My PvP Guild has thrown in the towel (Not a rage post, more a lament and a plea to ZOS)

newtinmpls · April 2016

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

To add to this, most organized guild are tired of training new players (my guild has been on training mode with new players since B2P and simply cannot handle it anymore).

^^^This is why I pretty much don't play PvP. Other than one exception, which I'll talk about below.

My default is PvE, mostly because I came to the game at all to play with my best friend/spouse. I am a casual in that I make choices much more because of RP than tactics, I've never MMO'ed (or MMORPG'ed) before, so none of the "normal" default mechanics (like.... don't stand in stupid, move while in combat) were totally new (and not intuitive) to me.

After about a year and a half I started to find that when I was playing lowbies I wasn't bothering to improve my armor past white. Weird. That used to be absolutely necessary for survival. You could say "well everything is nerfed" but that wasn't the difference. It was that I'd slowly (glacially) integrated some of the basics.

PvP is a very different animal.

No AI can come close to the devastation wrought on me by even a moderately experienced PvPer. In Cyrodiil that meant trying to finish a quest/get a skyshard and then BAM back to square one. So I tend to wait till the map is "my color" and sneak around.

Then came IC. Fast Respawns. Death is less (slightly less) a devastating consequence, and more an annoyance. So now some days I willingly jump into the ongoing PvP-fest that is PC NA Haderus arboretum. No one is training me there, but that's where I learned to identify (and at least try to avoid) the red circle of death that is Proxy Det. Where I learned to attempt coordination with other players of "my color" before using an ultimate. Where I learned to be generous with using buffs that will effect nearby peeps of "my color".

I recently noted a hilarious comment by fengrush to the effect that everyone should have no problem with veteran Maelstrom because he told them how to do it.

Training - real training - real learning - doesn't "end".

An army never stops training it's soldiers.

If your PvP guild stops training, which is to say welcoming newbies, then yes, you will die off. So will PvP.

Any time the meta changes - training.

Any time a new strategy gets created - training - and sometimes this is HOW a new strategy gets created. Gestalt.

I'm sad this game is not fun enough for you to enjoy the process of sharing it.

Meilinka · April 2016

When I see people in zone asking for help, or questions (new players to the game or PVP) I always try to help. I send them siege, and mail them a tutorial on how to use it, and spend time answering questions.

I also offer to group and show them around, how things work, practice placing siege, good spots for defending etc, courtesy (Not standing on top of people that are sneaking, not stealing siege...)

I'm not sure any guilds are actively recruiting/training at the moment on AD, since my timezone is so different now, so I'll just keep trying to help out when I can.

I have been playing with some of the people in Vic from back when a lot of us were in Moonlight. Sad to see so many go.

newtinmpls · April 2016

RedShirtRob wrote: »

But PvP is such a mess (IMHO) that it's just no fun right now, and that's my favorite part of the game by far. The lag, the frame-rates, dying from attacks I never saw or had a chance to counter --

It occurs to me to ask what you do enjoy about PvP.

The 'dying from attacks I never saw' for me is not just a function of lag/frame rate, as it is (also) a function of not knowing what to "see" (I'm not sure how to put it - maybe you will know what I mean).

I'd like to understand more about what you enjoy.

Too often all I see in discussions about "how to PvP" are folks belittling others and saying "Get GUD" and crowing because the crower gets killed less than the crow-ee (yeah that's a word, I just made it up). Gives PvP (from my perspective) an unappetizing rep.

Anyway... I'm curious

DHale · April 2016

RedShirtRob wrote: »

*** THIS IS NOT A FAREWELL THREAD, SO PLEASE DON'T SHUT IT DOWN ON THAT BASIS. ***

I won't rage against ZOS. I don't doubt that the company is staffed by hard-working, well-intentioned people, and I find the snarky, insulting threads upsetting and counter-productive (e.g., "way to go, ZOS, blah blah blah"). But PvP is such a mess (IMHO) that it's just no fun right now, and that's my favorite part of the game by far. The lag, the frame-rates, dying from attacks I never saw or had a chance to counter -- and we're still fighting over the same objectives we've been trading for the last two years! Sometimes I wonder if ZOS has made a business decision not to invest significantly in PvP because the issues are so daunting and potentially expensive to fix that it just doesn't make sense to keep pouring resources into it. And I would respect that decision, were it made public.

I'm not unsubbing at this point, and no, you can't have my stuff (!), but I am hoping that this post somehow rises above the umpteen on the topic and draws a meaningful response from ZOS. Maybe a statement of commitment, or an admission that there is none, or something in between. It's been almost a year since the "PVP Update, June 2015" thread. Please, ZOS, give us a reason to be optimistic!

/preamble

I've been running with many of these folks since the beginning: Moonlight Crew --> Misfitz --> Victorem. Much fun. The "funny" thing is that I had independently decided to take a break, as well, and logged in mostly to send an e-mail to the guild leader, but I first checked the guild's Message of the Day:

Many of us (Slaxis and Crown included) are taking a break from ESO. The lag, the bugs, the faction politics, and the complete incompetence on the part of ZOS in releasing this latest patch have disillusioned us to the game more so than previously (which was pretty significant already).

We definitely want to continue gaming as a community, though we're not certain of the timing (or even if we will be) coming back to ESO on a regular basis. We will definitely log on and play a bit, but organized PvP will probably happen a lot less for the next while.

We will be putting up a community / guild site soon to ensure that we can all keep playing together be it in ESO, Paragon, Caemlot Unchained, or other games. We're still in TS no matter what we play, so if you want to learn about other games or just chat, hop into whatever channel with us!

This was a pretty dedicated group, and I think it speaks volumes about the state of PvP that the members are transitioning away.

Rob it was faction politics after Misfitz was disbanded then I went to hello kitty. Then after that folded went to unity and Fantasia. We still kick it hard 3 to 4 days a week mostly on Haderus. Lots of Misfitz and moonlight crew are here. I had no interest in keeping with the drama but did like Airyus a lot and thought he would become a great leader.

Anazasi · April 2016

Sallington wrote: »

People calling this a case of being burnt out is laughable. These aren't people who have been doing some mindless dungeon grinding for 2 years and need a break. These are people who are fed up with the lack of focus on the most neglected (by FAR) aspect of the game, which just so happens to have been the biggest selling point at launch.

I can attest that its burn out. Leading groups regardless of condition of the game is very taxing. Any group leader who spends 3 to 4 hours running a group of 12+ playing the map is mentally and surprisingly physically drained. This is probably one of the main reasons group leaders do not take pugs. The amount of adrenalin that runs through a group in contested and dynamic fight is like a virtual street brawl. Good leaders manage, teach, strategize, and feel the rise and fall of timing in a fight. Why do you think the strongest leaders are the most charismatic and demanding? They are trying to manage so many variables at any given moment of a fight that it can be debilitating as much as addictive. My advice to those out there who play, when you find a leader that knows how to lead and produce positive results support them and don't be that "Guy" who always comes late to the party.

Anazasi · April 2016

newtinmpls wrote: »

RedShirtRob wrote: »

But PvP is such a mess (IMHO) that it's just no fun right now, and that's my favorite part of the game by far. The lag, the frame-rates, dying from attacks I never saw or had a chance to counter --

It occurs to me to ask what you do enjoy about PvP.

The 'dying from attacks I never saw' for me is not just a function of lag/frame rate, as it is (also) a function of not knowing what to "see" (I'm not sure how to put it - maybe you will know what I mean).

I'd like to understand more about what you enjoy.

Too often all I see in discussions about "how to PvP" are folks belittling others and saying "Get GUD" and crowing because the crower gets killed less than the crow-ee (yeah that's a word, I just made it up). Gives PvP (from my perspective) an unappetizing rep.

Anyway... I'm curious

knocking players off a wall and getting the message killed x....

Makkir · April 2016

Chuck Norris dine and dived a few weeks ago..

Makkir · April 2016

EsoRecon wrote: »

it only takes 1 change to fix pvp... Arenas

Yeah and then all the crying about classes not being balanced for 1v1.a

Derra · April 2016

Anazasi wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

People calling this a case of being burnt out is laughable. These aren't people who have been doing some mindless dungeon grinding for 2 years and need a break. These are people who are fed up with the lack of focus on the most neglected (by FAR) aspect of the game, which just so happens to have been the biggest selling point at launch.

I can attest that its burn out. Leading groups regardless of condition of the game is very taxing. Any group leader who spends 3 to 4 hours running a group of 12+ playing the map is mentally and surprisingly physically drained. This is probably one of the main reasons group leaders do not take pugs. The amount of adrenalin that runs through a group in contested and dynamic fight is like a virtual street brawl. Good leaders manage, teach, strategize, and feel the rise and fall of timing in a fight. Why do you think the strongest leaders are the most charismatic and demanding? They are trying to manage so many variables at any given moment of a fight that it can be debilitating as much as addictive. My advice to those out there who play, when you find a leader that knows how to lead and produce positive results support them and don't be that "Guy" who always comes late to the party.

I can very much attest it´s not burn out. Most of us would love to play if the game wasn´t lagging.

newtinmpls · April 2016

Anazasi wrote: »

My advice to those out there who play, when you find a leader that knows how to lead and produce positive results support them and don't be that "Guy" who always comes late to the party.

None of my horses are maxed. My computer is slow. Even among no-stress friends in PvE I am "late to the party". In Cyrodiil it's much much worse.

Minno · April 2016

Derra wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

People calling this a case of being burnt out is laughable. These aren't people who have been doing some mindless dungeon grinding for 2 years and need a break. These are people who are fed up with the lack of focus on the most neglected (by FAR) aspect of the game, which just so happens to have been the biggest selling point at launch.

I can attest that its burn out. Leading groups regardless of condition of the game is very taxing. Any group leader who spends 3 to 4 hours running a group of 12+ playing the map is mentally and surprisingly physically drained. This is probably one of the main reasons group leaders do not take pugs. The amount of adrenalin that runs through a group in contested and dynamic fight is like a virtual street brawl. Good leaders manage, teach, strategize, and feel the rise and fall of timing in a fight. Why do you think the strongest leaders are the most charismatic and demanding? They are trying to manage so many variables at any given moment of a fight that it can be debilitating as much as addictive. My advice to those out there who play, when you find a leader that knows how to lead and produce positive results support them and don't be that "Guy" who always comes late to the party.

I can very much attest it´s not burn out. Most of us would love to play if the game wasn´t lagging.

I'd play again if lag was removed as an issue.

PhatGrimReaper · April 2016

AD Will Rise Again!!!!!

#SOON

Nutshotz · April 2016

With all the issues that have plagued us (pvpers) from beta/launch are the reason why a lot of the original players have thrown in the towel. I myself have taken a break and not sure if I'll be back, but bet your ass I'll be in CU. as for now, I'm enjoying tctd (the division)

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

I'll be in CU. as for now, I'm enjoying tctd (the division)

You should contribute to their forums, then.

Morozov · April 2016

Vangy wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

MoeCoastie wrote: »

guilds will leave, guilds will come. Different names, same roles. Hey, you played a game for 2+ years. That has to hold some value. Sad to see you go. Glad to see new guilds popping up every day. Rolled with a crew today...all new people to pvp. All having a blast on TS. That was you 2 years ago! Maybe one day they can look back and say that this type of AvA was the best pvp experience they have ever experienced too!

Ahhh...the Ebb and Flows of RvR. How funny history repeats itself

Next man up!

Except it goes deeper than just and ebb and flow cycle. We are losing experienced players on all sides, EP is no better off. We have gone from having 3-4 strong solid raid level guilds in all three factions to a barest handful.

Just because you see a lot of bodies doesnt mean they are accomplishing anything. Hell the AD blob on trueflame mostly just charges to sej and gets farmed by whoever is in there, hours upon hours at a time.

The movers and shakers are dying out, and whats left are the mindless zergs with no direction, because leaders and experienced players are quitting left and right. I have watched four EP guilds completely disintegrate in the last 3 months, many of their players nowhere to be seen, moving to other games, giving up entirely. The handful that remain behind are mostly in the trueflame emp group or scattered through other various small guilds that really dont play much at all.

Even Darkest Requiem, one of the newer upstarts I helped form, is lacking experienced players, and we formed out of the collapse of three different guilds. Its really sad that a guild with this thin of an experience pool (we only have about 10-12 truly experienced/proven members, a handful of those date back to dawnbreaker, the rest are very green, mostly started within the last year) is one of the biggest movers and shakers in EP on Had, Azuras, and when we go to True we often accomplish a lot as well. Its telling that there just isnt anyone else out there doing things.

AD seems to be even worse off, I dont even recognize any guilds besides Telels out there, the rest are just mishmashes of whats left from the AD exodus last May.

Hear Hear.

Most exp AD PvP'ers gone too. Lost 2 of my PvP guilds due to inactivity for the AD side. Now getting tired of calling out for AD pugs to stop bum rushing sej. It dosent work. Sej to AD is like skooma to khajiit. EP & DC could be banging on Ayrenns door but if the path to sej is clear, you know AD going to rush it. Lately ive been finding myself weirdly rushing to sej too. Eventually I too will become one with the zerg X.X

https://youtube.com/watch?v=9C4uTEEOJlM

Morozov · April 2016

As a member of the OP's guild who has been there since Moonlight times, through Misfitz and on to Victorem...I'll say that a large majority of the guild has put up with ESO PVP much longer than I would have thought. Yes, people come and people go, but its sad to see folks who were so adamant about ESO PVP leave in frustration. The possibility ESO PVP had was there...just never realized fully.

There will be other new players who may take the reigns and create guilds that can stand up and rival other factions, work well as a unit, and be talked about by other PVPer's in TS saying, "Lets leave here cause "X" guild is here now and there's no stopping them" . If the ones who are here now and the ones who have already left all left due to the same reasons...then what is there to really look forward to? Will there be some magic change to ESO PVP that will make everything ok? I don't think so, Its a cycle for sure, but a sad cycle of people being excited then over time being let down. Its like finding out you got an awesome birthday cake, then taking that first bite and as you taste the slice come to realize it was made with whip cream frosting. NO ONE WANTS THAT S#^t!!!

New players will feel that same excitement, then gradually over time become frustrated with the same problems we all left over.

I feel sad for a game I had hopes for.

Also, to add...I do have stuff.....if you want it, you will need to find me in game the next time I log in. I will be in two places only, Rawl bank, or the east gate in TF -AD side. If you are the first person to whisper me, you get the things

-M

Minno · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

I'll be in CU. as for now, I'm enjoying tctd (the division)

You should contribute to their forums, then.

Don't need to, Massive adjusted the game balance according to their design intent and various media critism from multiple sources.

1 month from massive equates to 3 months ESO developer time. Why muddle the forum waters to expedite a system already on fast-track?

ESO still holds potential for the pvp action people want, so I see no reason to shut us "quiters" out so soon. Especially players that have 2 years experience and know the game from when it worked to its broken state.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

Minno wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

I'll be in CU. as for now, I'm enjoying tctd (the division)

You should contribute to their forums, then.

Don't need to, Massive adjusted the game balance according to their design intent and various media critism from multiple sources.

1 month from massive equates to 3 months ESO developer time. Why muddle the forum waters to expedite a system already on fast-track?

ESO still holds potential for the pvp action people want, so I see no reason to shut us "quiters" out so soon. Especially players that have 2 years experience and know the game from when it worked to its broken state.

Did you just admit to participate in a game's forum only for bashing it, with the purpose to "make it become better quicker" ??

And, you should use "/reloadmemory" every now and then. Two years ago, you were bashing just the same. Just not exactly about the same things. You sound like my grandfather who always told how everything was paradise before "now".

RadioheadSh0t · April 2016

'.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

I'll be in CU. as for now, I'm enjoying tctd (the division)

You should contribute to their forums, then.

Don't need to, Massive adjusted the game balance according to their design intent and various media critism from multiple sources.

1 month from massive equates to 3 months ESO developer time. Why muddle the forum waters to expedite a system already on fast-track?

ESO still holds potential for the pvp action people want, so I see no reason to shut us "quiters" out so soon. Especially players that have 2 years experience and know the game from when it worked to its broken state.

Did you just admit to participate in a game's forum only for bashing it, with the purpose to "make it become better quicker" ??

And, you should use "/reloadmemory" every now and then. Two years ago, you were bashing just the same. Just not exactly about the same things. You sound like my grandfather who always told how everything was paradise before "now".

Did you just misrepresent what someone said to "distort their point" ??

He said "ESO still holds potential for the pvp action people want" so obviously he has every right to post on the forums in hopes that they'll fix or improve the one thing they like about this game, for once.

Sallington · April 2016

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

'.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

I'll be in CU. as for now, I'm enjoying tctd (the division)

You should contribute to their forums, then.

Don't need to, Massive adjusted the game balance according to their design intent and various media critism from multiple sources.

1 month from massive equates to 3 months ESO developer time. Why muddle the forum waters to expedite a system already on fast-track?

ESO still holds potential for the pvp action people want, so I see no reason to shut us "quiters" out so soon. Especially players that have 2 years experience and know the game from when it worked to its broken state.

Did you just admit to participate in a game's forum only for bashing it, with the purpose to "make it become better quicker" ??

And, you should use "/reloadmemory" every now and then. Two years ago, you were bashing just the same. Just not exactly about the same things. You sound like my grandfather who always told how everything was paradise before "now".

Did you just misrepresent what someone said to "distort their point" ??

He said "ESO still holds potential for the pvp action people want" so obviously he has every right to post on the forums in hopes that they'll fix or improve the one thing they like about this game, for once.

I think 90% of the posters on the PvP forum fall into that category.

Minno · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

I'll be in CU. as for now, I'm enjoying tctd (the division)

You should contribute to their forums, then.

Don't need to, Massive adjusted the game balance according to their design intent and various media critism from multiple sources.

1 month from massive equates to 3 months ESO developer time. Why muddle the forum waters to expedite a system already on fast-track?

ESO still holds potential for the pvp action people want, so I see no reason to shut us "quiters" out so soon. Especially players that have 2 years experience and know the game from when it worked to its broken state.

Did you just admit to participate in a game's forum only for bashing it, with the purpose to "make it become better quicker" ??

And, you should use "/reloadmemory" every now and then. Two years ago, you were bashing just the same. Just not exactly about the same things. You sound like my grandfather who always told how everything was paradise before "now".

Ethical I can see why you'd challenge, but no I didn't. I was defending peanut for being in two places at once; my current situation as well. And a direct comparison between update release tactics to show that even complex games vary pending dev skills, office structure, and knowledge of design.

Most of my posts try to give viable changes I feel would help the game (the sole purpose of joining a forum). If I veered off, I tried to revise my future posts to reflect that. Or I'll play devil's advocate to help promote critical thinking. My 1yr forum history will show this (yes I've only been on the forums for a year. Previously I was too busy enjoying the game when it worked to " forum pvp")

Balance issues aside, lag just needs to be fixed to pre-light patch levels. Game is broken for pvp and some of us want it addressed for us to come back full time. Many of us put our money where our mouths are but still hold a special heart for the pvp ESO gave.

Minno · April 2016

Sallington wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

'.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

I'll be in CU. as for now, I'm enjoying tctd (the division)

You should contribute to their forums, then.

Don't need to, Massive adjusted the game balance according to their design intent and various media critism from multiple sources.

1 month from massive equates to 3 months ESO developer time. Why muddle the forum waters to expedite a system already on fast-track?

ESO still holds potential for the pvp action people want, so I see no reason to shut us "quiters" out so soon. Especially players that have 2 years experience and know the game from when it worked to its broken state.

Did you just admit to participate in a game's forum only for bashing it, with the purpose to "make it become better quicker" ??

And, you should use "/reloadmemory" every now and then. Two years ago, you were bashing just the same. Just not exactly about the same things. You sound like my grandfather who always told how everything was paradise before "now".

Did you just misrepresent what someone said to "distort their point" ??

He said "ESO still holds potential for the pvp action people want" so obviously he has every right to post on the forums in hopes that they'll fix or improve the one thing they like about this game, for once.

I think 90% of the posters on the PvP forum fall into that category.

Correct.

I've bought and played a few games shy of turning full Korean MMO grinder in my post ESO Diaspora. TBH, I've yet to find a game that lets you design a player, fight with others in open world, and have a unique storyline attached the way that ESO did/does.

booksmcread · April 2016

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

AD Will Rise Again!!!!!

#SOON

No ETA.

zZzleepyhead · April 2016

MoeCoastie wrote: »

guilds will leave, guilds will come. Different names, same roles. Hey, you played a game for 2+ years. That has to hold some value. Sad to see you go. Glad to see new guilds popping up every day. Rolled with a crew today...all new people to pvp. All having a blast on TS. That was you 2 years ago! Maybe one day they can look back and say that this type of AvA was the best pvp experience they have ever experienced too!

Ahhh...the Ebb and Flows of RvR. How funny history repeats itself

Next man up!

that's dangerously optimistic