Players who claim thay can Tank/Healer or DPS/Healer or Tank/DPS or wrose yet all 3

majulook · April 2016

Every time I get in a group with one of these players who claim that they can do are multi-skill line its an 99% fail.

Yesterday had in group with 2 DPS's and Tank and a player who claimed to Tank/Healer first question this person had in the dungeon was "no Healer?"
when response was "you are" he responded "I will try" result total failure. They could not heal and kept tanking....

This unfortunately seems to be a trend in the game, I am noticing more and more players claiming to have multi skill lines, who do not.
This breaks grouping as they all IMHO claim to heal so they can get in a group then the group fails.

Now this being said I have found one player who claimed to have multiple skill lines and he did.

What do you all think is a fix for this? I am thinking if ZOS should allow only one skill line to be selected for grouping tool?

Ritzey01 · April 2016

majulook wrote: »

I am thinking if ZOS should allow only one skill line to be selected?

Agree with this fix.

Serkazong · April 2016

Do you mean only one role selected for joining a group? Or do you really mean one skill line for a character?

majulook · April 2016

Role selected for joining a group

FortheloveofKrist · April 2016

I am so ashamed you did not like my performance. I embarrass my family and my county...I do not deserve to live..

TequilaFire · April 2016

My sorc does DPS/Heal just fine thank you very much.
Now this boils down to learning to play and when to heal and when to dps.
Very useful in a small group where versatility is needed.

Wollust · April 2016

Kinda funny though, you can heal almost every vet dungeon by just spamming healing springs. No idea how people can't manage to do that.

majulook wrote: »

What do you all think is a fix for this? I am thinking if ZOS should allow only one skill line to be selected?

One skill line? Have you even thought that out for more than 2 seconds?

CasNation · April 2016

I feel like a lot of people are misunderstanding that selecting multiple roles does not imply they can do those roles all at once, but rather they can do all of them, depending on gear swaps, at different times.

I always queue as both healer and DPS, because I am capable of doing either with no issue. If I get into a group as healer, I play heals. If I am selected as DPS, I DPS. My buddy recently set himself up to be able to tank, heal, and DPS, so he would select all three options, and then play the role he gets selected for.

Limiting players to only choose one option is silly. It punishes those with adaptable playstyles, while not solving the issue at hand (which is that players would queue for roles they can't do to get groups faster). Those players will still just queue as tank to get a group and then proceed to fail at it.

TheDarkShadow · April 2016

majulook wrote: »

What do you all think is a fix for this?

From a group via zone chat. Or send tell to other players in group except the guy you don't want to run with, tell them to drop group, form another group with them, queue again, this time you are the leader and you can kick who ever calm to be something but is not.

majulook · April 2016

CasNation wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are misunderstanding that selecting multiple roles does not imply they can do those roles all at once, but rather they can do all of them, depending on gear swaps, at different times.

I always queue as both healer and DPS, because I am capable of doing either with no issue. If I get into a group as healer, I play heals. If I am selected as DPS, I DPS. My buddy recently set himself up to be able to tank, heal, and DPS, so he would select all three options, and then play the role he gets selected for.

Limiting players to only choose one option is silly. It punishes those with adaptable playstyles, while not solving the issue at hand (which is that players would queue for roles they can't do to get groups faster). Those players will still just queue as tank to get a group and then proceed to fail at it.

I believe that some player can do multi roles, but those claiming in group finder to be able to do things they cannot is IMHO a problem, allow one to be selected at a time and allow changing it when ever you want.

Its the mind set of: I have 1 or 2 skills in more than 1 tree so, select all of them that I have a skill in.

Hazethemadman · April 2016

Well i don't see a tank doubling as a healer, but I still think a magicka dps can heal with a gear swap.

I heal on my magicka dk with some HoT combinations. Just have to swap my gear and skills around, considering that I have plenty of SP to have all of the skills & passives I need to do both.

That being said:
-Not everyone has mastered the dual-role setup.
-Alot of people qeue up with 2 roles just to find a group faster.

MissBizz · April 2016

CasNation wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are misunderstanding that selecting multiple roles does not imply they can do those roles all at once, but rather they can do all of them, depending on gear swaps, at different times.

I always queue as both healer and DPS, because I am capable of doing either with no issue. If I get into a group as healer, I play heals. If I am selected as DPS, I DPS. My buddy recently set himself up to be able to tank, heal, and DPS, so he would select all three options, and then play the role he gets selected for.

Limiting players to only choose one option is silly. It punishes those with adaptable playstyles, while not solving the issue at hand (which is that players would queue for roles they can't do to get groups faster). Those players will still just queue as tank to get a group and then proceed to fail at it.

^ This. I don't do this, but I play with someone who does. He actually keeps his other gear with him to swap quickly and COMMITS to the role the group finder chose him for.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

There are so many discussions around this....

One thing I see tho is (expectations) which are often based on this other MMO or the trinity.
I was like this until I stopped and read ZOS guides and articles...not player guides but what the company has on this site and you know what.....I found that my expectations were out of line with the intent of the game.

Just sharing that....feel free to read my comments in detail in the other threads just below.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/259848/dungeon-finder-dps-finder#latest

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/259929/group-finder-job-roles#latest

Wing · April 2016

meh, I suppose we could base an entire statement on a singular instance to confirm it as fact but that seems kind of silly to me.

I regularly perform dual roles for my group (were a dedicated 3 man group that always play with each other) and do so pretty well, sometimes going all three depending on character (Magicka Templar can fairly easily perform all 3 actually)

can a multi role build be as effective in any given role as a dedicated build? no I don't think so. but that does not mean they cannot perform it.

you got a person that could not multi role, that's fine, does not mean its not possible though. ^_^

Asmael · April 2016

majulook wrote: »

CasNation wrote: »

I feel like a lot of people are misunderstanding that selecting multiple roles does not imply they can do those roles all at once, but rather they can do all of them, depending on gear swaps, at different times.

I always queue as both healer and DPS, because I am capable of doing either with no issue. If I get into a group as healer, I play heals. If I am selected as DPS, I DPS. My buddy recently set himself up to be able to tank, heal, and DPS, so he would select all three options, and then play the role he gets selected for.

Limiting players to only choose one option is silly. It punishes those with adaptable playstyles, while not solving the issue at hand (which is that players would queue for roles they can't do to get groups faster). Those players will still just queue as tank to get a group and then proceed to fail at it.

I believe that some player can do multi roles, but those claiming in group finder to be able to do things they cannot is IMHO a problem, allow one to be selected at a time and allow changing it when ever you want.

Well, you just pointed out that the problem is with the players themselves, claiming to be something that they aren't, so why prevent those who can do multiple roles from doing it?

I queue as both DD and healer, then swap abilities accordingly once the group is formed.
I don't want to queue only as a healer, since I prefer to be a DD.
I don't want to queue only as DD, since, most likely, I'll have to wait at least one hour to join a group.

CherryCake · April 2016

Well my templar has both, one weapon only damage, and the weapon swap just healing.
When I play alone I go with the first one, when I am in a group I act as a healer only and it works. I tried to do damage and heal in groups but since I suck at gaming, I cant do it, however there might be so people that can, for example I was in Craglorn with a friend, he was a templar using heavy armor, making most of the damage and partial healing, he didnt die once.

myrrrorb14_ESO · April 2016

Group with friends ideally and problem solved. Group with guildies and mentor them till they get better. I don't see another option.

Multi role queue is fine if you can do it. 2 is pretty easy. 3 is tougher but still very possible.

Miszou · April 2016

What about not allowing players to select multiple roles, until they've successfully completed a certain number of dungeons as that role? Kind of like how you can't use multiple weapon slots until you reach level 15.

So, you can still pick any role you like, but you can't pick multiples (say dps+heals) until you've completed 10 dungeons as dps and another 10 dungeons as healer. Once you've done that, you can queue as both.

Even if I complete 50 dungeons as a tank, I still can't queue up for multiple roles, because I haven't completed any dungeons as another role. And queuing as a healer would pretty much get me kicked after the first trash pull, so the problem would sort of resolve itself....

This way, when you see a person with 2 (or even 3) roles in the group, you know that they've at least managed to complete 10 or more dungeons in a given role, so they probably won't suck too hard....

It's probably not foolproof, and I'm sure people will find some way to game the system and introduce even more problems, but maybe something to think about...?

Naff · April 2016

Man, I agree with the original post. When I do a random and end up with a tank or healer that has all roles selected, I know we're likely in for a rough ride.

Let me point out, that I believe that you CAN do multiple rolls, via skill /gear swap, (I do it myself when I off heal/tank or whatever), but there are CP's that dramatically increase the effectiveness of certain roles. CP's spent for DPS?? You're not gonna heal as good as someone geared and skilled the same way, but CP's spent for healing.

Not sure that's what these people think anyhow. I think many of them slot all the roles because maybe it gets them in the dungeons faster??? All I know is, when I see one of these guys, it's like, "ahhhh crap...here we go again"

Magdalina · April 2016

As been said the problem there isn't that it's impossible for players to perform several roles (sometimes even in the very same gear, just by swapping a few skills), it's that players choose roles they cannot do. Why they do this? Mostly because it takes forever to get a group as a pure dps. Why does it take forever to take a group as a dps? Because no one wants to bother healing, let alone, tanking, anymore, when all you really need isn 4 competent dps to burn everything before it has a chance to do its mechanics. Now why the perfect group setup is 4 dps...ah, that's another story and a very frustrating one.

But in the end of that story, there's little to zero incentive for a good player to be pure tank or healer since he'll benefit any (competent) group a lot more by simply being a dps in 95% cases.

That aside, as been said, it is very possible for a player to perform several roles, sometimes even without swapping gear(like it's really easy for any class healer to do some dps along or even instead of the healing - they might not be specced for highest damage in the end but if they're specced for decent heals they'll pull out fairly decent dps as well if they know how to do it). The deeper underlying problem here is unfortunately that we simply don't need healers/tanks in most of the game. You can be best tank ever and love your role but then one day you'll realize your group does just fine without you - and best you can do for it is just add to the damage.

Waffennacht · April 2016

If you slot just a dps role, you are looking at a minimum 45 minute wait before you get in a dungeon. If you slot just dps and want a specific dungeon, you may end up never getting in.

Most slot multiple roles just so they can play.

Something needs to be done about the group finder. I swear they said they made it better but I still go whole days without doing a dungeon because no group was found.

Naff · April 2016

Magdalina wrote: »

The deeper underlying problem here is unfortunately that we simply don't need healers/tanks in most of the game.

I agree here. I think it's because all the old vet dungeons are scaling to v16, but not to CP's. I imaging a full group of v16's with NO CP's would have to deal with the mechanics in all the original vet dungeons. Full DPS group, maxed CP's, none of the bosses even make it to their first mechanic. Makes me wonder how things are gonna scale when vet levels are gone.

Lynx7386 · April 2016

I primarily dps on my nightblade with 2h. Doesn't mean I can't swap on a shield and tank if needed - all the shield boosts are in the same warrior constellation as the medium armor boosts. Probably not as good as a heavy armor tank, but it still works out.

DocFrost72 · April 2016

Just echoing what has already been said at this point, but my toon who can legitimately tank and DPS depending on gear (15k single target, I know not overwhelming. Has armor cap with 27k health for tanking) should not be punished for others' incompetence. Plus, the "select only one role" concept will do nothing to those that cheat the system.

Label as tank, find group, ask if there's a tank. Genius!

TheDarkShadow · April 2016

Naff wrote: »

Man, I agree with the original post. When I do a random and end up with a tank or healer that has all roles selected, I know we're likely in for a rough ride.

Let me point out, that I believe that you CAN do multiple rolls, via skill /gear swap, (I do it myself when I off heal/tank or whatever), but there are CP's that dramatically increase the effectiveness of certain roles. CP's spent for DPS?? You're not gonna heal as good as someone geared and skilled the same way, but CP's spent for healing.

Not sure that's what these people think anyhow. I think many of them slot all the roles because maybe it gets them in the dungeons faster??? All I know is, when I see one of these guys, it's like, "ahhhh crap...here we go again"

Most dungeons don't require you to be 100% effective as your role to finish. Yes a CP cap dps with BiS gear and perfect rotation can do 25k dps, and be more effective than a new v16 with under 100 CPs and purple gear, but you do not need that much. Just 10k is enough to carry your own weight in most vet dungeons.

Supersomething · April 2016

The queue system should only allow you to select your primary role plain and simple. Yes, most of us are aware that later on you can play two or maybe even three roles simultaneously. However, lets be honest for a second. Most of the random pug players you are going to find through the Dungeon Finder are not going to be capable of doing that.

If you can play multiple roles then that is just wonderful. Be sure to inform your group as such when the dungeon begins. The process of limiting a person to one role on the dungeon finder has the potential of alleviating a lot of issues like the OP's because it has the added effect of making the person realize, what role do I actually fulfill. Most if not all MMO's with a dungeon finder have this established by default and why Zenimax did not do this in the first place I haven't the foggiest.

Will this eliminate terrible players entirely? No and no system ever will, but it will certainly diminish the chances of having a fiasco where no one actually tanks, heals or dpses effectively.

VoiDGhOs7 · April 2016

Not every1 who Tank/Heal Tank/Dps is bad I know lot of players who are very good at it.On the other hand the major part of players aren't able to manage 2 roles at the same time.
One more thing I've done vWGT and other veteran dungeons with Tank/Heal and 3 Dps lot of times and I hadn't any problems but those were trusted players

.

Also I don't use group finder because it sucks (sry I'm stuck in 1.X version of ESO

)

tinythinker · April 2016

I know people who can legitimately dual role in hard group content, but, you won't find them through the grouping tool.

Lenikus · April 2016

I keep saying this, we need to stop being polite with people that pick double roles without being able to.
They need to learn that stuff like that is okay on non-vet, because let's admit it, non-vet is kid-mode, but if they try to pull that fluff out in vet dungeons they're just gonna get insulted and lose each time more self-esteem.

It'll work, and we'll have fun in teh process ~

Brrrofski · April 2016

Dps and heal is very doable.

In-group finder where people stand in stupid places and run around like headless chickens, might be a bit more challenging.

CasNation · April 2016

Again, selecting two or more roles in the group finder does not imply that person intends to do all of them AT THE SAME TIME. When I queue as heals and dps, I am not claiming to be filling BOTH roles in the dungeon, I am claiming to be filling ONE of those roles in the dungeon depending on group composition.

Limiting players to a single selection fixes nothing. Play who want to game the system by selecting "tank" without being to do so will STILL do that.

The problem here is with the player, not the tool.

Whether the wait for DPS players is too long (it is) is a separate issue that needs to be addressed in other ways.