Game Immersion

Gidorick · April 2016

You guys are mistaking "immersion" for "realism" those are two VERY different things.

It's not immersive to be playing khajiit from all over Tamriel as only kind of furstock. It's not immersive to have argonian horns NOT poking out of helms.

It's not realistic to play either of these races.

It would be more immersive AND more realistic if we could loot exactly what the enemy has on them. Perhaps the armor is ALWAYS broken. Perhaps it's only ever good for deconstructing... there are ways.

As for loot... it could make a bit more sense with things like jewelry being found in mud crabs and swords and armor being found in large crocodiles.

The loot itself could actually tell an interesting and purposeful narrative with the different enemies. Many times it appears to.

In terms of inventory management... there is a more immersive alternative...

From here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162693/more-bags-and-encumbrance-concepts/p1

Gidorick wrote: »

Inventory continues to be an issue in ESO, but this doesn’t mean that everyone can’t be given an opportunity to benefit from a few items that could be added to the crown store.

The general rule for bags are as follows:
Will consume one inventory space.

Cannot contain other bags.

Can be moved between the Bank and Inventory while full.

Cannot be sold to or traded to another player.

Cannot be "destroyed" unless they are completely empty.

Should be able to name bags for easy reference and organization.

Right clicking items in a bag and selecting "Remove From Bag" would place the bag back into the main inventory.

Backpacks should be able to be equipped if desired, creating a visible backpack on the character model. This could be accomplished by allowing backpacks to be equipped in the costume slot OR in the accessory slot as described HERE

Bag Suggestions
No-Restriction Inventory Bags: These bags provide a set number of inventory spaces. These bags should, by default, fall under the Miscellaneous Category and maybe players should be allowed to "assign" a category to the bag so that the bag appears in that inventory tab.
Large Backpack (2000 Crowns): Provides 30 Inventory Spaces

Medium Backpack (1500 Crowns): Provides 25 inventory spaces

Small Backpack (1000 Crowns): Provides 20 inventory spaces

Heavy Sack (750 Crowns): Provides 15 inventory spaces

Sack (500 Crowns): Provides 10 inventory spaces

Small Sack (250 Crowns): Provides 5 inventory spaces

Crafting Material Bags: These bags have enough spaces to hold one stack of every type of material for the specific craft. Only the specific craft’s materials can be placed within the corresponding bag.
Alchemist Satchel (1500 Crowns)

Blacksmith’s Haversack (1500 Crowns)

Clothier’s Tote (1500 Crowns)

Enchanter’s Purse (1500 Crowns)

Provisioner’s Knapsack (1500 Crowns)

Woodworker’s Duffel (1500 Crowns)

Lock-Boxes: These little portable lock-boxes are for players who would like a way to prevent themselves from accidentally selling or deconstructing items. Placing an item in a lockbox will keep it safe!
Locked Box (1000 Crowns): Provides 10 inventory spaces

Locked Purse (500 Crowns): Provides 5 inventory spaces

Over-Encumbrance: This new inventory mechanic will allow players to pick up MORE than their inventory space permits. This allows players to temporarily over-burden themselves so they are not strictly limited to their inventory space. Since Over-Encumbrance only occurs when a player exceeds the number of inventory spaces they have available, players are able to purchase bags and immediately relieve themselves of their Over-Encumbered status.

There are three stages of Over-Encumbrance. Players are only prompted of their Over-Encumbrance during the third stage, Heavily Over-Encumbered.
Slightly Encumbered
Players who are carrying up to 5 more items than their inventory allows

Players cannot use “go to”

Paying to travel to a Wayshrine costs 5X more than normal and players can use Wayshrines.

Player default speed is the normal running speed. If players press the sprint button they will spring but will receive the prompt “You are Slightly Encumbered”

Players can use their mounts normally

Moderately Encumbered
Players who are carrying up to 6-10 more items than their inventory allows

Players cannot use “go to”;

Paying to travel to a Wayshrine costs 10X more than normal and players can use Wayshrines.

Players default speed is reduced to walking speed. If they press the sprint button they will run, consume stamina, and will receive the prompt “You are Moderately Encumbered”.

Players can use their mounts, but cannot sprint. They can run normally and if they try to sprint they receive the prompt “You are Moderately Encumbered”.

Heavily Encumbered
Players who are carrying 11-15 more items than their inventory allows

Players cannot use “go to”,

Players cannot pay to travel to a Wayshrine, but can still use Wayshrines.

Player speed is reduced to walking speed. Players cannot run and if they try to run faster wish the sprint key, they will receive the prompt “You are Heavily Encumbered”.

Players can use their mounts. Mount speed is reduced to walking speed and cannot sprint. If they try to sprint they will move at regular running speed and will consume stamina. They will also receive the prompt “You are Heavily Encumbered”.

Greatly Encumbered
Players who are carrying 16-20 more items than their inventory allows

Players cannot use “go to”, cannot pay to travel to a Wayshrine, or use a Wayshrine.

Player speed is completely removed. If they try to move they receive the message "You are Greatly Encumbered." Players cannot sprint or run normally, but they can walk by using the sprint key. They will also receive the prompt “You are Greatly Encumbered”.

Players can use their mounts. Mount speed is reduced to walking speed and cannot sprint. If they try to sprint they receive the prompt “You are Greatly Encumbered”.

Over-Encumbered
Players who are carrying 20-25 more items than their inventory allows

Players cannot use “go to”, cannot pay to travel to a Wayshrine, or use a Wayshrine.

Player speed is completely removed. Players cannot sprint, run normally, or walk. They cannot move normally, or by sprinting. If they try, they will receive the prompt “You are Over-Encumbered”. Players are stuck right where they are.

Players can use their mounts. Mount speed is reduced to walking speed and cannot sprint. As they walk, they will consume stamina and they will recieve the message "You are Over Encumbered." If they try to sprint they just receive the message “You are Over Encumbered.".

This might be simpler in chart format.

Potions for Over-Encumbrance
Potions of Feather: These potions allow a player who is over-encumbered to alleviate the symptoms of being burdened. ZOS could include these as craftable items or purchasable through the Crown Store. Potions can be stacked so a player who is Heavily Encumbered can use one Bargain potion and one Cheap potion to relieve their Encumbrance. If a player uses more than one potion of the same quality they increase the duration of the potion.
Bargain Potion of Feather: Relieve one level of over-encumbrance for 10 minutes

Cheap Potion of Feather: Relieves two levels of over-encumbrance for 10 minutes.

Quaity Potion of Feather: Relieves three levels of over-encumbrance for 10 minutes.

Advanced Potion of Feather: Relieves four levels of over-encumbrance for 10 minutes.

Superior Potion of Feather: Relieves five levels of over-encumbrance for 10 minutes.

Exclusive Potion of Feather: Relieves ALL levels of over-encumbrance for 5 minutes.

I believe these additions will give players what they desire, more inventory, while providing ZOS with another means for revenue. Thoughts?

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

Immersion, you say?
Well, lore-wise even weirder things might happen if the dragon breaks.

Check these 2 books: Where Were You When the Dragon Broke? and The Warp in the West.
Or do you remember how all Daggerfall endings happened at once? This is why we have Mannimarco-Necromancer moon and Mannimarco-mortal in Oblivion.
And during the events of ESO, White-Gold Tower is being dragged into Oblivion (and if you're into lore you know how important the towers are), and after Mannimarco's tampering with the Amulet of KIngs, anything might happen...

As for weird loot, its just a part of game mechanics. Like npcs walking with arrows in their heads in previous TES games.

Korah_Eaglecry · April 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

That King is a quest mob: these should not respawn in Elder Scrolls.

Remember, this "MMO" is based on a RP game which was single player.

IMHO, the quest mobs should have a seperate instance, player/group based.
Not open, as it is now.
Some dungeons are open, but this, for a quest dungeon, is, IMHO, just... not right, you know?

Now, I do respect your point, and you have a valid one, if this was no more than just the next MMO.
But it's not just another MMO, is it...?

ITS AN ONLINE RPG. GET OVER IT!

Dromede · April 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

That King is a quest mob: these should not respawn in Elder Scrolls.

Remember, this "MMO" is based on a RP game which was single player.

IMHO, the quest mobs should have a seperate instance, player/group based.
Not open, as it is now.
Some dungeons are open, but this, for a quest dungeon, is, IMHO, just... not right, you know?

Now, I do respect your point, and you have a valid one, if this was no more than just the next MMO.
But it's not just another MMO, is it...?

Regarding quest mobs being a separate instance - i think that's the way it used to be in the very beginning of the game. Even now a town with a major storyline would look differerent before/after quest. So, people in the same group would zone out and would not be able to quest together/help each other out.

Zos made a conscious decision to make a step towards group play vs personal immersion, and i support it. It's an MMO, and players are supposed to be able to cooperate. That's why grouped players don't have to talk to NPC each separately. Instead, if 1 person out of the group does it, the quest progresses onto the next step.

Also, the server load - i'm speculating here, so correct me if i'm wrong, but the way i understand it, you're asking to create a separate zone for each player for each quest, kind of like Harborage is right now. My game lags in Harborage a lot more than in Auridon right by the entrance, and it would be extremely annoying if every major storyline quest had the same lag spike.

I understand that ES game should have decent level of immersion, but i don't think we should forget this is a MMORPG game. There's just as much roleplaying here as there is multi user cooperation.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · April 2016

Whether it's an MMO or not, these features can EASILY be implemented on ESO without destroying anything of the MMO part.
I mean, would you dislike the idea of having your OWN boss, in it's own instance which is Private/Group instead of Open to All?

Just thinking out loud.

Lysette · April 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

Xellos77 wrote: »

It's the price of playing a game, especially a MMO.

But it doesn't HAVE to be the price @Xellos77 ... give me any mechanic in a single player Tes game and I'll tell you how it could be modified and worked into an MMO setting.

I am quite certain you actually can - I have read a lot of your suggestions.

Lysette · April 2016

Xellos77 wrote: »

I guess I just don't think about it so deeply. I find it immersing enough that I don't sweat the small stuff.

Like others mentioned, if we want to push immersion, when do we stop? Who wants to go back to the bank after picking up 10 ore? Where are we storing that second greatsword? 50 Soul Gems the size of your hand? Where are those stored? A catapult in your pocket? What??

Like a good movie sometimes we suspend disbelief. To me, this is just nitpicking.

Not to talk about having a whole stable of mounts with you all the time and just select one, when you need it. Most of the concepts in an MMO with role play elements are pretty old and were present already in the first MUDs and MUD-like games, which came out long before there even was an internet as early as 1978 - just a dozen players could play it, but it had already a lot of those concepts. So these concepts are to a major part nearly 40 years old and have proven to be interesting game play. The late 90s were the domain of MUDs as internet based online games - just text-based - but they had all these features and even more than what you can find in MMOs nowadays. Those were immersive as well, for people with imagination.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · April 2016

I can be both though.
One could add some things whilst leaving others (like Inv and Stable) alone.
One thing does not relate to the other.

But again, just thinking out loud.

Krist · April 2016

I really do get the OPs point, but I think others said it best. It is an MMO, even if it is Elder Scrolls. I actually never really think about the problems mentioned when immersing in the game. Worrying about the same boss would then lead to worrying about the same person that just asked you to fix the same problem now asking another player to fix the same problem you fixed. You have to not let those things get to you when playing an MMO.
I also get what you are saying about instances, but let's not give the mechanics MORE reasons to glitch on us.

Fall into your character and what your character is doing. RP'wise you cannot use some of the content anyway. Imagine sitting there talking to your buddy and telling him how you dispatched the Vampire Longtooth, then he tells you no, he did. Then you tell him exactly how you did it, and he says no, he did that. Suddenly you are ready to fight for your honor but you are both the same faction so you can't. You can just pose and mean mug one another.

You have to give some room for the MMO aspect of it. As an rp'er I totally get what you are saying though.

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Whether it's an MMO or not, these features can EASILY be implemented on ESO without destroying anything of the MMO part.
I mean, would you dislike the idea of having your OWN boss, in it's own instance which is Private/Group instead of Open to All?

Just thinking out loud.

Actually, instancing everything would hurt game's performance a lot. Zos' servers are not particulalry good, as you know.

Seraseth · April 2016

Logicbomb00 wrote: »

for immersions sake I always think of the loot as gear that the mob is guarding. sure a mudcrab could not possibly have a set of plate in his little shell, but that same set of plate could be lying on the ground near the mudcrab. in this way my immersion stays in 'reality'.

@Logicbomb00 And I thought I was the only one who did that. I told myself that explanation years ago, that after the angry little crab trying to snip your toes off was dead, THEN you could take a better look around and find interesting loot.

7788b14_ESO · April 2016

Ultimately immersion is a state of mind, based on your ability to use your imagination. Yes there will always be things that don't work just as there will be things that do work in immersion within MMO's. Your focus determines your reality.

Wreuntzylla · April 2016

The big immersion breaker for me is that despite all my character has done and gone through, the lowliest city guard is more powerful than I....

7788b14_ESO · April 2016

Seraseth wrote: »

Logicbomb00 wrote: »

for immersions sake I always think of the loot as gear that the mob is guarding. sure a mudcrab could not possibly have a set of plate in his little shell, but that same set of plate could be lying on the ground near the mudcrab. in this way my immersion stays in 'reality'.

@Logicbomb00 And I thought I was the only one who did that. I told myself that explanation years ago, that after the angry little crab trying to snip your toes off was dead, THEN you could take a better look around and find interesting loot.

That's a good idea. The little crab wasn't as much guarding the loot as he was simply guarding his territory in which someone hide loot.

I always thought it was strange that quest bosses had little to no loot on them after having an epic fight with them. But a mudcrab could drop some nice stuff at times.

Xellos77 · April 2016

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

The big immersion breaker for me is that despite all my character has done and gone through, the lowliest city guard is more powerful than I....

I've thought this all along; if the town guards are infinitely more powerful than us "heroes", why are they not out saving the world?

Want immersion? First order of business: make town guards able to be killed instead of omnipotent town-restricted partial DKs who would be better suited at saving the world than us .

Obliterate · April 2016

It's a fantasy game, it should feel like a fantasy game. Immerse yourself in real life for the ultimate immersion feeling.

MornaBaine · April 2016

MMOs have MANY immersion breaking pitfalls. King Casimir keeps turnips in his bedside table? The only clothing you can find to steal in a castle is all peasant's rags? There was an entire plate mail curiass in the belly of that skeever? There's paperwork inside this ale keg? And, my personal favorite... Hi! I'm killing your friend right over here and doing it really loudly! -I- can clearly SEE you..but apparently you can't see me!

I'd truly love a game that focused on RP and immersion...where you actually ended up fighting a lot less because mobs were actually realistically placed but would just award you a lot more experience and where the loot collected would actually be what they were obviously wearing and using.

Sadly, I don't think we're likely to see that game any time soon.

Xundiin · April 2016

srfrogg23 wrote: »

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

That King is a quest mob: these should not respawn in Elder Scrolls.

Remember, this "MMO" is based on a RP game which was single player.

IMHO, the quest mobs should have a seperate instance, player/group based.
Not open, as it is now.
Some dungeons are open, but this, for a quest dungeon, is, IMHO, just... not right, you know?

Now, I do respect your point, and you have a valid one, if this was no more than just the next MMO.
But it's not just another MMO, is it...?

They did this when ESO was first released and it was a disaster. Everything was phased and people couldn't even quest together.

All the phasing that was intended to keep the game immersive for individuals was hindering the MMO aspect of the game so much that people were refusing to play anymore.

The game was changed to be more like other MMOs based on the criticism it received after it first came out. ESO seems to be doing much better now than it was back then for a variety of reasons.

At the end of the day, "immersion" is a state of mind for individual players and different people find different things "immersion breaking", but MMO gameplay is based on allowing multiple people to play in the same space and manipulate each other's mutual game-space for better or worse. Without that, you might as well just play a single player game and have Twitter up on another screen or device.

It's still phased just as heavily, they've just reduced some restrictions. For an example, you can follow your friend into an area that is phased based on quest advancement. He'll disappear to you, but when you group up you'll be able to see each other and help him with his phase. All they've done is improve the phasing, not lessen it. Even WoW hasn't done this.

joker0137 · April 2016

I once killed a rat that had a two handed iron sword in it, guess its must of like ate it or something.

VaxtinTheWolf · April 2016

There was once a time when I paused upon looting purple quality item from a group of skeevers that I stepped on. I believe it was a light armor piece, or a hammer. It's been a few purple items now. But I imagines that skeever wearing said item, or having bottomless pockets to hide these things within.

I dont let these things get me too hung up, but I do have an internal laugh about the possibilities.