[Read OP before voting] Do you want the nerf to the remaining "challenging" dungeons?

Cogo · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

Both Dungeons and the world from level 1, needs to be MORE challenging, not less!

ESO is a great game, but please stop "fixing" things with nerfs!

The world bosses in thief guild, are quite alright balanced. The world bosses in the rest of Tamriel is a joke.

The champion points system as account wide was a huge mistake. Made alts pointless to play. (since they can solo everything).

Make CPs char progress just like skill points, and crank up dungeons.

THAT, would be "new content"!

Thelon · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

MissBizz wrote: »

Although when it's in a daily quest (pledge) and the game very much so supports PUG's doing said content together, I'd like to see it doable for almost all of the player base.

If the content is too difficult for PUGs, it should be nerfed?

TormodoftheNorth · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

There isn't any really challenging 4 man content now... if they nerf these "challenging" dungeons then they will have to add newer, more difficult content or update other content to make it more challenging. Considering that i can tank and heal CoA at the same time while wearing 5 julianos and 2 kena with willpower jewelery and not even die once i would barely classify it as "Challenging"

Ra'Shtar · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

I'm not exactly the most talented PvE player i used to be a healer and on cake week i level a magicka DK to vr16 and i can only sustain 21k dps which is not that great (self buffs) but i plan on improving i just need to get to know the class a bit more. Not being able to complete vICP is fine but don't complain because there is challenge in the game go do normal or try to find a group that wouldn't mind carrying you trough it.

lonewolf26 · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

It took some time, and some strategy discussions, but I'm finding these two dungeons have gotten easier each time I've done them. Content like this has really lead me to improve my game. I'll be sad to see it nerfed.

That being said, I guess time for me to put my plan on soloing the first boss of veteran WGT into high gear before the nerf hammer comes down on it.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Geez please learn how to make an unbiased poll or just create a discussion.
For PuG purposes which is the point, it's good.

We've not tested it on PTS so no other feedback.

This dungeons are extremely Pug-able no need to turn them in another Wayrest Sewers like dungeon where you can complete it with just 1 ability in your bars.

Is it really cause on normal I've been in a recent group this week where it literally took over an hour and a half cause the other three had never done it and had to watch vids for each boss fight. I'm talking 5-6 wipes per boss before stopping to watch a vid and all while doing voice chat to try and help explain the fights.

Do-able varies depending on group members so as far as a PUG it can be in-doable. I was the healer and the tank was really good but I've had some days especially on bet where the bosses one shot everyone and I'm running around trying to heal and Rez them but they just aren't ready due to the high dmg output of the NPCs and boss fights.

How do you wipe on normal? i soloed that thing....

How do I...that's not the question ....how does the group wipe ?
Easy....you start a fight and guess wrong.
It's not like the game has video and dungeon info in the interface like WoW. We aren't on PC so u can't alt tab while playing.

There are no addons it's just read and react on console and while I find it most rewarding, it's easy to wipe on normal with a level 35, 25 VR10 and a VR16.

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Geez please learn how to make an unbiased poll or just create a discussion.
For PuG purposes which is the point, it's good.

We've not tested it on PTS so no other feedback.

This dungeons are extremely Pug-able no need to turn them in another Wayrest Sewers like dungeon where you can complete it with just 1 ability in your bars.

Is it really cause on normal I've been in a recent group this week where it literally took over an hour and a half cause the other three had never done it and had to watch vids for each boss fight. I'm talking 5-6 wipes per boss before stopping to watch a vid and all while doing voice chat to try and help explain the fights.

Do-able varies depending on group members so as far as a PUG it can be in-doable. I was the healer and the tank was really good but I've had some days especially on bet where the bosses one shot everyone and I'm running around trying to heal and Rez them but they just aren't ready due to the high dmg output of the NPCs and boss fights.

How do you wipe on normal? i soloed that thing....

How do I...that's not the question ....how does the group wipe ?
Easy....you start a fight and guess wrong.
It's not like the game has video and dungeon info in the interface like WoW. We aren't on PC so u can't alt tab while playing.

There are no addons it's just read and react on console and while I find it most rewarding, it's easy to wipe on normal with a level 35, 25 VR10 and a VR16.

No addons yet one of the console guilds did 3rd (?) worlds clear of vMoL...
Console players =/= bad.

Ra'Shtar · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Geez please learn how to make an unbiased poll or just create a discussion.
For PuG purposes which is the point, it's good.

We've not tested it on PTS so no other feedback.

This dungeons are extremely Pug-able no need to turn them in another Wayrest Sewers like dungeon where you can complete it with just 1 ability in your bars.

Is it really cause on normal I've been in a recent group this week where it literally took over an hour and a half cause the other three had never done it and had to watch vids for each boss fight. I'm talking 5-6 wipes per boss before stopping to watch a vid and all while doing voice chat to try and help explain the fights.

Do-able varies depending on group members so as far as a PUG it can be in-doable. I was the healer and the tank was really good but I've had some days especially on bet where the bosses one shot everyone and I'm running around trying to heal and Rez them but they just aren't ready due to the high dmg output of the NPCs and boss fights.

How do you wipe on normal? i soloed that thing....

How do I...that's not the question ....how does the group wipe ?
Easy....you start a fight and guess wrong.
It's not like the game has video and dungeon info in the interface like WoW. We aren't on PC so u can't alt tab while playing.

There are no addons it's just read and react on console and while I find it most rewarding, it's easy to wipe on normal with a level 35, 25 VR10 and a VR16.

No addons yet one of the console guilds did 3rd (?) worlds clear of vMoL...
Console players =/= bad.

This, being on a console doesn't mean you don't have to make effort on learning things and gives you extra rights to QQ about difficulty.

Thelon · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

We aren't on PC so u can't alt tab while playing...There are no addons it's just read and react on console

daemonios · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

I'm guessing by their logic, veteran Crypt of Hearts should be nerfed as well? I've been in plenty of PUG groups that can't seem to handle that one particularly well...

I've said this on the thread with the questions for PAX East and I'll say it here: ZOS are sending the wrong message to players. They're basically telling them they don't need to have any skill at all, they will be rewarded in any case. I think a normal player who fails at a dungeon would be curious as to WHY they failed and try to fix it, but no... Apparently they petition for content to be made easier and have their wish granted.

Let me be clear about this: any of these dungeons can be cleared easily with all-crafted gear (no farmed dropped sets required, no legendary improvement required) if you just know your role and do it. You don't need 20k+ dps to do it. I've even done vICP with no freaking healer. This nerf is the worst news in the DB announcement, by far.

Magdalina · April 2016

Wait...nerfed AGAIN?o_O Tbh when I saw that in the patch notes I was actually kind of hoping for a buff...Ibomez has already been nerfed into nothing(that on top of the original nerf shortly after launch), the DoT on Planar has been all but removed...why on Earth would you nerf them even moar?

A couple of my friends have 2 manned(also HM and no death) vCoA and 2 manned vWGT and vICP(all v16) as well. @Thelon here has soloed vCoA. I was in a pug yesterday in vCoA and the dps was severely lacking(I was healing, and the group was also too squishy for me to add significantly to the dps; they were all stamina though I think so that probably didn't help) so Valkyn was consistently at like 1/3 health with 3rd platform gone and squishy people would die soon as it broke pretty much; one of those times I got Valkyn from like ~1/3 health to like 5% on my own, in healing gear, with skills setup for support, not solo surviveability...I only died because I ran into the stupid and managed to get cc'd on top of 2 AoEs(having 9k stam didn't help, but then I wasn't quite expecting to have to solo). ...we ended up not getting it in the end because the dps just wasn't there and trying to keep them up after platforms went down got me killed and people bailed eventually, ending up with disbanded group before I could invite one of my friends to help. Sad part is I'm fairly sure they had all completed CoA before, question is who carried them? Now how about we buff that content instead so it can't be soloed anymore and make people actually learn the mechanics and their roles for those?

I'm not voting because I think they should be buffed>.<

Woeler · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

L2P.

Shadesofkin · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

The thing that bugs me is that our dear old Zos Finn says that they're still no walk in the park, but we've seen ZoS employees play on live, they're awful, these guys wiped on Blackheart Haven and use special buffs to protect themselves from being embarrassed when they stream. You can't take them as Gospel because they're out of touch with meta in the real game.

So yeah, I'm concerned that they're going to over do it on the nerf.

Dromede · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

How is VCOA challenging? It used to be before CP grind and resistance increase, but now - ??

The only challenging part of VWGT is communication on Planar stage. The rest is a breeze.

VICP takes forever just because it's a long dungeon, the rest gets easy as soon as you learn mechanics. Half the people who fail finishing the dungeon don't even know that atronachs have "enrage" mechanic - absence of knowledge is the problem, not the mechanic.

You want to make the game more easily playable for most players - direct them to walk through content, video tutorials and so on. Bring back build guides to educate casual players on how things need to get done. Feature streamers who are playing the "difficult" dungeons live with explanations and tips. Make it a fun and educational conversation, don't mindlessly nerf it!

Please don't make nice dungeons with a reasonable difficulty level (2 gold keys for a pledge are there for a reason) feel like Wayrest Sewers, PLEASE!!!

lolo_01b16_ESO · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

I completed vICP via groupfinder with 2 dds who never killed the 2nd boss before. No need to make it any easier, especially since there seems to be no new group content in the dark brotherhood dlc.

Ra'Shtar · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I completed vICP via groupfinder with 2 dds who never killed the 2nd boss before. No need to make it any easier, especially since there seems to be no new group content in the dark brotherhood dlc.

Look like people right now wants to complete things without even bothering to know how things works.

Curtdogg47 · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

I just started doing dungeons as V16. I didn't have any desire to do them early on. So despite my rank I am a total noob. I have been grouped with really good people and people who think the best way to help someone is to criticize everyone's build and scream into the headset.

Now the good people I have been grouped with, seem to know what everyone needs to do and are polite about talking to everyone and directing everyone on what do and watch out for.
Then there are the people who don't listen and don't know what they are doing. Big pain in the ass.

What I have learned is that when everyone plays together and does their job, bosses die and rather quickly. And when experienced players lead and the group listens, then you can really crush a dungeon!

These dungeon aren't meant to be a solo cake walk, they are meant to test our metal and ability to fight as one! So no they don't need to nerf anything!

Waseem · April 2016

Yes i can't complete it or takes me over 1 hour to do them.

i can complete vICP , vWGT and vCOA in 20-30 mins
yet i voted what i voted.. why? becuase i want more players to do them.
have you did vICP with people outside your guild before? probably not, well.. guess what. there are players who struggle for 2-3 hours on ICP 2nd boss. its obvious that you dont really care about them but they deserve to play and enjoy what they have/bought e.g IC DLC.
also. tbh, non of these dungeons are really challenging anymore, they are easy mode ^^ just 48 hours ago i did vICP in 20 minutes or so, you call that i had a challenge? i didnt ^^
and again, ZOS stated that they wont be a walk in the park. chill and go play them with people you never met before..

MissBizz · April 2016

Yes i can't complete it or takes me over 1 hour to do them.

Thelon wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Although when it's in a daily quest (pledge) and the game very much so supports PUG's doing said content together, I'd like to see it doable for almost all of the player base.

If the content is too difficult for PUGs, it should be nerfed?

@Thelon It is much more polite to tag someone so they know you are missing their point.

It's part of the daily pledges. If it wasn't - I would be saying it SHOULD stay difficult, even more difficult if folks think. The problem was making it part of a daily quest.

I do believe there should be difficult content and am fine if I'm not personally completing it with whoever I invite to join me in on some Friday night shenanigans. That's fine. But do not add it as party of a daily rotating quest when it is much more difficult than the "equivalent" content. (Equivalent content meaning all the other vet pledges)

If they would have been added as something separate, go hard.

Sorry I didn't clarify. The new vet trial? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's too difficult for pugs. Should it be nerfed? No. It's meant to be challenging, has accompanying leaderboard, and is not part of a daily quest.

Destyran · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

If anything they should make the drips more common on v16 like the are at lower levels that would be fine

nudel · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

BlackEar wrote: »

I would have preferred it to remain a roadblock. Roadblocks are good as they are much more fun to overcome and it was the only possible 4man out there.

THIS! I use roadblocks as ways to test my character. It's an important measuring stick to see if my build is viable and to adjust accordingly. I used to have these peppered throughout the game. Hell, Cadwell's Silver and Gold used to be one. Everytime ZOS nerfed questing and delves and Veteran leveling, people in favor told me well you have dungeons. Go do those and stop complaining.

Now, I can't even have those. . . .

Burning_Talons · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

What the hell? I never understood how people thought city of ash was challenging? I could run it in 30mins. Its not hard just annoyingly long and boring

SienneYviete · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

Please don't nerf these dungeons ZOS, we use these dungeons in our guild to introduce newer players that have facerolled their way through to vet ranks as learning tools (mechanics, communication, dps/heal checks) these dungeons have already been nerfed way more than they should have been there is no need for this nerf.

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

MissBizz wrote: »

Thelon wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Although when it's in a daily quest (pledge) and the game very much so supports PUG's doing said content together, I'd like to see it doable for almost all of the player base.

If the content is too difficult for PUGs, it should be nerfed?

@Thelon It is much more polite to tag someone so they know you are missing their point.

It's part of the daily pledges. If it wasn't - I would be saying it SHOULD stay difficult, even more difficult if folks think. The problem was making it part of a daily quest.

I do believe there should be difficult content and am fine if I'm not personally completing it with whoever I invite to join me in on some Friday night shenanigans. That's fine. But do not add it as party of a daily rotating quest when it is much more difficult than the "equivalent" content. (Equivalent content meaning all the other vet pledges)

If they would have been added as something separate, go hard.

Sorry I didn't clarify. The new vet trial? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's too difficult for pugs. Should it be nerfed? No. It's meant to be challenging, has accompanying leaderboard, and is not part of a daily quest.

This pledge is called daily veteran pledge, not "daily free keys".
Ofc, many of these dungeosn were nerfed to the ground, but it doesnt mean its a good thing.

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

And btw, this is another example how some of the casuals want to claim 100% of the game theirs. Ive never seen pvpers or hardcore raiders trying make the game 100% hardcore or consisting of trials. Its always casuals (not all of them, of course, theres many adequate people who play casually, but in this case I mean Instant Gratification Casuals).
The game has many different groups in its playerbase, and no one of them deserves to be neglected. Not everyone likes dumbed down content, so making all content super easy is stupid and unfair. Just like making all content pvp, without any pve. Or making all content group-related.

Ra'Shtar · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

And btw, this is another example how some of the casuals want to claim 100% of the game theirs. Ive never seen pvpers or hardcore raiders trying make the game 100% hardcore or consisting of trials. Its always casuals (not all of them, of course, theres many adequate people who play casually, but in this case I mean Instant Gratification Casuals).
The game has many different groups in its playerbase, and no one of them deserves to be neglected. Not everyone likes dumbed down content, so making all content super easy is stupid and unfair. Just like making all content pvp, without any pve. Or making all content group-related.

But i don't want to make any kind of effort for a reward i want everything handed to me /s

redspecter23 · April 2016

I'm happy about tuning down those 3 dungeons to be more in line with the other vet dungeons.

However, if they are to do that, I would also recommend adding a new harder difficulty on all vet dungeons. You get the best of both worlds. The daily pledge runners have a level playing field for all the available content and those looking for a challenge can take their premade guild/friend group into the new harder version for a challenge and perhaps higher drop rates on trophies/gear.

Win/Win

Also, I was unable to vote due the the bias in your poll. A simple yes/no is all that was necessary. With the bias added, any results of the poll are pretty much useless, making it a troll/rage poll instead of something that could have been taken seriously.

SanTii.92 · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

@ZOS_Finn consider this.

Nerf the instances and move the hard mode mechanic to the start of the dungeon. Activating it would increase all stats of mobs by 25% of live and It would also increase drop chances for set pieces. Everyone happy.

Or

Leave veteran mode of those dungeons as they are and give us any reason to run them in normal mode. Currently there is no reward or incentive to do them besides learning the mechanics. Icp and wgt share the same story for both modes, take advantage of that.

Zos I'm begging you, please don't nerf icp and wgt. Us, 4-man instances runners already got hit by the nothing new issue since Ic patch and we'd need to wait until for Q3 now. It's too much, don't force us to do trials t.t

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

No leave it alone #NoMoreNerf.

redspecter23 wrote: »

I'm happy about tuning down those 3 dungeons to be more in line with the other vet dungeons.

However, if they are to do that, I would also recommend adding a new harder difficulty on all vet dungeons. You get the best of both worlds. The daily pledge runners have a level playing field for all the available content and those looking for a challenge can take their premade guild/friend group into the new harder version for a challenge and perhaps higher drop rates on trophies/gear.

Win/Win

Also, I was unable to vote due the the bias in your poll. A simple yes/no is all that was necessary. With the bias added, any results of the poll are pretty much useless, making it a troll/rage poll instead of something that could have been taken seriously.

It wont be win/win.
You dont understand the mindset of instant gratification gamers.
For example, of course, Zos could nerf vet ICP and WGT and add an "elite" tier to any vet dungeon.
But you know what? Instand gratification kids will cry that they cant get achievement from the elite version and that keeps them from getting 100% achieves. Or, if drops in elite version would be even 1% better...
Theres already normal version of WGT and ICP. Sure, it drops silver keys, but at the same time they made it so silver keys also drop shoulder pieces, and quest can be finished on normal version. And even set drops are obtainable in vr15 versions - there is a difference, of course, but this difference would only be visible on optimized build. I dont believe that people who despise minmaxers would notice 2% dps difference.

Vangy · April 2016

Where are the option for I can do these dungeons ez pzy but I dont care if they nerf it?