Am I the only person who LIKES Vicious Death?

Thelrox · April 2016

I have too much self-respect to use this ez-mode crap.

Buffler · April 2016

The fact it procs off an engine guardian is pathetic.

Vaoh · April 2016

Viscious Death is the pinnacle of ESO imbalance. It is exactly the sign you need to recognize when understanding why PvP will never realize its full potential. It was close at launch, but is miles away now.

Interview with The Guardian.... is this even the same game? I feel lied to if it is. (Link below to whole article. Warning: It will make you feel kinda depressed.)

"PvP takes place in the huge central zone of Cyrodil, and the obvious question is how many players can get involved. "We're planning on having 2,000 people at once in Cyrodil," says Firor.

"In a particular fight, our client is optimised to have 200 players on-screen at one time, which means you'll have very large battles within an even larger battlefield."

Such numbers means plenty of different player levels participating, an issue TESO solves by automatically increasing everyone's stats.

"Everyone gets boosted up to the max level," explains Firor. "But you don't get abilities you haven't earned yet – just the hit points and stuff." A typical PvP battle might be a large-scale city assault, with one team defending, while the other is battering gates, firing trebuchets, and trying to sneak in through poorly-defended side-routes...."

There was never any city defending, 2,000 player population, nothing....

Most campaigns don't have more than 200 players on the server except during prime time. In fact, there is probably (on average) less than 2,000 players at a time PLAYING PVP in all of the campaigns combined! (PS4 NA)
What is it with this false advertising?

Link:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/feb/01/elder-scrolls-online-interview-part-2

iTzStevey · April 2016

It should only proc when there are a certain number of friendlies within a meter range from you and the damage schould scale like proxy det. Infact,both should be near useless to single target.

iTzStevey · April 2016

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

magictucktuck wrote: »

If no one liked it people would not be whining on the forums cuz no one would be using it.

People use it cause it can be OP especially around not so good players. People whined about the Bat Swarm spam back in the day too and people used it but that doesnt mean its healthy for the game. VD and giving everybody proxy so easy is a bandaid fix to stop zerging to help out with lag. Again its nothing more than a bandaid fix trying to change how people play the game and not addressing the core issue.

I agree, funny thing is performance has got a lot worse than in 2.2.

darkstar2084 · April 2016

I'm not sure how anyone can like Viscous proxy death mag NB in IC. kek can aggro banners and then disappear, get past every enemy and simply destroy small groups clustered together in the sewers, with no room to spread out. I think the set is cool for cyro and needed but in the IC gives NB an already unfair advantage

binho · April 2016

I only play magicka characters but I must say I honestly dislike vicious death. People get killed because of armour and not player skill... In all fairness, you don't need any skill at all. It seems to me the only reason why VD was released is to give bad players the perception that they are actually good.
Just my opinion

joker0137 · April 2016

They cost so much from guild traders that I'll probably not get to try them out, unless I'm lucky enough to find them.

GreenSoup2HoT · April 2016

With forwards camp's the way they are now, this stops nothing. So vicious death has just become cheese to kill a bunch of people close together. It could be 5 people minding their own business.

This set is fine. Magicka Detonation is not. You should be jumping into ball groups who are stacked to the nines to get this set to work. Magicka Detonation is scaling too easily off to little players and has become complete cheese.

Who though it was a good idea to buff magicka detonation to the point where its good in every single engagement?

Magicka Detonation should not even go off if only 5 people are in the damn radius. It's become a crutch for pvp and i loose respect from good players i see using it in small scale. Sorry folks. It's ruining the stamina vs magicka dynamic and small scale pvp all together while not even attempting to fix the zerg issue because we now got forward camps.

threefarms · April 2016

VD is a waste for PvE

MacCait · April 2016

I've found this a very interesting post and discussion.

I think the idea and original intention behind this set is a good one... however I think its caused some issues that perhaps where not expected or thought about at the time of its creation.

I hope that ZOS reads these discussions, because it seems to me that several people have come up with a possible balance solution for this set, so that it can remain, but in a more balanced and effective way as a zerg buster.

As people have mentioned here, it seems the solution would be to change how the set works. So that it does not really affect an individual or even a small group, but gains power with more people. ie, the more people the stronger it is!

I like the idea behind the set and its certainly amusing to watch it in action, but I agree for now it is unbalanced. It would be great to see ZOS take on board this discussion and implement the suggested balance.

Sotha_Sil · April 2016

I don't mind spreading but when all my healing/supporting skills as a templar are based on people grouping I just want to say that being a support role is dead in Cyrodiil now. Have fun with your 1vX builds but that is not how I wanted to play the game and VD completely killed it.

FortheloveofKrist · April 2016

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

I don't mind spreading but when all my healing/supporting skills as a templar are based on people grouping I just want to say that being a support role is dead in Cyrodiil now. Have fun with your 1vX builds but that is not how I wanted to play the game.

Hmm. That's a good point. I didn't think about the grouping needed for support roles.

Sotha_Sil · April 2016

ZOS should have thought about altering some skills in order to make them useful in a situation where you have to spread... And that is not the case for the restoring light abilities at the moment nor for the alliance support abilities.

For example : healing ritual has a reduced cast time and can be effective in a group now but what is the point if people have to spread because of VD ? It's nonsensical. And no one is using it in PVE raids anyway. So that skill is still not effective.

The way abilities work in the game make them useful only if people are stacking and a single set (VD) made it completely useless. Many support skills must be reworked with that in mind. You can't expect people to change their gameplay if these skills are based on grouping... @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Aspi90 · April 2016

I have VD on my NB,I made a ton of AP and I had fun, but I *** hate this Set.
The last time I was playing ESO, 2 weeks ago, I killed 8 guys under a ram and was like wtf, this cannot be thing. I never logged back on again.
Without proxy Det I would say it would be okay, but at the moment it´s just stupid.

And at some point you have to ask yourself, ZOS, why is everyone running with either proxy Det or caltrops (or both...).
Just remove those two abilities or at least weaken them. I really want scratch my eyes out when I see that nearly everyone is spamming those skills, and rapid regen, don´t forget rapid regen....

ArcanusMagus · April 2016

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

ZOS should have thought about altering some skills in order to make them useful in a situation where you have to spread... And that is not the case for the restoring light abilities at the moment nor for the alliance support abilities.

For example : healing ritual has a reduced cast time and can be effective in a group now but what is the point if people have to spread because of VD ? It's nonsensical. And no one is using it in PVE raids anyway. So that skill is still not effective.

The way abilities work in the game make them useful only if people are stacking and a single set (VD) made it completely useless. Many support skills must be reworked with that in mind. You can't expect people to change their gameplay if these skills are based on grouping... @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

That's a really good point. Some of those templar abilites would put people within VD range. I like the range on VD (small), but it does hit those templar support builds that are really unsung heroes in my opinion.

Xsorus · April 2016

Zheg wrote: »

To all of the people who keep saying "I don't have it yet, but I love it!", pretty much every regular pvper that wants to run this set has acquired it by now, so all I can do is assume that you don't play in pvp very often. It has not forced people to spread out, stop spreading that garbage talking point. In the TG patch people are stacking up even more and bringing double or triple the numbers you'd commonly see on the last patch.

In fact, typically I see VD being used against the smaller forces after they're already engaged with larger forces. Or, you get videos showing people like sypher using it to skillfully obliterate people repairing a wall. If you actually think that VD does anything to stop or even remotely discourage zerging, you're just as oblivious as wrobel is.

Again...Told you this before..Its not suppose to force you to do anything..just like Shieldbreaker didn't force Shield Stacking to go away

What it does do is punish you for stacking..and you know..Potentially cause you trouble

In fact the only person in this thread spreading a talking point is you..and its a poor one at that as usual.

Xsorus · April 2016

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

ZOS should have thought about altering some skills in order to make them useful in a situation where you have to spread... And that is not the case for the restoring light abilities at the moment nor for the alliance support abilities.

For example : healing ritual has a reduced cast time and can be effective in a group now but what is the point if people have to spread because of VD ? It's nonsensical. And no one is using it in PVE raids anyway. So that skill is still not effective.

The way abilities work in the game make them useful only if people are stacking and a single set (VD) made it completely useless. Many support skills must be reworked with that in mind. You can't expect people to change their gameplay if these skills are based on grouping... @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

See this is the problem with the game currently...You're looking at something that offers extreme benefit (Templar house) and complaining now that something exists that offers a possible counter play to that benefit.

Before VD and PD came a long...Stacking up is the absolute best strategy..Not only do you get all the buffs and healing from all the spells and such in this game..You also got a Passive form of mitigation that you freely enjoyed just by being close to someone else past 6 people....

What these sets do is offer something of a disincentive to stacking up and recieving these buffs..which is how its suppose to work...AOE spells are designed to force you to spread out...So you have to weigh the Pros and Cons of stacking in this game now.

Now there is one thing i'd support in regards to VD..that it work more like PD when it comes to scaling..Even though love blowing up even small groups of players (like 5 or 6) i'd still support lesser damage on those groups vs more on Larger Groups.

Mojmir · April 2016

They should give you the vd set and proxy when you first go to cyrodiil,and the grand warlord can tell you welcome to pvp. Lol

Jaronking · April 2016

Only problem I have with VD is it pricing early if they fixed that I would be fine with this set.At least 4 times a hour I die to a early proc.

Serenityx · April 2016

Most people view zergs in their current state in cyrodil a bad thing. Which is understandable if your a solo player but as bad as people think zergs are how is making one player able to take out large groups in a single blow a good thing? You seem like you don't PvP that much, just from what you said and that this happened in IC not cyrodil. So from YOUR point of view, you can see it as not a bad thing. For those who actually care about PvP campaigns and scoring for your alliance vicious death is clearly unbalanced and too easy to abuse.

Here's an example from my point of view:

https://youtu.be/tVSTxEdvW9I

I was next to a group sieging a castle owned by AD and DC strategically waits for the wall to come down before moving in to wipe us. One person from AD was able to take out half that entire group, leaving me and whatever was left to be easy AP gains and no chance of reviving whatsoever. Even though we were still outnumbered in that situation, I don't see one person taking out 4-5 that easily fair by any means.

MikeB · April 2016

Just another horrible attempt to solve Cyrodiil lag. I wish they would stream one of their brainstorming sessions because it would bring lots of laughs to those with common sense and a clue (imo).

Frawr · April 2016

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

And before you run to the meme generator or type your smarmy half-funny retort, realize I am speaking from the perspective of someone who does not use Vicious Death set. I have been killed by it many times.

But here is my point: I was in IC in a red buff server (I'm DC), and our platform in the Arena was surrounded by reds. I'm an archer, so I naturally stayed up top to pick people off and gets some easy AP until they backed off a little so I could jump down. Me and 12 other people. A recipe for...well...Vicious Death. I had not seen it used yet.

So after a few fantastic explosions that killed nearly everyone on the platform instantly, I thought...hmm....maybe I should move away from the group and maybe even jump down or find another spot.

Vicious Death is a damn good zerg-breaker. And I like that. It made me change my game, and yes, I've been hit by it many times since then. But that's no different than all then other times I've died in IC. The set works well for what it seems to be intended. And I don't care if I'm on the receiving end. I just have to alter how I play and keep my distance from large groups.

Am I missing something? Why are people whining for this set to be nerfed? It works well.

@FortheloveofKrist it is an effective zerg breaker. yes,

however,

it is a lazy, cheap and ***-friendly design stuck onto yet another '1 armour set for 1 specific purpose' that is put in place instead of fixing the core system.

If our AOE skills hit more than 6 people for 100% damage then this stupid set would not be required.

For a while, i thought that these sets were being put in because they could monetise it, however, these are free for everyone. Then I realised that these sets aren't even p2w sets (which I would at least understand). They are simply dirt cheap crap mechanics for everyone.

the system looks like this:

I am sorry, I do try to remove the emotion from my comments, but I do get frustrated with the design. The game could be so awesome. Instead it is good with frustrations.

Balance the core systems in the game by tweaking the calculations.

Then we will no longer need these stupid sets and proxy det.

And please just give templars back the 'miss chance' skill instead of the ducking death star. Honestly, a ranged execute that hits so hard that it can be used as the only necessary skill. Remove that skill and give templars a proper buff.

My core suggestion would be to do the following:

remove player innate penetration (making armour more valuable)
reincrease player health back to 1.5:1 ratio, giving everyone higher health

these 2 things would make everyone tougher and mean that we no longer need the aoe falloff or the gimmick designs attached to it.

Xsorus · April 2016

Serenityx wrote: »

Most people view zergs in their current state in cyrodil a bad thing. Which is understandable if your a solo player but as bad as people think zergs are how is making one player able to take out large groups in a single blow a good thing? You seem like you don't PvP that much, just from what you said and that this happened in IC not cyrodil. So from YOUR point of view, you can see it as not a bad thing. For those who actually care about PvP campaigns and scoring for your alliance vicious death is clearly unbalanced and too easy to abuse.

Here's an example from my point of view:

https://youtu.be/tVSTxEdvW9I

I was next to a group sieging a castle owned by AD and DC strategically waits for the wall to come down before moving in to wipe us. One person from AD was able to take out half that entire group, leaving me and whatever was left to be easy AP gains and no chance of reviving whatsoever. Even though we were still outnumbered in that situation, I don't see one person taking out 4-5 that easily fair by any means.

Technically you didn't die to one person..You died to two Prox Dets going off from 2 Separate players

in fact vicious death isn't even what killed you

Buffler · April 2016

The simple fact is pvp is designed by ZOS to be fought in groups, purely by the layout and objectives. Resources with the number of npc's and taking a keep when you have finally breached the inner postern.....you are funnelled together ....so ZOS then tell us this is bad and make armour to counter what their own design commands.

Stop the bandaid fixes and really think about cyrodiil performance. Keep VD but change how pvp works if you hate zergs.

I said in a previous post, if you are running engine guardian then good luck as VD procs of the guardian if its killed.

Mojmir · April 2016

I like the gold I'm making selling the pieces

Beardimus · April 2016

I've only see it in action a bit, and I like it. A zerg was being a pain the butt and a player used it to kill the lot in one hit, spot on as intended I say.

Buffler · April 2016

Beardimus wrote: »

I've only see it in action a bit, and I like it. A zerg was being a pain the butt and a player used it to kill the lot in one hit, spot on as intended I say.

So you think balance is one player taking out a zerg?

Frawr · April 2016

Buffler wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

I've only see it in action a bit, and I like it. A zerg was being a pain the butt and a player used it to kill the lot in one hit, spot on as intended I say.

So you think balance is one player taking out a zerg?

do you think that artificially and deliberately preventing 1 player from taking out a zerg is a good way to make a game?

Buffler · April 2016

Frawr wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

I've only see it in action a bit, and I like it. A zerg was being a pain the butt and a player used it to kill the lot in one hit, spot on as intended I say.

So you think balance is one player taking out a zerg?

do you think that artificially and deliberately preventing 1 player from taking out a zerg is a good way to make a game?

1 player should not be able to wipe out 5/6/7 etc players at once. Do not base a game around group play and then penalise groups for doing it.

PVP is a numbers game. If you are caught 1 v 8 you should lose.