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Alternatives to nerfing vWGT, vICP and vCOA
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LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Clarkieson wrote: »I completely disagree with the content being too hard.
Helped a 60+ year old lady through VWGT this evening, she has bad thimbs too. Now she has a molag kena 2 piece set. There goes a happy lady, and why not? She was determined to learn and give the dungeon a real go.
Put some people to real shame.
People should feel ashamed for failing (or not wanting to put effort in) a dungeon in a video game ?
Really ? I mean... REALLY ???
Its just a team effort. For example, lets imagine you joined a local soccer team, that just plays for fun and obviously not going for world cup. But still, when you play with them, you will be expected to follow the rules, and not just do random things, like throwing the ball with your hands, just cause you like that more, or dancing.
Sure.
But if I like to dance and not to soccer, and join a dancing company instead of a soccer team, I don't have to feel ashamed.
Point being, people who don't *want* to run a dungeon don't have to feel ashamed about it.
That said, I also agree that people who choose NOT to play and practice soccer shouldn't ask for soccer to be nerfed.
But again, in this case, it's not players asking for soccer to be nerfed, it's ZOS wanting more people to play soccer instead of ballroom dancing.
Yeah, so why people who dont like the content wont play another game instead of screwing up the game for everyone else?
If you like dancing instead of soccer, you will join a dancing club instead of writing a ton of petitions to add dances to soccer rules, right?Edited by LadyNalcarya on April 24, 2016 9:44AMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »All I keep hearing is BiS.
1. you are a min/maxer and have no problems in those dungeons whatsoever
2. you are a casual and cannot complete
Who said that casuals NEED BiS gear? Or that they should have that gear more available to them?
Some of the best builds include craftable armor and weapons and purchasable jewlery.
Which is why casuals / non min-maxers don't bother running the dungeons.
Which is what ZOS (not players : ZOS ) wants to change.
If they wanted to change it, they should add more user-friendly loot system. Since 100s of runs to get a set of gear is not encouraging.
And also they need to encourgae grouping and helping new players, since even with nerfs pugs will die to mechanics anyway.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »Yeah, so why people who dont like the content wont play another game instead of screwing up the game for everyone else?
If you like dancing instead of soccer, you will join a dancing club instead of writing a ton of petitions to add dances to soccer rules, right?
See how your interests and ZOS' interests diverge at this point ?
That's the very exact crossroads.
You would like to keep soccer dance-free (because that's how you like it and that's fine) so you'd like dancers to go elsewhere.
Problem is, players leaving for another game is not in ZOS' interest.
Which is why they choose to make soccer dancer-friendlier.
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LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »Yeah, so why people who dont like the content wont play another game instead of screwing up the game for everyone else?
If you like dancing instead of soccer, you will join a dancing club instead of writing a ton of petitions to add dances to soccer rules, right?
See how your interests and ZOS' interests diverge at this point ?
That's the very exact crossroads.
You would like to keep soccer dance-free (because that's how you like it and that's fine) so you'd like dancers to go elsewhere.
Problem is, players leaving for another game is not in ZOS' interest.
Which is why they choose to make soccer dancer-friendlier.
Come on, Zos is no Big Brother or a pantheon of gods.
All your arguments are based on "Zos knows better".
You must be either very naive or just trolling. Nothing can I say about this, you just dont wanna listen.
P.S. If youre that sure that Zos knwos better, explain me teh situation with female meshes I linked earlier, from financial standpoint. Please. And how screwed up meshes can help them to sell more costumes.Edited by LadyNalcarya on April 24, 2016 9:57AMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU3 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »Come on, Zos is no Big Brother or a pantheon of gods.
All your arguments are based on "Zos knows better".
You must be either very naive or just trolling. Nothing can I say about this, you just dont wanna listen.
P.S. If youre that sure that Zos knwos better, explain me teh situation with female meshes I linked earlier, from financial standpoint. Please.
It not about ZOS knowing better or not. It's about ZOS being the decision maker (and having more information about player behaviour than we have. And having a different goal than us players). That's the reality.
(I told you already I have no opinion about the mesh thing).
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on April 24, 2016 10:00AM0 -
boundsy88✭✭✭My friend said he was pugging WGT during the pledge yesterday and said the other dps he was with was literally weaving entropy as his main dps..... its people like this why they are nerfing it, just generally crap mindless players (not gonna sugar coat it).
With no new dungeons coming in DB, what small group instances are suppose to be challenging us? (dont say trials, as im not talking about large group instances)3 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »Come on, Zos is no Big Brother or a pantheon of gods.
All your arguments are based on "Zos knows better".
You must be either very naive or just trolling. Nothing can I say about this, you just dont wanna listen.
P.S. If youre that sure that Zos knwos better, explain me teh situation with female meshes I linked earlier, from financial standpoint. Please.
It not about ZOS knowing better or not. It's about ZOS being the decision maker (and having more information about player behaviour than we have. And having a different goal than us players). That's the reality.
(I told you already I have no opinion about the mesh thing).
Their main goal is to make money. They wont be able to do anything without steady income.
Excluding a part of playerbase is not a good financial decision. Since hardcore players pay for dlcs (to have up to date gear) and often for the subscription and crown store scrolls/horse lessons/whatver for alts...
They screw up roleplayers/casuals as well, with buggy meshes on female motifs/costumes, which proves that they might be not very good at making decisions.
And there's more than costumes, but you ignore all arguments so blatantly, that there's no reason to writre about it.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »Excluding a part of playerbase is not a good financial decision.
EVERY decision is excluding a part of the potential customer base.
If you decide to sell a pink product, you're excluding all the customers who wanted it blue and not pink. But since you can't produce both, you make a choice.
Whether that decision is good or bad financially, you don't have this info to judge. Neither do I.
When you say "hardcore players pay for dlcs (to have up to date gear) and often for the subscription and crown store scrolls/horse lessons/whatver for alts..." you make a pure assumption. You simply have no clue as to IF and HOW player skills and crown store expenses are correlated.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on April 24, 2016 10:18AM0 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »Excluding a part of playerbase is not a good financial decision.
EVERY decision is excluding a part of the potential customer base.
If you decide to sell a pink product, you're excluding all the customers who wanted it blue and not pink. But since you can't produce both, you make a choice.
Whether that decision is good or bad financially, you don't have this info to judge. Neither do I.
But if the company was selling pink products and yellow products, and then they suddenly decide to remove all yellow products, they will lose their existing customers, not just potential ones.. Thats the thing. And since ESO is an mmo, they need to maintain a certain amount of paying customers to survive.
Hardcore players always strive for best gear (so they need dlcs), they want to level alts faster (=horse books/exp scrolls/bag space), etc. So its not a part of playerbase they would want to lose...
Also, IC dlc is not casual friendly because it consists of ganking grounds and enourmous amounts of farming in dungeons.
Also, Zos is known for making not very thought-out decisions, like cutting corners on their crown store stuff or nerfing breath of life because certain streamer was QQing. Was that nerf catering to casuals, or to the majory of playerbase? No, it was based on QQ of vocal minority.
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU1 -
Clarkieson✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Clarkieson wrote: »I completely disagree with the content being too hard.
Helped a 60+ year old lady through VWGT this evening, she has bad thimbs too. Now she has a molag kena 2 piece set. There goes a happy lady, and why not? She was determined to learn and give the dungeon a real go.
Put some people to real shame.
People should feel ashamed for failing (or not wanting to put effort in) a dungeon in a video game ?
Really ? I mean... REALLY ???
If you dont want to put the effort in, you are free go and play another game.
Just because a person cant be bothered does not mean an entire section of a game should be nerfed or handed on a plate to people.
The game is there to be played, if you cannot do it then practice. If you do not want to practice please dont come here crying nerf. There are people who want to learn and want to practice.3 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Clarkieson wrote: »If you dont want to put the effort in, you are free go and play another game.
Sure. But that's exactly what ZOS doesn't want me to do.
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Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Clarkieson wrote: »If you dont want to put the effort in, you are free go and play another game.
Sure. But that's exactly what ZOS doesn't want me to do.
Hm...ok...you are right with this. ZOS doesn't want anyone to put effort into the game.Noobplar1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Clarkieson wrote: »If you dont want to put the effort in, you are free go and play another game.
Sure. But that's exactly what ZOS doesn't want me to do.
Hm...ok...you are right with this. ZOS doesn't want anyone to put effort into the game.
More precisely, ZOS doesn't want to lose the players who do not consider making efforts fun. At the risk of losing players who enjoy and want difficult content.
Every single move from ZOS in the last months has been pointing in that direction : they're increasingly targeting the "weaker" and solo players.
- They gave up on PvPvE (which is hard content) : no PvP justice system
- They nerfed pretty much everything to the ground and continue to do so
- Last 3 DLC (I include DB) are targeted towards solo play and exploration, not difficult gameplay (Two exceptions being MoL and MSA)
- All content can be scaled down to very easy
- All content is accessible to beginner players (scaling system).
- Progression is increasingly meaningless (VR removal, CP cap, scaling everywhere)
- New definition and positioning of the game ("Not a MMORPG, more like an "online RPG").
Do you really need more indicators ?
I enjoy the game "easy way" thus it's fine by me, but if I was looking for competition, group play and challenge, I'd look for another game right now.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on April 24, 2016 11:57AM0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭At the same time they introduced 4 sets only usuable in structured raid situations for it's full potential and created two types of content normal or even above average players will never enjoy. They will also upscale SO and i think AA/HRC/vDSA will follow with the next DLCs. Why should they do this if they don't care about good players at all?Noobplar0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭At the same time they introduced 4 sets only usuable in structured raid situations for it's full potential and created two types of content normal or even above average players will never enjoy. They will also upscale SO and i think AA/HRC/vDSA will follow with the next DLCs. Why should they do this if they don't care about good players at all?
Sure, they're doing that too. But that looks more like recycling of old content than new content. To me it looks like the absolute minimum to do for the elite part of the playerbase, and nothing more.
But I could be wrong about their intentions. That's all my interpretation.0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »At the same time they introduced 4 sets only usuable in structured raid situations for it's full potential and created two types of content normal or even above average players will never enjoy. They will also upscale SO and i think AA/HRC/vDSA will follow with the next DLCs. Why should they do this if they don't care about good players at all?
Sure, they're doing that too. But that looks more like recycling of old content than new content. To me it looks like the absolute minimum to do for the elite part of the playerbase, and nothing more.
But I could be wrong about their intentions. That's all my interpretation.
You should maybe start thinking/writing/talking abour your own intentions/idees/thoughts about the game instead of saying ZOs wants this and so on. This would make this discussion much more enjoyable and realistic . You cannot know what ZOS intends to do, you (and all other players) only see what they do. And they do not do everything right or are able to do everything. But this forum and its discussion are for writing down/telling them our opinion. Not to show them what they are doin...they know this already
Sry for being a bit rude, but all i hear from you is: ZOS may want this and this.Noobplar2 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »At the same time they introduced 4 sets only usuable in structured raid situations for it's full potential and created two types of content normal or even above average players will never enjoy. They will also upscale SO and i think AA/HRC/vDSA will follow with the next DLCs. Why should they do this if they don't care about good players at all?
Sure, they're doing that too. But that looks more like recycling of old content than new content. To me it looks like the absolute minimum to do for the elite part of the playerbase, and nothing more.
But I could be wrong about their intentions. That's all my interpretation.
You should maybe start thinking/writing/talking abour your own intentions/idees/thoughts about the game instead of saying ZOs wants this and so on. This would make this discussion much more enjoyable and realistic . You cannot know what ZOS intends to do, you (and all other players) only see what they do. And they do not do everything right or are able to do everything. But this forum and its discussion are for writing down/telling them our opinion. Not to show them what they are doin...they know this already
Sry for being a bit rude, but all i hear from you is: ZOS may want this and this.
That is because all I read is "Dungeons are nerfed because [insert insult here] casuals whined. Let's have [insert other insult here] casuals shut up and L2P and all will be fine". Which is, again, targeting the wrong target, because [insert final insult here] casuals don't decide anyway.
Besides, I don't see many posts starting with "What I would like is..." but more like "Silly ZOS don't know what they're doing, I know better". That's all I read from you. Not what you would actually like.
And finally, this thread can also be used for talking to each other (which I'm doing right now) and not necessarily to ZOS. Unless you decide what's supposed to be posted or not.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on April 24, 2016 12:48PM0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »At the same time they introduced 4 sets only usuable in structured raid situations for it's full potential and created two types of content normal or even above average players will never enjoy. They will also upscale SO and i think AA/HRC/vDSA will follow with the next DLCs. Why should they do this if they don't care about good players at all?
Sure, they're doing that too. But that looks more like recycling of old content than new content. To me it looks like the absolute minimum to do for the elite part of the playerbase, and nothing more.
But I could be wrong about their intentions. That's all my interpretation.
You should maybe start thinking/writing/talking abour your own intentions/idees/thoughts about the game instead of saying ZOs wants this and so on. This would make this discussion much more enjoyable and realistic . You cannot know what ZOS intends to do, you (and all other players) only see what they do. And they do not do everything right or are able to do everything. But this forum and its discussion are for writing down/telling them our opinion. Not to show them what they are doin...they know this already
Sry for being a bit rude, but all i hear from you is: ZOS may want this and this.
That is because all I read is "Dungeons are nerfed because [insert insult here] casuals whined. Let's have [insert other insult here] casuals shut up and L2P and all will be fine". Which is, again, targeting the wrong target, because [insert final insult here] casuals don't decide anyway.
Besides, I don't see many posts starting with "What I would like is..." but more like "Silly ZOS don't know what they're doing, I know better". That's all I read from you. Not what you would actually like.
Not really, ZOS does not create completion rates, they just see them. If more people learn to play the game and practice dungeons and so completion rates will rise without nerfing the dungeons.
I already stated numerous times what i'd like to have ingame. Conten for ALL kinds of players. Content with high/medium and low difficulty. If you didn't read it, here it is. Atm we have this (ok...not really difficult 4-men content, but i'm ok with it), but this will change when they nerf vWGT/vICP.Noobplar0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Not really, ZOS does not create completion rates, they just see them. If more people learn to play the game and practice dungeons and so completion rates will rise without nerfing the dungeons.
IF people ??? IF people ???
If there's ONE THING you can't change, it's the behaviour and wishes of people.
I don't enjoy those dungeons (even though I beat them numerous times), I don't go there any more, end of story, and you cannot change that no matter what you say or do.
I'll not *force* myself to run those dungeons so that YOU get what you want.
I'm fine with not running them, ZOS isn't fine with me (and many other people) not running them, back to square one : ZOS.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on April 24, 2016 12:56PM0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Not really, ZOS does not create completion rates, they just see them. If more people learn to play the game and practice dungeons and so completion rates will rise without nerfing the dungeons.
IF people ??? IF people ???
If there's ONE THING you can't change, it's the behaviour and wishes of people.
I don't enjoy those dungeons (even though I beat them numerous times), I don't go there any more, end of story, and you cannot change that no matter what you say or do.
I'll not *force* myself to run those dungeons so that YOU get what you want.
I'm fine with not running them, ZOS isn't fine with me (and many other people) not running them, back to square one : ZOS.
ZOS is also fine with terrible RNG-loot-system and well-fitted/defending/reinforced dps-gear.
Sure, i cannot change the people, but ZOS could encourage the people to do so. Actually they are supporting a lazy playstyle.Noobplar3 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Traits are being reworked with this coming update. Maybe we'll have nice surprises, who knows ?
I think they got it that we're not fond of well-fitted and training, among other traits ;-)
Actually I'm quite excited about this. That will make an awful lot of new choices for gear and builds, IF they've done it properly.
And yes, ZOS could encourage learning I guess. The one thing that would encourage me to improve my 15K DPS rotation would be a training dummy...
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on April 24, 2016 1:14PM0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Traits are being reworked with this coming update. Maybe we'll have nice surprises, who knows ?
I think they got it that we're not fond of well-fitted and training, among other traits ;-)
Actually I'm quite excited about this. That will make an awful lot of new choices for gear and builds, IF they've done it properly.
lol...a defending alkosh fire staff will never be usefull...even if defending does a lot of amazing things and is BiS on weapons.Noobplar0 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Clarkieson wrote: »I completely disagree with the content being too hard.
Helped a 60+ year old lady through VWGT this evening, she has bad thimbs too. Now she has a molag kena 2 piece set. There goes a happy lady, and why not? She was determined to learn and give the dungeon a real go.
Put some people to real shame.
People should feel ashamed for failing (or not wanting to put effort in) a dungeon in a video game ?
Really ? I mean... REALLY ???
Its just a team effort. For example, lets imagine you joined a local soccer team, that just plays for fun and obviously not going for world cup. But still, when you play with them, you will be expected to follow the rules, and not just do random things, like throwing the ball with your hands, just cause you like that more, or dancing.
Sure.
But if I like to dance and not to soccer, and join a dancing company instead of a soccer team, I don't have to feel ashamed.
Point being, people who don't *want* to run a dungeon don't have to feel ashamed about it.
That said, I also agree that people who choose NOT to play and practice soccer shouldn't ask for soccer to be nerfed.
But again, in this case, it's not players asking for soccer to be nerfed, it's ZOS wanting more people to play soccer instead of ballroom dancing.
What makes you think that soccer being easier would make more people like soccer?
The people who prefer dancing will keep dancing. They don't care how easy soccer is, they don't like soccer. The people who have found soccer too challenging before due to having to follow some rules will likely still dislike it unless Zeni nerfs it to where it's pretty much dancing. The people who used to like soccer will play it less because it'll become boring; furthermore, since it's the only soccer club in the town they might leave the neighbourhood altogether. In absence of those people it'll be even harder for people who have struggled before to learn the rules as there will be that much less people willing to explain them.
More people will be able to play soccer but that doesn't mean more people will actually play it(granted I might be wrong, we'll have to see how it goes but that's my personal opinion).
Back from the soccer analogy, even if the "casual" players will be able to easily complete those dungeons now I don't see them actually repeatedly running them. If you don't have the dedication to learn current vet IC dungeons, you likely also won't have the dedication to run them 500+ times to get perfect BiS gear. Which leads us back to the question of how is nerfing those dungeons going to profit the game in the long run...3 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
More people will be able to play soccer but that doesn't mean more people will actually play it(granted I might be wrong, we'll have to see how it goes but that's my personal opinion).
You're quite right here, nothing guarantees that the nerf will bring more players into those dungeons.
Still I think it will, because they'll (probably) be puggable via LFG , doable without vocals, etc.. all things pretty compulsory right now (I know some of you testified of them being doable without vocal coordination or with random players or both, but you'll agree that it is far from ideal...)
Wait and see.
I for one will probably start farming them again (Still need my 5th piece of scathing mage...), I'll see then if it's more fun or not.
NB : we can also reverse the reasoning : even if the IC dungeons did NOT get a nerf, good players will eventually get tired of running them again and again - and the need for new dungeons would still be acute.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on April 24, 2016 2:02PM0 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
More people will be able to play soccer but that doesn't mean more people will actually play it(granted I might be wrong, we'll have to see how it goes but that's my personal opinion).
You're quite right here, nothing guarantees that the nerf will bring more players into those dungeons.
Still I think it will, because they'll (probably) be puggable via LFG , doable without vocals, etc.. all things pretty compulsory right now (I know some of you testified of them being doable without vocal coordination or with random players or both, but you'll agree that it is far from ideal...)
Wait and see.
I for one will probably start farming them again (Still need my 5th piece of scathing mage...), I'll see then if it's more fun or not.
...I think I've done ICP and WGT using voicechat like...once. And that wasn't my first nor best run. My speedruns and no death(for WGT, still need it for ICP because Warden's RNG sucks) were without it. Voicechat is FAR from "compulsory" o.O
They also seriously won't become puggable that much though unless ZOS either removes all mechanics or people actually, sorry, l2p at least some. The pug tank I got in ICP a couple days ago who just stood there and took it from Overfiend, light attacking instead of blocking and dying literally in between my 17k heals spam? ...yeah. That place definitely needs one heck of a nerf for people like him to be able to complete it. Perhaps they should cap all incoming damage at 1% hp, maybe that'd cut it -.-
I for one will likely stop running them and you can bet I will stop pugging them. I'm getting tired of the "but I don't wanna learn, just gimme stuff nao because I want it!" attitude.3 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Blackleopardex wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »- People who refuse to "L2P" are perfectly legit too. It's their right. Playing is for fun, some find fun in effort, difficulty, stress and progress, others find their fun in a more relaxed and forgiving context. They are not "lesser players". I don't place any "value" into the notion of effort put into a video game. If you like making efforts, fine, but those who don't like it do not deserve less. There's no "merit", it's not a job, not a sport, not a prowess of any kind, it's a game.
a video game like ESO is highly based on competition. You can see it everywhere in achievements, pve scoreboards, pvp scoreboards, valued gear and even in trading. Like it or not. So I think yes if you put less effort into something you do not deserve the same rewards and achievements as the guys that do(learn, progress and work as the others). What on earth is the point then
I've highlighted the points which, imo, are the basis of our disagreement.
Games (like sports by the way) CAN be for competition, but do not HAVE TO be for competition. They can be for fun.
Obviously the Olympics are for competition but your town soccer club is not necessarily into competition. Many games and sports don't even involve "winning" or rankings.
What's the point ? FUN. People are different, some like competition and don't even see fun outside competition, other see it just the opposite way, BUT both are perfectly legit. People who aren't into "effort", "work" and "progression" are just as legit as everyone else. In games, in sports, even in society.
But obviously the town soccer club has limited resources and must make choices when it comes to provide courses or training or organize event : junior, senior, casual, elite levels ? They must decide if they aim for the Olympics, or for the well being of the town people, or whatever inbetween.
In the case of ESO, it's ZOS' call to decide what category/categories of players they wish to target. And believe, they don't do that based on whatever forum rants, but on hard real numbers. It is obvious to me that they are orienting the game more and more towards the type of players who likes it easy, explores and role plays. That's a fact, that's legit, like it or not.
I don't even see what competitive players really find in ESO : there's absolutely nothing competitive in this game (at least PVE-wise) since the rules (abilities, scoring, instances, conditions, etc...) change all the time, officially or nerfed. Does "Boethiah's Scythe" mean anything anymore ? What is it to be Nr1 in the leaderboards when your scoring conditions are totally different from what they were 2 weeks ago and will be different again in 2 weeks ?
Running 100m under 10 seconds is the same as what if was 100 years ago and what it will be in 100 years. There's nothing like that in ESO.
Anyway back to topic and TL/DR :
- Non-competitive players are not lesser players
- You cannot "force" people to "put effort" into a game
- It's ZOS decision to make the game easier and it's perfectly legit for them to do so
- Obviously the direction of the game is more and more towards "easy", take it or leave it
- There's nothing really competitive in ESO anyway. Go play Dark Soul for real challenge or League of Legends for real competition ? (I don't know these games very well maybe they're not the proper examples, but you see what I mean).
Your point would be valid IF WGT and ICP did not have normal modes.
Non competitive players still have a way to have FUN in the game.
Unless you don't consider normal modes fun because they're too easy.
In which case you are taking away the FUN from one portion of the playerbase to cater another portion of the playerbase.Edited by Dubhliam on April 24, 2016 5:12PM3 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Your point would be valid IF WGT and CIP did not have normal modes.
Non competitive players still have a way to have FUN in the game.
Unless you don't consider normal modes fun because they're too easy.
In which case you are taking away the FUN from one portion of the playerbase to cater another portion of the playerbase.
Again, I'm not taking anything from anyone : I didn't ask for the stuff to be nerfed, just commenting now that ZOS is doing it.
As to normal modes : I have fun with normal MSA and run it regularly. I also have fun with normal MoL. The two IC dungeons in normal mode are too easy to be fun, really.
But regardless, and I mentioned it earlier, people don't like "normal modes". They don't run normal modes. Maybe because of the somewhat lesser loot, maybe because it's "second choice", maybe because it forces them to admit that they're not excellent players, whatever... whenever I ask my friends and guildies to do normal modes, the only answer I get is "naaahhh... useless"...
Not saying it's good or justified, just, that's how it is...
Luckily MSA is solo, I don't have to ask anyone to do it. Even people for normal MoL are hard to get nowadays. People prefer to wipe in vet mode or not do it at all... Even SO HM !!! Ran it with a group of people the other days who were mostly new to the instance and THEY insisted on turning on HM for the serpent... and yes of course we failed... don't ask me why people want hard mode. I don't get it...
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on April 24, 2016 2:43PM0 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
As to normal modes : I have fun with normal MSA and run it regularly. I also have fun with normal MoL. The two IC dungeons in normal mode are too easy to be fun, really.
I like how even you admit that stuff can be too easy to be fun yet you deny anyone else the right to have such opinion regarding the content that you happen to find a bit too challenging for your liking...
Whatever though. You seem to firmly believe ZOS knows better, with which I strongly disagree(if anything their track record so far has taught us they have no idea what they're doing lol). You're entitled to your opinion though, further arguing here seems useless.
I just hope someone at @ZOS is reading this thread and maybe at least having SOME thoughts about it
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anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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I like how even you admit that stuff can be too easy to be fun yet you deny anyone else the right to have such opinion regarding the content that you happen to find a bit too challenging for your liking...
Where have I denied good players the right to be bored by content that's too easy for them ?
Nowhere. Fine. Learn to read.
You seem to firmly believe ZOS knows better, with which I strongly disagree(if anything their track record so far has taught us they have no idea what they're doing lol).
What track record ? What decision by ZOS is that stupid in your eyes ? Because as far as I can see, the game is packed with players, new guilds are created and advertised every day, and good DLC are coming our way every three months. So yes, ZOS have no track record of doing silly things. (I know about performance issues and lag, thank you, but that's not a design issue).
I think ZOS has made a few decisions that don't suit YOU, which is why YOU call them bad. You're not capable of objectivity.
That ZOS knows better about the player base as a whole than any of us is not an opinion, it's a fact.
That they know better than said player base what is good for the game is my opinion, but when I see the amount of selfish or opinionated, if not right out completely stupid demands, requests and suggestions spread all over this forum, there's no doubt for me that ZOS knows better.I just hope someone at @ZOS is reading this thread and maybe at least having SOME thoughts about it
You really think they're not already aware of the way elite players burst out on the forums each time they announce a nerf ? Lol.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on April 24, 2016 5:07PM1 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@anitajoneb17_ESO , lol, let's not talk about ZOS track record here. I could write you a whole wall of text with a dozen+ points there, each of them being a fact, not a matter of opinion(are 5462953719 bugs, some of them here since launch, a matter of my opinion too?), but talking about this here is just further derailing the thread though and I would still like for it to stay at least somewhat constructive despite what you(and some others) say. You seem to be firmly of the opinion "big boss always knows best" and you're entitled to your opinion so whatever.
I still stand by the opinion we can find better options rather than moar blind nerfs.
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