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Do You Think "DARK BROTHERHOOD" is Last Chance of ZOS
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Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zos will find a way to mess it up. I don't have anymore trust in them.
They clearly do not have much experience yet how to run a game of that size, that can be seen. But they will learn and maybe come to the conclusion, that in order to have a stable and growing player base over a longer amount of time, they need to pay attention to bug fixing - it is tedious, I give them that, but it has to be done - CCP, who run EVE online, had to learn this as well and it took them a couple of years, so I am hopeful, that ZOS will learn this as well - and then there are good times ahead.2 -
Anzriel✭✭✭✭Zos will find a way to mess it up. I don't have anymore trust in them.
They clearly do not have much experience yet how to run a game of that size, that can be seen. But they will learn and maybe come to the conclusion, that in order to have a stable and growing player base over a longer amount of time, they need to pay attention to bug fixing - it is tedious, I give them that, but it has to be done - CCP, who run EVE online, had to learn this as well and it took them a couple of years, so I am hopeful, that ZOS will learn this as well - and then there are good times ahead.
Agreed, this is one thing that will determine how well the game does long term. Does the team as ZoS, which has no experience in MMO games, learn and adjust to running the game or do they keep making the same mistakes over and over again. I don't think there is any short-medium term worry for ESO however. We'll see how things go moving forward.1 -
sadownik✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zos will find a way to mess it up. I don't have anymore trust in them.
They clearly do not have much experience yet how to run a game of that size, that can be seen. But they will learn and maybe come to the conclusion, that in order to have a stable and growing player base over a longer amount of time, they need to pay attention to bug fixing - it is tedious, I give them that, but it has to be done - CCP, who run EVE online, had to learn this as well and it took them a couple of years, so I am hopeful, that ZOS will learn this as well - and then there are good times ahead.
Agreed, this is one thing that will determine how well the game does long term. Does the team as ZoS, which has no experience in MMO games, learn and adjust to running the game or do they keep making the same mistakes over and over again. I don't think there is any short-medium term worry for ESO however. We'll see how things go moving forward.
Im sorry, but what? Didnt they hired people with years of MMO developement experience?1 -
Morridune✭✭I very much doubt the future of the game hangs on 1 DLC. ESO while not without faults is still a fun game to play with one of the best communities going in mmo's yeh ppl whine on forums but it tends to be same ppl each time most just get on with playing the game and as the base game it's self offer so much b4 addin in dlc's its pretty safe0 -
TheHsN✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zos will find a way to mess it up. I don't have anymore trust in them.
They clearly do not have much experience yet how to run a game of that size, that can be seen. But they will learn and maybe come to the conclusion, that in order to have a stable and growing player base over a longer amount of time, they need to pay attention to bug fixing - it is tedious, I give them that, but it has to be done - CCP, who run EVE online, had to learn this as well and it took them a couple of years, so I am hopeful, that ZOS will learn this as well - and then there are good times ahead.
Agreed, this is one thing that will determine how well the game does long term. Does the team as ZoS, which has no experience in MMO games, learn and adjust to running the game or do they keep making the same mistakes over and over again. I don't think there is any short-medium term worry for ESO however. We'll see how things go moving forward.
Im sorry, but what? Didnt they hired people with years of MMO developement experience?
years of experience of MMO...They all team not older then 35 i guess:D....i dont thing years and years:D...Plays:
Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
Magicka Templar - PvE
Stamina Templar - PvP
Magicka DK - PvE
Stamina DK - PvE0 -
Miwerton✭✭✭Zos will find a way to mess it up. I don't have anymore trust in them.
They clearly do not have much experience yet how to run a game of that size, that can be seen. But they will learn and maybe come to the conclusion, that in order to have a stable and growing player base over a longer amount of time, they need to pay attention to bug fixing - it is tedious, I give them that, but it has to be done - CCP, who run EVE online, had to learn this as well and it took them a couple of years, so I am hopeful, that ZOS will learn this as well - and then there are good times ahead.
Agreed, this is one thing that will determine how well the game does long term. Does the team as ZoS, which has no experience in MMO games, learn and adjust to running the game or do they keep making the same mistakes over and over again. I don't think there is any short-medium term worry for ESO however. We'll see how things go moving forward.
Im sorry, but what? Didnt they hired people with years of MMO developement experience?
years of experience of MMO...They all team not older then 35 i guess:D....i dont thing years and years:D...
And wasnt wrobel fired or had a long list of negatives feedback from working with Blizzard.0 -
Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭
Last chance? Nowadays, everything seems to be ZOS's "last chance". I honestly can't bother to keep up anymore. Claims of ZOS's "last chance" come up just about every other month, and are no better than "X game will KILL ESO" threads.i think if dark brother is unsuccessful like last DLC Thievs G. they will lose many players...AND i see this DLC will make sure the Future of ZOS ...
Thank you.
Wildstar is coming, this is ZOS's last chance!
Black Desert Online is coming, this is ZOS's last chance!
Soft caps were removed, this is your last chance ZOS!
PvP sucks ZOS! Imperial City is your last chance!
PvP portion of the Justice System was scrapped! This your last chance ZOS!
CPs are unbalanced! This is your last chance, ZOS!
Blah, blah, blah. If you really want me to take any "last chance" theories seriously, then you have to come up with really really good evidence as to why. All of the prior examples have had "evidence" too, and well....there is a reason ESO is still here and kicking.
Like, I'll agree that maybe DB will be lackluster. Or maybe it'll be shown that it wasn't as ideal as we thought it would be. But it being ZOS's "last chance"? I can't help but scoff at that notion. I don't see why DB will any different than other 'last chance' claims. As with others, the DB DLC will not be the end-all-be-all of ESO, nor should it be. It will simply fail or succeed on its own merits, and as it had done with others, ESO will simply keep on going as they go onto the next DLC.
4 -
RebornV3x✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭At this point I'm just about done with this game. I can say I'm completely done with the PvP in this game after some strange things recently and all the casual pandering ZOS does pvp is horrible and sadly I spent so much time and gold getting my character specd for PVP I wonder If it's even worth making a PVE character I only log in every 3 days or so to spend my elightenment cause I'm so close to 500 CPEdited by RebornV3x on April 18, 2016 6:16PMXbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Like thief guild the dark brotherhood (and the Morag Tong in Morrowind) had their fans in former games. And for those any TES game is incomplete without those guilds and they enjoy being a member of those guilds. It is not for everyone though, that is why it is in a DLC, I guess, that those, who are not interested into this kind of game play can just let it go and don't buy the DLC. ESO+ members have access anyway, and for some it might be enough to just go for the thief troves without to ever join the guild. But they will still enjoy the scenery of Hew's Bane and Abah's landing without to be a guild member.
I actually doubt that TG DLC was not a success, I think a lot enjoy it and will enjoy the game play delivered with it. Not everyone needs huge rewards to enjoy some game play, some do it as kind of a hobby and if there are some nice pieces to gain now and then (and there are for thiefs), then this is fine and they enjoy doing that. And for someone like me, who is just a low level still, this is game play which I have to repeat and like to repeat in order to upgrade my nightmother and darkstride sets according to my level. In thief troves those are scaled down to level and I have to upgrade these sets now and then and so these thief troves will keep me busy for a while. And I really enjoy the 2m detection range reduction of the NM set.
IMO these thief troves have something nice in stock for thievery especially on lower levels. I doubt that it is not successful.0 -
Acharnor✭✭✭✭Last chance - why would this be so? Sure Thieves Guild has had some issues but I have been able to play it and enjoy it. This game gets better with time not worse. Too many Negative Nellies on this forum looking up, certain that the sky is falling. You really do not have to like the game - its ok! There are others! Me, I will continue to explore here.Celebrate for life is short but sweet for certain.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭At this point I'm just about done with this game. I can say I'm completely done with the PvP in this game after some strange things recently and all the casual pandering ZOS does pvp is horrible and sadly I spent so much time and gold getting my character specd for PVP I wonder If it's even worth making a PVE character I only log in every 3 days or so to spend my elightenment cause I'm so close to 500 CP
If you don't enjoy it, why does it matter that you reach 500 CP?- that does not make sense, either you don't enjoy it, then it is irrelevant how many CP you will have, because it will not make the game any better for you. Or you enjoy it, then you will go for the 500 CP and stay in the game. To go for 500 CP just to afterwards leave the game would be ... <well you know>
Edit: on a constructive side note - maybe try to play the game in a different way with a new character. Do not rush through it, just take your time and enjoy it, there is no end game for you then, so there is no need to level fast. Twice a week is perfect for this kind of gameplay - you just play without to stress yourself into it and do not grind - that is what makes the game boring as hell - mindless grind - don't do that, do what is fun.
You got to know already that the goal is not enjoyable - so do not try to reach it early on, just enjoy the journey towards it, without to ever reach it. Forget about end game, because that is what it is if you reach it - end of game and end of fun. You are just experiencing it ... just play in a different way next time.Edited by Lysette on April 18, 2016 6:39PM0 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i give a last chance to zenimax , for do a big and good DLC ( plzzzzzzzzz d'ont do again stupid repeatable question with stupid reward ... ) and if the next DLC is same than thieves guild , i back , when i connect my main character to the game , i d'ont want do 45963 repeatable question with stupid reward , and i d'ont want farm ressources , and i d'ont want farm boss for motifs0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭i give a last chance to zenimax , for do a big and good DLC ( plzzzzzzzzz d'ont do again stupid repeatable question with stupid reward ... ) and if the next DLC is same than thieves guild , i back , when i connect my main character to the game , i d'ont want do 45963 repeatable question with stupid reward , and i d'ont want farm ressources , and i d'ont want farm boss for motifs
Then ... just don't do it - no one is forcing you to do it.1 -
Svalinn✭✭✭I really don't see where ESO is failing.. of course it is not a perfect game but... it still does almost everything much more better than the majority (just so i don't say "all" since people would just attack the word) of the mmo on the market.
As far as bug goes.. i really didn't experience any major bug until now and i'm always quite surprised when i read people complaining about hundreds of bugs because well.. i just never saw them.
The only "flaws" i've found until now is about the class system, the fact that magic schools doesn't exist and the lack of a 1vs1 / team PvP Arena like the one in ES Oblibion (but i keep my hopes up for the future at least on the arena) and that's it... but i still enjoy the game and even if i take breaks ESO is actually the only mmo i feel like i want to come back to every single time no matter what other mmo i try.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I really don't see where ESO is failing.. of course it is not a perfect game but... it still does almost everything much more better than the majority (just so i don't say "all" since people would just attack the word) of the mmo on the market.
As far as bug goes.. i really didn't experience any major bug until now and i'm always quite surprised when i read people complaining about hundreds of bugs because well.. i just never saw them.
The only "flaws" i've found until now is about the class system, the fact that magic schools doesn't exist and the lack of a 1vs1 / team PvP Arena like the one in ES Oblibion (but i keep my hopes up for the future at least on the arena) and that's it... but i still enjoy the game and even if i take breaks ESO is actually the only mmo i feel like i want to come back to every single time no matter what other mmo i try.
I can feel your pain when it comes to the mage guild - when the guy in the mage guild explained to me, that they are "kind of book hunters" I thought "WTF, this is ridiculous, where are the spells to learn and craft" - but well, that is a design decision, which I find quite lazy tbh, book hunters, really?0 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭If every pvp player quit the game they would lose about 10 percent of the population base. Otherwise if we were cash cows they would have leveraged that and developed new stuff for us already. Don't fool yourselves. Play the game or don't... But don't think you can give them the .... Or else scenario. I still have my one gold imperial horse and won't be riding a bear or camel or guar.... The day those came out cyrodil was full of them. You aleardy got your new content and paid for it too. It's a great game just play it... Or don't. Your choice. There is always angry birds.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.0 -
Svalinn✭✭✭I can feel your pain when it comes to the mage guild - when the guy in the mage guild explained to me, that they are "kind of book hunters" I thought "WTF, this is ridiculous, where are the spells to learn and craft" - but well, that is a design decision, which I find quite lazy tbh, book hunters, really?
Well my actual pain was stimulated in a quest (don't remember which one) were the NPC actually started talking to me about "illusion magic"... when i read those words... "Illusion magic"... made me remember all the different scoools.. illusion.. destruction... etc etc... and i got to admit i felt a little rage against the current class system xD0 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
What leads you to believe that the Thieves Guild was unsuccessful?i think if dark brother is unsuccessful like last DLC Thievs G. they will lose many players...AND i see this DLC will make sure the Future of ZOS ...
Thank you.
I'm having a blast with ESO and all of its DLC. Am I saying they don't have issues? No, not at all. But I think anyone would be hard pressed to find an MMO (any MMO) that doesn't have their own fair share of issues.
I'll buy the Dark Brotherhood on the day it launches, and I'm sure I'll love that DLC as well (DB is my favorite faction in the Elder Scrolls series). But by no means do I think that ESO is any kind of predicament where any DLC is this games "last chance".
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!1 -
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I love the new TG DLC!!! I believe that DB is going to be at least as good as TG, or Orsinium!!!!
1 -
Svalinn✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »I'll buy the Dark Brotherhood on the day it launches, and I'm sure I'll love that DLC as well (DB is my favorite faction in the Elder Scrolls series). But by no means do I think that ESO is any kind of predicament where any DLC is this games "last chance".
Same here...it would be absolutly hilarious if we could have a syustem were the game automatically finds the accounts of people "S***talking" ESO on the forums and automatically give us killing contracts to kill the relative players in game xD
oh well i'm joking of course.. don't wanna get killed by noone.. so let me repeat: "IT. IS. A. JOKE"
^^2 -
mrkurokishi✭✭✭I have no plans on going anywhere because I tend to shift from PVP to PVE and vice-verse often, but I feel that ZOS needs to work on fixing a lot of the core issues that plague this game. I should not load into a dungeon or walk around town and have my game freeze every hour or two, nor should I be in the middle of PVP and get hit with random load screens every time someone shoots a stone trebuchet at a wall.
I am also looking forward to the changes to class balance. Im hoping for decent changes to stam and heavy armor, but Im a little confused on what might happen to Reverse Slice after what was mentioned in one of the past ESO Live.
With ZOS implementing crafting bags will be in the game that will be a nice bonus since I tend to craft gear for a lot of people.
Overall I think a lot of people will still be around even if DB is similar to TG, but for those that strictly play PVP and nothing else, if the class balancing is not great or substantial there may be quite a few really good players leavingPS4 : mrkurokishiBancha: AD Khajiit magCro (main)
Koicha: AD Khajiit stamPlar
Usucha: AD Khajiit stamDen
Teishu: DC Khajiit magDK
Shincha: AD Khajiit madSorcPC : mrkurokishiMalacath's Side Piece: DC Orc stamPlar0 -
vyrusb23✭✭✭✭✭
Last chance? Nowadays, everything seems to be ZOS's "last chance". I honestly can't bother to keep up anymore. Claims of ZOS's "last chance" come up just about every other month, and are no better than "X game will KILL ESO" threads.i think if dark brother is unsuccessful like last DLC Thievs G. they will lose many players...AND i see this DLC will make sure the Future of ZOS ...
Thank you.
Yep. ESO: happily "dieing" for the past 2 years.
0 -
Svalinn✭✭✭Last chance? Nowadays, everything seems to be ZOS's "last chance". I honestly can't bother to keep up anymore. Claims of ZOS's "last chance" come up just about every other month, and are no better than "X game will KILL ESO" threads.
Wildstar is coming, this is ZOS's last chance!
Black Desert Online is coming, this is ZOS's last chance!
Soft caps were removed, this is your last chance ZOS!
PvP sucks ZOS! Imperial City is your last chance!
PvP portion of the Justice System was scrapped! This your last chance ZOS!
CPs are unbalanced! This is your last chance, ZOS!
Seems to me like everything is ESO last chance the same way every new mmo is a WOW killer.1 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭NinjaApacHe wrote: »Forum people are the vocal minority that most of times ruin the games. ESO si doing fine and it's healthy. So you are just trying to pull people to your side. Bad side I must say.
Yeah PvP is so healthy. The sheer complacency. You say forum people hurt the game but people such as yourself who do not recognize the issues and give pressure to get them fix are the ones who truly hurt the game.
See it from this side - people who pvp, have done most of the stuff in the game already. They have bought pretty much all what they will buy already - ZOS made their money with them already and there is not much to gain from this group, because like we see on this forum, they burn through new content in a rush and then they complain again. They might not even buy the content but just sub for a month - so what is to be gained from them - 4 times 15$ per year. Whereas a casual gamer has most likely not bought all yet, but will over time and he will stay subscribed, while not being a drain on the servers and he will most likely not complain, because he will never discover that there are problems, because he is playing so slowly. This is the group from which they gain money in the future and that is why they cater the game for them. It is just like in real life business as well, where the target group are young and new people, who have nothing and need all - old people, who have all already, are not a target group anymore - and that is equivalent to pvp gamers - the money is made with them, not much to gain from them.
You know... The more and more I read from your posts, the more and more things slowly start to "click". Things that I have wondered begin to fall in place. @Fengrush has had a similar effect on me, and has caused me to truly pause for a moment and think about what is going on with ZO$. You know? He encourages deep thought, and gives it how it is. And now you. You appear to have the same effect. A person of logic and thought...
It's funny how the more I immerse myself in the forums, and community overall — the more I tend to slowly grasp the "big picture" being painted before my eyes...
It is just the reality of a business, and ZOS is a business. You can enjoy the game nevertheless, I just write that to show, that some expectations are not realistic - ZOS will never cater mostly to pvp or make this a main point of the game again. They might have done this at start, to attract people and they might have thought, well, we can make a lot of money with those, who do not know TES games yet. And this goal is achieved, not much to gain in this segment anymore. And now they can do, what the game should have been in the first place - an ever expanding oasis for TES fans - and for them the game has to feel like a single player game, where they can do nearly all alone. They can group up, but most will not do it, because they come from single player games and are used to play solo. They might group for a little while, but return to their old ways of gaming.
You make too much sense and understand things too clearly to be posting on these forums.
It's nice to see someone who "gets it." Most don't.
So lets take this to its most ruthles business conclusion:
1. Minimum wage costs - skeleton crew who cant accomplish anything of substance.
2. Minimum hardware maintenance and assets - strip hardware to the core and just let it barely crawl along to say it still works..sometimes. Then cover legal avenues to say the service is best effort and not guaranteed.
3. Maximum income - use marketing and sales tactics to keep the players paying as much as possible for as long as possible to go with the minimum outlay. Only say the minimum necessary and only when necessary.
ie. Maximise income minimise outlay. Whether the customer enjoys it or not is neither here nor there....as long as they keep paying or new people arrive.
Thats the bottom line from a cold ruthless business standpoint.
I do want to hope that this is not the reality at ZOS central.
I would like to think they are building a long term partnership with their playerbase base to ensure mutual long term happiness.
But that what the marketing dept are employed to make you believe, regardless of whether its actually true or not.
/shrugs. We'll see with DB.Anything that can be exploited will be exploited2 -
vyrusb23✭✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »NinjaApacHe wrote: »Forum people are the vocal minority that most of times ruin the games. ESO si doing fine and it's healthy. So you are just trying to pull people to your side. Bad side I must say.
Yeah PvP is so healthy. The sheer complacency. You say forum people hurt the game but people such as yourself who do not recognize the issues and give pressure to get them fix are the ones who truly hurt the game.
See it from this side - people who pvp, have done most of the stuff in the game already. They have bought pretty much all what they will buy already - ZOS made their money with them already and there is not much to gain from this group, because like we see on this forum, they burn through new content in a rush and then they complain again. They might not even buy the content but just sub for a month - so what is to be gained from them - 4 times 15$ per year. Whereas a casual gamer has most likely not bought all yet, but will over time and he will stay subscribed, while not being a drain on the servers and he will most likely not complain, because he will never discover that there are problems, because he is playing so slowly. This is the group from which they gain money in the future and that is why they cater the game for them. It is just like in real life business as well, where the target group are young and new people, who have nothing and need all - old people, who have all already, are not a target group anymore - and that is equivalent to pvp gamers - the money is made with them, not much to gain from them.
You know... The more and more I read from your posts, the more and more things slowly start to "click". Things that I have wondered begin to fall in place. @Fengrush has had a similar effect on me, and has caused me to truly pause for a moment and think about what is going on with ZO$. You know? He encourages deep thought, and gives it how it is. And now you. You appear to have the same effect. A person of logic and thought...
It's funny how the more I immerse myself in the forums, and community overall — the more I tend to slowly grasp the "big picture" being painted before my eyes...
It is just the reality of a business, and ZOS is a business. You can enjoy the game nevertheless, I just write that to show, that some expectations are not realistic - ZOS will never cater mostly to pvp or make this a main point of the game again. They might have done this at start, to attract people and they might have thought, well, we can make a lot of money with those, who do not know TES games yet. And this goal is achieved, not much to gain in this segment anymore. And now they can do, what the game should have been in the first place - an ever expanding oasis for TES fans - and for them the game has to feel like a single player game, where they can do nearly all alone. They can group up, but most will not do it, because they come from single player games and are used to play solo. They might group for a little while, but return to their old ways of gaming.
You make too much sense and understand things too clearly to be posting on these forums.
It's nice to see someone who "gets it." Most don't.
So lets take this to its most ruthles business conclusion:
1. Minimum wage costs - skeleton crew who cant accomplish anything of substance.
2. Minimum hardware maintenance and assets - strip hardware to the core and just let it barely crawl along to say it still works..sometimes. Then cover legal avenues to say the service is best effort and not guaranteed.
3. Maximum income - use marketing and sales tactics to keep the players paying as much as possible for as long as possible to go with the minimum outlay. Only say the minimum necessary and only when necessary.
ie. Maximise income minimise outlay. Whether the customer enjoys it or not is neither here nor there....as long as they keep paying or new people arrive.
Thats the bottom line from a cold ruthless business standpoint.
I do want to hope that this is not the reality at ZOS central.
I would like to think they are building a long term partnership with their playerbase base to ensure mutual long term happiness.
But that what the marketing dept are employed to make you believe, regardless of whether its actually true or not.
/shrugs. We'll see with DB.
You're assuming that they are operating at the apex of ruthlessness. A wrong bad assumption in my opinion. I believe that they genuinely want their players to have a good time playing their game, but they have to balance that with being a business and making money.
/shrugEdited by vyrusb23 on April 18, 2016 8:21PM1 -
Anzriel✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
What leads you to believe that the Thieves Guild was unsuccessful?i think if dark brother is unsuccessful like last DLC Thievs G. they will lose many players...AND i see this DLC will make sure the Future of ZOS ...
Thank you.
I'm having a blast with ESO and all of its DLC. Am I saying they don't have issues? No, not at all. But I think anyone would be hard pressed to find an MMO (any MMO) that doesn't have their own fair share of issues.
I'll buy the Dark Brotherhood on the day it launches, and I'm sure I'll love that DLC as well (DB is my favorite faction in the Elder Scrolls series). But by no means do I think that ESO is any kind of predicament where any DLC is this games "last chance".
I don't have numbers, so this is purely subjective and very possibly incorrect, however based on what I've heard TG seems to be mostly getting "mixed" reviews from players. At this point we won't really know for certain if all of these DLCs are truly a success or failure. Games don't die or anything over night. Seems to have a reasonable population for now though, so I agree the game isn't "in trouble". I do wonder long-term how things will work out though.If every pvp player quit the game they would lose about 10 percent of the population base. Otherwise if we were cash cows they would have leveraged that and developed new stuff for us already. Don't fool yourselves. Play the game or don't... But don't think you can give them the .... Or else scenario. I still have my one gold imperial horse and won't be riding a bear or camel or guar.... The day those came out cyrodil was full of them. You aleardy got your new content and paid for it too. It's a great game just play it... Or don't. Your choice. There is always angry birds.
While I agree the "Do this thing I want or I quit" nonsense is stupid, I don't agree that simply walking away is always the best answer. For pvp players here I can understand the thought process, it's been over a year, but sometimes player feedback is actually beneficial for a game and it's growth. Assuming the developers can sort through the nonsense for good ideas of course.Zos will find a way to mess it up. I don't have anymore trust in them.
They clearly do not have much experience yet how to run a game of that size, that can be seen. But they will learn and maybe come to the conclusion, that in order to have a stable and growing player base over a longer amount of time, they need to pay attention to bug fixing - it is tedious, I give them that, but it has to be done - CCP, who run EVE online, had to learn this as well and it took them a couple of years, so I am hopeful, that ZOS will learn this as well - and then there are good times ahead.
Agreed, this is one thing that will determine how well the game does long term. Does the team as ZoS, which has no experience in MMO games, learn and adjust to running the game or do they keep making the same mistakes over and over again. I don't think there is any short-medium term worry for ESO however. We'll see how things go moving forward.
Im sorry, but what? Didnt they hired people with years of MMO developement experience?
I could of course be wrong, but I was under the impression that a sizable chunk of the ZoS team was actually pretty inexperienced when it came to MMOs. Honestly if I'm wrong though that actually hurts my image of them, since I was taking into account the fact that they were still growing and learning in my assessment of ZoS.
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Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »NinjaApacHe wrote: »Forum people are the vocal minority that most of times ruin the games. ESO si doing fine and it's healthy. So you are just trying to pull people to your side. Bad side I must say.
Yeah PvP is so healthy. The sheer complacency. You say forum people hurt the game but people such as yourself who do not recognize the issues and give pressure to get them fix are the ones who truly hurt the game.
See it from this side - people who pvp, have done most of the stuff in the game already. They have bought pretty much all what they will buy already - ZOS made their money with them already and there is not much to gain from this group, because like we see on this forum, they burn through new content in a rush and then they complain again. They might not even buy the content but just sub for a month - so what is to be gained from them - 4 times 15$ per year. Whereas a casual gamer has most likely not bought all yet, but will over time and he will stay subscribed, while not being a drain on the servers and he will most likely not complain, because he will never discover that there are problems, because he is playing so slowly. This is the group from which they gain money in the future and that is why they cater the game for them. It is just like in real life business as well, where the target group are young and new people, who have nothing and need all - old people, who have all already, are not a target group anymore - and that is equivalent to pvp gamers - the money is made with them, not much to gain from them.
You know... The more and more I read from your posts, the more and more things slowly start to "click". Things that I have wondered begin to fall in place. @Fengrush has had a similar effect on me, and has caused me to truly pause for a moment and think about what is going on with ZO$. You know? He encourages deep thought, and gives it how it is. And now you. You appear to have the same effect. A person of logic and thought...
It's funny how the more I immerse myself in the forums, and community overall — the more I tend to slowly grasp the "big picture" being painted before my eyes...
It is just the reality of a business, and ZOS is a business. You can enjoy the game nevertheless, I just write that to show, that some expectations are not realistic - ZOS will never cater mostly to pvp or make this a main point of the game again. They might have done this at start, to attract people and they might have thought, well, we can make a lot of money with those, who do not know TES games yet. And this goal is achieved, not much to gain in this segment anymore. And now they can do, what the game should have been in the first place - an ever expanding oasis for TES fans - and for them the game has to feel like a single player game, where they can do nearly all alone. They can group up, but most will not do it, because they come from single player games and are used to play solo. They might group for a little while, but return to their old ways of gaming.
You make too much sense and understand things too clearly to be posting on these forums.
It's nice to see someone who "gets it." Most don't.
So lets take this to its most ruthles business conclusion:
1. Minimum wage costs - skeleton crew who cant accomplish anything of substance.
2. Minimum hardware maintenance and assets - strip hardware to the core and just let it barely crawl along to say it still works..sometimes. Then cover legal avenues to say the service is best effort and not guaranteed.
3. Maximum income - use marketing and sales tactics to keep the players paying as much as possible for as long as possible to go with the minimum outlay. Only say the minimum necessary and only when necessary.
ie. Maximise income minimise outlay. Whether the customer enjoys it or not is neither here nor there....as long as they keep paying or new people arrive.
Thats the bottom line from a cold ruthless business standpoint.
I do want to hope that this is not the reality at ZOS central.
I would like to think they are building a long term partnership with their playerbase base to ensure mutual long term happiness.
But that what the marketing dept are employed to make you believe, regardless of whether its actually true or not.
/shrugs. We'll see with DB.
You're assuming that they are operating at the apex of ruthlessness. A wrong bad assumption in my opinion. I believe that they genuinely want their players to have a good time playing their game, but they have to balance that with being a business and making money.
/shrug
Bad assumption ? Maybe. Lets look at the facts:
Hows those 12+ month old bug fixes coming along ?
Hows that server performance doing ?
How often do they mix with the customers in a meaningful way ?
What content are they releasing that wasnt built months ago (as televised in game conferences) ?
That historical reality is pretty grim reading and doesnt fill me with confidence.
If DB turns out to be a major turn around. Then awesome.
I genuinely sit here with anticipation.
But not with rose coloured glasses. Not any more.Edited by Rune_Relic on April 18, 2016 8:38PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited3 -
vyrusb23✭✭✭✭✭
Probably.Rune_Relic wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »NinjaApacHe wrote: »Forum people are the vocal minority that most of times ruin the games. ESO si doing fine and it's healthy. So you are just trying to pull people to your side. Bad side I must say.
Yeah PvP is so healthy. The sheer complacency. You say forum people hurt the game but people such as yourself who do not recognize the issues and give pressure to get them fix are the ones who truly hurt the game.
See it from this side - people who pvp, have done most of the stuff in the game already. They have bought pretty much all what they will buy already - ZOS made their money with them already and there is not much to gain from this group, because like we see on this forum, they burn through new content in a rush and then they complain again. They might not even buy the content but just sub for a month - so what is to be gained from them - 4 times 15$ per year. Whereas a casual gamer has most likely not bought all yet, but will over time and he will stay subscribed, while not being a drain on the servers and he will most likely not complain, because he will never discover that there are problems, because he is playing so slowly. This is the group from which they gain money in the future and that is why they cater the game for them. It is just like in real life business as well, where the target group are young and new people, who have nothing and need all - old people, who have all already, are not a target group anymore - and that is equivalent to pvp gamers - the money is made with them, not much to gain from them.
You know... The more and more I read from your posts, the more and more things slowly start to "click". Things that I have wondered begin to fall in place. @Fengrush has had a similar effect on me, and has caused me to truly pause for a moment and think about what is going on with ZO$. You know? He encourages deep thought, and gives it how it is. And now you. You appear to have the same effect. A person of logic and thought...
It's funny how the more I immerse myself in the forums, and community overall — the more I tend to slowly grasp the "big picture" being painted before my eyes...
It is just the reality of a business, and ZOS is a business. You can enjoy the game nevertheless, I just write that to show, that some expectations are not realistic - ZOS will never cater mostly to pvp or make this a main point of the game again. They might have done this at start, to attract people and they might have thought, well, we can make a lot of money with those, who do not know TES games yet. And this goal is achieved, not much to gain in this segment anymore. And now they can do, what the game should have been in the first place - an ever expanding oasis for TES fans - and for them the game has to feel like a single player game, where they can do nearly all alone. They can group up, but most will not do it, because they come from single player games and are used to play solo. They might group for a little while, but return to their old ways of gaming.
You make too much sense and understand things too clearly to be posting on these forums.
It's nice to see someone who "gets it." Most don't.
So lets take this to its most ruthles business conclusion:
1. Minimum wage costs - skeleton crew who cant accomplish anything of substance.
2. Minimum hardware maintenance and assets - strip hardware to the core and just let it barely crawl along to say it still works..sometimes. Then cover legal avenues to say the service is best effort and not guaranteed.
3. Maximum income - use marketing and sales tactics to keep the players paying as much as possible for as long as possible to go with the minimum outlay. Only say the minimum necessary and only when necessary.
ie. Maximise income minimise outlay. Whether the customer enjoys it or not is neither here nor there....as long as they keep paying or new people arrive.
Thats the bottom line from a cold ruthless business standpoint.
I do want to hope that this is not the reality at ZOS central.
I would like to think they are building a long term partnership with their playerbase base to ensure mutual long term happiness.
But that what the marketing dept are employed to make you believe, regardless of whether its actually true or not.
/shrugs. We'll see with DB.
You're assuming that they are operating at the apex of ruthlessness. A wrong bad assumption in my opinion. I believe that they genuinely want their players to have a good time playing their game, but they have to balance that with being a business and making money.
/shrug
Bad assumption ? Maybe.0
