Any news about shield stacking changes ? I really hope they cancel cast time ideas !

chongguang · March 2016

Like i said, it is a really bad move to change shield stacking in this way, if so it will really kill sorcerers in PVP. There are many other better methods than add cast time to solve this or even ZOS can leave shields in current situation IMO.

Sorcerers already got many hits( nerfs) in recent patch, eg battle spirit, new CP passive to hurt shields and shields breaker set. Moreover since damage stacking is the meta right now , sorcerers' shield is easy to break especially with those nerfs i mentioned above.
I really hope ZOS think about changing shield stacking carefully in DB DLC, otherwise the next DLC will be the 'rage quit day' for sorcerers.

chongguang · March 2016

I also wish that ZOS can take this questions on list and answer it in next live stream ( Apr 8th one ).
Thanks a lot

Wreuntzylla · March 2016

Or the sorcs will learn how to play, like every other class has. The 3sec destealth was going to be the doom of all NBs, they adjusted and barely hear a peep out of them anymore.

americansteel · March 2016

no shields-better gameplay! bad players hide behind magical shields.

Lutallo · March 2016

chongguang wrote: »

Sorcerers already got many hits( nerfs) in recent patch, eg battle spirit, new CP passive to hurt shields and shields breaker set. Moreover since damage stacking is the meta right now , sorcerers' shield is easy to break especially with those nerfs i mentioned above.

Pooling elemental damage AND magic damage into one CP tree is a massive buff, so is reducing physical damage from the CP tree.
Sorcs are in a ridiculously good position right now. A good sorc with 501 CP is almost invulnerable, on top of being able to hit 10k+ frags.

Cast time on shields though is a bad idea. I think they only need to make shields susceptible to critical hits.
I have to stack CP and impen pieces to get any hope of crit resistance, but a sorc puts up a 12k shield and gets critical immunity? Bull.

STEVIL · March 2016

Re: this
I have to stack CP and impen pieces to get any hope of crit resistance, but a sorc puts up a 12k shield and gets critical immunity? Bull

Don't other classes also have shields at various options either in class shields, annulment/harness or even thru cp trees?

Not as strong or maybe reliable as the sort maybe but still, seems like most classes can get a crit-stop shield too without worrying about impen.

Templar annul, blaze shield, reinforcement maybe.
DK forget the name of their shield plus the other.

NB don't recall one but too lazy to look it up.

chongguang · March 2016

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Or the sorcs will learn how to play, like every other class has. The 3sec destealth was going to be the doom of all NBs, they adjusted and barely hear a peep out of them anymore.

IMO these are two different stories. As not everyone brings mage light means that NB will not always be blocked to use cloak.
However, add a cast time to sorcerer means that sorcerer will completely lose a chance to protect themselves in dangerous situations.

Wreuntzylla · March 2016

chongguang wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Or the sorcs will learn how to play, like every other class has. The 3sec destealth was going to be the doom of all NBs, they adjusted and barely hear a peep out of them anymore.

IMO these are two different stories. As not everyone brings mage light means that NB will not always be blocked to use cloak.
However, add a cast time to sorcerer means that sorcerer will completely lose a chance to protect themselves in dangerous situations.

Huh? You mean while sporting 50k magicka and 3.8k spell power, without any need to spec in any resistances, crit reduction, etc., able to run without a restro staff, and all while wearing divines/infused when everyone else has to use impenetrable?

I play my sorc to the meta, but personally wish shield stacking wouldn't cabin the class into a small number of builds.

DjSolJAH · March 2016

Honestly, as a sorc, I don't need to stack shields when fighting anything other than another sorc. Most other classes rely on physical damage, with the exception of templarghs... They too require a shield stack but only some. If they were to remove stacking I think it would hurt NBs the most as if I'm running hardened on both bars nightblades can barely touch me. Removing shield stacks would make sorc vs sorc duels very Quick and boring. Adding a cast time would probably make me quit as it would be game over for sorcs with the speed of an animation cancelled attack

chongguang · March 2016

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

chongguang wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Or the sorcs will learn how to play, like every other class has. The 3sec destealth was going to be the doom of all NBs, they adjusted and barely hear a peep out of them anymore.

IMO these are two different stories. As not everyone brings mage light means that NB will not always be blocked to use cloak.
However, add a cast time to sorcerer means that sorcerer will completely lose a chance to protect themselves in dangerous situations.

Huh? You mean while sporting 50k magicka and 3.8k spell power, without any need to spec in any resistances, crit reduction, etc., able to run without a restro staff, and all while wearing divines/infused when everyone else has to use impenetrable?

I play my sorc to the meta, but personally wish shield stacking wouldn't cabin the class into a small number of builds.

Don't know whats your first part indicates, but the your second part is what I agree with . Yeah shields right now really limited builds options for sorcerer, but add a cast time on it is a really bad idea . This is what I really want to say in this thread.

Emma_Overload · March 2016

americansteel wrote: »

no shields-better gameplay! bad players hide behind magical shields.

No..... NERFED players hide behind magical shields. Sorcs never needed or used Ward until Surge was nerfed with a cooldown on heals.

Remove the horrible Surge cooldown, and you can nerf Wards all you want!

Silver_Strider · March 2016

Let you crit shields and it's fine.
If not that, make shields similar to other buffs, i.e. major and minor versions of them, so that you can't stack same type shields.

Forestd16b14_ESO · March 2016

OK shield users here are the options.

1. Add a cast time to some such as healing ward and harden ward.
2. Add them to the major minor system only allowing 1 major shield from skills and one minor shield from secondary effect such as armor effect such as whitestrakes
3. You can have only one shield active at once period and you can not recast or gain a new shield till the one you have now expires.

Your three options for shields pick one.

NBrookus · March 2016

Give me a functioning heal, and I'll gladly stop stacking healing ward under hardened ward. I'd prefer that -- it'd free up a skill slot and I can stop carrying a resto staff for this one thing only.

But I agree shields should be critable, provided the overflow damage takes our resistances into account. This is true for everyone, but it would make paper armor under those shields a lot less attractive for sorcs.

Bear in mind nerfing shields would *significantly* affect PvE sorcs, particularly sorc tanks.

Hurika · March 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

OK shield users here are the options.

1. Add a cast time to some such as healing ward and harden ward.
2. Add them to the major minor system only allowing 1 major shield from skills and one minor shield from secondary effect such as armor effect such as whitestrakes
3. You can have only one shield active at once period and you can not recast or gain a new shield till the one you have now expires.

Your three options for shields pick one.

There are other options - many more than I can think of and probably a lot of good ones out there.

Scaled cost like dodge roll
Cool down timer after cast
Buffs in various skill likes (fighter/mage/etc) that allow some (20%, 50%, etc) damage to bypass shields
Crit on shields
Shields only absorb x% damage so they can be spammed but some damage still harms the caster preventing perma spam
Certain styles/morphs/executs ignore x% of a shield (executes ignore 20%, 50%, etc)
Some very useless current morphs ignore x% of a shield
CP to allow bypassing a shield (ie 10%, 20%, etc) damage ignores shields
new weapon trait that allows a % of damage to bypass shields
Shields keeps you from getting crit but you cannot crit while one is up
Casting a shield drains a portion of the casters life
No magicka regen while a shield is up
Potion to allow attacks to bypass a shield or % of dmg to bypass
Shields are similar to DK reflect - they absorb a fixed number of attacks (ie 3 attacks, etc)
They scale off of health
anything else creative people can think of

I'm not saying any of those are good or bad or balanced or not but 1 or more or something else and implemented in a fashion that ESO can tweak/adjust as needed to ensure balance is out there.

Just my 2 cents.

americansteel · March 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

no shields-better gameplay! bad players hide behind magical shields.

No..... NERFED players hide behind magical shields. Sorcs never needed or used Ward until Surge was nerfed with a cooldown on heals.

Remove the horrible Surge cooldown, and you can nerf Wards all you want!

sorcs-tankier than HA DKs, mobility, stupid OP DPS abilities! conjured ward needs to go. must be real nice to be almost god like.

Reykice · March 2016

chongguang wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Or the sorcs will learn how to play, like every other class has. The 3sec destealth was going to be the doom of all NBs, they adjusted and barely hear a peep out of them anymore.

IMO these are two different stories. As not everyone brings mage light means that NB will not always be blocked to use cloak.
However, add a cast time to sorcerer means that sorcerer will completely lose a chance to protect themselves in dangerous situations.

The shield needs to go. Its being used to solo vet dungeon, trial bosses... that`s how good it is. Having a shield that is bigger than your hp should never be a thing. A hard cap for shields @ 40% hp or so would also fix it, even if they don`t add a cast time.

Sorcs will adapt and heal like everyone else or via crit surge.

chongguang · March 2016

Reykice wrote: »

chongguang wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Or the sorcs will learn how to play, like every other class has. The 3sec destealth was going to be the doom of all NBs, they adjusted and barely hear a peep out of them anymore.

IMO these are two different stories. As not everyone brings mage light means that NB will not always be blocked to use cloak.
However, add a cast time to sorcerer means that sorcerer will completely lose a chance to protect themselves in dangerous situations.

The shield needs to go. Its being used to solo vet dungeon, trial bosses... that`s how good it is. Having a shield that is bigger than your hp should never be a thing. A hard cap for shields @ 40% hp or so would also fix it, even if they don`t add a cast time.

Sorcs will adapt and heal like everyone else or via crit surge.

1. Never heard that sorcerers with shield can do such things.
2. I can only accept shields can be critical.
3. Sorcerer has not solid self heals , even worse than NB. NB can sap and use his 'vampire‘ kind spells to heal and dps. Sorcerer only has one kind skill with a inner CD.
4. No doubt that nerf shields too much will force more people to leave rather any kind of good results

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

chongguang wrote: »

Like i said, it is a really bad move to change shield stacking in this way, if so it will really kill sorcerers in PVP. There are many other better methods than add cast time to solve this or even ZOS can leave shields in current situation IMO.

Sorcerers already got many hits( nerfs) in recent patch, eg battle spirit, new CP passive to hurt shields and shields breaker set. Moreover since damage stacking is the meta right now , sorcerers' shield is easy to break especially with those nerfs i mentioned above.
I really hope ZOS think about changing shield stacking carefully in DB DLC, otherwise the next DLC will be the 'rage quit day' for sorcerers.

If they add a cast time on all shields, like the Templar shield, they might as well delete that skill, its barely worth firing off even in pve.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

chongguang wrote: »

Reykice wrote: »

chongguang wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Or the sorcs will learn how to play, like every other class has. The 3sec destealth was going to be the doom of all NBs, they adjusted and barely hear a peep out of them anymore.

IMO these are two different stories. As not everyone brings mage light means that NB will not always be blocked to use cloak.
However, add a cast time to sorcerer means that sorcerer will completely lose a chance to protect themselves in dangerous situations.

The shield needs to go. Its being used to solo vet dungeon, trial bosses... that`s how good it is. Having a shield that is bigger than your hp should never be a thing. A hard cap for shields @ 40% hp or so would also fix it, even if they don`t add a cast time.

Sorcs will adapt and heal like everyone else or via crit surge.

1. Never heard that sorcerers with shield can do such things.
2. I can only accept shields can be critical.
3. Sorcerer has not solid self heals , even worse than NB. NB can sap and use his 'vampire‘ kind spells to heal and dps. Sorcerer only has one kind skill with a inner CD.
4. No doubt that nerf shields too much will force more people to leave rather any kind of good results

On your point #4 you suggest people will be forced to go. I would posit that many Templars who were inclined to leave have already done so over this exact issue. I certainly was not happy with the changes that passed to this skill. I also still find ways to enjoy the game, and I've got more of a 'long haul' mentality. I suspect anyone who plays a sorcerer (which I do as well) will leave more due to their mentality than an uncomfortable change.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Re: this
I have to stack CP and impen pieces to get any hope of crit resistance, but a sorc puts up a 12k shield and gets critical immunity? Bull

Don't other classes also have shields at various options either in class shields, annulment/harness or even thru cp trees?

Not as strong or maybe reliable as the sort maybe but still, seems like most classes can get a crit-stop shield too without worrying about impen.

Templar annul, blaze shield, reinforcement maybe.
DK forget the name of their shield plus the other.

NB don't recall one but too lazy to look it up.

*Blazing Shield is functionally very different than Obsidian Shield and Hardened Ward, such that they are no longer comparable skills as far as I'm concerned. The short duration, weakened magnitude, and low damage output (as well as investment/return you get by focusing on this skill) make Blazing Shield very different from those other two.
*NB has no shield but it mitigates differently with Blur (similar to the Medium Armor skill but magic-based) and Cloak, as well as its siphoning attacks.

Xsorus · March 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Re: this
I have to stack CP and impen pieces to get any hope of crit resistance, but a sorc puts up a 12k shield and gets critical immunity? Bull

Don't other classes also have shields at various options either in class shields, annulment/harness or even thru cp trees?

Not as strong or maybe reliable as the sort maybe but still, seems like most classes can get a crit-stop shield too without worrying about impen.

Templar annul, blaze shield, reinforcement maybe.
DK forget the name of their shield plus the other.

NB don't recall one but too lazy to look it up.

*Blazing Shield is functionally very different than Obsidian Shield and Hardened Ward, such that they are no longer comparable skills as far as I'm concerned. The short duration, weakened magnitude, and low damage output (as well as investment/return you get by focusing on this skill) make Blazing Shield very different from those other two.
*NB has no shield but it mitigates differently with Blur (similar to the Medium Armor skill but magic-based) and Cloak, as well as its siphoning attacks.

I've seen some nasty Templars running 60k HP lately spamming Blazing Shield....I'm pretty sure they run it with Fsalla Set

FriedEggSandwich · March 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

OK shield users here are the options.

1. Add a cast time to some such as healing ward and harden ward.
2. Add them to the major minor system only allowing 1 major shield from skills and one minor shield from secondary effect such as armor effect such as whitestrakes
3. You can have only one shield active at once period and you can not recast or gain a new shield till the one you have now expires.

Your three options for shields pick one.

I like option 2 best. I would have chosen option 3 but you said no recast, which is how hardened ward used to work, and it was weak.

FriedEggSandwich · March 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Re: this
I have to stack CP and impen pieces to get any hope of crit resistance, but a sorc puts up a 12k shield and gets critical immunity? Bull

Don't other classes also have shields at various options either in class shields, annulment/harness or even thru cp trees?

Not as strong or maybe reliable as the sort maybe but still, seems like most classes can get a crit-stop shield too without worrying about impen.

Templar annul, blaze shield, reinforcement maybe.
DK forget the name of their shield plus the other.

NB don't recall one but too lazy to look it up.

I'm a sorc and I stack 5x impen. Good sorcs will cos they understand their ward(s) will get broken.

FriedEggSandwich · March 2016

To all the "srocs need to l2p"ers in this thread; I believe the op wants shield stacking addressed but just doesn't want it to be a cast time solution. Help them out a bit ffs instead of giving your age away.

chongguang · March 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

To all the "srocs need to l2p"ers in this thread; I believe the op wants shield stacking addressed but just doesn't want it to be a cast time solution. Help them out a bit ffs instead of giving your age away.

My appreciation to you for understanding me well. Yeah, I want shield stacking be addressed if it is really op in the game. However, this also must be done in very carefully, otherwise bad moves will kill sorcerers in both PVP and PVE. A very typical example of 'bad move " is to add a cast time on shields.

My opinion is the same as sypher said in his today's stream, let shield be critible and increase the size of damage it can take (even a slightly increase can be acceptable).

FriedEggSandwich · March 2016

chongguang wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

To all the "srocs need to l2p"ers in this thread; I believe the op wants shield stacking addressed but just doesn't want it to be a cast time solution. Help them out a bit ffs instead of giving your age away.

My appreciation to you for understanding me well. Yeah, I want shield stacking be addressed if it is really op in the game. However, this also must be done in very carefully, otherwise bad moves will kill sorcerers in both PVP and PVE. A very typical example of 'bad move " is to add a cast time on shields.

My opinion is the same as sypher said in his today's stream, let shield be critible and increase the size of damage it can take (even a slightly increase can be acceptable).

I'm not for or against crittable shields, but for single shields (like hardened ward) to remain viable when used by themselves (not combined with other wards) then shield stacking needs to go. Problems will arise if hardened ward, harness magicka or healing ward get balanced as part of a combined shield.

Edit: and if they are balanced individually then they will always be OP when combined. Unless a new mechanic is added to weaken them when combined.

Ankael07 · March 2016

Does no one consider people who doesnt stack shields? Most these proposed changes would be the death of my pvp experiance

FriedEggSandwich · March 2016

Ankael07 wrote: »

Does no one consider people who doesnt stack shields? Most these proposed changes would be the death of my pvp experiance

This is exactly the point I was trying to make; as long as shield stacking is accepted single shield users get shafted.

Edit: Even measures already introduced to combat shields penalise single shield users as much as shield stackers i.e shiledbreaker set. This will do the same damage to someone with a 4k ward as someone with a combined 17k ward.

Wreuntzylla · March 2016

chongguang wrote: »

Reykice wrote: »

chongguang wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Or the sorcs will learn how to play, like every other class has. The 3sec destealth was going to be the doom of all NBs, they adjusted and barely hear a peep out of them anymore.

IMO these are two different stories. As not everyone brings mage light means that NB will not always be blocked to use cloak.
However, add a cast time to sorcerer means that sorcerer will completely lose a chance to protect themselves in dangerous situations.

The shield needs to go. Its being used to solo vet dungeon, trial bosses... that`s how good it is. Having a shield that is bigger than your hp should never be a thing. A hard cap for shields @ 40% hp or so would also fix it, even if they don`t add a cast time.

Sorcs will adapt and heal like everyone else or via crit surge.

1. Never heard that sorcerers with shield can do such things.
2. I can only accept shields can be critical.
3. Sorcerer has not solid self heals , even worse than NB. NB can sap and use his 'vampire‘ kind spells to heal and dps. Sorcerer only has one kind skill with a inner CD.
4. No doubt that nerf shields too much will force more people to leave rather any kind of good results

Don't know about you, but with the TG patch my sorc gained the best heal in the game.... without having to cast it....

Seriously, I play all 4 classes at V16 and my sorcs are by far the easiest, most durable, highest dps toons. I'm not sure if you folks realize how much your complaints come across as entitled whining. You simply cannot play a sorc and say you are skilled in the current state of the game. It's that easy in comparison to other classes.

Waffennacht · March 2016

edit: I wouldn't mind major minor