There are no good guys in ESO

Axer

Have you guys noticed that every races major theme is always something evil/immoral? Almost none even come close to trying to be the good guys:

Ebonheart:
Dunmer:
Obviously massive racists and slavers. Hate/Enslave Khajiit and Argonians.

Nords:
Not as bad as most of the rest, but still at least are:
- Pretty much all alcoholics
- Indifferent towards the dunmers slavery practices. Don't really practice it, but none really try to stop it.
- Tiny bit racist, tho mostly just the ones in Skyrim, who say they are the "true sons and daughters of skyrim" and anyone else there - especially any of the -mer races, are inferior.
- Most of them are probably sex offenders. All the female nord npcs imply this.

Argonians:
- Worship necromancy.
- Bit racists against Khajiits.
- Slavers (Khajiit). Some even enslave there own people in Deshaan.
- Some are Skooma abusers
- Their disgusting lizard dudes that eat worms, maggots and pretty sure babies too. Breton and Nord babies are their favorites.

Daggerfall:

Redguards:
- Pretty much exclusively criminals. Any criminal activtiy in tamriel generally involves a red guard. Especially smuggling, drug dealing, theft.
- Very corrupt skooma-head leadership. You do at least one quest which involves you delivering smuggled skooma to high ranking people in Sentinel.

Orcs (Orsimer):
Not as bad as the rest, but still lacking im morals:
- Vicious Savages. Brutal murderers with no remorse and little care for laws regarding it.
- Predjudice against anyone weak really.
- The only race that can't be the dragonborn (vestige)

Bretons:
Almost good guys, but have evil dark secrets:
- Lots worship necromancy/daedra. More so then other races. Pretty sure most of the dudes worshipping molag bal at each anchor are bretons.
- Tiny bit racist against beast races
- Greedier then the Ferengi, would sell their own sons for a profit.
- Obviously all practice heavy incest. Have you looked at the female breton NPCs? They have like 2 different looks among hundreds.

Aldmeri Dominion:

Khajiit:
- 99% of them are HEAVY skooma addicts. They farm it, they cook it up. They sell it. They are at the very pinnacle of skooma crime and addiction. No less then 10 quests in the game proove this. And also explains the dangers of this drug. It's at least equivalent to heroin in real life, if not worse.
- Racists. Hate/Enslave Argonians.
- Filthy cat creatures. They never bathe and always lie.

Altmer:
- Massive supremecists. Would wipe out every other race in tamerial if they had the resources to do it. They may not say it out loud, but you know they would.
- Extremely arrogant and pompous in general.
- Super racists agaist all non-altmer races. Especially hate the Nords.
- Massive jerks in general. They often try to kill on sight the vestige, even in the AD campaign itself, and even if he himself is an Altmer. In other alliances it's pretty rare to have your own race fight you outside of bandits.

Bosmer:
Bascially a very slightly less evil altmer.
- Cannibals. Eat their enemies, and even their own race.
- Not totally 100% for genocide like the altmer, but they'd be indifferrent if the AD altmer went ahead with that as long as they excluded them.
- Xenophobic Barbarians. Will reject most open offers of peace from other races to preserve there own culture, no matter the costs to others.
- Featured characters of their race are almost always evil assassins. Don't seem to care much for humanoid life.

Non alligned:

Imperials:
Pretty much the most good guy race, but I think thats mainly because you can't see what kind of evil stuff they are up to in the imperial city yet. In most cases you encounter them, they are just at war with the faction you in. And in general they don't commit much super evil warcrimes - most quests involve you either just fighting them, or rescueing prisoners - prooving they at least don't murder innocents in war unlike some of the other races (Altmer, Dunmer, Argonians and Orcs definetely do this often, Argonians also eat the babies when they do it).

Probably in the imperial city they are doing all kinds of necromancy and worshipping daedra, but who knows for sure.

In the future (Oblivion) they are generally somewhat evil tho: Huge supremacists like the Altmer, racists against most. Can't say for sure they are that bad in this timeline though.

What do you guys think?
They made them all evil on purpose so the pvp feels more real?
Or just the devs though it would make a better story heh.

Rayadrel

Yeah this isn't generalising at all.
For example, only a fraction of Altmer are racial supremacists. The entire Dominion is based on equality. That's kinda why the racists hate it.

Having your own race not fight you is an outright lie. In the Ebonheart Pact alone half your time is spend fighting rogue Dunmer along with Argonians and Nords here and there. The other half seems to be spent crying about how mean the Covenant are.

You seem to be letting your opinions of the TESV era Thalmor colour your view of these. Even then, only a hardcore of them want to end the world.
Plus, they're right about Talos. Bloody god-moding nab.

Nox_Aeterna

Axer wrote: »

Bosmer:
- Not featured in a ton of quests, but when they are, they are almost always evil assassins. Don't seem to care much for humanoid life.

OP , did you play all factions?

Because most of the AD story line , are bosmer quests.

Kendaric

Rayadrel wrote: »

Yeah this isn't generalising at all.
For example, only a fraction of Altmer are racial supremacists. The entire Dominion is based on equality. That's kinda why the racists hate it.

Having your own race not fight you is an outright lie. In the Ebonheart Pact alone half your time is spend fighting rogue Dunmer along with Argonians and Nords here and there. The other half seems to be spent crying about how mean the Covenant are.

You seem to be letting your opinions of the TESV era Thalmor colour your view of these. Even then, only a hardcore of them want to end the world.
Plus, they're right about Talos. Bloody god-moding nab.

The general attitude of the Altmer is that they should rule as the races of men are too foolish to be left to their own devices. So, they are definitely racial supremacists.

Rayadrel

Kendaric wrote: »

The general attitude of the Altmer is that they should rule as the races of men are too foolish to be left to their own devices. So, they are definitely racial supremacists.

And what, the Imperials or Bretons or whatever don't have a similar view for their own right to rule? Or the Dunmer who think they're superior because they worship a trio of backstabbing, murdering fake gods?

Also it's hardly racial supremacy when they're absolutely right. Every single time there's a disagreement or shift in order, the Empire run by humans immediately degenerates into fisticuffs over who gets to sit on top of the Imperial *** and rule for the next 5 minutes.

Strictly speaking, when the continent was ruled by elves it took Aedric cheating to bring them down.

Runefell

Bosmer are, sadly, cannibals, in case you didn't know. And as for the orcs, they don't seem to have a lot of gender equality. Their women, in more traditional places, don't seem to have a lot of say in their fate. I think my favorite race to interact with, though, has to be the Khajiit. Furry little thieves they may be, you have to love them.

But yeah, it's nice to see that it's not a case of good vs evil. There's more depth to the world then that. Each faction makes a good case, and each has a dark side as well. There are good and bad in each race, heroes and villains in every corner.

zhevon

Rayadrel wrote: »

Or the Dunmer who think they're superior because they worship a trio of backstabbing, murdering fake gods?

In lore terms, when did the hoi poloi realize this?

tplink3r1

Imperials and nords are the worsts.
the nords(nedes) invaded skyrim and enslaved the snow elves to built Windhelm, and drove them to extinction.
the imperials(nede descendant) comited genocide against the Altmer using the numidium, a dwemer "robot-god".
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Numidium

Abigail

Just for a moment I'm going to treat this as a serious thread. In doing so, I need to relate a real life circumstance.

I used to teach at the collegiate level, and based on encounters with a few varsity athletes during my early years it would have been easy for me to conclude that all jocks are stupid. Happily for me, I did not make that assessment and went on over the years to conclude college athletes are, on the whole, no smarter or less intellectually gifted than other student cohorts.

You've met a few villains, miscreants, and n'er do wells from various races during your travels in-game. I posit both a small sampling and the circumstances of your meeting do not bode well for a determination of unilateral racial moral or ethical characteristics. Moreover, if we must resort to pigeon-holing the races as generally good or bad, that there's at least as much to commend each race as there is to castigate.

/back to reality

JosephChip

The Altmer are actually pretty nice. Definitely the best candidates to rule Tamriel. Some of them are terribly racist and firmly believe themselves superior to other races. But that's just a minority. Exactly like there are racist white men but most of them believe in racial equality. It's clear however they are the wisest among all races. I am a Breton in game, but Bretons are merchants and are focused on acquiring wealth and prosperity. An objective not without merit, but they wouldn't make the best rulers. Nords are generally terrible at ruling. They are a warrior race and they are always looking for a fight. Also they show serious signs of rampant racism even towards their own allies. Not sure about Redguards. Do they even want to rule? All the other races are not suited for the task. Orcs and Argonians aren't an option. Kajhits could actually pull off something good, but their culture is far too different. They would have an hard time managing all of Tamriel. As for the Bosmer, I don't believe their kin would be terribly thrilled by the idea of managing a large empire outside their beloved homeland. Lastly, I don't believe anyone wants to see Dunmer in charge. Altmer are led by Ayrenn, who is arguably the wisest, most mature and kind of all three rulers (there is an instance where it is perfectly clear, no spoilers). She believes in equality and peace among all races under Altmer supervision. The Dominion has no intent to dominate. Which is quite funny. Ayrenn simply wants to unite Tamriel and promote cooperation between its inhabitants. She is also the target of a murderous plot and some assorted treacheries because of her progressive and liberal ideals. Given this is my personal opinion, I thus conclude Altmer are our best option.

As a note, all three rulers are very capable and charismatic. It's hard to hate or even dislike any of them. None of them shows huge flaws and they appear to be very reasonable. When they do not argue among themselves. However Ayrenn has that edge of maturity and progressive thinking that elevates her a tad above the other two.

Hurbster

That OP was as funny as that book you find detailing all the Dunmer houses, funny stuff.

However, if you play the EP you REALLY start to hate a certain other faction almost from the get go.

Axer

Yea I'll admit I'm only 2/5th thru the AD campaign, so the Bosmer are probably a lot more evil then I know. But I did the other 2 and I stand by what I say on those for sure.

Espeically those scaleskins. Super evil. My guilds like at least 20% argonians and those guys eat babies like they are delicious reases pieces.

Three hearts as one for sure, but I think two hearts as one would work fine , argonians are gonna betray us at any moment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-lGevvO2vw

michaelpatrickjonesnub18_ESO

Axer wrote: »

Almost none even come close to trying to be good guys.

Reminds me of Martin Scorsese's films.

Everybody is bad.

zhevon

Hurbster wrote: »

However, if you play the EP you REALLY start to hate a certain other faction almost from the get go.

I like when your walking through town - and you hear the following conversation:
- "is it true their soldiers drink the blood of infants?"
-"uh no. Most of the Covenant soldiers we met drank beer."

Rayadrel

Hurbster wrote: »

That OP was as funny as that book you find detailing all the Dunmer houses, funny stuff.

However, if you play the EP you REALLY start to hate a certain other faction almost from the get go.

To be fair the Ebonhearts deserve everything the get for being so crap.
I mean what did the Covenant sail unopposed through Nord waters? Warrior race my butt!
But I guess you can't expect much when an ostensibly sensible race like the Dunmer are saddled with a bunch of hairy drunks and lizards.

My already high opinion of the Telvanni rose a notch when I learned they rejected the Pact.

Cogo

I am just gonna take for granted that the OP never really played OR read lore from Elderscrolls. Tamriel is a world in constant fighting. Sometimes even among the own races. This is the way of life in this world.

Define a good guy? Imperials? Sure, why not name the "race" that chops off heads on nobleman from other alliances just for the heck of it.

Both Kahajiit and Argonians are natural peaceful people. Both races went through pretty much slavery, so not really surpricing if they show some teeth?

In this world, I would define "good" as a person who means no harm, who doesn't attack first. Or someone you can trust.

Ever seen Altmirs wisdom? Or orcs honorcode? Name ONE orc that broke his/her word.

Interesting post to raise, but you kinda forgot Tamriel isn't earth 2014, not even earth 2014 BC!

Censorious

Let's leave morality out of it shall we?

Your character has to make some pretty questionable either/or choices throughout the game, without a third option.
I just had to pay a bribe - no other choice, not even to kill the smug piece of ***. I've selected sacrificial victims, decided life or death for victims of circumstance on the basis of best loot choice... The list goes on.

Apparently I'm just as bad as the rest of 'em.

Axer

Censorious wrote: »

Let's leave morality out of it shall we?

Your character has to make some pretty questionable either/or choices throughout the game, without a third option.
I just had to pay a bribe - no other choice, not even to kill the smug piece of ***. I've selected sacrificial victims, decided life or death for victims of circumstance on the basis of best loot choice... The list goes on.

Apparently I'm just as bad as the rest of 'em.

Actually you can get to VR10 doing pretty much zero quests.

I skipped like 60% of the quests and im v10.

So yea, you can play a good guy. Just slaughter mainly undead/daedra to lvl up.

In fact, 1-50 is the fastest way to level. And even V1-6 is very fast is you do BC - which is all undead/drea. Then 7-10 is VERY fast is you do wayrest, which is all undead/deadra again.

My imperial main is definetely not a purely good guy. I like I think I'm usually chaotic good tho. Sure I've done some bad things, but it was only because Akatosh told me too.

Also very rude to say I don't know the lore. (not refering to quoted post)

I've played insane amounts of hours of oblivion, skyrim and this game. So I knw plenty.

Do I know every last little bit? No. No one does, thats impossible.

So post your opinions, based on the lore. don't insult others for their own. The beauty of these games is everyone will get a different take on the situation, as each game has so many choices about how to play and therefore what you learn.

And yea my last point on each race was mainly a joke. The other ones I've listed are true to how I played the game though, and my perceptions.

Zimnel

Argonians worshipping necromancy?? omg, I stopped reading there.
Many quests I did in EP had argonians giving their own lives, sacrificing themselves for their people and for a better future. Their lore is all about the hist and the way they commune with it. And no, the hist is not a powerful undead and evil creature... Generalizing is always bad. Not all khajiit are drug dealers and not all dunmer are slavers to say something.

Shaun98ca2

I wonder if your "moral" choices in the game paint a different picture.

Everybody dies approach makes everybody seem evil and backstabbing...

Everybody lives approach makes everybodys bad decisions seem reasonable or at least forgivable.

Axer

Zimnel wrote: »

Generalizing is always bad. Not all khajiit are drug dealers and not all dunmer are slavers to say something.

Yea most drug dealers seems to be redguards. (You get thte big drug dealer quest from a red guard). Khaajit cook it up, but mostly hand it off to the redguards to deal it seems (what they don't use up them selves)
And all dunmers that aren't slavers are just too poor to own one usually.

Generalizing is what makes ESO fun!

Pyatra

REALLY?! That's only the evil Altmers most are great, but seriously? The wood elves are CANIBALS. Snooty > Cannibal on the evil scale? I say no to you sir.

I have yet to do the Covenant but so far Dunmer get the Vile Evil award

Axer

Pyatra wrote: »

REALLY?! That's only the evil Altmers most are great, but seriously? The wood elves are CANIBALS. Snooty > Cannibal on the evil scale? I say no to you sir.

I have yet to do the Covenant but so far Dunmer get the Vile Evil award

I was only just started on the AD campaign when i wrote this, so didnt see that yet.. But yea I added cannibal to their traits now.

Still think Altmer are more evil tho. Bosmer are cannibals cuz they jus hungry, Altmer want to murder everyone on Nirn that isn't an altmer.

Rayadrel

Axer wrote: »

Pyatra wrote: »

REALLY?! That's only the evil Altmers most are great, but seriously? The wood elves are CANIBALS. Snooty > Cannibal on the evil scale? I say no to you sir.

I have yet to do the Covenant but so far Dunmer get the Vile Evil award

I was only just started on the AD campaign when i wrote this, so didnt see that yet.. But yea I added cannibal to their traits now.

Still think Altmer are more evil tho. Bosmer are cannibals cuz they jus hungry, Altmer want to murder everyone on Nirn that isn't an altmer.

I basically torpedoed your entire point about Altmer, so now you're outright lying about them?
Are you Ken Ham by any chance?

Oh and you also have zero understanding of the lore behind Bosmer cannibalism.
Just... stop. It's embarrassing.

Axer

Rayadrel wrote: »

I basically torpedoed your entire point about Altmer, so now you're outright lying about them?
Are you Ken Ham by any chance?

Oh and you also have zero understanding of the lore behind Bosmer cannibalism.
Just... stop. It's embarrassing.

Pretty sure your torpedo missed. All the lore about the altmer shows they are supremecists. Every quest you do they always talk about the greatness of the aldmeri dominion, and its purpose is simple: Dominate every bit of land across Tamriel, and probably all of Nirn if they could. Destroy everyone that isn't us. It's entire reason for it's existance is evil.

I mean it's pretty simple, basic core concept of the game. It's written in stone right here - bottom of the page:
http://elderscrollsonline.com/en-uk/game-guide/alliances/daggerfall-covenant
"Elven Dominance of Tamriel"
They want to dominate and eradicate every non elven race.

They are straight up and simply the most evil alliance. And the Altmer clearly lead them.

I'm not even close to wrong. I'm not lying, I have obvious and 100% official proof right there.

Daggerfall Covenant was formed because they want to take back what they believe is rightfully theirs - the ruby throne in cyrodil. Once they have that, they won't go into elven or EP territory and wipe out every race. They aren't the altmer.

Ebon Pact was formed out of neccesity to fight off the Akaviri slavers. A very good and fair reason. It eventually became more then that, but the root cause was just.



I agree Queen Ayren and the story you sort of follow in the AD campaign doesn't let this main story FACT on very well, it's all inbetween the lines. But mark my wards, most of the altmer want her dead for her actions. She doesn't represent the race very well. (My guesss is Kate Beckensale complained and they rewrote the character to be less evil, as imo she plain doesn't fit in, many of the side quests related to the war where she isn't involved show off the true desires of the altmers plan for complete genocide much better.)

Also I don't need to understand any story about Cannibalism. It's evil. You can try to defend it if you want tho, go ahead.

Also this is a civil discussion forum with rules, if you can't follow them and rather outright insult others for their beliefs, you should go elsewhere. I won't report your post, but really man, it's all just opinions and fun, part of it's a joke that you clearly didnt get, which is fine, but most of it is true.

shiva7663

A lot of the line items in the OP are incorrect.

Axer

shiva7663 wrote: »

A lot of the line items in the OP are incorrect.

Vague post is vague.

shiva7663

For example, Orcs can't be Dragonborn? cite, plz.

Axer

shiva7663 wrote: »

For example, Orcs can't be Dragonborn? cite, plz.

The final point in each race is mostly a joke. It's based on info from the elder scrolls games, but it's just intended to be funny, sorry ya didn't get it.

And this one is from Skyrim:
In Skyrim the only race where the npcs won't refer to you as Dragonborn is orc. They will just call you "orc" in a lot of the dialog instead.

Technically no one can be the dragonborn in ESO. We are all the Souless one, the Vestige, the Soul Shriven, etc. I jokingly refer to it as the Dragonborn, as that sounds cooler.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

whatever the OP is smoking, i want some, cause nothing on earth can possibly get you that high

Shiaxi

Axer wrote: »

I mean it's pretty simple, basic core concept of the game. It's written in stone right here - bottom of the page:
http://elderscrollsonline.com/en-uk/game-guide/alliances/daggerfall-covenant
"Elven Dominance of Tamriel"
They want to dominate and eradicate every non elven race.

did you even read the bit on the AD you linked to?

The High Elves, or Altmer, arrived in Tamriel thousands of years ago from Old Aldmeris. They see themselves, perhaps justifiably, as the ruling race of Tamriel. They are a highly cultured people, known for their breathtaking architecture and massive libraries of histories and creative works. They tend to be isolationists, largely remaining on Summerset Isle, and only emerge when they perceive a great threat to their homeland. They are powerful mages and warriors, and the de facto leaders of the Aldmeri Dominion.


...

where does it say they want to dominate and eradicate every non elven race? are you filling in the blanks yourself?

note that ruling something is not the same thing as dominating something.

besides that; what do you think high king emeric and that big oaf of a nord would say if you asked them which race should rule tamriel? do you think they would say.. well the argonians? no they're going to say the bretons and the nords respectively.


Also note that the altmer are described as isolationists... meaning that if they aren't provoked into action they will friggin' completely ignore the outside world leaving the scheming bretons and the barbaric nords to their own primitive ways.