ZOS: Yes. Vampires. Again.

MornaBaine · April 2016

Dear ZOS,

Vampires don't really FEEL like vampires. After 2 years of thought and consideration (and yes, a staggering amount of posts dealing with the subject), I have come to the following conclusions as to what would fix this.

Finish the skill line. You can completely fill out your bar with werewolf skills. With Undaunted skills. With Mage Guild Skills. With Fighter's Guild Skills. Please do the same for vampires and give us the following 3 Skills:

1. Gap Closer- One of the things I love best about the bloodfiends we encounter in the game is the way they can simply "blink" up to you. It's spooky and wonderful and I feel our vampires deserve the same ability.
2. Pet- Yes, a fighting pet. Starting as something as innocuous as a wolf with the morphs being either a Giant Bat that simply deals damage or a bloodfiend that perhaps deals less damage but also heals you. In the game bloodfiends are often controlled by greater vampires so it makes perfect sense for player vampires to have available a similar skill.
3. Fear- Realizing you are fighting a vampire SHOULD be a darned scary experience! Please give us a fear!

And yes, one new Passive:
Charm-Much like the Feed ability, this option should pop when your vampire is in proximity to an NPC they could in fact feed on. It would act as an alternate Feed ability that would only work on non-hostile NPCs and would NOT cause the NPC to aggro after it breaks. This is in line with the previous TES games where your vampires could in fact feed undetected in some situations.

The Stage Timers:
PLEASE switch Stage 1 and Stage 3, making Stage 1 the longest lasting timer of 90 minutes. This will allow vampires to not look completely awful for a far more reasonable length of time, which may only matter to roleplayers but will not affect the experience of all those players who prefer to keep their vampires in Stage 4 for the advantages that Stage confers. Overall the time to reach Stage 4 is unaffected.

Cosmetics:
Please give vampires their fangs. And some emotes to go along with them, even if these emotes are Crown Store items.
Please redo the Feed animation. Instead of the giant gout of garden hose style blood, please have vampires grapple their victims from behind and bite their necks. While I realize this will be a far more complex animation I think it can be done and would add greatly to immersion. Should you also give us the Charm Passive mentioned above the animation for it should perhaps be from the front, with the vampire more subtly embracing their victim as they drink from their neck.

Crown Store Items

Mortal Skin- This Skin would return your vampire to the appearance they had BEFORE becoming vampires and would override the appearance conferred by the Stages.
Various NPC vampires look "normal" when you encounter them initially, most notably Count Verandis Ravenwatch and Heloise. During the vampire quest itself Lamae Bal has dialogue that clearly indicates that her "children" SHOULD be able to "blend in" to mortal society.

Therefore there's no real reason player vampires must always look as if they are suffering from some horrible disease.

Glenmoril Wyrd Skin- This skin would leave your vampire with Stage 1 skin but would NOT affect eye color, makeup or tattoos. For those who prefer their vamps to look subtly vampiric. Name taken from the Strain of High Rock vampires that are also noted for their ability to blend in to mortal society along with the Order vampires of Cyrodiil. Skin could easily be called Cyrodiilic Skin instead. Either way, I believe it would prove popular with players.

Mist Costume: Applying this costume would have your vampire become a mist just like in the Mist ability but visually only, conferring no mechanics advantages. This mist would be minus the green or red streaking of the morphs for the ability.

Bats Trinket: Activating this trinket would summon a small cloud of bats that would hover around the vampire, similar in appearance to the bats in the vampire Ultimate but much smaller in scale and MUCH quieter.

Thank you for your consideration on this issue that continues to plague players and leads to a high amount of dissatisfaction among those of us who play vampires.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 2016

"Mist Costume: Applying this costume would have your vampire become a mist just like in the Mist ability but visually only, conferring no mechanics advantages. This mist would be minus the green or red streaking of the morphs for the ability."

You know that would give some players a camo advantage when in PVP, Its hard enough to track fast moving vampire while they are moving around in mistform as it is, take away those red lines and in some locations where their is a lot of mist or smoke then they might as well be invisible.

MornaBaine · April 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

"Mist Costume: Applying this costume would have your vampire become a mist just like in the Mist ability but visually only, conferring no mechanics advantages. This mist would be minus the green or red streaking of the morphs for the ability."

You know that would give some players a camo advantage when in PVP, Its hard enough to track fast moving vampire while they are moving around in mistform as it is, take away those red lines and in some locations where their is a lot of mist or smoke then they might as well be invisible.

Many things have been coded not to work in Cyrodiil. This could easily be one of them.

Van_0S · April 2016

OP,
Finish skill line - No, be a NB to get all those features you listed and for pet use shade.

Passives- interesting.

Stage timers- Yes!

Mortal skin and Glenmoril Wyrd -Yes!!! Plz implement this ZOS!

Mist costume-Yes! But PvE only.

Bats Trinket- Yes!! Good idea!!

emily3989 · April 2016

I agree with most OP, fun ideas.

As far as stages, someone else had the idea of being able to control which stage you are on, and making them more diverse. Such as, you what to go from 3-2? Suck a neck. Go from 2-3? Find a coffin somewhere and take a nap. This would be great IMO, half the time I have to open my character screen just to see what phase I am in, I rarely know.

Rex-Umbra · April 2016

Just cured my Vamp but will be looking for a bite if the revamping is worth it.

Brrrofski · April 2016

Fix mist form for starters.

Buff the movement speed backup how it was. It's now slower than sprint. Completely useless.

Ritzey01 · April 2016

The Stage Timers:
PLEASE switch Stage 1 and Stage 3, making Stage 1 the longest lasting timer of 90 minutes. This will allow vampires to not look completely awful for a far more reasonable length of time, which may only matter to roleplayers but will not affect the experience of all those players who prefer to keep their vampires in Stage 4 for the advantages that Stage confers. Overall the time to reach Stage 4 is unaffected.

This would also give you time to finish a dungeon with needing to feed 1/2 way through.

BurritoESO · April 2016

Fear is a bad idea to give to vampires. Reason being, it would take away a bunch of class identity from night blades. Fear is on of the reasons why night blades are so powerful, and giving everyone the ability to use a fear would really negate a lot of the reason to play night blades. Plus, having everyone running around cyrodill using fears left and right would just drive the game into more terrible balance that it already has. It's kind of like asking to add wings, bolt escape, or breath of life to the vamp skill line.

MornaBaine · April 2016

BurritoESO wrote: »

Fear is a bad idea to give to vampires. Reason being, it would take away a bunch of class identity from night blades. Fear is on of the reasons why night blades are so powerful, and giving everyone the ability to use a fear would really negate a lot of the reason to play night blades. Plus, having everyone running around cyrodill using fears left and right would just drive the game into more terrible balance that it already has. It's kind of like asking to add wings, bolt escape, or breath of life to the vamp skill line.

There are a few classes that have overlapping skills though. Both NBs and DKs have gap closers. Why would a fear be so different? I really considered asking for an invisibility for vampires because it's a pretty classic trope but decided to leave that to the NBs, especially since you can use potions for the same thing.

MornaBaine · April 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

Fix mist form for starters.

Buff the movement speed backup how it was. It's now slower than sprint. Completely useless.

Agreed. I am hoping the mention of fixes for vampires in the DB press release will include that!

emily3989 · April 2016

MornaBaine wrote: »

BurritoESO wrote: »

Fear is a bad idea to give to vampires. Reason being, it would take away a bunch of class identity from night blades. Fear is on of the reasons why night blades are so powerful, and giving everyone the ability to use a fear would really negate a lot of the reason to play night blades. Plus, having everyone running around cyrodill using fears left and right would just drive the game into more terrible balance that it already has. It's kind of like asking to add wings, bolt escape, or breath of life to the vamp skill line.

There are a few classes that have overlapping skills though. Both NBs and DKs have gap closers. Why would a fear be so different? I really considered asking for an invisibility for vampires because it's a pretty classic trope but decided to leave that to the NBs, especially since you can use potions for the same thing.

Because there are other ways to get gap closers (wpn skills) which is accessible to all. His point is, fear is a class defining skill and should stay as such.

STEVIL · April 2016

Agree with most of these but mechanically i want to see the drain skill gain more healing possibly linked to stage.

Fear - no. Realizing i am fighting a vamp isnt scarier than "that's not a house. Its a spider."

MornaBaine · April 2016

emily3989 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

BurritoESO wrote: »

Fear is a bad idea to give to vampires. Reason being, it would take away a bunch of class identity from night blades. Fear is on of the reasons why night blades are so powerful, and giving everyone the ability to use a fear would really negate a lot of the reason to play night blades. Plus, having everyone running around cyrodill using fears left and right would just drive the game into more terrible balance that it already has. It's kind of like asking to add wings, bolt escape, or breath of life to the vamp skill line.

There are a few classes that have overlapping skills though. Both NBs and DKs have gap closers. Why would a fear be so different? I really considered asking for an invisibility for vampires because it's a pretty classic trope but decided to leave that to the NBs, especially since you can use potions for the same thing.

Because there are other ways to get gap closers (wpn skills) which is accessible to all. His point is, fear is a class defining skill and should stay as such.

I think that comes from the mentality of too many other MMOs where classes are rigid and with no overlap. Hybrid builds, using other classes than Templars as healers, magicka DKs and Stam Sorcs..this is the thing that actually lets ESO stand apart from other MMOs. I would love a game where I frankly have no idea what class another character is,where there is a freedom in the skill lines to let you viably build virtually anything. I want to see ESO keep going in that direction, not backing away from it.

Nogawd · April 2016

Fantastic write up. I have been a vamp from the start. Even with the nerf they went through, I could not cure because I am so used to the sneak speed.

I would love the changes you suggested personally.

MornaBaine · April 2016

Also, I am open to hearing what other 3 skills people think would be good. Not totally married to the ones I've chosen but I strongly feel that there NEEDS to be three more and that they need to really speak to being a vampire. So go ahead, share your ideas!

Saint314Louis1985 · April 2016

emily3989 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

BurritoESO wrote: »

Fear is a bad idea to give to vampires. Reason being, it would take away a bunch of class identity from night blades. Fear is on of the reasons why night blades are so powerful, and giving everyone the ability to use a fear would really negate a lot of the reason to play night blades. Plus, having everyone running around cyrodill using fears left and right would just drive the game into more terrible balance that it already has. It's kind of like asking to add wings, bolt escape, or breath of life to the vamp skill line.

There are a few classes that have overlapping skills though. Both NBs and DKs have gap closers. Why would a fear be so different? I really considered asking for an invisibility for vampires because it's a pretty classic trope but decided to leave that to the NBs, especially since you can use potions for the same thing.

Because there are other ways to get gap closers (wpn skills) which is accessible to all. His point is, fear is a class defining skill and should stay as such.

werewolves have fear upon transformation AND in the skill called "roar".

i believe the skill "pounce" is also a gap closer.

im not familiar with WW skills so please correct me if im wrong

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Werewolf+Skills

GRYM.LOCKE · April 2016

@MornaBaine

your kidding right? They have done nothing for werewolves in 19 months…

you expect these G.H.M to do anything for vamps?

Saint314Louis1985 · April 2016

wrong button

nine9six · April 2016

Would love the gap closer and fear.

emily3989 · April 2016

I don't need a link, I have a WW as well, totally forgot about that fear ability.

I was just clarifying his point btw, I don't have anything against a vampire fear implementation personally.

Anyway, in PVE, I can't remember every using that fear, I am typically just cracking skulls as fast as I can, the last think I want is for them to run away.

Not sure how used it is in pvp.

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

Those are really good ideas!
And...

MornaBaine wrote: »

2. Pet- Yes, a fighting pet. Starting as something as innocuous as a wolf with the morphs being either a Giant Bat that simply deals damage or a bloodfiend that perhaps deals less damage but also heals you. In the game bloodfiends are often controlled by greater vampires so it makes perfect sense for player vampires to have available a similar skill.

Maybe something like death hound?

MornaBaine · April 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Those are really good ideas!
And...

MornaBaine wrote: »

2. Pet- Yes, a fighting pet. Starting as something as innocuous as a wolf with the morphs being either a Giant Bat that simply deals damage or a bloodfiend that perhaps deals less damage but also heals you. In the game bloodfiends are often controlled by greater vampires so it makes perfect sense for player vampires to have available a similar skill.

Maybe something like death hound?

Oh how freaking awesome would THAT be??? YES!!

MornaBaine · April 2016

GRYM.LOCKE wrote: »

@MornaBaine

your kidding right? They have done nothing for werewolves in 19 months…

you expect these G.H.M to do anything for vamps?

I would be happy to read and contribute to a thread discussing werewolves. I'd even try not to derail it into a thread about vampires. So please feel free to start one.

Egonieser · April 2016

emily3989 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

BurritoESO wrote: »

Fear is a bad idea to give to vampires. Reason being, it would take away a bunch of class identity from night blades. Fear is on of the reasons why night blades are so powerful, and giving everyone the ability to use a fear would really negate a lot of the reason to play night blades. Plus, having everyone running around cyrodill using fears left and right would just drive the game into more terrible balance that it already has. It's kind of like asking to add wings, bolt escape, or breath of life to the vamp skill line.

There are a few classes that have overlapping skills though. Both NBs and DKs have gap closers. Why would a fear be so different? I really considered asking for an invisibility for vampires because it's a pretty classic trope but decided to leave that to the NBs, especially since you can use potions for the same thing.

Because there are other ways to get gap closers (wpn skills) which is accessible to all. His point is, fear is a class defining skill and should stay as such.

Werewolves have fear too so this point is moot. It works exactly the same way as NB fear minus the snare.

emily3989 · April 2016

Egonieser wrote: »

emily3989 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

BurritoESO wrote: »

Fear is a bad idea to give to vampires. Reason being, it would take away a bunch of class identity from night blades. Fear is on of the reasons why night blades are so powerful, and giving everyone the ability to use a fear would really negate a lot of the reason to play night blades. Plus, having everyone running around cyrodill using fears left and right would just drive the game into more terrible balance that it already has. It's kind of like asking to add wings, bolt escape, or breath of life to the vamp skill line.

There are a few classes that have overlapping skills though. Both NBs and DKs have gap closers. Why would a fear be so different? I really considered asking for an invisibility for vampires because it's a pretty classic trope but decided to leave that to the NBs, especially since you can use potions for the same thing.

Because there are other ways to get gap closers (wpn skills) which is accessible to all. His point is, fear is a class defining skill and should stay as such.

Werewolves have fear too so this point is moot. It works exactly the same way as NB fear minus the snare.

True, but you are not a WW 100% of the time like you are a vamp or NB, so it does not work the same.

Saint314Louis1985 · April 2016

emily3989 wrote: »

Egonieser wrote: »

emily3989 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

BurritoESO wrote: »

Fear is a bad idea to give to vampires. Reason being, it would take away a bunch of class identity from night blades. Fear is on of the reasons why night blades are so powerful, and giving everyone the ability to use a fear would really negate a lot of the reason to play night blades. Plus, having everyone running around cyrodill using fears left and right would just drive the game into more terrible balance that it already has. It's kind of like asking to add wings, bolt escape, or breath of life to the vamp skill line.

There are a few classes that have overlapping skills though. Both NBs and DKs have gap closers. Why would a fear be so different? I really considered asking for an invisibility for vampires because it's a pretty classic trope but decided to leave that to the NBs, especially since you can use potions for the same thing.

Because there are other ways to get gap closers (wpn skills) which is accessible to all. His point is, fear is a class defining skill and should stay as such.

Werewolves have fear too so this point is moot. It works exactly the same way as NB fear minus the snare.

True, but you are not a WW 100% of the time like you are a vamp or NB, so it does not work the same.

Yes but as a vamp you have the penalties 100% of the time so you can access the skills all the time. You only have access to the skills as a WW when you take the penalty. Seems fair.

MornaBaine · April 2016

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

emily3989 wrote: »

Egonieser wrote: »

emily3989 wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

BurritoESO wrote: »

Fear is a bad idea to give to vampires. Reason being, it would take away a bunch of class identity from night blades. Fear is on of the reasons why night blades are so powerful, and giving everyone the ability to use a fear would really negate a lot of the reason to play night blades. Plus, having everyone running around cyrodill using fears left and right would just drive the game into more terrible balance that it already has. It's kind of like asking to add wings, bolt escape, or breath of life to the vamp skill line.

There are a few classes that have overlapping skills though. Both NBs and DKs have gap closers. Why would a fear be so different? I really considered asking for an invisibility for vampires because it's a pretty classic trope but decided to leave that to the NBs, especially since you can use potions for the same thing.

Because there are other ways to get gap closers (wpn skills) which is accessible to all. His point is, fear is a class defining skill and should stay as such.

Werewolves have fear too so this point is moot. It works exactly the same way as NB fear minus the snare.

True, but you are not a WW 100% of the time like you are a vamp or NB, so it does not work the same.

Yes but as a vamp you have the penalties 100% of the time so you can access the skills all the time. You only have access to the skills as a WW when you take the penalty. Seems fair.

Exactly this. I hope we won't get bogged down in yet another werewolves vs vampires debate though. I was never against werewolves having full time passives benefits so long as they also took the poison damage in human form but that was sadly never the case. I think it made a lot of sense from a lore perspective.

emily3989 · April 2016

We were mostly talking about releasing a fear ability to the entire player-base outside of just NBs. His point was that WW fear is already there and the same so no biggie.

My point is simply:

Sure you can fear as a WW, but it is limited to when in form, and you have increased vulnerabilities during that time (poison, fighter's guild abilities).

whereas:

NB fear is an all the time whenever your want class ability with no real downside attached.

So to me, there is a definite difference. WW can be avoided if seen a lot easier than a NB, which you may not immediately recognize as such.

BenLocoDete · April 2016

MornaBaine wrote: »

Dear ZOS,

The Stage Timers:
(...)
Cosmetics:
(...)
Mortal Skin- This Skin would return your vampire to the appearance they had BEFORE becoming vampires and would (...)

(...)

I agree entirely with the first suggestions of your post, about the changes to the feed animation, the skill line, and the charm spell. But I'd keep the 4 stages as they are to stay close to the lore and TES previous vampires, and have stage 1 almost unoticeable with no changes to the eyes and just slightly paler skin. The other suggestions I don't disagree, but would be already satisfied if those were implemented into the game.

Lord_Wrath · April 2016

I agree with gap closer, fear and stage 1 & 3 being switched.