because the RNG rates in this game are atrocious, we cannot be assured we can replace said sets in a reasonable time-frame. The devs really need to do something about the BoP system and inventory management as a whole. As is, most players are forced to create mules, but those of use that actively play all our characters cannot rely on mules. I am forced to create a guild just to use as a personal bank for an extra 500 slots. Who knows, maybe keeping inventory space small and the prevalence of mules is part of their stragety to sell new character slots. I agree that inventory management needs to be addressed, and even that it would be nice for crafting bags to be available to all.
However, your polled is biased, and as such, I completely disregarded any relevance it may have. There are more tactful ways to discuss issues. Furthermore, you claims that anyone who sides one way is an elitist that is out of touch with the gaming community is absurd and completely skews you as someone incapable of a rational thought or grown-up discussion.
Your jumbling everything together. Relax a bit! Lol.
When you see ESO+ member or not an ESO+ member for two separate options, it means the same thing.
It serves solely to distinguish those who are Subbed to those who aren't. I did this because I took an educated guess that most Subs were going to say yes. The second option allows Non-Subs to be recognized as well for picking Yes. Because of this, you can tell how many Subs compared to non-Subs chose Yes, an interesting thing to look at.
Please, if you're going to continue to be as harsh and childish as possible, just send me PMs instead. Would rather not we cause this entire thread to be us arguing.Edited by Vaoh on April 24, 2016 11:57AM0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am an ESO+ member)Doncellius wrote: »Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Doncellius wrote: »Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Lol, I just saw this in someone else's reply...
"The results of this poll will determine just how out of touch/elitist "sub vs non-sub" these forums are compared to the actual in-game playerbase. Judging from the vMA completion poll, my guess is the first option will be the most popular. We shall see"
Guess it was part of the OP and you edited it out @Doncellius. So, having a grown-up understanding of business and a real world expectation that a company must earn profits makes gamers elitist? Can't help but sit in awe at the forums and the ignorance and entitlement of some posters.
But, just for arguments sake, lets say players agree with you that crafting bags should be put up for sale in the crown store, and ZOS lists them for 5k tel var stones, or more. I can only imagine you would then whine they are too expensive and call ZOS greedy and call out anyone who pays for it as an elitist pay-to-win expletive.
Edited what out? I usually only edit for spelling mistakes since it is more difficult to see typos when typing from an iPhone.
Sorry to ruin your entire point, but you should go to the first page. It's one of the first comments
EDIT: You're awefully eager to shoot me down for some reason. Smh. You named yourself after advice you need to take for yourself. You could have easily answered the unbiased poll and stated your opinion. Instead, you attack me as much as you can, without even reading through previous comments.
Fair enough, I see it is a reply in a lower post. Forgive me for not reading thru all of your BS. It is an ignorant post. Guess I am programmed to overlook non-sense.
As for your claim that your poll is unbiased... If it were unbiased, you would not have the caveat in the first couple options that "I am an ESO+ Member". This implies that only a subscriber would agree with this. In reality, I am sure most mature adults agree with it, even if not subscribers; if not agree with it or like it, then certainly understand it. ZOS is a company and they must make money. There is nothing wrong with offering subs a quality perk, and in MMOs it is hard to offer perks that do not fringe upon P2W; crafting bags are a reasonable offer to subs.
Look, I agree that inventory management in this game is a nightmare. The tendency for ZOS to make sets BoP in recent DLCs has certainly compounded the problem since we are now forced to horde as we never know when sets will get buffed or nerfed and, because the RNG rates in this game are atrocious, we cannot be assured we can replace said sets in a reasonable time-frame. The devs really need to do something about the BoP system and inventory management as a whole. As is, most players are forced to create mules, but those of use that actively play all our characters cannot rely on mules. I am forced to create a guild just to use as a personal bank for an extra 500 slots. Who knows, maybe keeping inventory space small and the prevalence of mules is part of their stragety to sell new character slots. I agree that inventory management needs to be addressed, and even that it would be nice for crafting bags to be available to all.
However, your polled is biased, and as such, I completely disregarded any relevance it may have. There are more tactful ways to discuss issues. Furthermore, you claims that anyone who sides one way is an elitist that is out of touch with the gaming community is absurd and completely skews you as someone incapable of a rational thought or grown-up discussion.
Your jumbling everything together. Relax a bit! Lol.
When you see ESO+ member or not an ESO+ member for two separate options, it means the same thing.
It serves solely to distinguish those who are Subbed to those who aren't. I did this because I took an educated guess that most Subs were going to say yes. The second option allows Non-Subs to be recognized as well for picking Yes. Because of this, you can tell how many Subs compared to non-Subs chose Yes, an interesting thing to look at.
This all doesn't matter. poll answers should have been:
1. Yes
2. No
3. i don't mind
Maybe it's interesting whether the guys are subbed or not, but i can choose everything i want. Even if it#s the false option. So it's just a useless and maybe even false information.Noobplar2 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am an ESO+ member)Do you guys seriously think they will give up $15 a month to sell a crafting bag for a measly 1000 crowns? Give me a break. You can panhandle $15 a month.2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should remain freely accessible to ESO+ members, but also be put up for sale on the Crown Store. Similar to DLC.When it comes to a reasonable price, I would suggest 1500-2000 crowns. Players, who would buy this bag would still buy the DLC content, so this should not be unreasonably overpriced. And it would avoid the bad feeling, those would have who bought all DLC content so far, would have to subcribe to get the bag and see their investment into the DLCs as basically lost.
That's not enough, it's only ~ 1 month of subscription. i think they want it as an long-term-tool to generate money. So maybe make it cost around 1 year of subscription. Remember...the championsystem in it's current state is a progression system for the next 15 years and they need money the whole time. Related to this 18k Crowns (equals 1 year subscription) is pretty cheap.
See, that my suggestion would be a limited time offer - for those, who want to stick with the "I am buying DLC content" concept and have invested into this already. Don't forget that the effective payment for a subscription minus the crowns you get is just about 1.50€ per month - so my suggested price is the equivalent to about a year of subscription - and this group will continue to buy DLCs as well - out of their own wallets, not from crown allotments like a subscriber does ít. So 1500-2000 crowns is reasonable. And it would be just available on summer sale and after that time exclusive to subscribers.Edited by Lysette on April 24, 2016 12:03PM1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should remain freely accessible to ESO+ members, but also be put up for sale on the Crown Store. Similar to DLC.When it comes to a reasonable price, I would suggest 1500-2000 crowns. Players, who would buy this bag would still buy the DLC content, so this should not be unreasonably overpriced. And it would avoid the bad feeling, those would have who bought all DLC content so far, would have to subcribe to get the bag and see their investment into the DLCs as basically lost.
That's not enough, it's only ~ 1 month of subscription. i think they want it as an long-term-tool to generate money. So maybe make it cost around 1 year of subscription. Remember...the championsystem in it's current state is a progression system for the next 15 years and they need money the whole time. Related to this 18k Crowns (equals 1 year subscription) is pretty cheap.
18K Crowns......1 -
Refuse2GrowUp✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am an ESO+ member)Players, who would buy this bag would still buy the DLC content, so this should not be unreasonably overpriced. And it would avoid the bad feeling, those would have who bought all DLC content so far, to basically have to subscribe to get the bag and with it their investment into DLCs is basically lost. I myself have bought Orsinium and IC - so I have basically wasted crowns on this content, because I am a subscriber now.
From a corporate financials perspective:
1. There is no guarantee that those who will buy the crafting bags, if offered as a crown store purchase, will also buy the DLCs.
2. Past transactions have no bearing on future transactions. Whether you subbed to get access to the DLCs and used your crowns to buy vanity stuff, subbed for months and used accumulated crowns to buy the DLCs, or never subbed and bought the DLCs outright is irrelevant as you likely broke even if you subbed to buy or bought outright. This has no bearing on future transactions. If one of the perks of subbing is continued access to DLCs without buying them, then you have incentive to start subbing now as you will get access to DB and all other future DLCs as well as get the shiny new crafting bag. We cannot cry over spilled mill. No one can predict the future and therefore no one can anticipate who best to spend our hard earned money. However, we have known since well before TG DLC that crafting bags were coming and that they would be a ESO+ perk only, so you certainly could have saved money on the TG purchase.
Look, I agree that inventory management is a nightmare, and that everyone will want crafting bags. I want them, and am willing to sub to get them. Regardless, it is not unfair for a profit based company to offer a tangible and desirable perk as an incentive for subscriptions. These are a convenience item and do not qualify as P2W, as it would be a serious foul if subs got a PvE and/or PvP advantage. Simply, either you want the bags enough to sub, or you don't (or cannot afford them). Either way, ZOS has the right to make such an item sub only. No forum crusade will change it.
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EP Loyalist1 -
RedRoomGaming✭✭✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am an ESO+ member)It should be free to the sub members because we should get nice things because if you sub for a long time (since ps4 release) you have bought the dlc 4 times over.PS4 Eu Server
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1 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am an ESO+ member)Doncellius wrote: »Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Doncellius wrote: »Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Lol, I just saw this in someone else's reply...
"The results of this poll will determine just how out of touch/elitist "sub vs non-sub" these forums are compared to the actual in-game playerbase. Judging from the vMA completion poll, my guess is the first option will be the most popular. We shall see"
Guess it was part of the OP and you edited it out @Doncellius. So, having a grown-up understanding of business and a real world expectation that a company must earn profits makes gamers elitist? Can't help but sit in awe at the forums and the ignorance and entitlement of some posters.
But, just for arguments sake, lets say players agree with you that crafting bags should be put up for sale in the crown store, and ZOS lists them for 5k tel var stones, or more. I can only imagine you would then whine they are too expensive and call ZOS greedy and call out anyone who pays for it as an elitist pay-to-win expletive.
Edited what out? I usually only edit for spelling mistakes since it is more difficult to see typos when typing from an iPhone.
Sorry to ruin your entire point, but you should go to the first page. It's one of the first comments
EDIT: You're awefully eager to shoot me down for some reason. Smh. You named yourself after advice you need to take for yourself. You could have easily answered the unbiased poll and stated your opinion. Instead, you attack me as much as you can, without even reading through previous comments.
Fair enough, I see it is a reply in a lower post. Forgive me for not reading thru all of your BS. It is an ignorant post. Guess I am programmed to overlook non-sense.
As for your claim that your poll is unbiased... If it were unbiased, you would not have the caveat in the first couple options that "I am an ESO+ Member". This implies that only a subscriber would agree with this. In reality, I am sure most mature adults agree with it, even if not subscribers; if not agree with it or like it, then certainly understand it. ZOS is a company and they must make money. There is nothing wrong with offering subs a quality perk, and in MMOs it is hard to offer perks that do not fringe upon P2W; crafting bags are a reasonable offer to subs.
Look, I agree that inventory management in this game is a nightmare. The tendency for ZOS to make sets BoP in recent DLCs has certainly compounded the problem since we are now forced to horde as we never know when sets will get buffed or nerfed and, because the RNG rates in this game are atrocious, we cannot be assured we can replace said sets in a reasonable time-frame. The devs really need to do something about the BoP system and inventory management as a whole. As is, most players are forced to create mules, but those of use that actively play all our characters cannot rely on mules. I am forced to create a guild just to use as a personal bank for an extra 500 slots. Who knows, maybe keeping inventory space small and the prevalence of mules is part of their stragety to sell new character slots. I agree that inventory management needs to be addressed, and even that it would be nice for crafting bags to be available to all.
However, your polled is biased, and as such, I completely disregarded any relevance it may have. There are more tactful ways to discuss issues. Furthermore, you claims that anyone who sides one way is an elitist that is out of touch with the gaming community is absurd and completely skews you as someone incapable of a rational thought or grown-up discussion.
Your jumbling everything together. Relax a bit! Lol.
When you see ESO+ member or not an ESO+ member for two separate options, it means the same thing.
It serves solely to distinguish those who are Subbed to those who aren't. I did this because I took an educated guess that most Subs were going to say yes. The second option allows Non-Subs to be recognized as well for picking Yes. Because of this, you can tell how many Subs compared to non-Subs chose Yes, an interesting thing to look at.
Please, if you're going to continue to be as harsh and childish as possible, just send me PMs instead. Would rather not we cause this entire thread to be us arguing.
so now your the victim? lol
you had no issue arguing with me when i told you it was biased.2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should remain freely accessible to ESO+ members, but also be put up for sale on the Crown Store. Similar to DLC.Doncellius wrote: »Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Doncellius wrote: »Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Lol, I just saw this in someone else's reply...
"The results of this poll will determine just how out of touch/elitist "sub vs non-sub" these forums are compared to the actual in-game playerbase. Judging from the vMA completion poll, my guess is the first option will be the most popular. We shall see"
Guess it was part of the OP and you edited it out @Doncellius. So, having a grown-up understanding of business and a real world expectation that a company must earn profits makes gamers elitist? Can't help but sit in awe at the forums and the ignorance and entitlement of some posters.
But, just for arguments sake, lets say players agree with you that crafting bags should be put up for sale in the crown store, and ZOS lists them for 5k tel var stones, or more. I can only imagine you would then whine they are too expensive and call ZOS greedy and call out anyone who pays for it as an elitist pay-to-win expletive.
Edited what out? I usually only edit for spelling mistakes since it is more difficult to see typos when typing from an iPhone.
Sorry to ruin your entire point, but you should go to the first page. It's one of the first comments
EDIT: You're awefully eager to shoot me down for some reason. Smh. You named yourself after advice you need to take for yourself. You could have easily answered the unbiased poll and stated your opinion. Instead, you attack me as much as you can, without even reading through previous comments.
Fair enough, I see it is a reply in a lower post. Forgive me for not reading thru all of your BS. It is an ignorant post. Guess I am programmed to overlook non-sense.
As for your claim that your poll is unbiased... If it were unbiased, you would not have the caveat in the first couple options that "I am an ESO+ Member". This implies that only a subscriber would agree with this. In reality, I am sure most mature adults agree with it, even if not subscribers; if not agree with it or like it, then certainly understand it. ZOS is a company and they must make money. There is nothing wrong with offering subs a quality perk, and in MMOs it is hard to offer perks that do not fringe upon P2W; crafting bags are a reasonable offer to subs.
Look, I agree that inventory management in this game is a nightmare. The tendency for ZOS to make sets BoP in recent DLCs has certainly compounded the problem since we are now forced to horde as we never know when sets will get buffed or nerfed and, because the RNG rates in this game are atrocious, we cannot be assured we can replace said sets in a reasonable time-frame. The devs really need to do something about the BoP system and inventory management as a whole. As is, most players are forced to create mules, but those of use that actively play all our characters cannot rely on mules. I am forced to create a guild just to use as a personal bank for an extra 500 slots. Who knows, maybe keeping inventory space small and the prevalence of mules is part of their stragety to sell new character slots. I agree that inventory management needs to be addressed, and even that it would be nice for crafting bags to be available to all.
However, your polled is biased, and as such, I completely disregarded any relevance it may have. There are more tactful ways to discuss issues. Furthermore, you claims that anyone who sides one way is an elitist that is out of touch with the gaming community is absurd and completely skews you as someone incapable of a rational thought or grown-up discussion.
Your jumbling everything together. Relax a bit! Lol.
When you see ESO+ member or not an ESO+ member for two separate options, it means the same thing.
It serves solely to distinguish those who are Subbed to those who aren't. I did this because I took an educated guess that most Subs were going to say yes. The second option allows Non-Subs to be recognized as well for picking Yes. Because of this, you can tell how many Subs compared to non-Subs chose Yes, an interesting thing to look at.
This all doesn't matter. poll answers should have been:
1. Yes
2. No
3. i don't mind
Maybe it's interesting whether the guys are subbed or not, but i can choose everything i want. Even if it#s the false option. So it's just a useless and maybe even false information.
People feel strongly on this topic. You won't get many of the trolls picking random answers. When I created this thread, it served as a poll version of the discussion on this topic (other thread). The toxicity coming from this thread makes me ashamed to have joined these forums, which are unbelievably detatched from the actual in-game opinions right now.
Wish I could lock this thread and pretend I hadn't heard about Crafting Bags yet.Edited by Vaoh on April 24, 2016 12:05PM1 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should remain freely accessible to ESO+ members, but also be put up for sale on the Crown Store. Similar to DLC.LOL. Look at how many ESO+ members are "NO! IT"S MINE!"
It makes me think back to how many discussions there have been about how ESO+ isn't worth it and how many people defended it, saying it's a good value.What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!3 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am an ESO+ member)Right now there is literally no reason to sub. Its cheaper to just buy the DLC as it comes out. Its a very smart move and will gain them 1000s of new subscribers. Including my guess a LOT of people posting here who dont currently sub.3 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should remain freely accessible to ESO+ members, but also be put up for sale on the Crown Store. Similar to DLC.Doncellius wrote: »Point 1.... your poll is badly written and exceptionally biased... you want a genuine response to support your argument make it more neutral.
Point 2..... It's nothing to do with being able to give ZoS money via a one off microtransaction in the crown store. It's HOW ZoS gets the money thats important here...
Microtrasactions are neither consistent nor forecast-able. ZoS neds a forecast-able & reliable revenue stream (Via Subs) to be able to talk to shareholders etc about future development etc.
Many people will have dropped subs when the game went B2P.... they need to get more people back on a regular pay plan so they can demonstrate the project has future sustainability to the money men and keep the development going.
That's why this is sub only, and why it will likely stay that way.
Poll isn't biased. Perhaps you dislike how I separated (in a 100% impartial way) Subs and Non-Subs for supporting the current plan? You don't have to like my own (popular in-game rather than forums) opinion.
A Crafting Bag doesn't get people thinking "Wow, ZOS really did it! I'm sooooo paying $15 a month now despite that I already paid for multiple DLCs full price! Love these guys!"
People get frustrated that such a long-time, highly requested feature is being placed behind a Sub fee. Not happy. Only the minority of Subs are happy, and even many of them can see the unfairness despite it benefitting them.
I'll make this very simple for you, as it's already been mentioned many time sin this thread.
If the poll was unbiased then the language used should be neutral & in no way convey the opinion of the person creating the poll.
When you read your poll, you know exactly what your opinion is....language used and the structure is designed entirely to support and skew in favour of your own opinion.
That's the very definition of biased.
I don't blame you for it.... you have an opinion that you're totally entitled to.... just don't try and defend it as if you have created a totally neutral poll, and then also portray a tiny snapshot of a couple of hundred people as any kind of fact.
Back to the subject in hand though.... I have an experience which is the opposite to yours..... most people I speak to understand the WHY of this, rather than just feeling aggrieved because of their own situation & claiming unfairness. I know a LOT of people who are either now staying subbed, or starting up.
Neither you nor I have any way of seeing the data ZoS has on their sub rates.... how this impacts the future development of the game (Predictable & forecastable revenue streams - see my earlier post), nor any way to accurately predict & forecast the likely uptake of subs after this. So TBH it's all a bit moot... we should just wait & see the patch notes on monday
I hope for ZOS's sake you aren't kidding. Console is not taking it as gracefully as those you have spoken to on PC seem to. The best way I can sum up reaction on PS4 (and I quote numerous times) is "Wtf. But I already bought DLC I'm not subbing for that! [cussing]"1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am not an ESO+ member)Why split up the "yes" answers into two groups and not the "no" answers ?1 -
Shader_Shibes✭✭✭✭✭
✭Crafting Bags should remain freely accessible to ESO+ members, but also be put up for sale on the Crown Store. Similar to DLC.They should be purchasable also.2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should remain freely accessible to ESO+ members, but also be put up for sale on the Crown Store. Similar to DLC.Doncellius wrote: »Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Doncellius wrote: »Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Lol, I just saw this in someone else's reply...
"The results of this poll will determine just how out of touch/elitist "sub vs non-sub" these forums are compared to the actual in-game playerbase. Judging from the vMA completion poll, my guess is the first option will be the most popular. We shall see"
Guess it was part of the OP and you edited it out @Doncellius. So, having a grown-up understanding of business and a real world expectation that a company must earn profits makes gamers elitist? Can't help but sit in awe at the forums and the ignorance and entitlement of some posters.
But, just for arguments sake, lets say players agree with you that crafting bags should be put up for sale in the crown store, and ZOS lists them for 5k tel var stones, or more. I can only imagine you would then whine they are too expensive and call ZOS greedy and call out anyone who pays for it as an elitist pay-to-win expletive.
Edited what out? I usually only edit for spelling mistakes since it is more difficult to see typos when typing from an iPhone.
Sorry to ruin your entire point, but you should go to the first page. It's one of the first comments
EDIT: You're awefully eager to shoot me down for some reason. Smh. You named yourself after advice you need to take for yourself. You could have easily answered the unbiased poll and stated your opinion. Instead, you attack me as much as you can, without even reading through previous comments.
Fair enough, I see it is a reply in a lower post. Forgive me for not reading thru all of your BS. It is an ignorant post. Guess I am programmed to overlook non-sense.
As for your claim that your poll is unbiased... If it were unbiased, you would not have the caveat in the first couple options that "I am an ESO+ Member". This implies that only a subscriber would agree with this. In reality, I am sure most mature adults agree with it, even if not subscribers; if not agree with it or like it, then certainly understand it. ZOS is a company and they must make money. There is nothing wrong with offering subs a quality perk, and in MMOs it is hard to offer perks that do not fringe upon P2W; crafting bags are a reasonable offer to subs.
Look, I agree that inventory management in this game is a nightmare. The tendency for ZOS to make sets BoP in recent DLCs has certainly compounded the problem since we are now forced to horde as we never know when sets will get buffed or nerfed and, because the RNG rates in this game are atrocious, we cannot be assured we can replace said sets in a reasonable time-frame. The devs really need to do something about the BoP system and inventory management as a whole. As is, most players are forced to create mules, but those of use that actively play all our characters cannot rely on mules. I am forced to create a guild just to use as a personal bank for an extra 500 slots. Who knows, maybe keeping inventory space small and the prevalence of mules is part of their stragety to sell new character slots. I agree that inventory management needs to be addressed, and even that it would be nice for crafting bags to be available to all.
However, your polled is biased, and as such, I completely disregarded any relevance it may have. There are more tactful ways to discuss issues. Furthermore, you claims that anyone who sides one way is an elitist that is out of touch with the gaming community is absurd and completely skews you as someone incapable of a rational thought or grown-up discussion.
Your jumbling everything together. Relax a bit! Lol.
When you see ESO+ member or not an ESO+ member for two separate options, it means the same thing.
It serves solely to distinguish those who are Subbed to those who aren't. I did this because I took an educated guess that most Subs were going to say yes. The second option allows Non-Subs to be recognized as well for picking Yes. Because of this, you can tell how many Subs compared to non-Subs chose Yes, an interesting thing to look at.
Please, if you're going to continue to be as harsh and childish as possible, just send me PMs instead. Would rather not we cause this entire thread to be us arguing.
so now your the victim? lol
you had no issue arguing with me when i told you it was biased.
No, it's called being rational. Agreeing to disagree, and moving on with your life. Do you actually want to argue 24/7 on the forums? I don't, since nothing comes from it.0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am an ESO+ member)When it comes to a reasonable price, I would suggest 1500-2000 crowns. Players, who would buy this bag would still buy the DLC content, so this should not be unreasonably overpriced. And it would avoid the bad feeling, those would have who bought all DLC content so far, would have to subcribe to get the bag and see their investment into the DLCs as basically lost.
That's not enough, it's only ~ 1 month of subscription. i think they want it as an long-term-tool to generate money. So maybe make it cost around 1 year of subscription. Remember...the championsystem in it's current state is a progression system for the next 15 years and they need money the whole time. Related to this 18k Crowns (equals 1 year subscription) is pretty cheap.
See, that my suggestion would be a limited time offer - for those, who want to stick with the "I am buying DLC content" concept and have invested into this already. Don't forget that the effective payment for a subscription minus the crowns you get is just about 1.50€ per month - so my suggested price is the equivalent to about a year of subscription - and this group will continue to buy DLCs as well - out of their own wallets, not from crown allotments like a subscriber does ít. So 1500-2000 crowns is reasonable. And it would be just available on summer sale and after that time exclusive to subscribers.
As i already said somewhere...for this low price i (and many others) would just take it and unsubscribe. Not the best way to generate money.Edited by Destruent on April 24, 2016 12:10PMNoobplar2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should remain freely accessible to ESO+ members, but also be put up for sale on the Crown Store. Similar to DLC.LOL. Look at how many ESO+ members are "NO! IT"S MINE!"
It makes me think back to how many discussions there have been about how ESO+ isn't worth it and how many people defended it, saying it's a good value.
Crafting Bags are nearly in their hands and their hands exclusively. It brings out the worst in people.
EA would be proud of ZOS for this decision.2 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am an ESO+ member)Doncellius wrote: »Doncellius wrote: »Point 1.... your poll is badly written and exceptionally biased... you want a genuine response to support your argument make it more neutral.
Point 2..... It's nothing to do with being able to give ZoS money via a one off microtransaction in the crown store. It's HOW ZoS gets the money thats important here...
Microtrasactions are neither consistent nor forecast-able. ZoS neds a forecast-able & reliable revenue stream (Via Subs) to be able to talk to shareholders etc about future development etc.
Many people will have dropped subs when the game went B2P.... they need to get more people back on a regular pay plan so they can demonstrate the project has future sustainability to the money men and keep the development going.
That's why this is sub only, and why it will likely stay that way.
Poll isn't biased. Perhaps you dislike how I separated (in a 100% impartial way) Subs and Non-Subs for supporting the current plan? You don't have to like my own (popular in-game rather than forums) opinion.
A Crafting Bag doesn't get people thinking "Wow, ZOS really did it! I'm sooooo paying $15 a month now despite that I already paid for multiple DLCs full price! Love these guys!"
People get frustrated that such a long-time, highly requested feature is being placed behind a Sub fee. Not happy. Only the minority of Subs are happy, and even many of them can see the unfairness despite it benefitting them.
I'll make this very simple for you, as it's already been mentioned many time sin this thread.
If the poll was unbiased then the language used should be neutral & in no way convey the opinion of the person creating the poll.
When you read your poll, you know exactly what your opinion is....language used and the structure is designed entirely to support and skew in favour of your own opinion.
That's the very definition of biased.
I don't blame you for it.... you have an opinion that you're totally entitled to.... just don't try and defend it as if you have created a totally neutral poll, and then also portray a tiny snapshot of a couple of hundred people as any kind of fact.
Back to the subject in hand though.... I have an experience which is the opposite to yours..... most people I speak to understand the WHY of this, rather than just feeling aggrieved because of their own situation & claiming unfairness. I know a LOT of people who are either now staying subbed, or starting up.
Neither you nor I have any way of seeing the data ZoS has on their sub rates.... how this impacts the future development of the game (Predictable & forecastable revenue streams - see my earlier post), nor any way to accurately predict & forecast the likely uptake of subs after this. So TBH it's all a bit moot... we should just wait & see the patch notes on monday
I hope for ZOS's sake you aren't kidding. Console is not taking it as gracefully as those you have spoken to on PC seem to. The best way I can sum up reaction on PS4 (and I quote numerous times) is "Wtf. But I already bought DLC I'm not subbing for that! [cussing]"
Then dont sub. What is the problem? If you dont care about the bag then dont sub. Why toss a fit about it?4 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should remain freely accessible to ESO+ members, but also be put up for sale on the Crown Store. Similar to DLC.Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Players, who would buy this bag would still buy the DLC content, so this should not be unreasonably overpriced. And it would avoid the bad feeling, those would have who bought all DLC content so far, to basically have to subscribe to get the bag and with it their investment into DLCs is basically lost. I myself have bought Orsinium and IC - so I have basically wasted crowns on this content, because I am a subscriber now.
From a corporate financials perspective:
1. There is no guarantee that those who will buy the crafting bags, if offered as a crown store purchase, will also buy the DLCs.
2. Past transactions have no bearing on future transactions. Whether you subbed to get access to the DLCs and used your crowns to buy vanity stuff, subbed for months and used accumulated crowns to buy the DLCs, or never subbed and bought the DLCs outright is irrelevant as you likely broke even if you subbed to buy or bought outright. This has no bearing on future transactions. If one of the perks of subbing is continued access to DLCs without buying them, then you have incentive to start subbing now as you will get access to DB and all other future DLCs as well as get the shiny new crafting bag. We cannot cry over spilled mill. No one can predict the future and therefore no one can anticipate who best to spend our hard earned money. However, we have known since well before TG DLC that crafting bags were coming and that they would be a ESO+ perk only, so you certainly could have saved money on the TG purchase.
Look, I agree that inventory management is a nightmare, and that everyone will want crafting bags. I want them, and am willing to sub to get them. Regardless, it is not unfair for a profit based company to offer a tangible and desirable perk as an incentive for subscriptions. These are a convenience item and do not qualify as P2W, as it would be a serious foul if subs got a PvE and/or PvP advantage. Simply, either you want the bags enough to sub, or you don't (or cannot afford them). Either way, ZOS has the right to make such an item sub only. No forum crusade will change it.
My bad - that I think in terms of honor and fairness as a business owner in real life. I am not going to sign up for capitalism, but I think that a business should be honorable, while still being profitable. Customer relations are largely underestimated in your point of view. In a world of social media, a company has to care more than in the past for it's reputation and having a good reputation brings in new customers, because players are actually liking the company running the game and suggest it to their friends. This is a huge difference between ESO and EVE for example. While the relation of players to ZOS is broken, EVE has a real bond with their player-base. That game will never go down the drain, because players would even help out of their own wallets, if required - but they are a healthy company, where employees have fun working for the company and players are happy subscribers, they do charity and they support science with projects - project discovery is an ingame activity, which actually helps science in the field of Bioinformatics - it is a win-win situation for many areas, this company will prosper and I as a player do not have to fear, that EVE would not be there in 10 or 20 years - it will be,. whereas ESO will be gone.Edited by Lysette on April 24, 2016 12:15PM1 -
Crafting Bags should remain freely accessible to ESO+ members, but also be put up for sale on the Crown Store. Similar to DLC.I've done this far w/o crafting bags so i don't really need it. Not for a monthly fee. I would pay say 2500-3000 crowns for an unlock but otherwise no thank you.2 -
Buffler✭✭✭✭✭
✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am an ESO+ member)Doncellius wrote: »Doncellius wrote: »Point 1.... your poll is badly written and exceptionally biased... you want a genuine response to support your argument make it more neutral.
Point 2..... It's nothing to do with being able to give ZoS money via a one off microtransaction in the crown store. It's HOW ZoS gets the money thats important here...
Microtrasactions are neither consistent nor forecast-able. ZoS neds a forecast-able & reliable revenue stream (Via Subs) to be able to talk to shareholders etc about future development etc.
Many people will have dropped subs when the game went B2P.... they need to get more people back on a regular pay plan so they can demonstrate the project has future sustainability to the money men and keep the development going.
That's why this is sub only, and why it will likely stay that way.
Poll isn't biased. Perhaps you dislike how I separated (in a 100% impartial way) Subs and Non-Subs for supporting the current plan? You don't have to like my own (popular in-game rather than forums) opinion.
A Crafting Bag doesn't get people thinking "Wow, ZOS really did it! I'm sooooo paying $15 a month now despite that I already paid for multiple DLCs full price! Love these guys!"
People get frustrated that such a long-time, highly requested feature is being placed behind a Sub fee. Not happy. Only the minority of Subs are happy, and even many of them can see the unfairness despite it benefitting them.
I'll make this very simple for you, as it's already been mentioned many time sin this thread.
If the poll was unbiased then the language used should be neutral & in no way convey the opinion of the person creating the poll.
When you read your poll, you know exactly what your opinion is....language used and the structure is designed entirely to support and skew in favour of your own opinion.
That's the very definition of biased.
I don't blame you for it.... you have an opinion that you're totally entitled to.... just don't try and defend it as if you have created a totally neutral poll, and then also portray a tiny snapshot of a couple of hundred people as any kind of fact.
Back to the subject in hand though.... I have an experience which is the opposite to yours..... most people I speak to understand the WHY of this, rather than just feeling aggrieved because of their own situation & claiming unfairness. I know a LOT of people who are either now staying subbed, or starting up.
Neither you nor I have any way of seeing the data ZoS has on their sub rates.... how this impacts the future development of the game (Predictable & forecastable revenue streams - see my earlier post), nor any way to accurately predict & forecast the likely uptake of subs after this. So TBH it's all a bit moot... we should just wait & see the patch notes on monday
I hope for ZOS's sake you aren't kidding. Console is not taking it as gracefully as those you have spoken to on PC seem to. The best way I can sum up reaction on PS4 (and I quote numerous times) is "Wtf. But I already bought DLC I'm not subbing for that! [cussing]"
Im on console and bought all DLC's until TG where i decided to begin subbing. Why? To support the game I love playing.2 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am an ESO+ member)Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »Players, who would buy this bag would still buy the DLC content, so this should not be unreasonably overpriced. And it would avoid the bad feeling, those would have who bought all DLC content so far, to basically have to subscribe to get the bag and with it their investment into DLCs is basically lost. I myself have bought Orsinium and IC - so I have basically wasted crowns on this content, because I am a subscriber now.
From a corporate financials perspective:
1. There is no guarantee that those who will buy the crafting bags, if offered as a crown store purchase, will also buy the DLCs.
2. Past transactions have no bearing on future transactions. Whether you subbed to get access to the DLCs and used your crowns to buy vanity stuff, subbed for months and used accumulated crowns to buy the DLCs, or never subbed and bought the DLCs outright is irrelevant as you likely broke even if you subbed to buy or bought outright. This has no bearing on future transactions. If one of the perks of subbing is continued access to DLCs without buying them, then you have incentive to start subbing now as you will get access to DB and all other future DLCs as well as get the shiny new crafting bag. We cannot cry over spilled mill. No one can predict the future and therefore no one can anticipate who best to spend our hard earned money. However, we have known since well before TG DLC that crafting bags were coming and that they would be a ESO+ perk only, so you certainly could have saved money on the TG purchase.
Look, I agree that inventory management is a nightmare, and that everyone will want crafting bags. I want them, and am willing to sub to get them. Regardless, it is not unfair for a profit based company to offer a tangible and desirable perk as an incentive for subscriptions. These are a convenience item and do not qualify as P2W, as it would be a serious foul if subs got a PvE and/or PvP advantage. Simply, either you want the bags enough to sub, or you don't (or cannot afford them). Either way, ZOS has the right to make such an item sub only. No forum crusade will change it.
My bad - that I think in terms of honor and fairness as a business owner in real life. I am not going to sign up for capitalism, but I think that a business should be honorable, while still being profitable. Customer relations are largely underestimated in your point of view. In a world of social media, a company has to care more than in the past for it's reputation and having a good reputation brings in new costumers, because players are actually liking the company running the game and suggest it to their friends. This is a huge difference between ESO and EVE for example. While the relation of players to ZOS is broken, EVE has a real bond with their player-base. That game will never go down the drain, because players would even help out of their own wallets, if required - but they are a healthy company, where employees have fun working for the company and players are happy subscribers, they do charity and they support science with projects - project discovery is an ingame activity, which actually helps science in the field of Bioinformatics - it is a win-win situation for many areas, this company will prosper and I as a player do not have to fear, that EVE would not be there in 10 or 20 years - it will be,. whereas ESO will be gone.
I keep hearing you disparage ZOS while touting EVE as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Makes me scratch my head wonder why you are here not there? Could it be EVE costs money and ESO is free? Fact is nothing changes for you or anyone who choses not to sub. Your game is the exact same as it is now. ESo subs get a perk of not having to manage crafting inventory so much.
It has nothing to do with honor. You say you arent signed up for capitalism? What do you think ZOS is? A charity?4 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should remain freely accessible to ESO+ members, but also be put up for sale on the Crown Store. Similar to DLC.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Why split up the "yes" answers into two groups and not the "no" answers ?
Good point!
0 -
Logicbomb00✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am an ESO+ member)no poll result ^^ weird. ESO+ ONLY FOR LIFE!!Edited by Logicbomb00 on April 24, 2016 12:19PM0
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NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should remain freely accessible to ESO+ members, but also be put up for sale on the Crown Store. Similar to DLC.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Do you guys seriously think they will give up $15 a month to sell a crafting bag for a measly 1000 crowns? Give me a break. You can panhandle $15 a month.
Well it's not giving up getting anything if portions of the community dislike the bags being locked behind ESO+.
It's either selling a crafting bag or making no more money....I think that's the rest of the conversation as ppl who don't sub....don't want to sub.
Ppl who do, will keep subbing
But ppl who want the bag want to buy it cause even if it's 1500 crowns or 3000 crowns per bag type, it's similar to a sub in price to add items. 1500 to have it and add, in-sub and all ur stuff is still in the bag but I can't add more to it.
Makes sense to just sale access based on this-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5012 -
Refuse2GrowUp✭✭✭✭✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am an ESO+ member)And it would be just available on summer sale and after that time exclusive to subscribers.
@Lysette
I think the one thing that would keep ZOS from making it an outright crown store purchase is the continued access to the crafting bags. I am sure they want to ensure the continued revenue stream by ensuring people must continue their subs to keep access to the bag. A direct c.store purchase would bypass this.
Maybe a more suitable alternative would be to offer anyone already owning a DLC a months free sub for each DLC already owned, so if you own IC and TG you would get two months free sub. This would serve to help both incentivize (made up word) and compensate those who have already bought the DLCs as well as sort of market the crafting bags as once you have them I doubt you would want to lose them and would therefore continue your sub. Lots of companies offer a free limited time subscription to temp you into maintaining that sub...this may be ZOS chance to do something similar.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Edited by Refuse2GrowUp on April 24, 2016 12:38PMPS4 NA Server
CP160 DK Firemage
CP160 StamSorc
CP160 Templar Healer
CP160 Stam NB
CP160 Magica Sorc
Cp160 Stamplar
CP160 Magicka NB
CP160 DK Tank
CP160 Stam DK
CP160 Mag Templar
CP160 Blazing Shield Templar
EP Loyalist1 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Crafting Bags should stay ESO+ only. It should not be available for purchase from the Crown Store. (I am an ESO+ member)NewBlacksmurf wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Do you guys seriously think they will give up $15 a month to sell a crafting bag for a measly 1000 crowns? Give me a break. You can panhandle $15 a month.
Well it's not giving up getting anything if portions of the community dislike the bags being locked behind ESO+.
It's either selling a crafting bag or making no more money....I think that's the rest of the conversation as ppl who don't sub....don't want to sub.
Ppl who do, will keep subbing
But ppl who want the bag want to buy it cause even if it's 1500 crowns or 3000 crowns per bag type, it's similar to a sub in price to add items. 1500 to have it and add, in-sub and all ur stuff is still in the bag but I can't add more to it.
Makes sense to just sale access based on this
Again $15 every month forever or less than the cost of one month and no more money coming in. Which one do you think they will chose? If you want the bag its simple pay a sub.Edited by jamesharv2005ub17_ESO on April 24, 2016 12:21PM2