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There are no good guys in ESO

  • The_Smilemeister
    The_Smilemeister
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    tplink3r1 wrote: »
    Imperials and nords are the worsts.
    the nords(nedes) invaded skyrim and enslaved the snow elves to built Windhelm, and drove them to extinction.
    the imperials(nede descendant) comited genocide against the Altmer using the numidium, a dwemer "robot-god".
    http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Numidium

    You're forgetting, both the Imperials and the Nords have suffered elven prejudice throughout their histories.

    The ancestors of the Nords came to Tamriel to flee civil instability in Atmora and co-existed with the local Snow Elves (Falmer). Due to reasons which are disputed (involving a possible human population takeover and the discovery of the Eye of Magnus), the Snow Elves sacked the human city of Saarthal and killed all but Ysgramor and his two sons. The invasion of the 500 companions was to avenge the deaths of those whose lives were taken by the elven agressors. Eventually the companions established permanent settlements and became the Nords.

    The ancestors of the Imperials migrated south to Cyrodiil and had become enslaved by the Ayleids. If thats not bad enough, the Ayleids even used Daedra to enforce their rule over the humans. The Alessian Slave Rebellion saw the Ayleids overthrown and led to the lighting of the Dragonfires, a pact between the emperor/emperess and Akatosh which prevents the Daedra from becoming a threat to the new empire. This led to the Nedic slaves becoming the Imperials or Cyro-Nords.

    Whilst you may think that there's no current justification for the Imperials and Nords prejudice against the elves, you're forgeting that an elven Alliance called the Aldmeri Dominion was established to enforce elven supremacy over Tamriel. Now since the Imperials and Nords have already experienced what the elves are capable of, do you really think they're going to accept that and let the Dominion walk all over them? Of course not. You could probably say that for the Imperials too, what they did to Summerset Isles and Valenwood with the 'Brass God', however the Imperials were trying to unify Tamriel after years of chaos including the Alliance War and the Interregnum. Whilst the Dominion wanted to enforce supremacy over human and beast folk, the Empire wanted to unite Tamriel and restore peace. And lets not even talk about the unnecessary war between the two in the 4th era, showing that the elves seem to start the conflict and then pass the blame onto the humans for being too young a species to wield the mantle of power.

    You see where I'm coming from? Whilst the Imperials and Nords may seem unnecessarily harsh towards the elves, you need to understand that they've suffered under elven rule and would do anything to prevent that from happening again.

    And FYI, the Snow Elves aren't extinct (at least not yet) since two of them appeared in the Skyrim Dawnguard DLC.

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  • ArrerBoy
    ArrerBoy
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    Evil? Good? Concepts for the simple-minded. In the Elder Scrolls, there is no good or evil. Just degrees of ***.
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  • pirate3
    pirate3
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    If there was a 'good race' in this game, they'd have nothing to do with any of my characters. I've killed hundreds if not thousands in my quest for 'personal development' and better loot. I don't wonder what wartime hardships led some unfortunate soul into a life of banditry as I turn them into neat piles of ash. I'm a greedy, psychotic butcher with hero syndrome. I'm an indiscriminate mass-murderer who's killed members of every race on Tamriel. I've sliced, diced, electrocuted , frozen and immolated much of the planet's wondrous fauna. I've even been known to pull the wings off butterflies. So I don't really have any problem if my employers drink too much, have delusions of supremacy or bathe infrequently. After all, who am I to judge?
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  • ArrerBoy
    ArrerBoy
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    pirate3 wrote: »
    If there was a 'good race' in this game, they'd have nothing to do with any of my characters. I've killed hundreds if not thousands in my quest for 'personal development' and better loot. I don't wonder what wartime hardships led some unfortunate soul into a life of banditry as I turn them into neat piles of ash. I'm a greedy, psychotic butcher with hero syndrome. I'm an indiscriminate mass-murderer who's killed members of every race on Tamriel. I've sliced, diced, electrocuted , frozen and immolated much of the planet's wondrous fauna. I've even been known to pull the wings off butterflies. So I don't really have any problem if my employers drink too much, have delusions of supremacy or bathe infrequently. After all, who am I to judge?

    Sounds like Talos: An Autobiography.
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  • matcumb
    matcumb
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    Dude, do you realise how many NPCs sacrifice their own lives to stop evil doers? People who you claim to eat babies and practice Necromancy. Sure, a ton of characters are evil ***, but hey, medieval style war setting; honestly, what did you expect?
    "It's the same old pish-posh. Gallant knight, epic quests rescued maidens. I came to this land when my head was quite unceremoniously separated from my body. Bad luck that, but you make the best of things." - Cadwell
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  • McSwaggins
    McSwaggins
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    Axer wrote: »
    - Filthy cat creatures.

    WHO'S THE RACIST NOW
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  • PsychoKRATOS1
    PsychoKRATOS1
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    The way I see it. As alliances go the ebonheart pact are the most noble in an equality point of view.
    War changes our perceptions of our enemies, when in one life we may have been friends, in this one the popular vote brands you a heathen criminal worthy of nothing less than a "glorious bloody death". So their hatred of others aside...

    Daggerfall covenant is a alliance between Breton and Redguard, with orcs being thrown into the mix for good measure. Would have made more sense to have orcs team up with nords or the high elves... why team up with "former" deadly, "tendency of sacking your encampments and especially orsinium" enemies? (Same with argonians)
    They pretty much have the upperhand over the orcs anyway. "If you fight for us and do all the berserking and heavy lifting we promise you can keep the wrothgarian city of orsinium..." wink wink nudge nudge.

    The aldmeri dominion is run by the *** of the eso world. (Pardon the analogy) they believe themselves to be, and always have, vastly superior to men. Something to do with perceived/widely believed racial origins... et-ada or some such thing.... The fact that ayrenn got tortured by Tharn for however long it was, made her bitter and developed a ingrained hatred of men for the actions of a particularly nasty individual. A leader who would probably be incredibly bias. Kind if like ulfric stormcloak with elves. I see enslavement.... ayleids.

    Now the reason why I think the EP are the most moral:
    Other than the fact that at least 3 out of the 4 the races of man have some or all of their ancestry originating in skyrim and historically (game wise) nords are the most prominent race...
    Nords have always fought elves... from their ancestors the nedes to the skyrim era imperial army. Doesn't make it right but... They are a powerful proud bunch of people, war is in their blood. Especially when elves are their traditional enemies.
    Dark elves enslaved Argonians. Seeing them as a beastial (which they are) uncivilised (subjective) race. Beat down by the nords.
    Argonians were enslaved by dark elves... en masse. Until the pact.

    Nords teamed up with dark elves or vice versa to quell an attack on riften and something about akivir (I believe that's the story). To the dark elves dismay and certainly the Nords probably shared their then "temporary" allies dismay when in dire straits in the defense of riften, see an entire hoarde of slave argonians on the horizon... to feel the relief to know they wanted to help... This act of an unlikely alliance prompted the forming of the ebonheart pact.

    The nords being the leaders of the Ebonheart Pact:
    Stopped slavery of argonians by the law abiding dark elves.
    Are most likely anti elf - traditional enemies/hatred towards them for enslavement etc (which would make sense as to why the argonians were saved from the chains)
    Formed an Alliance between three former enemies.

    The others did good. However I just see hypocrisy with the DC and AD. One with bully tactics to encourage orcs and the other extremely racist and prejudice. Whereas I see EP as emancipators, or at least the nords as such, with argonians now enjoying freedom imposed by an alliance pact.

    I don't know why the choice of race per alliance though.
    Orc, wood elf, high elf
    Khajiit, Redguard, dark elf
    Breton, Nord, argonians

    Might have been better.
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  • willymchilybily
    willymchilybily
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    Axer wrote: »
    Espeically those scaleskins. Super evil. My guilds like at least 20% argonians and those guys eat babies like they are delicious reases pieces.
    This is why the Dunmer master race enslaves the foul beasts.

    on another note, you Mostly do quests where a nefarious organisation or group is up to no good. Its not like you see a day in the life of a city guard who has a wife to please and 4 kids to feed. Stamping out evil tends to colour ones view of society. much like reading a tabloid news paper.

    also when did i miss this whole Bosmar are cannibals, I haven't seen any Namira cult activities in my adventuring. I bet angonians taste pretty good.
    Edited by willymchilybily on October 8, 2015 1:37PM
    PSN - WarpPigeon - Guild: TheSyndicate - EU, Ebonheart Pact
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  • ankhor8
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    Axer wrote: »
    Argonians:
    - Worship necromancy.
    - Bit racists against Khajiits.
    - Slavers (Khajiit). Some even enslave there own people in Deshaan.
    - Some are Skooma abusers
    - Their disgusting lizard dudes that eat worms, maggots and pretty sure babies too. Breton and Nord babies are their favorites.

    Saxhleel(Argonian) clarification:
    -We Saxhleel study, emphasis and master the school of Restoration and the skill of Alchemy, not necromancy.
    -Khajiit and others want to cry, accuse and blame us for their weakness to disease and illness(khahanten flu). We don't hate, we just prefer others be responsible for the strengths and weaknesses.
    -only the traitorous Dryskin boot licking Archein tribe sell Saxhleel and other leel. The dryskins that they serve are the dunmer and the imperial.
    -skooma addicts exist amongst all. Weak addicts are weak addicts.
    -some of us are herbivores only consuming bark, leaves, roots and rarely Hist sap. Some marsh relatives eat you and your kind. Yet if your willing to make statements of what we eat in that manner, provide reference. Personal perspective and documented info must be distinguished.

    "Good" is in the eye of the beholder. Many villains perceive their doing the best thing and many heroes perceive their doing what they should do. Rarely do either aspire to be good or evil.
    Kota-Sax-Blood
    Kota-Sax-Blood of True An-Xileel
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  • Kelces
    Kelces
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    Every part of the Elder Scrolls story, I came across had some Daedra involved in it. It's quite obvious, that they are it, who make the people of Tamriel turn against each other. It is not simply in their nature.
    Azura has a major part in the history of Dunmer - nice on the surface, but rotten inside - the Nerevarine showed up and became her toy to destroy her enemies.

    Sheogorath: As funny and charming that Daedra might seem, the "hero of Kvatch" had to do some quite nasty things, just to become him in the end.

    Hermaeus mora, or "Herma Mora" as the Skaal call him, ended up being the master of the "Dragonborn".

    So our heroes were deceived by Daedra to do their dirty work, albeit in a subtile way. What makes you think, something similar isn't going on aswell here? The three faction war in Cyrodiil is a nice distraction by the "god of schemes", looking forward, what happens next...
    Edited by Kelces on January 7, 2016 6:04PM
    You reveal yourself best in how you play.

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  • TheDracojan
    TheDracojan
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    Most Nords just don't care about other races. They laugh at any tradition, clothing or foods that don't resemble their own. They're nowhere near evil, they're just very very ignorant. (they also played an important role in abolishing slavery)

    Bretons on the other hand are maniacs, well not all of them, the mages mostly are insane pyromaniacs. For them war seems to be all about burning the enemy, and their houses, and their families, and their horses, and their fire, they will burn fire for the sake of burning!

    Altmer...*sigh* sieg heil much?
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  • SnuggleMePlease
    SnuggleMePlease
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    I'm here to defend Bosmer! First off, most followers of the Green Pact view the tenet regarding eating your fallen enemies as archaic. No one really follows it anymore. Even if, however, they did, I don't think this makes them evil. They simply don't want any part of their hunt to go to waste. It is very similar to how Native Americans made sure all parts of the kill were used properly.

    Also, I don't know if they're cannibals in regards to each other. Bosmer eating each other would be quite taboo in Valenwood, unless you're speaking about the Wild Hunt. If this is the case, then the Wild Hunt is an extremely rare occurrence, and it is debatable whether or not this is actually cannibalism since after the Wild Hunt is activated, the participants are no longer Bosmer, but rather horrific monsters incapable of reasoning or rational thought.

    I doubt that every Bosmer would feel the same if the Altmer decided to go on a genocidal killing spree and attempt to wipe out the other races. Some might, and some might not. Wood Elves are not a hive mind, after all. However, I find this to be problematic because it is known that the Altmer actually do engage in racial purges in Valenwood. So, taking that into consideration, I do suspect that many Bosmer would have some sympathy for the other races and would most likely raise the issue with the Altmer, at least within the Aldmeri Dominion.

    I also object notion to the notion that they're xenophobic barbarians. They are isolationists who live a romantic existence that is very in-sync with nature and the ways of the forest, but they have shown themselves to be one of the kindest, most hospitable races in Tamriel--assuming that you respect the forests of Valenwood.

    During the Ayleid Diaspora, the only groups of Ayleids to actually survive were those who fled to southern forests of Valenwood, hence the large amounts of Ayleid ruins in the region. Those who went north were slaughtered, those who went west were slaughtered, those who east were slaughtered or enslaved. Pretty much, if you didn't end up in Valenwood you were in for death or slavery. Not only that, the Wood Elves have also provided refuge to Alessian rebels during their plight. This social and amorous nature has lead to some amounts of racial mixing, so Wood Elves tend to be the most numerous of the Mer.

    Also, the majority of AD quests take place in Valenwood and there is a diverse array of different Wood Elves with differing philosophies, skillsets, backgrounds, etc., so I am not sure what you're talking about with your last point. It just seems like you're grasping at straws at this point.

    Did ZoS pay you to do this in the hopes of boosting Imperial race sells? That is what it seems like...

    Cheers,
    Snuggle
    "Heavy-bearded Y'ffre, speak through me. Tell us of the time before time. Let the story grow in me. Let my heart echo to the pounding of your feet along the story-lines, the bones of the world. I will walk Your steps, and know Your story."

    SnuggleMePlease - NA - AD
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  • catcher51
    catcher51
    So it seems like while the OP was over-generalizing a little, he was on to something. ESO is a good example of gray-and-gray morality. In other words, there is no clear-cut good and bad guys. Everyone has their agenda, and everyone is willing to do less than admirable things to achieve it. Anybody who watches game of thrones knows that although "fan favorites" exist, there is no obvious "good" or "bad". At least in what I have seen of the game so far.
    EP Dunmer DK Dual Wield - Allamus

    "In war there is no prize for the runner-up."
    — General Omar Bradley
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  • PrinceBoru
    PrinceBoru
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    Make Tamriel Great Again
    It ain't easy being green.
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  • ListerJMC
    ListerJMC
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    Axer wrote: »
    Redguards:
    - Pretty much exclusively criminals. Any criminal activtiy in tamriel generally involves a red guard. Especially smuggling, drug dealing, theft.
    - Very corrupt skooma-head leadership. You do at least one quest which involves you delivering smuggled skooma to high ranking people in Sentinel.
    Axer wrote: »
    Yea most drug dealers seems to be redguards. (You get thte big drug dealer quest from a red guard). Khaajit cook it up, but mostly hand it off to the redguards to deal it seems (what they don't use up them selves)

    Ok I'm going to defend Redguards here since no-one else appears to be! So many agrees for this misinformation!

    Firstly ....what? I can think of plenty of criminal quests where a Redguard wasn't involved (Mug theft in Orsinium, Skooma operation in Khanarthi's Roost, Rites of theft in Valenwood, Smugglers in North Point, Temple theft in Reaper's March - the list goes on). Redguards don't have some sort of alarm alerting them to criminal activity so they can get themselves down there.

    Furthermore, "exclusively criminals"? See: Throne Keeper Farvad, Merric at-Aswala, Sai Sahan, Queen Maraya, Aideh al-Satakalaam, Blandine, Countess Hakruba... so many more but the ones I've named include simple townsfolk, warriors, respected nobility and religious figures.

    I know the quest you're talking about in your next point ("Sieze the Moment") and they were not high-ranking individuals at all, I believe it was "well respected members of the community" or something to that effect. A lady at an inn, a man at the forge and a man in the marketplace. Not to mention that the one who had the skooma in the first place was a khajiiti Bandaari merchant, not a Redguard - the main Redguard involved wanted to stop her! Skooma can be found all over Tamriel, not just in Hammerfell, and I have no idea where you're getting this idea from that Redguards have a higher usage of it. There are skooma addicts in Elden Root in Valenwood, does that make all Bosmer skooma dealers? Nope!

    Now the Khajiit-Redguard skooma relationship you mentioned. A key ingredient needed to make Skooma, moon sugar, is found in Elsewyr where the Khajiit live. The Dark Elves are believed to be responsible for first creating the substance. The reason the Khajiit are more susceptible to it is because their diet is already high in moon sugar and sweetness, making skooma appeal more to them and their "sweet tooth" (not all Khajiit, mind you). Some merchants, Khajiiti or otherwise, have been known to take skooma abroad and trade them with others because it is extremely profitable - you see that in "Sieze the Moment" mentioned above. They do not exclusively take skooma to Hammerfell, I've found it present or at least mentioned in many provinces across Tamriel. No, there wasn't always a quest to spell it out, but it's around if you talk to NPCs in towns. It's continent-wide.

    I'm not the best at explaining these things but hopefully I debunked some stuff about Redguards there, maybe even Khajiit :) . Though I disagree with a lot of the other stereotypes you've but up here about the other races, they seem to have been defended.
    PC NA & EU || Mammoth Guilds - Victory or Valhalla || Altmer sorcerer main
    "Wood Elves aren't made of wood. Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves."
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  • DaveMoeDee
    DaveMoeDee
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    Sounds like real life. All types of people have a lot of dark stuff in their group's past. It is great that ESO includes it in their lore.
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  • DaveMoeDee
    DaveMoeDee
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    McSwaggins wrote: »
    Axer wrote: »
    - Filthy cat creatures.

    WHO'S THE RACIST NOW

    Sometimes racism is warranted.
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  • PrinceBoru
    PrinceBoru
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    I'm Dunmer.
    I am superior.
    That is all.
    It ain't easy being green.
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  • Spacemonkey
    Spacemonkey
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    Rayadrel wrote: »

    My already high opinion of the Telvanni rose a notch when I learned they rejected the Pact.
    Yeah, I'd love a DLC of the Telvanni Isles.
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  • ArrerBoy
    ArrerBoy
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    Nords...played an important role in abolishing slavery

    They didn't even blink when Talos sold their Breton allies to slavery.
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  • Mojmir
    Mojmir
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    There's no good guys,no bad guys,only u and me and we just cant agree.
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  • Dracan_Fontom
    Dracan_Fontom
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    Argonians:
    - Worship necromancy.
    - Bit racists against Khajiits.
    - Slavers (Khajiit). Some even enslave there own people in Deshaan.
    - Some are Skooma abusers
    - Their disgusting lizard dudes that eat worms, maggots and pretty sure babies too. Breton and Nord babies are their favorites.
    -
    First, we worship the hist as our creators, and to a lesser extent Sith is if we are a part of the Botherhood. Slavers, really? We are the slaves, and for the most part isolationists. And skooma is a Khajiit drug and most Argonians do not use it. And the last point, I mean come on, we eat worms, maggots, and babies. We may be lizards but we consume the se food as Elves and humans. It's clear that you do not know a thing about the lore.
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  • Xellos77
    Xellos77
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    Dagoth Ur for prez
    Ebonheart Pact/PS4/NA
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  • socivL
    socivL
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    it's just a fantasy game and unlike reality.
    every single person is completely identical, except that there are unique individuals.
    there is no race except for the human race, and NASCAR.
    2 templars - 1 cup
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