ZOS: Yes. Vampires. Again.

ListerJMC · April 2016

On the skins thing, I'd appreciate one which gave me red eyes but didn't turn me purple. Yes, I'm complaining about my Redguard's purpleness again

. I definitely agree we need something subtler, so maybe just a slight paleness as was mentioned. And actually my character's eyes were red-ish to start with so it not effecting the eyes would be ok for me - I think I'd be happy with anything that means I'm not purple at this stage!

PhatGrimReaper · April 2016

I completely understand the arguments against having another fear ability added to the game, but I think a few people are forgetting that Vampirism is a Pro's 'vs' Con's thing.... With the fix to stam regen while sneaking, mist form being broken and a META that favours Upfront damage ultimates over DoT ultimates there are precious few advantages to vampirism other than some very build specific stuff.

NBs will still have the option of a fear ability while not suffering the drawbacks of vampirism (there be a lot of fire siege lately!!), while Vamps will have to deal with the drawbacks in order to have access to this ability.

7788b14_ESO · April 2016

Just make them an entire class. Ultimate would be vampire Lord. They could leave the mixed vamps in.

MornaBaine · April 2016

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

Not to detract from your thoughts, I like your cosmetics suggestions, but I think this is more supportive of the current iteration of vamps that also adds some play style flavor.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/251627/idea-on-fixing-vampires#latest

While I like a lot of what is presented in that proposal it is nothing less than a complete rework of vampires from the ground up. I won't argue that they don't need it for the Divines know they are currently in a miserable state and always have been. But I think such huge and sweeping changes are highly unlikely. Therefore I've tried to keep my own proposal within the bounds of the possible within the existing framework of vampires. These are all things that can be phased in easily and separately. Ergo, with at least a snowflake's chance in hell of actually happening.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 2016

AddictionX wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

emily3989 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

BurritoESO wrote: »

Fear is a bad idea to give to vampires. Reason being, it would take away a bunch of class identity from night blades. Fear is on of the reasons why night blades are so powerful, and giving everyone the ability to use a fear would really negate a lot of the reason to play night blades. Plus, having everyone running around cyrodill using fears left and right would just drive the game into more terrible balance that it already has. It's kind of like asking to add wings, bolt escape, or breath of life to the vamp skill line.

There are a few classes that have overlapping skills though. Both NBs and DKs have gap closers. Why would a fear be so different? I really considered asking for an invisibility for vampires because it's a pretty classic trope but decided to leave that to the NBs, especially since you can use potions for the same thing.

Because there are other ways to get gap closers (wpn skills) which is accessible to all. His point is, fear is a class defining skill and should stay as such.

werewolves have fear upon transformation AND in the skill called "roar".

i believe the skill "pounce" is also a gap closer.

im not familiar with WW skills so please correct me if im wrong

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Werewolf+Skills

WW is different from Vamp since one is a transformation in which you cannot use your class or weapon skills which is the main disadvantage of it. While the other you can use just by having it. You actually have to slot WW in the first place to transform, you dont have to slot a vampire ultimate to use vampire skills.

and you only need to slot it when you actually want to use it, without it you are no different then a normal player and you are indistinguishable from non-vampires, Infact if you not a vampire then their is no reason not to be a werewolf even if it's just for the aesthetic appeal as a non-transformed werewolf has no weakness's at all and the werewolf form has no effect on your human form at all, unlike the vampire who has their weakness's 24/7 and can't get rid of them without becoming mortal again, the vampire should have greater power then the werewolf to make up for the greater weakness that they possess.

Also you can't use your class skills but so what, the werewolf attacks are generally more powerful anyway.

Abeille · April 2016

I would be happy if the vampire skin didn't complete cover any tattoos, body markings or make-up. I took such care when creating my vampire, just for everything to be covered by the vampire skin. So annoying. If it didn't just made your character completely white, despite their original skin/fur/scale color, that would be great. I think vampire skin should look like a corpse's skin, like if that person that became a vampire had died, and not override their skin color completely.

I'm one of the few players that really like how stage 4 look as it fits the plans I had for that character, but I understand that not everybody likes it. I support the addition of a "mortal skin" option. It could be a costume, but I think it would be better if it was a passive because then you would be able to wear an actual costume.

MornaBaine · April 2016

Abeille wrote: »

I would be happy if the vampire skin didn't complete cover any tattoos, body markings or make-up. I took such care when creating my vampire, just for everything to be covered by the vampire skin. So annoying. If it didn't just made your character completely white, despite their original skin/fur/scale color, that would be great. I think vampire skin should look like a corpse's skin, like if that person that became a vampire had died, and not override their skin color completely.

I'm one of the few players that really like how stage 4 look as it fits the plans I had for that character, but I understand that not everybody likes it. I support the addition of a "mortal skin" option. It could be a costume, but I think it would be better if it was a passive because then you would be able to wear an actual costume.

I definitely don't think the Stage 4 look should go away. I know a lot of people actually like it. We just need better ways to maintain the look we like best, regardless of which one it is. I'd be just as happy to see the look of each stage sold as a Skin so that players could permanently keep the look they like best.

Prabooo · April 2016

MornaBaine wrote: »

Prabooo wrote: »

PLEASE ZENIMAX ! LET ME BE ALUCARD! I would pay any amount of crowns, you name the price.

Hopefully that's sarcasm. Most of us want lore appropriate vampires. We also want them to be more fun to play and more visually appealing than they currently are.

No it is not sarcasm. I want Alucard char for me, just for me, the rest can all get high on lore.

MornaBaine · April 2016

Prabooo wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Prabooo wrote: »

PLEASE ZENIMAX ! LET ME BE ALUCARD! I would pay any amount of crowns, you name the price.

Hopefully that's sarcasm. Most of us want lore appropriate vampires. We also want them to be more fun to play and more visually appealing than they currently are.

No it is not sarcasm. I want Alucard char for me, just for me, the rest can all get high on lore.

LOL Alrighty then. Far be it from me to step on your dreams.

bedlom · April 2016

Listen to this guy please Zeni and make it all! Happen. Blessed be the Zeni.
Great post! Awesome suggestions. A huge +1 for you.

Mettaricana · April 2016

Toss in a sorc passives give 2% more wep spell dmg per vamp skill slotted and. 1% less fire dmg taken per slotted skill

OmniDo · April 2016

While the OP's suggestions are neat, give us a reason to feed and have stages at all.
You know, like Sun damage during daytime when at stage 3 or higher.

Example:

Stage 1 - No Sun Damage or Penalty
Stage 2 - No Health Regen in broad Daylight (stormy weather would negate this)
Stage 3 - No Health Regen in broad Daylight, minor Sun Damage; 2.5% health damage per second, giving you a whopping 30 seconds to get out of the daylight; indoors, hop into an outlaw refuge, etc...or just heal it with a resto skill (stormy weather would negate this)
Stage 4 - No Health Regen in broad Daylight, Major Sun Damage; 5% health damage per second, giving you 20 seconds to get out of daylight (stormy weather would negate this)

Note: Penalties would have to sync the client with the server to avoid death from the already ridiculous and completely unnecessary "Load Lag".

If you're going to make our abilities cheaper at a higher stage, fine.
Offset that with a penalty of "OMG the Sun, it burns!"

And before people start whining: "But thats not fair!"
%$#@! please. You're an !@#$'ing vampire. This isnt Toilet, er, Twilight.

That you can stand the sun AT ALL says enough, and also pays homage to Oblivion.
In Oblivion, you couldnt walk out in broad daylight at stage 2 without your skin itching to heck, though you could easily heal through it if you had the spell and magicka regen.
But Stage 3 or 4? Uh, no. You'd practically burn to a cinder in less than 15 seconds, and so you should!

MornaBaine · April 2016

I would love for sun damage to be a thing IF night and day were of equal length (which they should be) AND we had better control over what Stage our vampires are in.

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

the pet should be a undead, a few strains have the inherent ability to raise the dead, so i think it should be some form of zombie or thrall created out of the corpse of a deceased enemy that gets stronger the longer you go without feeding

bloodenragedb14_ESO · April 2016

btw.....love everything about this thread

Valrien · April 2016

OmniDo wrote: »

While the OP's suggestions are neat, give us a reason to feed and have stages at all.
You know, like Sun damage during daytime when at stage 3 or higher.

Example:
Stage 1 - No Sun Damage or Penalty

Stage 2 - No Health Regen in broad Daylight (stormy weather would negate this)

Stage 3 - No Health Regen in broad Daylight, minor Sun Damage; 2.5% health damage per second, giving you a whopping 30 seconds to get out of the daylight; indoors, hop into an outlaw refuge, etc...or just heal it with a resto skill (stormy weather would negate this)

Stage 4 - No Health Regen in broad Daylight, Major Sun Damage; 5% health damage per second, giving you 20 seconds to get out of daylight (stormy weather would negate this)

Note: Penalties would have to sync the client with the server to avoid death from the already ridiculous and completely unnecessary "Load Lag".

If you're going to make our abilities cheaper at a higher stage, fine.
Offset that with a penalty of "OMG the Sun, it burns!"

And before people start whining: "But thats not fair!"
%$#@! please. You're an !@#$'ing vampire. This isnt Toilet, er, Twilight.

That you can stand the sun AT ALL says enough, and also pays homage to Oblivion.
In Oblivion, you couldnt walk out in broad daylight at stage 2 without your skin itching to heck, though you could easily heal through it if you had the spell and magicka regen.
But Stage 3 or 4? Uh, no. You'd practically burn to a cinder in less than 15 seconds, and so you should!

Our strain of vampirism is immune to sun damage.

Xundiin · April 2016

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

Just make them an entire class. Ultimate would be vampire Lord. They could leave the mixed vamps in.

That would break lore. Just because Vampire Lord was put in Skyrim doesn't mean that every Vampire strain has that ability. There are 2-3 different vampire curse/diseases that we know about over the course of the TES games. And we know that each type of strain or clan has different strengths. The strain you are in this game is part of Lamae, who did not have the ability to turn into a Vampire Lord.

MornaBaine · April 2016

Xundiin wrote: »

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

Just make them an entire class. Ultimate would be vampire Lord. They could leave the mixed vamps in.

That would break lore. Just because Vampire Lord was put in Skyrim doesn't mean that every Vampire strain has that ability. There are 2-3 different vampire curse/diseases that we know about over the course of the TES games. And we know that each type of strain or clan has different strengths. The strain you are in this game is part of Lamae, who did not have the ability to turn into a Vampire Lord.

While that's true I'd love to see the possibility of other strains opened up. There are Volkihar vampires in Eastmarch with certainly the suggestion they are similar to the ones found in Skyrim/Dawngard. Even if no other new mechanics or quests appear it would be cool to be able to craft vampires that are similar to the other lore strains.

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

BurritoESO wrote: »

Fear is a bad idea to give to vampires. Reason being, it would take away a bunch of class identity from night blades. Fear is on of the reasons why night blades are so powerful, and giving everyone the ability to use a fear would really negate a lot of the reason to play night blades. Plus, having everyone running around cyrodill using fears left and right would just drive the game into more terrible balance that it already has. It's kind of like asking to add wings, bolt escape, or breath of life to the vamp skill line.

Tho fear makes more sense on a vampire or werewolf. Yes, it is somewhat class defining for NBs. However, it has never made any sense why NBs have fear in the first place. Why fear a ninja person? Deff a reason to fear a vamp or ww. That aside, werewolves already have fear and it does not detract from NBs. I see no issue giving vamps a form of fear, tho the skill would need to be well thought out for balance.

BurritoESO wrote: »

Plus, having everyone running around cyrodill using fears left and right would just drive the game into more terrible balance that it already has

Can't help but lol reading this particular comment. Seems 60+% of Cyrodiil is NBs; with maybe 20-30% being mag Sorc and the remaining 10% being everything else. With the vast majority of the players I encounter being NBs, is this an admission that NBs are a bit too well balanced for PvP? (Note - I play all classes, too include NBs).

phreatophile · April 2016

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

Just make them an entire class. Ultimate would be vampire Lord. They could leave the mixed vamps in.

Even in Skyrim that was ridiculous. At least in Skyrim, because it's single player, the player is one of a very select few who can transform into a Vampire Lord. If many thousands can do it, what kind of Lord are we even talking about?

Shapeshifting is certainly part of broader Vampire lore but much less so with Elder Scrolls Vampires, with Volkihar being the main exception and Telboth of Valenwood who prey on whole families by taking a child and assuming it's form. It could be argued that this is an illusion not a change of form in the Telboth's case. Elder Scrolls Vampires are more apt to use illusion rather than actual shape change.

Another perspective: if someone wants a transform Ultimate, play as a werewolf.

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

MornaBaine wrote: »

Vampires don't really FEEL like vampires.

I agree

MornaBaine wrote: »

Finish the skill line. You can completely fill out your bar with werewolf skills. With Undaunted skills. With Mage Guild Skills. With Fighter's Guild Skills. Please do the same for vampires and give us the following 3 Skills:
1. Gap Closer- One of the things I love best about the bloodfiends we encounter in the game is the way they can simply "blink" up to you. It's spooky and wonderful and I feel our vampires deserve the same ability.
2. Pet- Yes, a fighting pet. Starting as something as innocuous as a wolf with the morphs being either a Giant Bat that simply deals damage or a bloodfiend that perhaps deals less damage but also heals you. In the game bloodfiends are often controlled by greater vampires so it makes perfect sense for player vampires to have available a similar skill.
3. Fear- Realizing you are fighting a vampire SHOULD be a darned scary experience! Please give us a fear!

I agree another skill or two would be great. My concern tho is that werewolves have a full skill bar because they are locked into using those, and only those, skills. Be careful what we wish for as they might give us a full skill bar but decide that with one we are now forced to use only Vamp skills. With that in mind, I think the current skills need a rework before possibly adding more skills, and even tho I support a vamp having fear, I think the gap closer is the best of the ideas and possibly the only one that should be added as to not lock vamps into a vamp only skill bar.

MornaBaine wrote: »

And yes, one new Passive: Charm-Much like the Feed ability, this option should pop when your vampire is in proximity to an NPC they could in fact feed on. It would act as an alternate Feed ability that would only work on non-hostile NPCs and would NOT cause the NPC to aggro after it breaks. This is in line with the previous TES games where your vampires could in fact feed undetected in some situations.

Vamps already have an impressive array of passives. Not sure they need another. Charm does indeed sound very vampirish. However, I am not sure it could be implemented without having adverse effects on the Justice systice, Thieve's Guild quests, and possibly even Dark Brotherhood quests. Hate to be a nay sayer, but I don't think you will see this come to fruition.

MornaBaine wrote: »

The Stage Timers: PLEASE switch Stage 1 and Stage 3, making Stage 1 the longest lasting timer of 90 minutes. This will allow vampires to not look completely awful for a far more reasonable length of time, which may only matter to roleplayers but will not affect the experience of all those players who prefer to keep their vampires in Stage 4 for the advantages that Stage confers. Overall the time to reach Stage 4 is unaffected.

I agree there should be a way to stay in stage 1 longer for cosmetics reasons and for the RP community. Plus, it would help vamp tanks, who care about health regen, perform better. At a minimum, the stage 1 timer should be long enough to get you thru a dungeon run. Or maybe the stage timer should stop once you load into a dungeon or trial.

MornaBaine wrote: »

...there's no real reason player vampires must always look as if they are suffering from some horrible disease.

Agree completely

MornaBaine wrote: »

Mist Costume: Applying this costume would have your vampire become a mist just like in the Mist ability but visually only, conferring no mechanics advantages. This mist would be minus the green or red streaking of the morphs for the ability.

Bats Trinket: Activating this trinket would summon a small cloud of bats that would hover around the vampire, similar in appearance to the bats in the vampire Ultimate but much smaller in scale and MUCH quieter.

Support the idesa as long as they do not function in PvP enabled areas.

KingDuncanVII · April 2016

Vampires probably only get two active abilities because they have passives that are always active. Werewolves, on the other hand, only get to take advantage once they muster up the 300 Ult to use it and carefully decide when they want to use because it can take a while to get it back.

And even then, when you transform into a Werewolf, you lose a lot of the perks you had before you transformed.

Note: I play Vampire on my primary.

Xundiin · April 2016

MornaBaine wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

Just make them an entire class. Ultimate would be vampire Lord. They could leave the mixed vamps in.

That would break lore. Just because Vampire Lord was put in Skyrim doesn't mean that every Vampire strain has that ability. There are 2-3 different vampire curse/diseases that we know about over the course of the TES games. And we know that each type of strain or clan has different strengths. The strain you are in this game is part of Lamae, who did not have the ability to turn into a Vampire Lord.

While that's true I'd love to see the possibility of other strains opened up. There are Volkihar vampires in Eastmarch with certainly the suggestion they are similar to the ones found in Skyrim/Dawngard. Even if no other new mechanics or quests appear it would be cool to be able to craft vampires that are similar to the other lore strains.

Those where Volkihar? really? huh. But yeah, I think what might be intersting is if we had vampire strains that where locked behind faction areas. So for example, if the eastmarch vampires are Volkihar, if you want the Vampire Lord ability then you'd have to get infected by an EP vampire. If you want say the bat Ult then either AD or DC, though I think AD might get that one.... maybe. THen DC would be a different clan with a different ult.

Also, if you where infected by say a Volkihar vampire then your play style would be similar to the way WW play.

Just a thought. It would be a nightmare to balance though.

LiquidSchwartz · April 2016

Well they said theyre reworking it so maybe

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

Xundiin wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

Just make them an entire class. Ultimate would be vampire Lord. They could leave the mixed vamps in.

That would break lore. Just because Vampire Lord was put in Skyrim doesn't mean that every Vampire strain has that ability. There are 2-3 different vampire curse/diseases that we know about over the course of the TES games. And we know that each type of strain or clan has different strengths. The strain you are in this game is part of Lamae, who did not have the ability to turn into a Vampire Lord.

While that's true I'd love to see the possibility of other strains opened up. There are Volkihar vampires in Eastmarch with certainly the suggestion they are similar to the ones found in Skyrim/Dawngard. Even if no other new mechanics or quests appear it would be cool to be able to craft vampires that are similar to the other lore strains.

Those where Volkihar? really? huh. But yeah, I think what might be intersting is if we had vampire strains that where locked behind faction areas. So for example, if the eastmarch vampires are Volkihar, if you want the Vampire Lord ability then you'd have to get infected by an EP vampire. If you want say the bat Ult then either AD or DC, though I think AD might get that one.... maybe. THen DC would be a different clan with a different ult.

Also, if you where infected by say a Volkihar vampire then your play style would be similar to the way WW play.

Just a thought. It would be a nightmare to balance though.

Cool idea, but I don't see the devs taking the time to code it. They seem to do the bare minimum

Nogawd · April 2016

Yeah, count me in with some others...

I created a dark skinned Argonian, basically black, with other character marks and paint to make him look unique.

Of course after vampire, he is completely white, basically an albino with no character showing.

This is what I like the least about it. I would like some type of change, something. It's basically something I deal with for a stealth speed buff. Like some others have said, the other abilities are not very usable right now.

MornaBaine · April 2016

Xundiin wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

Just make them an entire class. Ultimate would be vampire Lord. They could leave the mixed vamps in.

That would break lore. Just because Vampire Lord was put in Skyrim doesn't mean that every Vampire strain has that ability. There are 2-3 different vampire curse/diseases that we know about over the course of the TES games. And we know that each type of strain or clan has different strengths. The strain you are in this game is part of Lamae, who did not have the ability to turn into a Vampire Lord.

While that's true I'd love to see the possibility of other strains opened up. There are Volkihar vampires in Eastmarch with certainly the suggestion they are similar to the ones found in Skyrim/Dawngard. Even if no other new mechanics or quests appear it would be cool to be able to craft vampires that are similar to the other lore strains.

Those where Volkihar? really? huh. But yeah, I think what might be intersting is if we had vampire strains that where locked behind faction areas. So for example, if the eastmarch vampires are Volkihar, if you want the Vampire Lord ability then you'd have to get infected by an EP vampire. If you want say the bat Ult then either AD or DC, though I think AD might get that one.... maybe. THen DC would be a different clan with a different ult.

Also, if you where infected by say a Volkihar vampire then your play style would be similar to the way WW play.

Just a thought. It would be a nightmare to balance though.

DC should get the Glenmoril Wyrd vampires.
Vampires of Iliac Bay

The Glenmoril Wyrd vampires live in the Breton cities of High Rock, though no information about their abilities or feeding habits is known. It is known, however, that they are one of the tribes considered more intelligent (and threatening) by the Order vampires of Cyrodiil; possibly implying that, like the Order, they live disguised among the normal population as stealthy manipulators.[21]

And they should look mortal!

OmniDo · April 2016

Valrien wrote: »

Our strain of vampirism is immune to sun damage.

I wasnt aware that ANY Vampire "Strains" or variants in Tamriel were immune to Sun damage.
They merely had different appearances and abilities, none of which conferred immunity to sun damage.

I mean whats the point? If sunlight doesnt hurt vampires any more than anyone else, then neither should fire.
In fact, !@#$ it. We'll all just be immortal blood drinkers, immune to everything.

Oh wait, thats Twilight...

Xundiin · April 2016

OmniDo wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Our strain of vampirism is immune to sun damage.

I wasnt aware that ANY Vampire "Strains" or variants in Tamriel were immune to Sun damage.
They merely had different appearances and abilities, none of which conferred immunity to sun damage.

I mean whats the point? If sunlight doesnt hurt vampires any more than anyone else, then neither should fire.
In fact, !@#$ it. We'll all just be immortal blood drinkers, immune to everything.

Oh wait, thats Twilight...

Bram Stokers Dracula could walk around during the day with out bursting into flames, though he was rather weak and could only really keep his illusion of a mortal and use seduction powers.

Also Skyrims Vampires could walk around in the sun, they just where weaker. No regen and penalty to magicka, stamina, and health.

OmniDo · April 2016

Xundiin wrote: »

Bram Stokers Dracula could walk around during the day with out bursting into flames, though he was rather weak and could only really keep his illusion of a mortal and use seduction powers.
Also Skyrims Vampires could walk around in the sun, they just where weaker. No regen and penalty to magicka, stamina, and health.

The world of Bram Stoker was a singular universe, because Dracula was the ONLY vampire in existence.

And as far as Skyrim is concerned, they only introduced that crap because people complained about it in Oblivion.

Im all for resisting sunlight because youre !@#$'ing awesome and earned it, but only under that condition.
Otherwise vampires are just "Plasmavores" who sparkle in sunlight.