Ransack...let's change it

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

Puncture (S&B) is one of two taunts in the game. Pierce Armor is the go to morph for tanks. Ransack is a selfish morph; one not often used by tanks. Ransack however is used as a DPS skill by S&B dps toons. The problem is that you cannot Ransack in PvE, as a DPS, without pulling aggro or causing enemies to gain taunt immunity.

So...

...would it be possible to remove taunt from the Ransack morph? Make it a DPS skill without taunt.

Yeay? Nay? Is this something the community would support or do you disagree with this? Thoughts?

I'm not tagging the ZOS team as I want this to be more of a community discussion, but feel free to tag the applicable parties in your replies if you feel is warrants.

xXTomahawkXx · April 2016

As a stamina dragon knight tank, this would make tanking in PUGs wayy easier because it happens way too often where aggro is pulled away from me by other "dps" players.

Necrelios · April 2016

Make it a DPS moprh and give it an execute for 300% damage with target at below 30% health. That would be pretty cool.

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

Necrelios wrote: »

Make it a DPS moprh and give it an execute for 300% damage with target at below 30% health. That would be pretty cool.

I would agree with that. An S&B execute wouldn't be a bad thing. Although if they ever scale Master weapons to v16 (cp160) that might be an OP combo.

phaneub17_ESO · April 2016

I been thinking that Ransack instead would place a debuff on the target that worked like a group version of Degeneration where it grants anyone hitting the target some Stamina recovery for hitting the target.

"While active on the target you and your allies Light and Heavy attacks have a 15% chance to restore Stamina equal to 5/6/7/8% of the damage caused"

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I been thinking that Ransack instead would place a debuff on the target that worked like a group version of Degeneration where it grants anyone hitting the target some Stamina recovery for hitting the target.

"While active on the target you and your allies Light and Heavy attacks have a 15% chance to restore Stamina equal to 5/6/7/8% of the damage caused"

Doesn't solve the issue of aggro'ing enemies as a S&B users main attack. Futhermore, I still wouldn't use it on my tank as the debuff pierce armor puts on enemies helps the team much more than some stamina return. Healers can always throw shards if needed.

Your idea is a good one for a team buff for a skill, I'm just not sure Ransack is the right skill for the buff.

Judas Helviaryn · April 2016

I'm absolutely for ransack losing the taunt, its my main dps skill, but I'm forced to switch to other weapons for PVE.

Rune_Relic · April 2016

I'll reply once I've seen what DB brings.

CaptainBeerDude · April 2016

Use it to taunt a single target away from the tank, melt it and move on to the next. Other DD could be running AoE around the tank. Just thinking of ways to make it work in its current form.

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

Use it to taunt a single target away from the tank, melt it and move on to the next. Other DD could be running AoE around the tank. Just thinking of ways to make it work in its current form.

Doesn't work on single, large adds or bosses without adds as it will either pull aggro from the Tank or cause the boss to become taunt immune. Only way to make it work is to remove the taunt from the skill.

CaptainBeerDude · April 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

Use it to taunt a single target away from the tank, melt it and move on to the next. Other DD could be running AoE around the tank. Just thinking of ways to make it work in its current form.

Doesn't work on single, large adds or bosses without adds as it will either pull aggro from the Tank or cause the boss to become taunt immune. Only way to make it work is to remove the taunt from the skill.

Yeah, maybe switch to a back bar? Bow or 2h?

AverageJo3Gam3r · April 2016

Why not just use heroic slash in PvE? This would be a horrible change because I am a PvE tank and a PvP dps. so I'd have to respec my morphs every night (I usually do gold key then PvP).

Oh_Skrivva · April 2016

Why use either morph as tank. All tank needs to use is blood altar. Blood altar is OP (sarsacasm)

The stamina return suggestion would be nice. Cause if healer is using electronic drain the boss will get the debuff OS lowering resistance from that.

Speely · April 2016

Wait... People use Ransack to fill DPS roles? Why? (Sorry if I sound snarky... I am genuinely wondering why, though.)

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

Speely wrote: »

Wait... People use Ransack to fill DPS roles? Why? (Sorry if I sound snarky... I am genuinely wondering why, though.)

DPS toons that use Sword and Shield, usually Stam DKs, will use Ransack as their main spammable. It is a very cheap skill, it's insta cast, it procs a small armor buff, it is easy to weave into rotations using bash, and (somewhat outdated) it synergizes great with the Master Sword to give health on attacks. Problem is they cannot run the same skill set/build if they go into PvE.

Scheneighnay · April 2016

As a tank, I much prefer ransack to pierce armor- ransack does, after all, increase your own physical resistance.

Pierce armor is definitely the DPS morph, considering it's a debuff.

phaneub17_ESO · April 2016

Scheneighnay wrote: »

As a tank, I much prefer ransack to pierce armor- ransack does, after all, increase your own physical resistance.

Pierce armor is definitely the DPS morph, considering it's a debuff.

That's not the way most people see it though, when your Pierce Armor you are increasing the damage done by the rest of your group allowing you to kill bosses faster whereas no one but you gets any benefit from Ransack.

Refuse2GrowUp · April 2016

Scheneighnay wrote: »

As a tank, I much prefer ransack to pierce armor- ransack does, after all, increase your own physical resistance.

Pierce armor is definitely the DPS morph, considering it's a debuff.

Kinda got that backwards mate. As a tank you should be running Pierce Armor to debuff enemies for your team. That small personal armor buff isn't necessary for surviveability as a tank, and is a selfish morph of the skill. Yes, a healer running Elemental Drain would apply the same spell resist debuff. None-the-less, Pierce Armor is standard for tanks.

Conversely, Ransack is the go to morph for DPS, especially in PvP, because unlike tanks who have a more than adequate surviveability, a med armor DPS toon benefits more from the armor buff. Pierce Armor isn't horrible as a morph for a DPS, but ransack is still the more common opt.

Speely · April 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Scheneighnay wrote: »

As a tank, I much prefer ransack to pierce armor- ransack does, after all, increase your own physical resistance.

Pierce armor is definitely the DPS morph, considering it's a debuff.

Kinda got that backwards mate. As a tank you should be running Pierce Armor to debuff enemies for your team. That small personal armor buff isn't necessary for surviveability as a tank, and is a selfish morph of the skill. Yes, a healer running Elemental Drain would apply the same spell resist debuff. None-the-less, Pierce Armor is standard for tanks.

Conversely, Ransack is the go to morph for DPS, especially in PvP, because unlike tanks who have a more than adequate surviveability, a med armor DPS toon benefits more from the armor buff. Pierce Armor isn't horrible as a morph for a DPS, but ransack is still the more common opt.

I get it now and see how PvP shield users find use from Ransack and subsequently find fault with it in PvE. But shouldn't they be re-gearing for PvE anyway? I can see using Ransack in PvP, but in PvE there are other options for a Stamina build. If Ransack were to be improved (which I think it should be,) it would likely make it more attractive for tanks as well. Say you run with a guildie who slots Elemental Drain all the time. Ransack would be more attractive then, but making it a second-rate DPS option for PvE at the expense of making it useless to tanks seems like a bad fix for a skill that is designed to be a utility tank skill. Heroic Slash exists for those who insist on PvE DPSing as a shield user, yes? Better DPS and Ult gain (which also equals more DPS if you are filling that role.)

Expecting to roll into PvE with a shield on and have tank-centric weapon skills catered to DPS just seems a bit off to me.

dodgehopper_ESO · April 2016

I get an uneasy feeling about this. I'd rather you look at executes in other areas of the skill line. This is the Tank Skill line, or at least a major chunk of it.

code65536 · April 2016

Scheneighnay wrote: »

As a tank, I much prefer ransack to pierce armor- ransack does, after all, increase your own physical resistance.

Pierce armor is definitely the DPS morph, considering it's a debuff.

The armor from Ransack is such a joke. It's the equivalent to about 1.5% damage mitigation. That's a rounding error. On the other hand, the resist debuff makes a lot of difference for your team.

Lynx7386 · April 2016

While we're at it, can we get a significant damage buff to power bash and deep slash?

1h/shield's damage and efficiency are absolutely terrible.