Xarcus wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

But I still think the High Elves are the worst.

Really I dont understand the how and why ?

I actually dont understand the logic of elf haters. Obviously 4th era Thalmor or Ruuvitar's crew are evil, but its kinda hypocritical to blame them and call things like wiping Falmer race, destroying Orsinium, hunting down Ayleids that werent involved in sacrificing humans and worshipping evil daedra, conquering the whole continent etc great and badass.
Also Altmer are not the only racists. What about nords who look down upon "milk drinkers"? What about Imperials who think that only humans deserve to rule Tamriel, even though 6 of 10 Tamriel races are not human.
I'm not saying that elves are super kind and benevolent, its not the case (obviously), but human races of Tamriel are not any better.

Nothing wrong with a couple of Argonians to make me a sandwich

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Well I would argue to give elves a chance ... but well look at the snow elves and ancient nords of Atmora.......

The snow elves got what they deserved, they feared Nordic overpopulation so instead of negotiating something they attacked and killed innocent Nords.

They payed the price for that action.

The conflict is more likely related to Eye of Magnus, because source that suggests that Falmer were afraid of nords (Pocket Guide to the Empire, 1st edition) is heavily biased against elves. Just read the AD part and compare it to AD locations in ESO.
And reading that someone "deserves genocide" is really weird, even if its just a fictional race.

If a group decides to attempt genocide to your group on a collective whim.
How could your group ever be safe ?
How do you remove that threat that lingers over you like an ever present shadow.

Its a moral dilemna indeed.
Should we create anti virus and anti bacterials ?
Do we not cull animals when they help themselves to assets that we (for some unknown reason) have deemed belong to us.
Does anything on the planet that we live have our nametag written upon it ?

No. We take what we want and hold onto it for as long as we can and then try to justify the injustifiable.
Nobody anywhere has rights to anything other than the skin they are born in.
Whether that's done individually or as a group is neither here nor there.
Some do it for self survival.
Some do it for power over others.
Some do it for mutual advantage.
Some sacrifice out of selflessness.

Co-existence is the dilemma of all life and captured quite well by elder scrolls.

theher0not wrote: »

Altmer: Mainly due to how they are in skyrim. I have nothing against Arreyn or her dominion(excluding the clawless commander who tried to commit a genocide in Shadowscale). Those elves who tries to overrhrow arreny are awefull though they are not better than dunmers.

Here we are.
Dude, you're talking about 4th era. You're talking about a war and its consequences, which have not even took place, this is in 1000+ years. You can't blame Altmers for your 'future hate' because you're a nord or redguard i guess ?

Just understand Altmer's point of view. Read the story since Ehlnofey's split, (or since Lorkhan) and give us better reasons.

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Vigarr wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Well, nords for example wiped an entire race because of conflict, including those who were innocent.

They were trying to establish a new life in a new land and the elves couldn't abide that so they killed everyone. Ysgramor responded by rallying a handful of warriors and wiped their race from the land....pretty badass imo.

Actually, the reasons of the conflict are unknown.

The reason for the Night of Tears has been lost to time,

But your post is a very good illustration how being cruel and bloodthristy conqueror turns out to be a good thing if you like the character.

I thought the Night of Tears referred to the Snow Elves slaughtering a city of Nedes. (Sancre Tor?) The reason the elves struck has been lost to time, the Nedes remembered because they survived.

It was Saarthal, first settlement of Nord's ancestors, who arrived from Atmora.
This is a really awful story, and I can understand the revenge, but what Ysgramor did is still way too extreme.
And this is what I'm trying to say. No race deserves genocide.

Also, there's actually 2 important things that people tend to mix up. First is the moral aspect of the story and characters. Of course, many of the things that happen in TES universe wouldve been outright horrific if they were real. Second thing is characterization. Fictional characters dont have to be saints or role models to be interesting, and you can like a character that you wouldnt want to meet irl, and this is perfectly fine. And tbh, from this point of view, stereotypes are the only issue... You know, all these silly drunken nords or evil altmer necromancers. Those 2 races equally suffer from stereotypization, which is kinda ironic.
But its really weird when people judge characters they dont like from real life point of view. But then again, from this point of view, at least some of heroes of TES universe are not very "nice" people. For example, Vivec or Tiber Septim, or Ysgramor. And of course, they dont have to be "nice" to be good characters. But the thing is, if we're discussing things from moral standpoint, some of their deeds are immoral.

JKorr wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Xarcus wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

But I still think the High Elves are the worst.

Really I dont understand the how and why ?

I actually dont understand the logic of elf haters. Obviously 4th era Thalmor or Ruuvitar's crew are evil, but its kinda hypocritical to blame them and call things like wiping Falmer race, destroying Orsinium, hunting down Ayleids that werent involved in sacrificing humans and worshipping evil daedra, conquering the whole continent etc great and badass.
Also Altmer are not the only racists. What about nords who look down upon "milk drinkers"? What about Imperials who think that only humans deserve to rule Tamriel, even though 6 of 10 Tamriel races are not human.
I'm not saying that elves are super kind and benevolent, its not the case (obviously), but human races of Tamriel are not any better.

You do realize that the Nords use milk-drinker as a general insult, right? Even to other Nords? My Nord was called milk-drinker more times than I can remember by other random Nords. I tended to prove they were wrong to look down on people who drink milk by killing them and heading my Dragonborn to the tavern for a nice big mug of milk.....

I do. Hence the quotations.

Rune_Relic wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Well I would argue to give elves a chance ... but well look at the snow elves and ancient nords of Atmora.......

The snow elves got what they deserved, they feared Nordic overpopulation so instead of negotiating something they attacked and killed innocent Nords.

They payed the price for that action.

The conflict is more likely related to Eye of Magnus, because source that suggests that Falmer were afraid of nords (Pocket Guide to the Empire, 1st edition) is heavily biased against elves. Just read the AD part and compare it to AD locations in ESO.
And reading that someone "deserves genocide" is really weird, even if its just a fictional race.

If a group decides to attempt genocide to your group on a collective whim.
How could your group ever be safe ?
How do you remove that threat that lingers over you like an ever present shadow.

Its a moral dilemna indeed.
Should we create anti virus and anti bacterials ?
Do we not cull animals when they help themselves to assets that we (for some unknown reason) have deemed belong to us.
Does anything on the planet that we live have our nametag written upon it ?

No. We take what we want and hold onto it for as long as we can and then try to justify the injustifiable.
Nobody anywhere has rights to anything other than the skin they are born in.
Whether that's done individually or as a group is neither here nor there.
Some do it for self survival.
Some do it for power over others.
Some do it for mutual advantage.
Some sacrifice out of selflessness.

Co-existence is the dilemma of all life and captured quite well by elder scrolls.

In any case, if we're discussing things from moral point of view, killing innocents is immoral, even if some of their race did something horrible. We're not living in stone age, and even in TES things are a bit more complicated, and "kill 'em all" is not an answer to everything. Murder is still considered a bad thing by average Tamriel folks, so their morals are not very different from ours.