Only way for dungeon hard mode = Do them with SUPER casual people

susmitds · April 2016

After the reveal of the PvE nerf, I decided to do Veteran City of Ash with some guys who liked the nerf as they could not finish the dungeon in several tries. We started the dungeon at V16 scale.

Party

My StamDK - Khajiit - V16 - DD

The rest

Other DD : Stamina Nightblade - V13 - Imperial - Never heard of Suprise Attack and uses Impale as execution skill in spite of it being a magicka skill
Healer : Magicka DK - V16 - Khajiit - Loves cats so much that she uses it for magicka builds too - Usually the first one to die
Tank : Hybrid Templar - V16 - Altmer - Stacks huge amounts of health and health recovery but does not seem to understand the need of stamina recovery

How the battles play out.

Against Mobs

Healer always manages to run into some thing and dies first.
Damage Dealer charges next with Power Extraction getting the attention of every enemy in the vicinity. Dies in seconds.
Tank goes next and tries to perma block. Dies in seconds.
Me - Forced to solo till they revive.

Against bosses

Tank buffs up and charges at boss. Due to low stamina regen, is out of stamina in seconds and runs to healer for heals and gets both of them dead.
Damage Dealer is pretty decent at kiting with bow, till adds show up. Dies after that.
Me - Try to revive somebody or try to solo boss, if he is already in execution state. Usually results in death.

No wonder, there are people who can't complete these dungeons. But you wanna know the most AWESOME part? We still managed to finish the dungeon after a good deal of deaths on the bosses.

On giving them advice, their replies were mostly like, we know how to play and don't try to teach us. On showing them why exactly they sucked, their answers were mostly, we are casual players, unlike nerds like you and have real lives.
I mean, I am also a pretty casual player, who hardly plays a couple of hours a day, and at the same time, am doing a Phd on statistics and swimming in competitions for renowned water sports clubs.
If the devs make the game easier for players, who use ineffective builds, due to personal biases and are closed to suggestion as well, and then try to justify their choices by being "casual", well, then I got no idea how the game can progress.
I really think, that the players should try and adapt if they have difficulty in finishing some thing in a game. The game should never adapt to cater to a small minority of players, who fail badly at it due to their narrow mindedness.
However, there are ways to make the game better for everyone. Firstly the game needs much better tutorials on combat mechanics and other aspects of the game. Nextly the devs should make the descriptions of some passives and active skills more transparent, so that players are not second guessing what something does.
Decreasing difficulty just decreases the standard of the game, as well its players. If anything, the game should have better AI and increased difficulty mid-game onwards so that new players are better prepared for tougher situations.

ButtersEP · April 2016

Lol that's a prime example of a group finder group haha

Tank has all heavy armor, no taunt, & s 2 hander. Im a tank !

Magdalina · April 2016

I know the feeling...my ICP pug didn't do that well today, good thing I don't do those for completion lol.

The number of players that refuse to even say anything in groupchat(answer simple questions like "what skills do you have for aoe?" after a wipe due to being overrun by trash mobs) or listen to advices is astounding x_x And then you get blamed for being an elitist a**hole. Or your heals suck because a tank had 18k health, didn't block a boss' heavy attac and got 1shot.

There're so many people talking about "elitists never wanting to teach anyone and just running with their core groups", but do you guys have any idea how hard it is to teach someone when 3 groups out of 4 you are like "hey guys, have you done this dungeon before?"/"do you know this boss' mechanics?"/"can you <do this> so this gets easier?" you are met with silence and ignoring or better yet "I know how to play, don't tell me what to do!"...

I will pug it again later today though

I still have some hope for humanity...or maybe I am just THAT bored lol.

OrangeTheCat · April 2016

Cool story.

Lenikus · April 2016

Magdalina wrote: »

Stuff

Dude, you are 2 pug groups with dumb people to become just liek me

Ghost-Shot · April 2016

I'm curious, what would the tank have used stamina regen for anyway?

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

There is casual, then there is uber casual, then there are those that just suck and likely always will suck. The game seems to be catering to the lowest of those categories. Quite frustrating for someone who wants a challenge.

Oompuh · April 2016

Tank is dead due to low Stam regeneration? WHAT?

First, if you have your shield up you have NO regeneration for Stam. He could have 3k regen it doesn't matter. A majority of tanks don't have regen at all. Keeping your stamina up while blocking is about management not regen.

Secondly, race has nothing to do with skill. The healer wanting to be a khajiit has nothing to do with it, coming from a khajiit tank.

You seem to be blaming their build or their race.

Finally, get a guild if you don't want to pug. The game progresses with the top guilds not the lfg tool

susmitds · April 2016

Magdalina wrote: »

I know the feeling...my ICP pug didn't do that well today, good thing I don't do those for completion lol.

The number of players that refuse to even say anything in groupchat(answer simple questions like "what skills do you have for aoe?" after a wipe due to being overrun by trash mobs) or listen to advices is astounding x_x And then you get blamed for being an elitist a**hole. Or your heals suck because a tank had 18k health, didn't block a boss' heavy attac and got 1shot.

There're so many people talking about "elitists never wanting to teach anyone and just running with their core groups", but do you guys have any idea how hard it is to teach someone when 3 groups out of 4 you are like "hey guys, have you done this dungeon before?"/"do you know this boss' mechanics?"/"can you <do this> so this gets easier?" you are met with silence and ignoring or better yet "I know how to play, don't tell me what to do!"...

I will pug it again later today though I still have some hope for humanity...or maybe I am just THAT bored lol.

There are good players and there are bad players. I have seen quite a few good players with seemingly contradicting builds perform great. It is possible to deal heavy damage with also 28k HP and at the same time it is possible to tank with 18k hp if you know the boss mechanics before hand and if you, more importantly, know the strengths and weaknesses of your builds. But if you are failing, you should question your mistakes and try listening to advice. But, no, there are always a few people who call anybody unfortunate to be worse than them at the game noobs and anybody better than them l33ts, who need a life, while believing themselves to be the perfect definition of balance.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

you're sharing your perspective but you don't realize that the BIG OBVIOUS PROBLEM IS....

The game suggested you can play as you want, but as you detail, to complete it, you have to play it a specific way per role, class, race, etc.

I don't think anything should go but if you didn't know the fights and class/roles, you wouldn't have been able to complete it with them either. So it does prove that nerfs are the right decision because if only certain builds and certain players can complete it...then its not balanced for the intent the game suggests.

lathbury · April 2016

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my last pug run was like this. thats my the small blonde magicka tank. the dude next to me with the heavy armour and sword and board thats one of the dps the one with dualwield yep you guessed it is the healer so as you can imagine vwgt was really successful.

susmitds · April 2016

Oompuh wrote: »

Tank is dead due to low Stam regeneration? WHAT?

First, if you have your shield up you have NO regeneration for Stam. He could have 3k regen it doesn't matter. A majority of tanks don't have regen at all. Keeping your stamina up while blocking is about management not regen.

Secondly, race has nothing to do with skill. The healer wanting to be a khajiit has nothing to do with it, coming from a khajiit tank.

You seem to be blaming their build or their race.

Finally, get a guild if you don't want to pug. The game progresses with the top guilds not the lfg tool

My Khajiit is damage dealer as I clearly mentioned and the stamina regen is for occasional dodges and well timed blocks. For most tanks, perma blocking will kill you anyway, if your healer is down.
I am not blaming the healer for the race anyway, but Khajiit healers are not the greatest anyway. And certainly not, if the healer can't keep herself alive in the first place.

Magdalina · April 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

I know the feeling...my ICP pug didn't do that well today, good thing I don't do those for completion lol.

The number of players that refuse to even say anything in groupchat(answer simple questions like "what skills do you have for aoe?" after a wipe due to being overrun by trash mobs) or listen to advices is astounding x_x And then you get blamed for being an elitist a**hole. Or your heals suck because a tank had 18k health, didn't block a boss' heavy attac and got 1shot.

There're so many people talking about "elitists never wanting to teach anyone and just running with their core groups", but do you guys have any idea how hard it is to teach someone when 3 groups out of 4 you are like "hey guys, have you done this dungeon before?"/"do you know this boss' mechanics?"/"can you <do this> so this gets easier?" you are met with silence and ignoring or better yet "I know how to play, don't tell me what to do!"...

I will pug it again later today though I still have some hope for humanity...or maybe I am just THAT bored lol.

There are good players and there are bad players. I have seen quite a few good players with seemingly contradicting builds perform great. It is possible to deal heavy damage with also 28k HP and at the same time it is possible to tank with 18k hp if you know the boss mechanics before hand and if you, more importantly, know the strengths and weaknesses of your builds. But if you are failing, you should question your mistakes and try listening to advice. But, no, there are always a few people who call anybody unfortunate to be worse than them at the game noobs and anybody better than them l33ts, who need a life, while believing themselves to be the perfect definition of balance.

I know it is possible. I've never once kicked a person from a group or left a group before giving them more than a fair chance. I will run with a vet 1, with a magicka character seemingly wearing heavy armor, with a tank who has 20k(or even 15k, though I will have some doubts in this case but I will look at how it goes first) health. If the group makes it, even if I know it can be done better, I probably won't say anything unless it's some glaring mistakes that I feels needs to be pointed out(or perhaps simply part of the mechanics that needs explained for futher use). If group wipes and wipes and wipes, I will look at my own setup and see what I can change to help the group. And I will ask other people about skills they are using and if they can do <x> instead of <y>, try to give pointers etc. ...and you'd be surprised at how many people turn hostile at that o.O

susmitds · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

you're sharing your perspective but you don't realize that the BIG OBVIOUS PROBLEM IS....

The game suggested you can play as you want, but as you detail, to complete it, you have to play it a specific way per role, class, race, etc.

I don't think anything should go but if you didn't know the fights and class/roles, you wouldn't have been able to complete it with them either. So it does prove that nerfs are the right decision because if only certain builds and certain players can complete it...then its not balanced for the intent the game suggests.

Hey, like I commented earlier, I am all for contradictory builds. My main tank is a NB bosmer dodge tank with 21k hp. And I am confident of being able to complete every dungeon with every race/class combination. But the thing is that the devs should add proper tutorials. And the players should at least try finding out the weaknesses and strengths of their builds. It is not that hard. Like if you can't tank properly, try using different gear and skills and try again. Or if your DPS is low, look up online for builds. You can learn easily and race does not matter much but you don't give the slightest effort and won't even bother to, at least, try out some advice, then don't expect to finish every thing in game.

kojou · April 2016

I actually like running group finder and zone chat groups. Sure you can get in a group that just doesn't have the ability to take the first boss, but as long as the tank is pretty good most of the time you can get a completion even with awful DPS. This month's noobies are next month's elite and I am always on the look out for good players or players that have the potential to be good to "friend" for future runs.

susmitds · April 2016

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

I actually like running group finder and zone chat groups. Sure you can get in a group that just doesn't have the ability to take the first boss, but as long as the tank is pretty good most of the time you can get a completion even with awful DPS. This month's noobies are next month's elite and I am always on the look out for good players or players that have the potential to be good to "friend" for future runs.

That is pretty much why I did not give up and still finished up the dungeon. I got no issues with noobs as long as they learn from mistakes.

RinaldoGandolphi · April 2016

the fact your actually mad about this is quite telling...

its one thing to get mad about bugs, glitches, and lag...its a whole other matter entirely to treat people this way in a thread by throwing them under the bus.

Heaven forbid anyone doesn't take the game as serious as you do....those filthy horrible casuals just shouldn't be allowed to play the game...

Totally Satire by the way, the elitism in the Op is real

WatchYourSixx · April 2016

Couple of things that I would love to point out..

1. Tanks do not need stamina regen, since they cant regen while blocking anyways. It is as useless as health recovery now.

2. Your tone of voice, or tone of chat (depending on platform I suppose) can really make a huge difference. If you say something that implies they dont know what they are doing, they can get defensive. Instead, asking at the beginning of the dungeon, "Has everyone done this before?" If you get no response, just assume yes. IF they die to mechanics, explain the mechanic bc at that point you should now assume at least one person does not know the mechanics. If someone isn't doing their job, like a tank not taunting, ask "Hey tank, are you running inner fire or pierce armor?" Whether you know they are or not, asking that gives them a sense of control in the conversation and they don't assume you know everything like an "elitist." If they say no to either of those, then politely tell them that they need one of those two skills in order to hold aggro on things as that is a mechanic of the game.

In the case of a tank running out of stamina, he's either not using pots, has a really low stamina pool, and/or has no other templar to provide him with shards. AKA his build is wrong, or hes not doing something right that is crucial to tanks. Maybe he's also spamming stamina skills? You shouldn't have any stamina issues as a tank, if you know how to manage it. You cant tank without it.

If someone refuses to accept help from another, then they are not worth your time to even finish the dungeon. That's my opinion at least. I started up a training/PvE guild on PC NA recently, and I've received a overwhelmingly positive feedback on this type of thing. In less than 2 weeks I already have 40+ members that are all active, willing to do pledges and here's the kicker - Willing to learn. Those that have sub-optimal builds want to get better, want to get stronger/more efficient, or they are aware they are not the best they can be. We are all about having that drive to get better, as a growing community, and as PvE players.

Players unwilling to learn should be left alone because they apparently want to play alone. When they realize what they are doing isn't working, they will seek out help.

my 2 cents.

susmitds · April 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

the fact your actually mad about this is quite telling...

its one thing to get mad about bugs, glitches, and lag...its a whole other matter entirely to treat people this way in a thread by throwing them under the bus.

Heaven forbid anyone doesn't take the game as serious as you do....those filthy horrible casuals just shouldn't be allowed to play the game...

Totally Satire by the way, the elitism in the Op is real

Suppose you are playing Skyrim and cannot beat something even at the easiest difficulty with mods active. Does the devs make a easier version of the game for you?

code65536 · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

you're sharing your perspective but you don't realize that the BIG OBVIOUS PROBLEM IS....

The game suggested you can play as you want, but as you detail, to complete it, you have to play it a specific way per role, class, race, etc.

I don't think anything should go but if you didn't know the fights and class/roles, you wouldn't have been able to complete it with them either. So it does prove that nerfs are the right decision because if only certain builds and certain players can complete it...then its not balanced for the intent the game suggests.

Bah, what hogwash.

"Play how you want" does not translate into "Guarantee of success if you don't know how to play."

You don't need min/maxed builds. You don't need perfect gear. There is already a great deal of leeway in this game, but if someone takes it to extremes and insists on doing "DPS" using only light attacks, then they should not expect to be successful in difficult content. And, frankly, that sort of stuff happens all too often.

I've seen the posts on this forum from people who say they can't even complete normal Maelstrom. Yet I can complete normal Maelstrom without wearing any armor or jewelry. At that point, it's not about having the "right" build since I'm in there with literally no build. It's about knowing the basics of how to play the game. You can give people leeway, but there comes a point where you have to draw the line and remember that, inherent to any game, is a challenge--if you declare everyone a winner for just logging in, then what the hell are they playing for?

susmitds · April 2016

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Couple of things that I would love to point out..

1. Tanks do not need stamina regen, since they cant regen while blocking anyways. It is as useless as health recovery now.

2. Your tone of voice, or tone of chat (depending on platform I suppose) can really make a huge difference. If you say something that implies they dont know what they are doing, they can get defensive. Instead, asking at the beginning of the dungeon, "Has everyone done this before?" If you get no response, just assume yes. IF they die to mechanics, explain the mechanic bc at that point you should now assume at least one person does not know the mechanics. If someone isn't doing their job, like a tank not taunting, ask "Hey tank, are you running inner fire or pierce armor?" Whether you know they are or not, asking that gives them a sense of control in the conversation and they don't assume you know everything like an "elitist." If they say no to either of those, then politely tell them that they need one of those two skills in order to hold aggro on things as that is a mechanic of the game.

In the case of a tank running out of stamina, he's either not using pots, has a really low stamina pool, and/or has no other templar to provide him with shards. AKA his build is wrong, or hes not doing something right that is crucial to tanks. Maybe he's also spamming stamina skills? You shouldn't have any stamina issues as a tank, if you know how to manage it. You cant tank without it.

If someone refuses to accept help from another, then they are not worth your time to even finish the dungeon. That's my opinion at least. I started up a training/PvE guild on PC NA recently, and I've received a overwhelmingly positive feedback on this type of thing. In less than 2 weeks I already have 40+ members that are all active, willing to do pledges and here's the kicker - Willing to learn. Those that have sub-optimal builds want to get better, want to get stronger/more efficient, or they are aware they are not the best they can be. We are all about having that drive to get better, as a growing community, and as PvE players.

Players unwilling to learn should be left alone because they apparently want to play alone. When they realize what they are doing isn't working, they will seek out help.

my 2 cents.

Most agreeable. Till ZoS starts making the game easier for the people who doesn't want to learn.

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

I'm curious, what would the tank have used stamina regen for anyway?

I don't find stamina regen very necessary. But the particular tank we had, gave the same excuse of being out of stamina over and over. But he did not like the idea of having the Max HP/Stam regen food, I was offering either.

Valrien · April 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

the fact your actually mad about this is quite telling...

its one thing to get mad about bugs, glitches, and lag...its a whole other matter entirely to treat people this way in a thread by throwing them under the bus.

Heaven forbid anyone doesn't take the game as serious as you do....those filthy horrible casuals just shouldn't be allowed to play the game...

Totally Satire by the way, the elitism in the Op is real

Well, when people suck and want to get better is one thing. When you suck and don't want to get better, why shouldn't people get mad at you for wasting their time? Time is valuable and I for one don't want to spend hours in vCoH (a normally 15 minute or shorter dungeon) because someone doesn't want to try.

There's taking the game seriously (which mainly hardcore players do), and then there's BOTHERING TO TRY...which the people in this group didn't do.

lathbury wrote: »

my last pug run was like this. thats my the small blonde magicka tank. the dude next to me with the heavy armour and sword and board thats one of the dps the one with dualwield yep you guessed it is the healer so as you can imagine vwgt was really successful.

As for your screenshot...the healer using DW isn't that bad. I'd prefer my healer run Destro/Resto so they can slot drain and combat prayer, but DW/Resto or DW/Destro is perfectly fine for healers since DW increases spell damage (the stat) and the damage of spells (5%)...this includes the "damage" of healing.

susmitds · April 2016

Valrien wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

my last pug run was like this. thats my the small blonde magicka tank. the dude next to me with the heavy armour and sword and board thats one of the dps the one with dualwield yep you guessed it is the healer so as you can imagine vwgt was really successful.

As for your screenshot...the healer using DW isn't that bad. I'd prefer my healer run Destro/Resto so they can slot drain and combat prayer, but DW/Resto or DW/Destro is perfectly fine for healers since DW increases spell damage (the stat) and the damage of spells (5%)...this includes the "damage" of healing.

True. But only if the healer is a templar IMO, other classes don't have proper class heals.

timidobserver · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

you're sharing your perspective but you don't realize that the BIG OBVIOUS PROBLEM IS....

The game suggested you can play as you want, but as you detail, to complete it, you have to play it a specific way per role, class, race, etc.

I don't think anything should go but if you didn't know the fights and class/roles, you wouldn't have been able to complete it with them either. So it does prove that nerfs are the right decision because if only certain builds and certain players can complete it...then its not balanced for the intent the game suggests.

I agree. The game says I can play the way I want and I want to remove all of my gear and punch my way through vWGT. ZOS needs to nerf it until I can do that.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

susmitds wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

you're sharing your perspective but you don't realize that the BIG OBVIOUS PROBLEM IS....

The game suggested you can play as you want, but as you detail, to complete it, you have to play it a specific way per role, class, race, etc.

I don't think anything should go but if you didn't know the fights and class/roles, you wouldn't have been able to complete it with them either. So it does prove that nerfs are the right decision because if only certain builds and certain players can complete it...then its not balanced for the intent the game suggests.

Hey, like I commented earlier, I am all for contradictory builds. My main tank is a NB bosmer dodge tank with 21k hp. And I am confident of being able to complete every dungeon with every race/class combination. But the thing is that the devs should add proper tutorials. And the players should at least try finding out the weaknesses and strengths of their builds. It is not that hard. Like if you can't tank properly, try using different gear and skills and try again. Or if your DPS is low, look up online for builds. You can learn easily and race does not matter much but you don't give the slightest effort and won't even bother to, at least, try out some advice, then don't expect to finish every thing in game.

I get where you are coming from and I still struggle with this because like you. I came from the late 1990's playing traditional MMO's and even kept playing the popular guild wars, WoW, etc....but this isn't as role restrictive as any of those intentionally.

It was pointed out to me that...that is how I wanted to play but it wasn't necessarily how the game was designed. So while that way does work...there are a lot of other different ways and me placing that expectation on others wasn't correct.

There are some things that can be just wrong...like being a healer with no healing spells or a tank with no sheilds or something or DPS with all healing spells......but in context for anyone who is playing with a mix off how they want to play....there are only two ZOS guides and one is specific to dungeons so they don't need a tutorial. We prob just need to think about it differently.

Combat - http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2013/03/11/ask-us-anything-combat

Roles - http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2013/07/01/inside-eso-dungeons

Ariisen · April 2016

It's not a good PUG group if the tank isn't a Kajhiit Stamblade with DW.

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

code65536 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

you're sharing your perspective but you don't realize that the BIG OBVIOUS PROBLEM IS....

The game suggested you can play as you want, but as you detail, to complete it, you have to play it a specific way per role, class, race, etc.

I don't think anything should go but if you didn't know the fights and class/roles, you wouldn't have been able to complete it with them either. So it does prove that nerfs are the right decision because if only certain builds and certain players can complete it...then its not balanced for the intent the game suggests.

Bah, what hogwash.

"Play how you want" does not translate into "Guarantee of success if you don't know how to play."

You don't need min/maxed builds. You don't need perfect gear. There is already a great deal of leeway in this game, but if someone takes it to extremes and insists on doing "DPS" using only light attacks, then they should not expect to be successful in difficult content. And, frankly, that sort of stuff happens all too often.

I've seen the posts on this forum from people who say they can't even complete normal Maelstrom. Yet I can complete normal Maelstrom without wearing any armor or jewelry. At that point, it's not about having the "right" build since I'm in there with literally no build. It's about knowing the basics of how to play the game. You can give people leeway, but there comes a point where you have to draw the line and remember that, inherent to any game, is a challenge--if you declare everyone a winner for just logging in, then what the hell are they playing for?

This.
Previous TES games also were "play as you want", but in Morrowind, for example, a char with Trueflame, daedric greatshield enchanted with Almalexia's soul and a full set of daedric armor was much stronger than a char that only used had-to-hand skill and had no armor.
And not everyone in TES fanbase likes super easy gameplay... Otherwise mods like this or this wouldnt be so popular...
We need more variety, after all, TES has always been about that. We cant modify our own game like in single-player games, but there should be something for everyone, as long as its lore friendly.

Elsonso · April 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Or if your DPS is low, look up online for builds.

Just a comment that one of the problems with "DPS is low" is how do they know? What is the proper DPS for a Stamina Nightblade - V13 (for example)? What is the proper DPS for a VR 13 in Wrothgar compared to a VR 13 in Cadwell Silver?

I like the idea of them teaching about combat, and would love it if they would just say what the skills and passives did, rather than having the community figure it out, only to find out that it is bugged. They need to teach animation canceling, too.

But chasing DPS is only useful if you know what to chase.

Rune_Relic · April 2016

Uses an LFG tool that cater for anything from complete beginners to vets.
Get surprised when they are grouped with complete beginners.

You can stand there and get mad.
Or you can go with the flow and LYAO ?
Leave for dinner if you get bored.
There is a point where people will call it a day.

If you want serious....dont use LFG tool.
Group up with a serious team in a guild or known buddies.

Hardcore Tutorials and Proper manuals ? Yes agreed 100%
They shouldnt rely on the community to fill in the blanks.
We need;
A tanking run (with tips and tricks).
A DPS run (with tips and tricks).
A Healing run (with tips and tricks).

lathbury · April 2016

Valrien wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

the fact your actually mad about this is quite telling...

its one thing to get mad about bugs, glitches, and lag...its a whole other matter entirely to treat people this way in a thread by throwing them under the bus.

Heaven forbid anyone doesn't take the game as serious as you do....those filthy horrible casuals just shouldn't be allowed to play the game...

Totally Satire by the way, the elitism in the Op is real

Well, when people suck and want to get better is one thing. When you suck and don't want to get better, why shouldn't people get mad at you for wasting their time? Time is valuable and I for one don't want to spend hours in vCoH (a normally 15 minute or shorter dungeon) because someone doesn't want to try.

There's taking the game seriously (which mainly hardcore players do), and then there's BOTHERING TO TRY...which the people in this group didn't do.

lathbury wrote: »

my last pug run was like this. thats my the small blonde magicka tank. the dude next to me with the heavy armour and sword and board thats one of the dps the one with dualwield yep you guessed it is the healer so as you can imagine vwgt was really successful.

As for your screenshot...the healer using DW isn't that bad. I'd prefer my healer run Destro/Resto so they can slot drain and combat prayer, but DW/Resto or DW/Destro is perfectly fine for healers since DW increases spell damage (the stat) and the damage of spells (5%)...this includes the "damage" of healing.

yes but as you said no drain also we had no caombat prayer

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

code65536 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

you're sharing your perspective but you don't realize that the BIG OBVIOUS PROBLEM IS....

The game suggested you can play as you want, but as you detail, to complete it, you have to play it a specific way per role, class, race, etc.

I don't think anything should go but if you didn't know the fights and class/roles, you wouldn't have been able to complete it with them either. So it does prove that nerfs are the right decision because if only certain builds and certain players can complete it...then its not balanced for the intent the game suggests.

Bah, what hogwash.

"Play how you want" does not translate into "Guarantee of success if you don't know how to play."

You don't need min/maxed builds. You don't need perfect gear. There is already a great deal of leeway in this game, but if someone takes it to extremes and insists on doing "DPS" using only light attacks, then they should not expect to be successful in difficult content. And, frankly, that sort of stuff happens all too often.

I've seen the posts on this forum from people who say they can't even complete normal Maelstrom. Yet I can complete normal Maelstrom without wearing any armor or jewelry. At that point, it's not about having the "right" build since I'm in there with literally no build. It's about knowing the basics of how to play the game. You can give people leeway, but there comes a point where you have to draw the line and remember that, inherent to any game, is a challenge--if you declare everyone a winner for just logging in, then what the hell are they playing for?

That is your opinion....
Here is what ZOS is offering so..in context I think you should give those players leeway because if you're doing MSA naked, then you're unlike most players. Players who cant solo MSA is in no way an indication of how well they play in group content tho.

In my post above...

There are some things that can be just wrong...like being a healer with no healing spells or a tank with no sheilds or something or DPS with all healing spells......but in context for anyone who is playing with a mix off how they want to play....there are only two ZOS guides and one is specific to dungeons so they don't need a tutorial. We prob just need to think about it differently.

Combat - http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2013/03/11/ask-us-anything-combat

Roles - http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2013/07/01/inside-eso-dungeons