Silk, Rubedo and Rubedite price go down AND Gold Mats go up. Huh?

Eshelmen · March 2016

Stacks of silk, rubedite and rubedo aren't going for no more than $10k now....which is fine for me. It's so easy to pick up now that it shouldn't cost much at all.
Three weeks ago they cost between $35k-$45k a stack, here on NA PS4.

However, it appears that gold mats such as Alloy, Wax and Rosin have either stayed the same price or have even spiked.
Why?
I'm farming level 10 mats probably 4 times the rate pre DLC and yet gold mats stay same or even have a higher price? It doesn't make sense.
Sure they are still a pain in the butt to acquire, but those who farm and then refine their raw mats, should be recieiving gold mats at 4 times the speed(or whatever that rate is) than they used to do.

Alloys are still $11k-$12k, Wax is averaging $6k(used to be $4k) and Rosin is all over the place $6k-$8k (Used to be $3,500).

Now granted, the DLC JUST came out, so I expected some fluctuations within the market.
These two examples specifically, just don't make sense, especially when refining one, is the primary source for acquiring the other(gold mats).

Pre DLC(TG), the majority of my money was selling silk and now nobody wants it. They're focused on their Vicious Death sets or something else that is new.

I obviously know that most players needing gold mats now are improving their new VD set or something like that. But having the same price with a near 4 times the production rate is simply some scammy stuff. lol
And this is coming from a sellers standpoint more so than a buyers.

MissBizz · March 2016

Gold mats spike in price after a DLC because many folks work on crafting or finding their new gear set(s) and then upgrade it to gold... Therefore more gold Mata are getting used.. Less gold mats for sale.. Price goes up.

UrQuan · March 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

Gold mats spike in price after a DLC because many folks work on crafting or finding their new gear set(s) and then upgrade it to gold... Therefore more gold Mata are getting used.. Less gold mats for sale.. Price goes up.

^This.

But also, your assumption that people are refining more mats now that VR15-16 nodes are more common is likely flawed. A large number of people who were farming nodes (probably most of them) would have been grabbing every node, not just the Rubedite/Ruby Ash/Ancestor Silk ones. It made sense to do that for 2 reasons:

An unharvested Voidstone node won't respawn and therefore won't have a chance to turn into Rubedite.
More nodes harvested (of any type) means more refining and getting valuable tempers.

So while some people were probably only grabbing the max-level nodes, most serious farmers would have been grabbing and refining all of them anyway.

So there's an increased demand for the gold tempers due to new gear to upgrade, and no big increase in the supply of gold tempers.

Sunburnt_Penguin · March 2016

I'd imagine it's caused by a few things:
1. Wrothgar now only showing v15 nodes
2. Hew's Bane being a new popular area and showing all of these whilst questing
3. Rubedo is now dropping a lot more from creatures
4. V16 Runes dropping from HB which means there's another use for Tel Var

VodkaVixen1979 · March 2016

I am still refining the same amount of materials I used to, it's just better stuff now. I did have stacks upon stacks upon more stacks of voidstone, void bloom, etc that got sold off to the general merchant. Now that v15-16 nodes are more abundant, those materials are now entering the player market, but without an increase in gold upgrade drops. Take all the money you save on mats and start buying tempering alloys and dreugh wax!

Nestor · March 2016

Prior to the change in mats, not many people went to VR16 on armor, or on all armor pieces. Now that top end mats are finally found in sane amounts, more people are finally making their VR16 Armors.

Duiwel · March 2016

Higher demand for gold mats = too much supply of the materials ( due to refining to obtain said gold mats ) thus the actual materials are even more than it use to be where as the gold mats demand stays the same or increases ( but unlike the normal mats ) it cannot keep up with demand, where as the normal mats more than satisfy demand )

Economics 101

bryanhaas · March 2016

Eshelmen wrote: »

Stacks of silk, rubedite and rubedo aren't going for no more than $10k now....which is fine for me. It's so easy to pick up now that it shouldn't cost much at all.
Three weeks ago they cost between $35k-$45k a stack, here on NA PS4.

However, it appears that gold mats such as Alloy, Wax and Rosin have either stayed the same price or have even spiked.
Why?
I'm farming level 10 mats probably 4 times the rate pre DLC and yet gold mats stay same or even have a higher price? It doesn't make sense.
Sure they are still a pain in the butt to acquire, but those who farm and then refine their raw mats, should be recieiving gold mats at 4 times the speed(or whatever that rate is) than they used to do.

Alloys are still $11k-$12k, Wax is averaging $6k(used to be $4k) and Rosin is all over the place $6k-$8k (Used to be $3,500).

Now granted, the DLC JUST came out, so I expected some fluctuations within the market.
These two examples specifically, just don't make sense, especially when refining one, is the primary source for acquiring the other(gold mats).

Pre DLC(TG), the majority of my money was selling silk and now nobody wants it. They're focused on their Vicious Death sets or something else that is new.

I obviously know that most players needing gold mats now are improving their new VD set or something like that. But having the same price with a near 4 times the production rate is simply some scammy stuff. lol
And this is coming from a sellers standpoint more so than a buyers.

As long as people keep paying those prices I'll keep selling for those prices. If they come back to me I'll drop my price.

I occasionally sell a tempering alloy for 20k not sure why anyone pays that much but I'm not complaining.

Eshelmen · March 2016

Duiwel wrote: »

Higher demand for gold mats = too much supply of the materials ( due to refining to obtain said gold mats ) thus the actual materials are even more than it use to be where as the gold mats demand stays the same or increases ( but unlike the normal mats ) it cannot keep up with demand, where as the normal mats more than satisfy demand )

Economics 101

The requirements to keep up with the supply and demand requires production rates to increase, yet require production costs to decrease as well, right?

I don't know any level 50 crafter who primarily goes to Deshaan or Stonefalls(EP) to farm and refine raw mats.
My assumption was and still is, most level 50 crafters will and have been farming in the newest areas that scale to your level. Wrothgar and HB.

So yes, my assumption that most level 50 farmers will acquire their gold mats at a significantly higher rate.

And let's be real here. Pre DLC, the only reason to go to lower level nodes was ONLY to refine for mats. But, the difference(PRE DLC) with farming in wrothgar versus deshaan,is that you are guaranteed more money farming level 9 and 10 nodes versus level 1 or 2 nodes. Why?

Because silk and such was expensive and profitable to sell. Void bloom was easily acquired and could still be sold for some profit, yet the abundance of Void Bloom with the amount of Silk(or Rubedo or Rubedite) you picked up, was still way more profitable and practical than to just go farm level 1 or 2 nodes.

Number_51 · March 2016

I get the same chance at the same amount of gold tempers whether I refine 50 rough maple or 50 rough ruby ash... don't I?... I think...

So no, I don't think the supply of gold tempers has gone up. It has probably gone down as more people are now able to get the mats for their VR16 gear.

UrQuan · March 2016

Eshelmen wrote: »

Duiwel wrote: »

Higher demand for gold mats = too much supply of the materials ( due to refining to obtain said gold mats ) thus the actual materials are even more than it use to be where as the gold mats demand stays the same or increases ( but unlike the normal mats ) it cannot keep up with demand, where as the normal mats more than satisfy demand )

Economics 101

The requirements to keep up with the supply and demand requires production rates to increase, yet require production costs to decrease as well, right?

I don't know any level 50 crafter who primarily goes to Deshaan or Stonefalls(EP) to farm and refine raw mats.
My assumption was and still is, most level 50 crafters will and have been farming in the newest areas that scale to your level. Wrothgar and HB.

So yes, my assumption that most level 50 farmers will acquire their gold mats at a significantly higher rate.

And let's be real here. Pre DLC, the only reason to go to lower level nodes was ONLY to refine for mats. But, the difference(PRE DLC) with farming in wrothgar versus deshaan,is that you are guaranteed more money farming level 9 and 10 nodes versus level 1 or 2 nodes. Why?

Because silk and such was expensive and profitable to sell. Void bloom was easily acquired and could still be sold for some profit, yet the abundance of Void Bloom with the amount of Silk(or Rubedo or Rubedite) you picked up, was still way more profitable and practical than to just go farm level 1 or 2 nodes.

Um, what? Nobody was talking about farmers going and farming in zones other than Wrothgar (and now Hew's Bane). People who were farming in Wrothgar are going to be producing the same number of tempers now as they were before, because they'll be getting the same number of nodes now as they were before: the only difference is that now 100% of those ore nodes will be rubedite instead of the majority of them being voidstone.

So rubedite supply increases, demand stays the same, price drops.

Temper supply stays the same, demand increases, price doesn't drop.

I already explained this in the 3rd post in this thread.

Eshelmen · March 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

Duiwel wrote: »

Higher demand for gold mats = too much supply of the materials ( due to refining to obtain said gold mats ) thus the actual materials are even more than it use to be where as the gold mats demand stays the same or increases ( but unlike the normal mats ) it cannot keep up with demand, where as the normal mats more than satisfy demand )

Economics 101

The requirements to keep up with the supply and demand requires production rates to increase, yet require production costs to decrease as well, right?

I don't know any level 50 crafter who primarily goes to Deshaan or Stonefalls(EP) to farm and refine raw mats.
My assumption was and still is, most level 50 crafters will and have been farming in the newest areas that scale to your level. Wrothgar and HB.

So yes, my assumption that most level 50 farmers will acquire their gold mats at a significantly higher rate.

And let's be real here. Pre DLC, the only reason to go to lower level nodes was ONLY to refine for mats. But, the difference(PRE DLC) with farming in wrothgar versus deshaan,is that you are guaranteed more money farming level 9 and 10 nodes versus level 1 or 2 nodes. Why?

Because silk and such was expensive and profitable to sell. Void bloom was easily acquired and could still be sold for some profit, yet the abundance of Void Bloom with the amount of Silk(or Rubedo or Rubedite) you picked up, was still way more profitable and practical than to just go farm level 1 or 2 nodes.

Um, what? Nobody was talking about farmers going and farming in zones other than Wrothgar (and now Hew's Bane). People who were farming in Wrothgar are going to be producing the same number of tempers now as they were before, because they'll be getting the same number of nodes now as they were before: the only difference is that now 100% of those ore nodes will be rubedite instead of the majority of them being voidstone.

So rubedite supply increases, demand stays the same, price drops.

Temper supply stays the same, demand increases, price doesn't drop.

I already explained this in the 3rd post in this thread.

Did you even read what I said? Or are you nit picking at a sentence or two?
I know what you said. My quote was a response to everyone in the entire thread.

You're the only one I know to farm lower level nodes. Literally.

It's quite simple, refining mats is the primary source for acquiring gold mats. RIGHT?????
So if most level 50 crafters/farmers are farming level 9 and level 10 nodes(Pre DLC) it would have been much more profitable to do so than to go to a lower level node and farm it instead. Please re read that if you have a question about this.

It makes perfect sense.

Why knock only one thing out when you can knock out two birds with one stone?

Eshelmen · March 2016

Number_51 wrote: »

I get the same chance at the same amount of gold tempers whether I refine 50 rough maple or 50 rough ruby ash... don't I?... I think...

So no, I don't think the supply of gold tempers has gone up. It has probably gone down as more people are now able to get the mats for their VR16 gear.

My point exactly. Nailed it. More available and more reason to farm level 10 mats in general now. Which adds a huge reason to farm in general too. So gold mats should be more available, in which should decrease the overall price. But it's not. Which is weird. lol

UrQuan · March 2016

Eshelmen wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

Duiwel wrote: »

Higher demand for gold mats = too much supply of the materials ( due to refining to obtain said gold mats ) thus the actual materials are even more than it use to be where as the gold mats demand stays the same or increases ( but unlike the normal mats ) it cannot keep up with demand, where as the normal mats more than satisfy demand )

Economics 101

The requirements to keep up with the supply and demand requires production rates to increase, yet require production costs to decrease as well, right?

I don't know any level 50 crafter who primarily goes to Deshaan or Stonefalls(EP) to farm and refine raw mats.
My assumption was and still is, most level 50 crafters will and have been farming in the newest areas that scale to your level. Wrothgar and HB.

So yes, my assumption that most level 50 farmers will acquire their gold mats at a significantly higher rate.

And let's be real here. Pre DLC, the only reason to go to lower level nodes was ONLY to refine for mats. But, the difference(PRE DLC) with farming in wrothgar versus deshaan,is that you are guaranteed more money farming level 9 and 10 nodes versus level 1 or 2 nodes. Why?

Because silk and such was expensive and profitable to sell. Void bloom was easily acquired and could still be sold for some profit, yet the abundance of Void Bloom with the amount of Silk(or Rubedo or Rubedite) you picked up, was still way more profitable and practical than to just go farm level 1 or 2 nodes.

Um, what? Nobody was talking about farmers going and farming in zones other than Wrothgar (and now Hew's Bane). People who were farming in Wrothgar are going to be producing the same number of tempers now as they were before, because they'll be getting the same number of nodes now as they were before: the only difference is that now 100% of those ore nodes will be rubedite instead of the majority of them being voidstone.

So rubedite supply increases, demand stays the same, price drops.

Temper supply stays the same, demand increases, price doesn't drop.

I already explained this in the 3rd post in this thread.

Did you even read what I said? Or are you nit picking at a sentence or two?
I know what you said. My quote was a response to everyone in the entire thread.

You're the only one I know to farm lower level nodes. Literally.

It's quite simple, refining mats is the primary source for acquiring gold mats. RIGHT?????
So if most level 50 crafters/farmers are farming level 9 and level 10 nodes(Pre DLC) it would have been much more profitable to do so than to go to a lower level node and farm it instead. Please re read that if you have a question about this.

It makes perfect sense.

Why knock only one thing out when you can knock out two birds with one stone?

*facepalm*

Why do you keep talking about going and farming lower level nodes? Literally nobody but you is talking about farming anywhere but max-level zones. We're only talking about Wrothgar nodes on a character with maxed-out crafting.

So the farmers were grabbing all level 9 and level 10 nodes. Now they're grabbing all of the same nodes, the only difference is that now those same nodes are all level 10.

Hence temper supply stays the same (they're still refining the same number of mats), but the supply of level 10 mats increases (because now all of the mats being refined are level 10, instead of being a mix of level 9 and level 10).

Your assumption that farmers are now producing more gold tempers is simply wrong. It's really simple, and I can't understand why this concept is giving you so much difficulty.

Number_51 · March 2016

Umm, I was actually kinda contradicting you. Specifically where you said "So yes, my assumption that most level 50 farmers will acquire their gold mats at a significantly higher rate." I would very much doubt that there are a lot more people farming now then there was before TG, nor would the farmers themselves be farming more then usual (both points are conjecture on my part). So I'm saying there are probably roughly the same amount of gold tempers out there now as there was before (less VR9-14 mats and more VR15-16 mats but an equal amount when added together).

The fact that more people now have access to VR15-16 mats for gear means that they'll need gold tempers and the supply is actually (conjecture again) down. Which leads to higher prices.

ETA: Conjecture based on my own play. I am a farmer and I find myself actually farming less since it's easier to get VR15-16 mats now.

Eshelmen · March 2016

Number_51 wrote: »

Umm, I was actually kinda contradicting you. Specifically where you said "So yes, my assumption that most level 50 farmers will acquire their gold mats at a significantly higher rate." I would very much doubt that there are a lot more people farming now then there was before TG, nor would the farmers themselves be farming more then usual (both points are conjecture on my part). So I'm saying there are probably roughly the same amount of gold tempers out there now as there was before (less VR9-14 mats and more VR15-16 mats but an equal amount when added together).

The fact that more people now have access to VR15-16 mats for gear means that they'll need gold tempers and the supply is actually (conjecture again) down. Which leads to higher prices.

but then you contradict yourself then. You said they stayed same price.

Nestor · March 2016

Eshelmen wrote: »

I don't know any level 50 crafter who primarily goes to Deshaan or Stonefalls(EP) to farm and refine raw mats.
My assumption was and still is, most level 50 crafters will and have been farming in the newest areas that scale to your level. Wrothgar and HB.

I go to lower level Silver and Gold zones all the time to farm for mats. No one is there and the mats are practically jumping into my bags as I walk by. There is one zone where I can pick up a 100 stack of raw mats in about 5 minutes all farmed from a pretty small area. Pretty much guarantees me a Gold Temper, one or two Purples and a smattering of Blues and Greens come refining time. Granted the refined material has no value in the guild stores (selling for just above game merchant pricing) so I just sell the refined mat stack to a game merchant.

Number_51 · March 2016

Eshelmen wrote: »

Number_51 wrote: »

Umm, I was actually kinda contradicting you. Specifically where you said "So yes, my assumption that most level 50 farmers will acquire their gold mats at a significantly higher rate." I would very much doubt that there are a lot more people farming now then there was before TG, nor would the farmers themselves be farming more then usual (both points are conjecture on my part). So I'm saying there are probably roughly the same amount of gold tempers out there now as there was before (less VR9-14 mats and more VR15-16 mats but an equal amount when added together).

The fact that more people now have access to VR15-16 mats for gear means that they'll need gold tempers and the supply is actually (conjecture again) down. Which leads to higher prices.

but then you contradict yourself then. You said they stayed same price.

No, I'm pretty sure I have not said that. Both my posts in this thread are giving reason why the price may have gone up. I did say that the supply of gold tempers hasn't gone up, but again, I'm just guessing there.

BTW, I'm expecting prices of void mats to go up as well. It's still needed for top level writs, only farmable in Craiglorn if you have maxed crafting passives, and with the change to mats recovered from stolen items not profitable to steal any more.

Eshelmen · March 2016

Okay okay okay.
Appreciate the responses. Thank you very much.

Nestor · March 2016

Number_51 wrote: »

BTW, I'm expecting prices of void mats to go up as well. It's still needed for top level writs, only farmable in Craiglorn if you have maxed crafting passives, and with the change to mats recovered from stolen items not profitable to steal any more.

You can get Void Mats in the last two zones of Caldwell's Gold, and they are abundant and rarely farmed. I even know of an area that I can get a 100 stack in about 5 minutes from a relatively small area, at least for the cloth. About half that for the ores in the same area.

Eshelmen · March 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Number_51 wrote: »

BTW, I'm expecting prices of void mats to go up as well. It's still needed for top level writs, only farmable in Craiglorn if you have maxed crafting passives, and with the change to mats recovered from stolen items not profitable to steal any more.

You can get Void Mats in the last two zones of Caldwell's Gold, and they are abundant and rarely farmed. I even know of an area that I can get a 100 stack in about 5 minutes from a relatively small area, at least for the cloth. About half that for the ores in the same area.

Where?

Danksta · March 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Number_51 wrote: »

BTW, I'm expecting prices of void mats to go up as well. It's still needed for top level writs, only farmable in Craiglorn if you have maxed crafting passives, and with the change to mats recovered from stolen items not profitable to steal any more.

You can get Void Mats in the last two zones of Caldwell's Gold, and they are abundant and rarely farmed. I even know of an area that I can get a 100 stack in about 5 minutes from a relatively small area, at least for the cloth. About half that for the ores in the same area.

Stop inviting people to my own personal zone-wide material survey!! But seriously if people want to farm gold tempers...

Waffennacht · April 2016

The nodes in wrothgar are extremely close to each other, that's why I farm there.

Imo demand for temps has NOT increased as they are always needed. I don't see how a few new sets would drive the demand high enough for 100% increase in cost.

I see demand the same everything is the same, except a dlc was released and everyone figures that they can get way more than they're worth

Reevster · April 2016

I saw this coming a few months before TG....bought up about 4 million gold worth of dreugh wax when it was like 2500 ish gold.... I dont have any left.... But I also made like 4 sets of VR16 gold armor for my toons as well so i didnt resell all of it.

Kayira · April 2016

I think it might also be because some people have stopped doing max writs which gave gold mats quite frequently because vet 12-14 mats have increased in price massively as they can't be farmed in wrothgar anymore and would require other areas. So instead of buying stacks of vet 12 mats or farming them people have just stopped doing writs.

ALso I agree that a lot of people are currently upgrading their new sets because vet 15 mats have plummeted in price.

Waffennacht · April 2016

Kayira wrote: »

I think it might also be because some people have stopped doing max writs which gave gold mats quite frequently because vet 12-14 mats have increased in price massively as they can't be farmed in wrothgar anymore and would require other areas. So instead of buying stacks of vet 12 mats or farming them people have just stopped doing writs.

ALso I agree that a lot of people are currently upgrading their new sets because vet 15 mats have plummeted in price.

V15 dropped like a rock cuz you can farm 200 mats in less than an hour in Wrothgar. Before you had to be a boss and do IC for almost 2 hours to get (without being ganked) to get the same amount.

Kayira · April 2016

@Waffennacht I know that. I am talking about voidsteel and so on that is needed for max writs. And if you don't farm them in craglorn or vet gold areas you have to buy them and as they have extremely increased in price many have stopped doing writs and as they give frequently gold mats the price might have gone up.

And hews bane is actually even better for farming than wrothgar in my opinion.

Waffennacht · April 2016

Kayira wrote: »

@Waffennacht I know that. I am talking about voidsteel and so on that is needed for max writs. And if you don't farm them in craglorn or vet gold areas you have to buy them and as they have extremely increased in price many have stopped doing writs and as they give frequently gold mats the price might have gone up.

And hews bane is actually even better for farming than wrothgar in my opinion.

Ah, gotcha, I have just started doin writs on a regular basis. I just decon the weapons and such that come in void form. Like one vDungeon will provide more than enough v14 mats.

Interesting thought tho

failkiwib16_ESO · April 2016

I spent an hour the other night farming guildstores for raw materials and I ended up with ~40 rosin, 6 alloys, ~90 wax.

There are plenty of players who sell raw materials of all levels, but much less who sell actual materials ...unless it's for level 1 writs, Craglorn writs and Wrothgar writs.

The most frequently found raw materials in the stores were: iron ore, rubedite ores, rough ruby ash and ancestor silk but leather was mainly topgrain hide scraps and shadowhide scraps. The vast majority of raw materials in stores used to be v9-v14 materials before TG patch.

The v9 and v15 materials are in constant demand for new gear and writs, so these raw materials can be sold for a higher price, due to the value of the material itself. A farmer that sells raw materials benefit more from farming v15 materials than lower tier ones.

So my guess is that the amount of farmers have remained the same, but the materials have changed in level - thus v15 material prices have gone down. The prices of tempers have gone up, since players have upgraded their gear with each patch.

The only reason why wax prices were below 3k right before IC release was because QuadroTony made a forumpost about the Obsidia Scar farming spot. The wax prices were around 7k and were close to outmatch alloy prices due to the higher demand for them, but with the forum post many players rushed to Obsidian Scar to farm hide ...prices dropped to below 3k on PC/ EU. (the place have been nerfed and the thread is deleted)

Demand for tempers and kutas have always been there, and these things have always been the fastest selling items in stores, and with IC patch add Repora to that list. With new patches the demand usually goes up and drops a tiny bit when the big hype is over... just a tiny bit.