My PvP Guild has thrown in the towel (Not a rage post, more a lament and a plea to ZOS)

RedShirtRob

*** THIS IS NOT A FAREWELL THREAD, SO PLEASE DON'T SHUT IT DOWN ON THAT BASIS. ***

I won't rage against ZOS. I don't doubt that the company is staffed by hard-working, well-intentioned people, and I find the snarky, insulting threads upsetting and counter-productive (e.g., "way to go, ZOS, blah blah blah"). But PvP is such a mess (IMHO) that it's just no fun right now, and that's my favorite part of the game by far. The lag, the frame-rates, dying from attacks I never saw or had a chance to counter -- and we're still fighting over the same objectives we've been trading for the last two years! Sometimes I wonder if ZOS has made a business decision not to invest significantly in PvP because the issues are so daunting and potentially expensive to fix that it just doesn't make sense to keep pouring resources into it. And I would respect that decision, were it made public.

I'm not unsubbing at this point, and no, you can't have my stuff (!), but I am hoping that this post somehow rises above the umpteen on the topic and draws a meaningful response from ZOS. Maybe a statement of commitment, or an admission that there is none, or something in between. It's been almost a year since the "PVP Update, June 2015" thread. Please, ZOS, give us a reason to be optimistic!

/preamble

I've been running with many of these folks since the beginning: Moonlight Crew --> Misfitz --> Victorem. Much fun. The "funny" thing is that I had independently decided to take a break, as well, and logged in mostly to send an e-mail to the guild leader, but I first checked the guild's Message of the Day:

Many of us (Slaxis and Crown included) are taking a break from ESO. The lag, the bugs, the faction politics, and the complete incompetence on the part of ZOS in releasing this latest patch have disillusioned us to the game more so than previously (which was pretty significant already).

We definitely want to continue gaming as a community, though we're not certain of the timing (or even if we will be) coming back to ESO on a regular basis. We will definitely log on and play a bit, but organized PvP will probably happen a lot less for the next while.

We will be putting up a community / guild site soon to ensure that we can all keep playing together be it in ESO, Paragon, Caemlot Unchained, or other games. We're still in TS no matter what we play, so if you want to learn about other games or just chat, hop into whatever channel with us!

This was a pretty dedicated group, and I think it speaks volumes about the state of PvP that the members are transitioning away.

Lexxypwns

RedShirtRob wrote: »

*** THIS IS NOT A FAREWELL THREAD, SO PLEASE DON'T SHUT IT DOWN ON THAT BASIS. ***

I won't rage against ZOS. I don't doubt that the company is staffed by hard-working, well-intentioned people, and I find the snarky, insulting threads upsetting and counter-productive (e.g., "way to go, ZOS, blah blah blah"). But PvP is such a mess (IMHO) that it's just no fun right now, and that's my favorite part of the game by far. The lag, the frame-rates, dying from attacks I never saw or had a chance to counter -- and we're still fighting over the same objectives we've been trading for the last two years! Sometimes I wonder if ZOS has made a business decision not to invest significantly in PvP because the issues are so daunting and potentially expensive to fix that it just doesn't make sense to keep pouring resources into it. And I would respect that decision, were it made public.

I'm not unsubbing at this point, and no, you can't have my stuff (!), but I am hoping that this post somehow rises above the umpteen on the topic and draws a meaningful response from ZOS. Maybe a statement of commitment, or an admission that there is none, or something in between. It's been almost a year since the "PVP Update, June 2015" thread. Please, ZOS, give us a reason to be optimistic!

/preamble

I've been running with many of these folks since the beginning: Moonlightwipe Crew --> Misfitz --> Victorem. Much fun. The "funny" thing is that I had independently decided to take a break, as well, and logged in mostly to send an e-mail to the guild leader, but I first checked the guild's Message of the Day:

Many of us (Slaxis and Crown included) are taking a break from ESO. The lag, the bugs, the faction politics, and the complete incompetence on the part of ZOS in releasing this latest patch have disillusioned us to the game more so than previously (which was pretty significant already).

We definitely want to continue gaming as a community, though we're not certain of the timing (or even if we will be) coming back to ESO on a regular basis. We will definitely log on and play a bit, but organized PvP will probably happen a lot less for the next while.

We will be putting up a community / guild site soon to ensure that we can all keep playing together be it in ESO, Paragon, Caemlot Unchained, or other games. We're still in TS no matter what we play, so if you want to learn about other games or just chat, hop into whatever channel with us!

This was a pretty dedicated group, and I think it speaks volumes about the state of PvP that the members are transitioning away.

fixed that for you

OtarTheMad

It does speak volumes to the state of PvP right now. I have even contemplated turning into a PvE player and trying to go down that route in order to keep playing the game... since PvP just isn't working right now.

I still have some faith in ZoS that they will see that making some more diversity in the game, build-set-gear-spell wise, will only make the game better. But my PvP guild is also plagued with some players taking a break.

Ghostbane

Lexxypwns wrote: »

RedShirtRob wrote: »

*** THIS IS NOT A FAREWELL THREAD, SO PLEASE DON'T SHUT IT DOWN ON THAT BASIS. ***

I won't rage against ZOS. I don't doubt that the company is staffed by hard-working, well-intentioned people, and I find the snarky, insulting threads upsetting and counter-productive (e.g., "way to go, ZOS, blah blah blah"). But PvP is such a mess (IMHO) that it's just no fun right now, and that's my favorite part of the game by far. The lag, the frame-rates, dying from attacks I never saw or had a chance to counter -- and we're still fighting over the same objectives we've been trading for the last two years! Sometimes I wonder if ZOS has made a business decision not to invest significantly in PvP because the issues are so daunting and potentially expensive to fix that it just doesn't make sense to keep pouring resources into it. And I would respect that decision, were it made public.

I'm not unsubbing at this point, and no, you can't have my stuff (!), but I am hoping that this post somehow rises above the umpteen on the topic and draws a meaningful response from ZOS. Maybe a statement of commitment, or an admission that there is none, or something in between. It's been almost a year since the "PVP Update, June 2015" thread. Please, ZOS, give us a reason to be optimistic!

/preamble

I've been running with many of these folks since the beginning: Moonlightwipe Crew --> Misfitz --> Victorem. Much fun. The "funny" thing is that I had independently decided to take a break, as well, and logged in mostly to send an e-mail to the guild leader, but I first checked the guild's Message of the Day:

Many of us (Slaxis and Crown included) are taking a break from ESO. The lag, the bugs, the faction politics, and the complete incompetence on the part of ZOS in releasing this latest patch have disillusioned us to the game more so than previously (which was pretty significant already).

We definitely want to continue gaming as a community, though we're not certain of the timing (or even if we will be) coming back to ESO on a regular basis. We will definitely log on and play a bit, but organized PvP will probably happen a lot less for the next while.

We will be putting up a community / guild site soon to ensure that we can all keep playing together be it in ESO, Paragon, Caemlot Unchained, or other games. We're still in TS no matter what we play, so if you want to learn about other games or just chat, hop into whatever channel with us!

This was a pretty dedicated group, and I think it speaks volumes about the state of PvP that the members are transitioning away.

fixed that for you

Best guild NA senor Salty.

Lexxypwns

OtarTheMad wrote: »

It does speak volumes to the state of PvP right now. I have even contemplated turning into a PvE player and trying to go down that route in order to keep playing the game... since PvP just isn't working right now.

I still have some faith in ZoS that they will see that making some more diversity in the game, build-set-gear-spell wise, will only make the game better. But my PvP guild is also plagued with some players taking a break.

Broken game is broken, we're all just waiting on something better to come out. I just wish CU would hit consoles

anitajoneb17_ESO

Just because people are moving on (maybe due to too much dedication) doesn't mean it's all ZOS' fault.
I'm not saying the game is perfect, I'm saying that people taking breaks is normal.

OtarTheMad

Lexxypwns wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

It does speak volumes to the state of PvP right now. I have even contemplated turning into a PvE player and trying to go down that route in order to keep playing the game... since PvP just isn't working right now.

I still have some faith in ZoS that they will see that making some more diversity in the game, build-set-gear-spell wise, will only make the game better. But my PvP guild is also plagued with some players taking a break.

Broken game is broken, we're all just waiting on something better to come out. I just wish CU would hit consoles

Yeah I am waiting on the next Elder Scrolls single player game. Might check out Camelot Unchained when it comes out but I am a huge fan of the ES franchise.

RedShirtRob

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Just because people are moving on (maybe due to too much dedication) doesn't mean it's all ZOS' fault.
I'm not saying the game is perfect, I'm saying that people taking breaks is normal.

Agreed, but look at the reasons cited for the break...

PrinceFabious

Well, Crown prolly left for some other reasons lololol

kewl

Rookie studio, turnover in the core team, economics of MMOs and the director's objectives don't align with the customer's needs.

RedShirtRob wrote: »

and no, you can't have my stuff (!)

Satiar

Lexxypwns wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

It does speak volumes to the state of PvP right now. I have even contemplated turning into a PvE player and trying to go down that route in order to keep playing the game... since PvP just isn't working right now.

I still have some faith in ZoS that they will see that making some more diversity in the game, build-set-gear-spell wise, will only make the game better. But my PvP guild is also plagued with some players taking a break.

Broken game is broken, we're all just waiting on something better to come out. I just wish CU would hit consoles

Console baddie.

hammayolettuce

The majority of great raid leaders on NA have left and taken players with them because of how poor the state of pvp has been. I can name various leaders who have left, both large and small that have taken multiple players with them to another game.

People may say it is insignificant but when you have been fighting primarily the same people over and over since launch it does add up to quite a loss for eso when these groups split up and a portion leave.

anitajoneb17_ESO

RedShirtRob wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Just because people are moving on (maybe due to too much dedication) doesn't mean it's all ZOS' fault.
I'm not saying the game is perfect, I'm saying that people taking breaks is normal.

Agreed, but look at the reasons cited for the break...

These are self-declared "reasons". I take them with some distance.
We're talking about players who have spent A LOT of time in the game and finally take a break because they have kinda "consumed" everything the game has to offer, for now. This is *normal*, healthy even, and nothing to blame ZOS about. Nothing ZOS could possible do would remedy to the fact that, in spite of being an "endless MMO", the game has en end.

Just enjoy your break guys. Come back when there's enough new content for you to enjoy (and hopefully not to eat too fast).

And hopefully by then the performance issues will be solved (that's the only real issues imho).

anitajoneb17_ESO

hammayolettuce wrote: »

The majority of great raid leaders on NA have left and taken players with them because of how poor the state of pvp has been.

I could testify too that the majority of great raid leader EU have actually stayed... or left to try BDO and come back 3 weeks later.
PvP has performance issues, but it is still the greatest experience to be enjoyed atm.

.

Zheg

I can now count on one hand the number of groups that run in NA-PC TF now, for every alliance combined. Nicely done ww2.

Elong

Zheg wrote: »

I can now count on one hand the number of groups that run in NA-PC TF now, for every alliance combined. Nicely done ww2.

Bloody sad state of affairs isn't it.

DKsUnite

Zheg wrote: »

I can now count on one hand the number of groups that run in NA-PC TF now, for every alliance combined. Nicely done ww2.

not sure if its because of lack of groups/raid leads or because of too many zergs?

Elong

DKsUnite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

I can now count on one hand the number of groups that run in NA-PC TF now, for every alliance combined. Nicely done ww2.

not sure if its because of lack of groups/raid leads or because of too many zergs?

Haha yes, there's only 3 groups at the moment. DC raid, EP raid, AD small man.

Zheg

DKsUnite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

I can now count on one hand the number of groups that run in NA-PC TF now, for every alliance combined. Nicely done ww2.

not sure if its because of lack of groups/raid leads or because of too many zergs?

it's both. There has been a steady decline in pvp guilds for over a year. This last patch though... I can hardly even force myself to log on at night. If we weren't trying so hard to keep together a great a crew for CU I think most of us would just uninstall and move on.

If I'm able to stay in game without crashing every time there's an engagement, you either fight 50+ in a zerg with emperor siege while heavily outnumbered, or you find the unicorn of one of the few remaining guilds still playing and away from the main single fight on the map.Now there's one less guild to fight, and in fact... I think none left on yellow? Truly a shame.

Wish victorem well, see you in CU.

Kupoking

Considering the state of AD NA, we been the most underpowered faction since 1.6 hit, as we lost the most experienced guild we ever had and with the creation of 2 DC guilds with monstrous rosters. Currently, all organized guilds are running with extremely small rosters as there is a severe lack of dedicated pvpers in PC NA. To add to this, most organized guild are tired of training new players (my guild has been on training mode with new players since B2P and simply cannot handle it anymore)

Without going into too much detail AD guild politics(drama) were never really good, and (to say the least) most of the core members of vic really didn't help on that matter, which makes me hope they will not roll the same server/alliance as me on CU.

As far as the state of the game. Meh, better hope for BG and arenas anytime soon because, like FENGRUSH stated in his 2 videos, Cyrodiil is pretty much done for and there is no way of it to come back. Campaing Scoring doesnt mean anything anymore. Same goes with leaderboards. Unplayable lag. Bugs that are exploited everywhere. Mechanics that doesnt help with overall health of Cyrodiil. People log and to kill a few players then log out or go do something else.

Hell, even the arms race for vicious death lasted, what, 2 weeks? Meaning, in pvp we need more than new cool items rewards to make it revive.

WalkingLegacy

PrinceFabious wrote: »

Well, Crown prolly left for some other reasons lololol

Crown is gone?

zyk

Rage shutdown as an active guild shortly after 2.3 launched.

The worst part of this exodus is the complete lack of a reaction from ZOS. If Reddit players were waving their pitchforks about mudcrabs being too challenging to fight, I bet @ZOS_MattFiror would personally be putting out that fire.

It just goes to show ZOS abandoned our audience long before we abandoned them. Jerks.

Baconlad

SLY'S WOLF PACK anyone? Yeah I don't even know if they have anyone running anymore. Seen a lot of former members still running, but we mostly zerg surf or small man together. I think most players are sick of the zerg aspect of the game. I love objectives, defending ***. But I would love to see more even numbers of battles in a small instances environment with cyrodil as a "until next battleground" thing

RadioheadSh0t

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

RedShirtRob wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Just because people are moving on (maybe due to too much dedication) doesn't mean it's all ZOS' fault.
I'm not saying the game is perfect, I'm saying that people taking breaks is normal.

Agreed, but look at the reasons cited for the break...

These are self-declared "reasons". I take them with some distance.
We're talking about players who have spent A LOT of time in the game and finally take a break because they have kinda "consumed" everything the game has to offer, for now. This is *normal*, healthy even, and nothing to blame ZOS about. Nothing ZOS could possible do would remedy to the fact that, in spite of being an "endless MMO", the game has en end.

Just enjoy your break guys. Come back when there's enough new content for you to enjoy (and hopefully not to eat too fast).

And hopefully by then the performance issues will be solved (that's the only real issues imho).

All due respect, I think you don't understand the "why" of these players leaving. These players would have stayed playing had there just been any sort of shred of PvP love. The lack of content updates, latency and bug fixes, balance changes, and open communications with the Devs is why these players have left. That is a complete failure on ZOS's part. Why fix PvP when people are paying you $25 for a re-skinned mount?

They didn't leave so much as they were forced out by systematic and pervasive neglect towards the PVP community by ZOS. Many of these players didn't "want" to leave, they simple were given zero reasons to stay. PvE players get "a million reasons to play," where as PvP players have gotten nothing except declining performance and an increasing number of bugs, all the while being lied to about "prioritizing" Cyrodiil performance. How can you "prioritize" performance and it still get worse? Incompetence? Refusal to dedicate resources? Both?

The performance issues will never be solved, therefore these players may never return.

Sure, BGs or Arenas -may- bring back some of those players, but most hardcore PvPers have lost faith that ZOS will do it not only well, but in a way that caters primarily to the PvP community. Most likely they will be centered around PVE with PvP on the side, which will be unappealing to most PvP-focused players.

I wanted this game to be great, I'd still be playing it regularly if it was. It's not, and I'm not, and it didn't have to be that way. But that's what happens when you neglect PvP and cater to PvE carebears.

Garwulf

Elong wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

I can now count on one hand the number of groups that run in NA-PC TF now, for every alliance combined. Nicely done ww2.

not sure if its because of lack of groups/raid leads or because of too many zergs?

Haha yes, there's only 3 groups at the moment. DC raid, EP raid, AD small man.

Yes ZoS has finally solved the so-called Zerg problem by implementing the Horde. With current AOE caps the Horde can run over anything in its path, 'vapourising' players as they go....

RadioheadSh0t

It's no surprise that the most active PvP guilds are leaving the game. I really miss Decibel, and had some of the greatest gaming experiences of my life with them, but I can't blame leadership for not wanting to put in the time to run a guild in a game that doesn't put the time in to keep you playing.

Since launch, what has ZOS given PvP players? Nothing. They removed all PvP systems from their one "PvP" update, and have "No ETA" on their first real PvP update.

Think about that, this game may have its third anniversary without one... single... PvP... update. If you had told me that at launch, I don't know if I would've played. Many of the people who paid subs and put time into the game for the early part of its life were PVPers. Many of the people who built the community that kept this game afloat when it was struggling were PvPers. EDIT: Many of the people who beta and PTS tested this game were PvPers. We are a large part of why this game was successful in any way, and to be consistently neglected and marginalized is flat out insulting.

ZOS needs to either detail concrete and specific plans to not only fix, but enhance PvP, or just simply admit that they are not willing to dedicate the resources to do so, and that they are going to use their remaining resources to cater to the PvE community exclusively.

imredneckson

I would love to continue to fight in Cyrodiil but the game has gone straight down hill. I don't like PvE almost at all and as soon as I lvl a toon up to 10 its in Cryrodiil only leaving to grind it till its vet 16 but I cant even look at hey after I'm done with grinding I can head to PvP and have a good time. I got ganked yesterday by a NB and both times I was feared I couldn't CC break ( not pissed I got ganked ) for the duration of the fear and I died. I have constant FPS and Ping problems, abilities that have been broken for months to years, no new content, bugs, exploits, and the list goes on. This doesn't make me want to sub in ESO nor does it make me want to play. I stay on once a day for a few minutes to check out how my buddies are doing, see if they need some gear that I can make them, complete a writ, and that's it I may drop into Cyrodiil for a short time but mostly no I just leave after I finish turning in the writ.

I would love to see this game get back on its feet again and if I would help ZOS improve the game go back to a monthly sub to play the game. This way they don't need to worry about money and only worrying about how fast they can pump out DLCs or put more into crown store for how much money they are losing and start fixing their game then great. Until the game is fixed in a big way sad to say ill stay unsubbed and ill be playing other games.

JDar

There are still plenty of guilds out there for AD. You can join Fantasia, run with Fat Grim Reaper, or ask Telel about Children of Hircine.

PenguinInACan

JDar wrote: »

There are still plenty of guilds out there for AD. You can join Fantasia, run with Fat Grim Reaper, or ask Telel about Children of Hircine.

I don't think the running theme of this post is to say AD doesn't have any guilds still running. There will always be guilds running in PvP. The major point a lot of people are trying to make is that the people that have been playing since launch that stuck through the horrible season 1 bugs (caltrops etc), the introduction of CP to combat softcaps, and the horrible sets added to force metas, have been all forced away.

I was lucky enough to be a major part in a guild that has played together from the beginning through all the bugs and "fixes". It's just sad that most of us are moving on while all of these new players have to discover how bad PvP can be.

JDar

PenguinInACan wrote: »

JDar wrote: »

There are still plenty of guilds out there for AD. You can join Fantasia, run with Fat Grim Reaper, or ask Telel about Children of Hircine.

I don't think the running theme of this post is to say AD doesn't have any guilds still running. There will always be guilds running in PvP. The major point a lot of people are trying to make is that the people that have been playing since launch that stuck through the horrible season 1 bugs (caltrops etc), the introduction of CP to combat softcaps, and the horrible sets added to force metas, have been all forced away.

I was lucky enough to be a major part in a guild that has played together from the beginning through all the bugs and "fixes". It's just sad that most of us are moving on while all of these new players have to discover how bad PvP can be.

I disagree. I think the running theme of this thread is that the sky is falling, when in fact there is still a vibrant, robust community of players still playing this game.

I have always said, there is no such thing as a bad party. A party is what you make of it. People are coming to ESO and saying it is a bad party because of their own personal hang-ups. I still think it is the best MMO out there, and that ZoS is doing a decent job of running the game, even in light of the massive technical challenges they face.

PenguinInACan

JDar wrote: »

PenguinInACan wrote: »

JDar wrote: »

There are still plenty of guilds out there for AD. You can join Fantasia, run with Fat Grim Reaper, or ask Telel about Children of Hircine.

I don't think the running theme of this post is to say AD doesn't have any guilds still running. There will always be guilds running in PvP. The major point a lot of people are trying to make is that the people that have been playing since launch that stuck through the horrible season 1 bugs (caltrops etc), the introduction of CP to combat softcaps, and the horrible sets added to force metas, have been all forced away.

I was lucky enough to be a major part in a guild that has played together from the beginning through all the bugs and "fixes". It's just sad that most of us are moving on while all of these new players have to discover how bad PvP can be.

I disagree. I think the running theme of this thread is that the sky is falling, when in fact there is still a vibrant, robust community of players still playing this game.

I have always said, there is no such thing as a bad party. A party is what you make of it. People are coming to ESO and saying it is a bad party because of their own personal hang-ups. I still think it is the best MMO out there, and that ZoS is doing a decent job of running the game.

It's a fantastic MMO, but its all a matter of perspective.

The lot of us that still read/post on the forums are all grumpy and angry at the lag and balance and poor performance issues that have plagued us since the light hit the dumb patches.

The problem I've noticed is that the robust community of players are either on consoles, or are new enough to PvP to not see the blatant performance issues that multiple teams of devs have told us are going to be fixed since launch. Eventually those players will either get bored with PvP, or become whatever the next FOTM ball group is. Either way, what we played 2 years ago that made us all so excited for this game isn't really there anymore, and that is really sad, because I had the most fun I have had in an MMO in a long time when ESO launched. Now, its just not there for me. But again, perspective. I'm sure ZOS is still making decent money and who knows, maybe in another year or so it might be back to the magical lag-free, large scale PvP game we all loved when it launched.