Game Immersion

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

For a while I've been playing ESO, and I cannot help but notice the darned obvious immersion breaking loot system.
Example: I see an opponent mage, dressed in cloth, wielding a staff, we fight it out, he dies (if I'm lucky, lol), and upon looting the corpse, he has plate armor or a twohander sword upon him.
Now, knowing how people in the Dark Ages packed their gear, it would have been obvious that the twohander was in his position from the start.
Let's be fair: you simply do not hide a twohander in your socks, right?

Another very annoying thing, immersion breaking, is the fact some bosses are on the open field.

Think of that King gnome, or something in that area, whoms crown you have to recover: you near him, see this other player kill him???, and a wee later this very same NPC pops again?
I'm not quite sure, but this does not happen in reality (I hope, GOD I so hope).

These things are very annoying for a role player.
I mean, many play this game for PvP, to me, Elder Scrolls (played ALL of them) is nothing but role play.

Here I am, werewolf, other Werewolfs should be neutral to me (unless engaged), but nooo....

As Vampire, I miss the Slayers then.
The Silver Sword clan.

I really hope that in the future, these things will change.
Just to sort out the role play feeling for us role players...

Thoughts, ideas, comments: shoot, but keep it decent.
If not, I am a VERY HUNGRY Vampire!
Be warned.

Xellos77

It's the price of playing a game, especially a MMO.

emily3989

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Think of that King gnome, or something in that area, whoms crown you have to recover: you near him, see this other player kill him???, and a wee later this very same NPC pops again?

I'm not quite sure, but this does not happen in reality (I hope, GOD I so hope).

By this rationale, only one person per server could complete this quest? Dude, it's an MMO, mobs respawn, been that way since their inception.

It would be really cool if vampires would con yellow to vamp players, same with werewolfs. Also, I agree that a wisp dropping heavy armor chest piece is a bit odd, they could put a little more effort into loot tables would go a long way, that is if you are even paying attention to what individual mobs are dropping while you are running questlines.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

That King is a quest mob: these should not respawn in Elder Scrolls.

Remember, this "MMO" is based on a RP game which was single player.

IMHO, the quest mobs should have a seperate instance, player/group based.
Not open, as it is now.
Some dungeons are open, but this, for a quest dungeon, is, IMHO, just... not right, you know?

Now, I do respect your point, and you have a valid one, if this was no more than just the next MMO.
But it's not just another MMO, is it...?

Obliterate

Doesn't bother me

emily3989

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

But it's not just another MMO, is it...?

Yes, it is.

I have played probably 10 MMOs, in the last 12 years, all to the point of end-game raiding. The only real difference here is the absence of tab targeting, the way you build your character, some other stuff like that, but as far as the game word itself,

yes, it is.

TheDarkShadow

Well, 1 time I saw a guy with a lump in his pants so I asked: "Is that a catapult in your pants or you just happy to see me?" And he pulled out a 12 meters tall catapult from his pocket and shot me.

Mcwoods55

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

That King is a quest mob: these should not respawn in Elder Scrolls.

Remember, this "MMO" is based on a RP game which was single player.

IMHO, the quest mobs should have a seperate instance, player/group based.
Not open, as it is now.
Some dungeons are open, but this, for a quest dungeon, is, IMHO, just... not right, you know?

Now, I do respect your point, and you have a valid one, if this was no more than just the next MMO.
But it's not just another MMO, is it...?

So you are saying whoever kills it first gets to kill it and the other million players loose out on the quest?
As far as separate instances go that is insane.. Lets take more time to load into another zone and kill a boss and only get to kill it once.... What if I want to farm it for drops? Like white gold tower.... Sorry you get to only do it once and kill kena and hope you get the helmet and if you dont sucks to be you... you killed her and you have to create a new char level it to at least vr 1 and go fight again...

Hluill

I hear you, OP.

The loot thing can be pretty annoying for me too. But the hardware and software requirements for a What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get loot-system would be tremendous. Just once, though, I would love to see someone try a WYSIWYG. Looting corpses could take days.

As to the mob respawning: Don't you respawn?

Granted, that mechanic is immersion-breaking for me. In the real-world, one wakes up in the hospital, or in a pool of their own blood after the fighting's stopped, sometimes to a buddy holding pressure and saying everything is going to be OK.

The whole "no-werewolf aggro" thing... Well, my Nords have to kill Nords all the time, as does my Bosmer. I more bothered by aggressive wildlife. I mean really, why the hell are MMO wolves and bears so freakin' aggressive?

FortheloveofKrist

Not really the "dark ages" when there is magic and human cats riding big cats with cat pets.

Enodoc

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Here I am, werewolf, other Werewolfs should be neutral to me (unless engaged), but nooo....

Nonsense, there's probably more fighting between werewolf clans than there is between the three alliances! Just because you're a werewolf, doesn't suddenly mean every other werewolf will suddenly be friendly

srfrogg23

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

That King is a quest mob: these should not respawn in Elder Scrolls.

Remember, this "MMO" is based on a RP game which was single player.

IMHO, the quest mobs should have a seperate instance, player/group based.
Not open, as it is now.
Some dungeons are open, but this, for a quest dungeon, is, IMHO, just... not right, you know?

Now, I do respect your point, and you have a valid one, if this was no more than just the next MMO.
But it's not just another MMO, is it...?

They did this when ESO was first released and it was a disaster. Everything was phased and people couldn't even quest together.

All the phasing that was intended to keep the game immersive for individuals was hindering the MMO aspect of the game so much that people were refusing to play anymore.

The game was changed to be more like other MMOs based on the criticism it received after it first came out. ESO seems to be doing much better now than it was back then for a variety of reasons.

At the end of the day, "immersion" is a state of mind for individual players and different people find different things "immersion breaking", but MMO gameplay is based on allowing multiple people to play in the same space and manipulate each other's mutual game-space for better or worse. Without that, you might as well just play a single player game and have Twitter up on another screen or device.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Mcwoods55 wrote: »

So you are saying whoever kills it first gets to kill it and the other million players loose out on the quest?
As far as separate instances go that is insane.. Lets take more time to load into another zone and kill a boss and only get to kill it once.... What if I want to farm it for drops? Like white gold tower.... Sorry you get to only do it once and kill kena and hope you get the helmet and if you dont sucks to be you... you killed her and you have to create a new char level it to at least vr 1 and go fight again...

Absolutely not: what I would like to see is those bosses in a small but seperate solo/group instance.
So everyone get to thave the boss, but once.
Dead = dead, after all.
Well... normally, it does, lol.

Hluill wrote: »

I hear you, OP.

The loot thing can be pretty annoying for me too. But the hardware and software requirements for a What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get loot-system would be tremendous.

Excuse me, could you please elaborate?
IMHO is is a software loot table that has to be re-written, it does not have a thing to do with hardware?

Hluill wrote: »

As to the mob respawning: Don't you respawn?[/qoute]
Yes, but two things here:
1) I speak about quest bosses and the like, not normal spawns.
2) I respawn, but I have no soul...
It is mere my body that has been restored, right?
And well, I guess we're heroes for something...
I would not mind a "hardcore" option though.

[quote="Hluill;2877584"The whole "no-werewolf aggro" thing... Well, my Nords have to kill Nords all the time, as does my Bosmer. I more bothered by aggressive wildlife. I mean really, why the hell are MMO wolves and bears so freakin' aggressive?

But how logical is that?
Which is what annoys me, merely saying.

Enodoc wrote: »

Nonsense, there's probably more fighting between werewolf clans than there is between the three alliances! Just because you're a werewolf, doesn't suddenly mean every other werewolf will suddenly be friendly

Wolves are in general social beings.
In movies you have clans battling it out, or going into Vampire hunting, but this is not such a movie, i think?
WW's here are more feral, more "true" wolves?

srfrogg23 wrote: »

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

That King is a quest mob: these should not respawn in Elder Scrolls.

Remember, this "MMO" is based on a RP game which was single player.

IMHO, the quest mobs should have a seperate instance, player/group based.
Not open, as it is now.
Some dungeons are open, but this, for a quest dungeon, is, IMHO, just... not right, you know?

Now, I do respect your point, and you have a valid one, if this was no more than just the next MMO.
But it's not just another MMO, is it...?

They did this when ESO was first released and it was a disaster. Everything was phased and people couldn't even quest together.

All the phasing that was intended to keep the game immersive for individuals was hindering the MMO aspect of the game so much that people were refusing to play anymore.

The game was changed to be more like other MMOs based on the criticism it received after it first came out. ESO seems to be doing much better now than it was back then for a variety of reasons.

At the end of the day, "immersion" is a state of mind for individual players and different people find different things "immersion breaking", but MMO gameplay is based on allowing multiple people to play in the same space and manipulate each other's mutual game-space for better or worse. Without that, you might as well just play a single player game and have Twitter up on another screen or device.

Well, ever since Beta these were the dungeons and quest bosses as we see them here.
Dungeons back then were public, and bosses just on the field.
Now, i am not the regular MMO'er, but a role player, and I think of the series as an RP...
To me this is then immersion breaking...

Gidorick

Xellos77 wrote: »

It's the price of playing a game, especially a MMO.

But it doesn't HAVE to be the price @Xellos77 ... give me any mechanic in a single player Tes game and I'll tell you how it could be modified and worked into an MMO setting.

Volkodav

How deep does someone's immersion have to be that looting the way it is breaks it?
I have never once thought about immersion.Honestly,I havent.I get lost in the game by accident and when I'm in there,the only thing that shocks me out of my mindset is my phone.I cant turn it off,cos it is a landline.
Or,my eyes droop so badly from lack of sleep that I just cant focus anymore.
Then it is sleepy time.

SirAndy

Because magick maybe?


PS: I don't see you complaining about being able to schlepp around 200 iron ingots ...

cyclonus11

Xellos77 wrote: »

It's the price of playing a game, especially a MMO.

Not necessarily. In EverQuest, if a bad guy was swinging it at you, that's what you looted. You could even pick-pocket the weapon on a bad guy and give them a rusty piece of junk, and that's what they would use on you when they aggro.

Xellos77

I guess I just don't think about it so deeply. I find it immersing enough that I don't sweat the small stuff.

Like others mentioned, if we want to push immersion, when do we stop? Who wants to go back to the bank after picking up 10 ore? Where are we storing that second greatsword? 50 Soul Gems the size of your hand? Where are those stored? A catapult in your pocket? What??

Like a good movie sometimes we suspend disbelief. To me, this is just nitpicking.

cyclonus11

I just want to be able to dive and swim under water.

Vangy

I think skyrim might be the game you are looking for... With mods. ESO is an mmo. There will always be 10000s of players in the world doing things that might be immersion breaking for you. Mobs respawning, players killing bosses, that v16 finishing dolmen with just caltrops etc etc. Cant be helped....

Jaeysa

Xellos77 wrote: »

I guess I just don't think about it so deeply. I find it immersing enough that I don't sweat the small stuff.

Like others mentioned, if we want to push immersion, when do we stop? Who wants to go back to the bank after picking up 10 ore? Where are we storing that second greatsword? 50 Soul Gems the size of your hand? Where are those stored? A catapult in your pocket? What??

Like a good movie sometimes we suspend disbelief. To me, this is just nitpicking.

shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=984

I have yet to find a roleplayer who can't overlook encumberance for the sake of epic lewtz.

WalkingLegacy

Xellos77 wrote: »

It's the price of playing a game, especially a MMO.

The price of playing a "traditional MMO" Amirite Matt Firor???

newtinmpls

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Well, 1 time I saw a guy with a lump in his pants.

And this one time

At Band Camp....

anyway

Dragonbreak

srfrogg23

cyclonus11 wrote: »

I just want to be able to dive and swim under water.

Hopefully someday. It'd be cool to see what kinds of stuff the ZoS devs would hide down there.

Solid_Metal

you can bring 200 ores/ingots/bark in a pocket, you can bring more than 2 sets or armor in your pocket, and also not mentioning you can also bring catapult in your pocket, and really?, you are talking about immersion?, lets just say all the NPC got the same big arse pocket like us the player

about the boss, this just an example right, so let say a company boss died, did you really expect theres no other people that will take the postition?, as i see it, its the same, boss world just a leader of that race/group/wild beast/magical beast etc, when the boss died, other will take its place

Acrolas

You need an absorptive personality and emotional sensitivity to be 'immersed' in something.

Most people who complain about not being immersed don't have the capacity to be so. They can merely be attentive for a short time, which is not the same thing.

Complaining about it won't fix it. You'll just find a way to not be immersed by something else. While the game does contribute environmental elements and cues, it really is a user issue whether you are or aren't immersed by something.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

I am not "complaining", it is just saddening to me.
These points can easily be fixed, if they wanted to.

As for ESO not being Elder Scrolls, but just the next MMO, I find this extremely wrong, myself...

Not all do, heck, probably just a few do, but still.

KaleidoscopeEyz

You want a solo game like Skyrim or Oblivion. This is not it.

Xellos77

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

I am not "complaining", it is just saddening to me.
These points can easily be fixed, if they wanted to.

As for ESO not being Elder Scrolls, but just the next MMO, I find this extremely wrong, myself...

Not all do, heck, probably just a few do, but still.

You miss the point.

Logicbomb00

for immersions sake I always think of the loot as gear that the mob is guarding. sure a mudcrab could not possibly have a set of plate in his little shell, but that same set of plate could be lying on the ground near the mudcrab. in this way my immersion stays in 'reality'.

Eyecon74

I always try to imagine that skeever wearing a pair of shoes.. But then I think: why not 2 pairs..?