Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Am I the only person who LIKES Vicious Death?
-
flguy147ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭magictucktuck wrote: »If no one liked it people would not be whining on the forums cuz no one would be using it.
People use it cause it can be OP especially around not so good players. People whined about the Bat Swarm spam back in the day too and people used it but that doesnt mean its healthy for the game. VD and giving everybody proxy so easy is a bandaid fix to stop zerging to help out with lag. Again its nothing more than a bandaid fix trying to change how people play the game and not addressing the core issue.1 -
magictucktuck✭✭✭✭✭flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »magictucktuck wrote: »If no one liked it people would not be whining on the forums cuz no one would be using it.
People use it cause it can be OP especially around not so good players. People whined about the Bat Swarm spam back in the day too and people used it but that doesnt mean its healthy for the game. VD and giving everybody proxy so easy is a bandaid fix to stop zerging to help out with lag. Again its nothing more than a bandaid fix trying to change how people play the game and not addressing the core issue.
The question was not is it healthy for the game it was of other people like it0 -
Resipsa131✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »Wow. You know people have gone mad when they validate VD and magicka det as something fair. Yeah it's totally normal and fair for solo players to face someone that has the ability to destroy six man groups. It is tottally normal that these things do more damage than an ultimate. Totally normal. This thread just shows people's inability to take into account other types of play styles with out undermining them too much. You know something called...balance? The only way to achieve a fair agreement is to also give these abilities to stamina. Sounds about fair. Who would disagree? if magicka can why not stamina also? since apparently here the positive feedback it seems that vd and magicka det are valid to use.
let's face it. Who here sees multiple people using a magicka det stacked with shields up the *** and get second thoughts in fighting that fight? and when you see a stamina group with no shields, no magicka det... you haul ass and fight them. Easy AP. That's when you know the balance in this game is terrible.
I'm all for the VD set, but I agree there should be a stamina counterpart, the current bonuses are:
(2 Items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 Items) Adds 967 Maximum Magicka
(4 Items) Adds 688 Spell Critical
When you kill a player they violently explode for 14895 Flame Damage
If they made this set drop in light and medium, and make the both spell damage and critical buffs apply to weapon damage/critical aswell (like molag kena/clever alchemist give bonuses to both) then this set wouldn't be complained about so much as it will be viable for anyone.
As for proxy det this can apply to stamina builds too, the initial hit will obviously do less damage because it scales from Magicka, but most of the damage comes from the bonuses of each person hit when taking out zergs.
Most users of VD are nbs, and they'll jump in with proxy det and soul tether, this still could be achieved with a stamina build, I'd actually love to see someone dragon leap with proxy det and VD, would look so cool.
While we're at it let's give Vigor a Magicka Morph and Caltrops a Magicka Morph also let's let players break out of CC and roll dodge with Magicka if they want Kappa
0 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Resipsa131 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Wow. You know people have gone mad when they validate VD and magicka det as something fair. Yeah it's totally normal and fair for solo players to face someone that has the ability to destroy six man groups. It is tottally normal that these things do more damage than an ultimate. Totally normal. This thread just shows people's inability to take into account other types of play styles with out undermining them too much. You know something called...balance? The only way to achieve a fair agreement is to also give these abilities to stamina. Sounds about fair. Who would disagree? if magicka can why not stamina also? since apparently here the positive feedback it seems that vd and magicka det are valid to use.
let's face it. Who here sees multiple people using a magicka det stacked with shields up the *** and get second thoughts in fighting that fight? and when you see a stamina group with no shields, no magicka det... you haul ass and fight them. Easy AP. That's when you know the balance in this game is terrible.
I'm all for the VD set, but I agree there should be a stamina counterpart, the current bonuses are:
(2 Items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 Items) Adds 967 Maximum Magicka
(4 Items) Adds 688 Spell Critical
When you kill a player they violently explode for 14895 Flame Damage
If they made this set drop in light and medium, and make the both spell damage and critical buffs apply to weapon damage/critical aswell (like molag kena/clever alchemist give bonuses to both) then this set wouldn't be complained about so much as it will be viable for anyone.
As for proxy det this can apply to stamina builds too, the initial hit will obviously do less damage because it scales from Magicka, but most of the damage comes from the bonuses of each person hit when taking out zergs.
Most users of VD are nbs, and they'll jump in with proxy det and soul tether, this still could be achieved with a stamina build, I'd actually love to see someone dragon leap with proxy det and VD, would look so cool.
While we're at it let's give Vigor a Magicka Morph and Caltrops a Magicka Morph also let's let players break out of CC and roll dodge with Magicka if they want Kappa
Where did I once say change an ability? Take your head out of your ass.
1 -
Callous2208✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Resipsa131 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »Wow. You know people have gone mad when they validate VD and magicka det as something fair. Yeah it's totally normal and fair for solo players to face someone that has the ability to destroy six man groups. It is tottally normal that these things do more damage than an ultimate. Totally normal. This thread just shows people's inability to take into account other types of play styles with out undermining them too much. You know something called...balance? The only way to achieve a fair agreement is to also give these abilities to stamina. Sounds about fair. Who would disagree? if magicka can why not stamina also? since apparently here the positive feedback it seems that vd and magicka det are valid to use.
let's face it. Who here sees multiple people using a magicka det stacked with shields up the *** and get second thoughts in fighting that fight? and when you see a stamina group with no shields, no magicka det... you haul ass and fight them. Easy AP. That's when you know the balance in this game is terrible.
I'm all for the VD set, but I agree there should be a stamina counterpart, the current bonuses are:
(2 Items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 Items) Adds 967 Maximum Magicka
(4 Items) Adds 688 Spell Critical
When you kill a player they violently explode for 14895 Flame Damage
If they made this set drop in light and medium, and make the both spell damage and critical buffs apply to weapon damage/critical aswell (like molag kena/clever alchemist give bonuses to both) then this set wouldn't be complained about so much as it will be viable for anyone.
As for proxy det this can apply to stamina builds too, the initial hit will obviously do less damage because it scales from Magicka, but most of the damage comes from the bonuses of each person hit when taking out zergs.
Most users of VD are nbs, and they'll jump in with proxy det and soul tether, this still could be achieved with a stamina build, I'd actually love to see someone dragon leap with proxy det and VD, would look so cool.
While we're at it let's give Vigor a Magicka Morph and Caltrops a Magicka Morph also let's let players break out of CC and roll dodge with Magicka if they want Kappa
You say this in jest but if they forced magicka users to use that magicka pool for sprint, break free, sneak and dodge roll...good god the qq would melt these forums.2 -
LBxFinalDeath✭✭✭✭I solely dislike that vicious death can proc several times on a single person.
For example I'm staying away from friendlies, all of a sudden two non-vets gap close past me to the enemy...the enemy happens to be a Sorc running it and instakills both of them just as they are flying past me.
I take around 30K damage and die just from vicious death in two ticks.
VD should require a group of 6 enemies or higher to be near the guy that dies or it doesn't proc.
You know...make it require a large force up to a zerg be present or it does nothing.
Its a really cheesy set thats not being used for its actual purpose as is.
As is its more the large groups to zergs using it against small groups to guarantee they without a doubt win since "Oh look we zerged down your friendly in your two man group, heres a 15K VD tick for you as you're fleeing."Edited by LBxFinalDeath on April 14, 2016 8:08PM2 -
Callous2208✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭it is really great that we finally have a zerg buster!
good job Zeni!!
You forgot the winking face to show you were just joking.
Edit: That was snarky and uncalled for on my part and I apologize. However, I honestly believe at this point, anyone who firmly believes VD is a legitimate zerg buster and that it is being used as such in Cyrodiil currently....have not PvP'd since its release. This is not a zerg buster. No one is out busting zergs with VD, it's just not happening. This is a setup that is being used by zergs to quickly roll over small groups, or nb gankers to quickly kill a small group of players. VD has caused people to bunch up even more, as now more than ever, there is only safety in the zerg. Furthermore, everybody and their brother uses this set now, so even the zerg vs zerg battle, is still a game of who pops who first. If you like the set, fine, I'm not here to tell anyone they shouldn't use it or are not allowed to think it's funny or cool. But lets take this thing for what it is, and I can assure you, that is not a zerg buster.Edited by Callous2208 on April 14, 2016 8:12PM1 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭i am archer too. i say TG meta is better than meta before, but i dont lime that direction pvp has. soon, it doesnt matter what class you are,it will be about armor set you haveIrwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade0 -
Resipsa131✭✭✭
I don't doubt they would my point is that we shouldn't make an identical item set for stamina users that does the same thing as Magicka. And yes I was against adding in the Julianous set that mimics HUndings RageCallous2208 wrote: »You say this in jest but if they forced magicka users to use that magicka pool for sprint, break free, sneak and dodge roll...good god the qq would melt these forums.
0 -
Callous2208✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Resipsa131 wrote: »
I don't doubt they would my point is that we shouldn't make an identical item set for stamina users that does the same thing as Magicka. And yes I was against adding in the Julianous set that mimics HUndings RageCallous2208 wrote: »You say this in jest but if they forced magicka users to use that magicka pool for sprint, break free, sneak and dodge roll...good god the qq would melt these forums.
Fair enough, and I agree.0 -
redTechInc✭✭✭Resipsa131 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »
While we're at it let's give Vigor a Magicka Morph and Caltrops a Magicka Morph also let's let players break out of CC and roll dodge with Magicka if they want Kappa
then give us stamina morphs of the dk aoe dot, of repentance, of inhale, of breath of life, of the templar class dot, of jesus beam, of course a stam morph of flame leash and more let dawnbreaker only deal physical damage from now on, because with the exception of dragon jump there's no ulti that also hits with physical damage.
Quit using vigor and caltrops as excuse, they are exactly 2 skills compared to a *** of other skills stam-players feel they should get too. It's not an valid argument anymore, not in this vd-proxy-aoe meta.Edited by redTechInc on April 14, 2016 8:15PM1 -
Resipsa131✭✭✭
What is this "us"? I find Stamina classes more enjoyable in PvP I've got 2H DK and a Biting Jabs Stamplar but saying we need sets that mimic magicka or stamina is just bad for build diversity.redTechInc wrote: »then give us stamina morphs of the dk aoe dot, of repentance, of inhale, of breath of life, of the templar class dot, of jesus beam, of course a stam morph of flame leash and more let dawnbreaker only deal physical damage from now on, because with the exception of dragon jump there's no ulti that also hits with physical damage.
Quit using vigor and caltrops as excuse, they are exactly 2 skills compared to a *** of other skills stam-players feel they should get too. It's not an valid argument anymore, not in this vd-proxy-aoe meta.
0 -
redTechInc✭✭✭Was more referring to that "argument" of @psychotic13 regarding magicka morphs of vigor and caltrops. This grinds my gears.0
-
vamp_emily✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Wow. You know people have gone mad when they validate VD and magicka det as something fair. Yeah it's totally normal and fair for solo players to face someone that has the ability to destroy six man groups. It is tottally normal that these things do more damage than an ultimate. Totally normal. This thread just shows people's inability to take into account other types of play styles with out undermining them too much. You know something called...balance? The only way to achieve a fair agreement is to also give these abilities to stamina. Sounds about fair. Who would disagree? if magicka can why not stamina also? since apparently here the positive feedback it seems that vd and magicka det are valid to use.
let's face it. Who here sees multiple people using a magicka det stacked with shields up the *** and get second thoughts in fighting that fight? and when you see a stamina group with no shields, no magicka det... you haul ass and fight them. Easy AP. That's when you know the balance in this game is terrible.
Just my opinion.
Balance is achieved when you have a group of players fighting against another group of players. Some players will have more skills, more CP, and more power; but it all balances out during group fights.
By the way, I am a stam build and you can haul ass and fight me if you want, but I must warn you in advanced that my invisible magic NB friends are using me as bait to kill you
VD is not the problem, players need to start thinking more, instead of just balling up.
If you want a friend, get a dog.
AW Rank: Grand Warlord 1 ( level 49)0 -
vamp_emily✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »I'd actually love to see someone dragon leap with proxy det and VD, would look so cool.
That does sound cool
If you want a friend, get a dog.
AW Rank: Grand Warlord 1 ( level 49)0 -
Callous2208✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭vamp_emily wrote: »Wow. You know people have gone mad when they validate VD and magicka det as something fair. Yeah it's totally normal and fair for solo players to face someone that has the ability to destroy six man groups. It is tottally normal that these things do more damage than an ultimate. Totally normal. This thread just shows people's inability to take into account other types of play styles with out undermining them too much. You know something called...balance? The only way to achieve a fair agreement is to also give these abilities to stamina. Sounds about fair. Who would disagree? if magicka can why not stamina also? since apparently here the positive feedback it seems that vd and magicka det are valid to use.
let's face it. Who here sees multiple people using a magicka det stacked with shields up the *** and get second thoughts in fighting that fight? and when you see a stamina group with no shields, no magicka det... you haul ass and fight them. Easy AP. That's when you know the balance in this game is terrible.
Just my opinion.
Balance is achieved when you have a group of players fighting against another group of players. Some players will have more skills, more CP, and more power; but it all balances out during group fights.
By the way, I am a stam build and you can haul ass and fight me if you want, but I must warn you in advanced that my invisible magic NB friends are using me as bait to kill you
VD is not the problem, players need to start thinking more, instead of just balling up.
Your group will be steamrolled by that other group balling up. Most likely you will fall after one of you succumbs to your wounds and explodes, killing the others.0 -
ArcanusMagus✭✭✭Callous2208 wrote: »ArcanusMagus wrote: »I put together the set within the last few days and love it - it's hilarious. Frankly, I'm not sure that I'll be keeping it, though. I prefer to run as cc support with a little aoe (sorc) and I'm just not set up for big burst damage like I used to be so VD isn't optimal for my playstyle.
I have seen VD's effect on alot of group play in Cyrodiil and I love the results. Since VD's range isn't that big, it's only killing big zergball groups. It broke the old meta of stacking as tightly as possible and following a crown around and I suspect that's where the anger directed at VD is coming from. I think that meta was ridiculous and needed to change. You don't have to be on top of each other to play as a group. This is just a time to adapt.
I don't know where you pvp, but that meta has not changed, only gotten worse. VD Is doing nothing to wipe or discourage zergball groups. Small groups are the most affected by VD. So now the meta is VD up, zerg up, and hope you outlast the enemy zerg. I suspect those haralding this as a welcome zerg buster, are not pvping and simply basing their assumption on what they were told the set was supposed to do.
NA PC Azura's Star as EP. I usually run in a group of 4-8 people. I haven't played in a few days, but I stayed in the top 10 all last week without really trying to get ap more than the next guy. I might still be in the top 10 - I don't know and don't much care. I'm not interested in a pissing match over what you believe - this is my experience in Cyrodiil since VD and your mileage may vary.
The big zergballs are not common on Azura's right now, but when I have seen them get rolling, they melt in VD. Are there few zergballs because of the population on the server, or the fact that there are no champion points active on the server, or VD or something else? I can't answer that.
I do know that if I'm surrounded closely by players, I'm at risk of a VD death. I know if I put inevitable det or curse on someone who runs to his healers, I should watch my ap counter for a few seconds for that little rush of satisfaction.Arcanus Magus
Chrysamere Pact1 -
Callous2208✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ArcanusMagus wrote: »Callous2208 wrote: »ArcanusMagus wrote: »I put together the set within the last few days and love it - it's hilarious. Frankly, I'm not sure that I'll be keeping it, though. I prefer to run as cc support with a little aoe (sorc) and I'm just not set up for big burst damage like I used to be so VD isn't optimal for my playstyle.
I have seen VD's effect on alot of group play in Cyrodiil and I love the results. Since VD's range isn't that big, it's only killing big zergball groups. It broke the old meta of stacking as tightly as possible and following a crown around and I suspect that's where the anger directed at VD is coming from. I think that meta was ridiculous and needed to change. You don't have to be on top of each other to play as a group. This is just a time to adapt.
I don't know where you pvp, but that meta has not changed, only gotten worse. VD Is doing nothing to wipe or discourage zergball groups. Small groups are the most affected by VD. So now the meta is VD up, zerg up, and hope you outlast the enemy zerg. I suspect those haralding this as a welcome zerg buster, are not pvping and simply basing their assumption on what they were told the set was supposed to do.
NA PC Azura's Star as EP. I usually run in a group of 4-8 people. I haven't played in a few days, but I stayed in the top 10 all last week without really trying to get ap more than the next guy. I might still be in the top 10 - I don't know and don't much care. I'm not interested in a pissing match over what you believe - this is my experience in Cyrodiil since VD and your mileage may vary.
The big zergballs are not common on Azura's right now, but when I have seen them get rolling, they melt in VD. Are there few zergballs because of the population on the server, or the fact that there are no champion points active on the server, or VD or something else? I can't answer that.
I do know that if I'm surrounded closely by players, I'm at risk of a VD death. I know if I put inevitable det or curse on someone who runs to his healers, I should watch my ap counter for a few seconds for that little rush of satisfaction.
Perhaps a difference in campaign then friend. Azuras is the only one I haven't frequented in a while. Could be either of the explanations you gave I suppose. Honestly, I cannot answer that either.0 -
Gulkrim-mur✭✭✭Right if your going to back up like a zombie horde dont be mad when a gernade goes off lol. Iv been proxy det and vicious its not a big deal keep your space. Regardless something is going is goong to kill you in pvp idc. At least when ur ganked or outnunbered u have a chance to even the fight. Tho someone else on the zerg side could be using this stuff too lol. Its w.e and still fun.0
-
MoeCoastie✭✭✭never used VD...I like what its done to peoples pvp habits.
VD zerg vs VD zerg is a moot point. Dont know why people think this is justification for anything.
VD zerg vs VD small man. Zerg is geared with VD. Zergs use AoEs...its gonna happen. They dont use it to target small mans, they are geared to fight zergs. Same reason zergs use proxi vs solo's and small mans. Its because they already geared with it. There are a plethora of other abilities which would probably be more effective vs solos but because they already have it they use it!
Havent seen a zerg ball in a while. Ive seen lots of zergs, just not concentrated in a tiny area/pixel.0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭My only problem with Vicious Death is that it isn't JUST a zerg buster. Even small groups of 4-6 get destroyed by it and that doesn't seem right or fair.Argonian forever0 -
Runs✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't care about it one way or another with the exception of the "Display Bug" in recap. I think that needs to be fixed.
I would like to see a stamina based version of this set though.Runs| Orc Nightblade • Chim-el Adabal| Dunmer Templar • M'air the Honest| Khajiit Templar
Oddity| Altmer Sorceror • Drizlo| Orc DragonKnight • Lady Ra Gada| Redguard Sorceror
Taste-of-Hist-Sap| Argonian Nightblade • War'den Peace| Khajiit Warden • Little Warden Annie Altmer Warden
Ports with Blood| Breton Templar • Dirty-Old-Man| Dunmer DragonKnight • Eyes-of-the-Sun| Argonian DragonKnight
Bleak Mystique| Nord Warden • Polychronopolous| Imperial Sorceror • Bullcrit| Khajiit Nightblade
PC NA CP 1250+ and still a noob
At Writs End - A place to complete master writs0 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭FortheloveofKrist wrote: »And before you run to the meme generator or type your smarmy half-funny retort, realize I am speaking from the perspective of someone who does not use Vicious Death set. I have been killed by it many times.
But here is my point: I was in IC in a red buff server (I'm DC), and our platform in the Arena was surrounded by reds. I'm an archer, so I naturally stayed up top to pick people off and gets some easy AP until they backed off a little so I could jump down. Me and 12 other people. A recipe for...well...Vicious Death. I had not seen it used yet.
So after a few fantastic explosions that killed nearly everyone on the platform instantly, I thought...hmm....maybe I should move away from the group and maybe even jump down or find another spot.
Vicious Death is a damn good zerg-breaker. And I like that. It made me change my game, and yes, I've been hit by it many times since then. But that's no different than all then other times I've died in IC. The set works well for what it seems to be intended. And I don't care if I'm on the receiving end. I just have to alter how I play and keep my distance from large groups.
Am I missing something? Why are people whining for this set to be nerfed? It works well.
the concept is great but in practice its a bit absurd.
While I agree zergs needed something like this to stop them generally speaking its overpowered.
1 vs 5 a single player should not be able to kill everyone because of a single proc that pretty much chains indefinitely if most of the opponents are half health. It makes pvp effortless and skillless and accommodates the already overtuned nightblade class.
Now its just Proxy, lotus, soul tether, sap. boom. effortless and ruins pvp at least for me and quite a few others ive talked to about it actually.Ah, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.0 -
FortheloveofKrist✭✭✭✭✭
✭
the concept is great but in practice its a bit absurd.
While I agree zergs needed something like this to stop them generally speaking its overpowered.
1 vs 5 a single player should not be able to kill everyone because of a single proc that pretty much chains indefinitely if most of the opponents are half health. It makes pvp effortless and skillless and accommodates the already overtuned nightblade class.
Now its just Proxy, lotus, soul tether, sap. boom. effortless and ruins pvp at least for me and quite a few others ive talked to about it actually.
The funny thing is it's my stam NB that is getting destroyed by VD in Imperial City. I refuse to respec as a magicka NB.
But the thread certainly started a lively discussion. Thanks (to the community) for all the input.
0 -
Lettigall✭✭✭✭✭
✭How can you call a VD a zergbuster if it needs just 2 people to start working? Am I zerging when go help outnumbered friendly?
This set have very good 4 set peace bonuses and OP 5th bonus. If it was a really a zergbuster not just BS OP bandaid fix, it would have minimal enemy player requirement around set user.Some men just want to watch the world burn... I just want a cold beer!1 -
aLi3nZ✭✭✭✭I use it. But I have to admit, buffing up and timing a vd, prox, soul tether bomb using spell pot and clever alchemist doesn't really take much skill and it can often result in 1 hit killing multiple people. It's a lot of fun though. I had a dc player raging so hard at me yesterday and kept messaging me and I couldn't respond back. Kept going on how I was cheating, exploiting and that he would keep coming to fight me and was going to send a video to zos because I am doing more damage then is possible and vd is killing him rather than going off after death. That guy was so crazy, he also thought that I had Ad toons.
I think the problem isn't just vd. It's clever alchemist and all the other buffs Mage nb can stack so that players can get 1 hit killed from a cloaked player that they can't see coming. 4500+ spell power can result in 1 second alive next second dead.0 -
kylerjalen✭✭✭I just finally got the complete set and have rolling around in it for the past couple of minutes but to be honest, I don't even know how it works. Does it proc on every pvp kill you make? Its not like Phoenix where there's an obvious visible signal and effect.
0
