So they announce PVP arenas and battlegrounds are coming and noone talks about it?
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
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We'll take it as unsubstantiated opinion then.
I'm all in favour of ZOS fixing the PvP issues and adding more PvP content in PvP areas, but not PvPers exaggerating their numbers and importance.
Apparently you failed to see or remember the PVP promos for ESO. As Fengrush stated, it was for large scale pvp hence that was the main focus of their promotional videos. He doesn't need to say it, nor do I or anyone but the promotional videos they created were focused on that. Evidence?
Go to their Youtube channel and watch the promos from way back then.
I'm well aware of the videos, that's not what I was disputing - which was Fengrush's claim that most players bought the game for the large scale PvP, but he has since confirmed he meant most PvPers, not most players. That's the sort of difference that represents exaggeration unless clarified.
I wasnt trying to mislead or something.... it was a thread about BGs, and I wrote a couple paragraphs about Cyro and BGs/arenas and just said most people bought it for cyro large scale (not to come for BGs/arena). Its not to say the new content isnt good, but I consider having the main one functional to be of more importance. If it cant be, I dont see the other one gaining much traction or the games pvp being taken seriously.
I didn't think you were trying to mislead, hence my reference to the need to clarify rather than call out. I was perfectly happy to take your clarification at face value.0 -
Pirhana7_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I think at this point people are just hanging in there with ESO's PVP while they wait for Camelot Unchained.
Pretty much all the Endgame pvp crowd will move to Camelot Unchained because it is actually built for PVP with its engine that can have 200+ on the screen casting spells with no performance lost. Its the same 3way siege warfare game between Vikings, King Aurthers Knights, and Irish, celitc lore. It will also have RVR (alliance vs alliance) progression with NO PVE progression. Which is the big reason why PVPrs will like this game0 -
WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »Since it is a legitimate concern, can someone who is against Arenas and Battlegrounds tell me how it will make the game worse??
Look at swtor and wow. All focus on large scale pvp vanished after arenas were introduced and the pvp populace dwindled to nothing quickly. Its pretty simple really. Arenas are the death of popular mmo pvp.
SWTOR large scale battles were killed because the hero engine could not handle so many players on screen.
Ilum was a disaster and they admitted it. I have a video on YouTube showing it.1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »Since it is a legitimate concern, can someone who is against Arenas and Battlegrounds tell me how it will make the game worse??
Look at swtor and wow. All focus on large scale pvp vanished after arenas were introduced and the pvp populace dwindled to nothing quickly. Its pretty simple really. Arenas are the death of popular mmo pvp.
SWTOR large scale battles were killed because the hero engine could not handle so many players on screen.
Ilum was a disaster and they admitted it. I have a video on YouTube showing it.
Of course it was....BECAUSE THEY STOPPED TRYING TO FIX IT! They could have fixed it, but they didnt bother and went on to arenas, and then bam, pvp dead. The arena community is so toxic it is just simply ridiculous, no one wants to play with people like that. couple that with the fact that arenas are so outdated it is ridiculous, and that just murdered pvp period.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭mattymaats wrote: »Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »Since it is a legitimate concern, can someone who is against Arenas and Battlegrounds tell me how it will make the game worse??
Look at swtor and wow. All focus on large scale pvp vanished after arenas were introduced and the pvp populace dwindled to nothing quickly. Its pretty simple really. Arenas are the death of popular mmo pvp.
The only world pvp that used to happen on wow before the battle arenas come out was at Hillsbrad foothills which consisted of big groups of players rushing into each others town and being chased back to their own town. On rare occasions someone would muster a raid of players to storm Kalimoor but it would just be zerged back into the elf kingdoms. I do remember a few rare raids into the main cities but it was rare. I do not see how the battleground ruined pvp in wow as the pvp was pretty boring to start with and I played it from release date for a good few years. The battleground had to be introduced as WoW didn't have a pvp system and the world pvp was boring and if enough people rushed a main city it totally lagged the server forcing a restart most of the time.
EoS is different though as it already has a functioning pvp system in place so there's less of a reason to add battlegrounds and it will divide the players between the 2 systems so I can see how it might reduce the numbers in Cyrodill but maybe EoS want this to happen as it's cheaper than having to recode or upgrade hardware. I think it will be a nice addition as it will add something new to pvp and another area for people to try and wave around their Epeen to see who has a bigger one.
All I will say is if they are going to put in battleground/arenas then they had better do it bloody properly or not at all, with a proper ranking system in place and a reward system that's worth the time investment.
Arenas are not battlegrounds. Do people not know the difference?0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Am I the only one who enjoys SWTOR pvp? Hutt ball?
I still play swtor only for the pvp. The story is meh and pve is meh.
The battlegrounds in swtor are fun. The people are much less toxic than the arena community. I would be for battlegrounds or variations of battlegrounds, but for the love of sanguine NO arenas. Boring, outdated, and toxic people enjoy arenas. We dont need any of that.0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There isn't really any real good reason not to have some sort of arena combat, as far as I can tell. A lot people say "balance" but I don't really buy that, why would putting an equal amount of players against each other create imbalances? It's almost like ZOS is afraid of the amount of statistical data that could be used from arenas, to help balance the game..
The IC districts are worthless, make them into the small scale everyone wants.
Obviously, after Cyro's lag is fixed...........
Look at other games that have done it. Going from more numbers of players fighting to a smaller amount amplifies balance issues. In SWTOR right now, all 8 classes are viable in warzones. In arenas, 3 are actually competitive but I think 1 of those got needed out, another 3 are meh, and 2 are absolutely intolerable to play unless you're group actively protects the bell out of you.
Oh, and I too came to ESO for the PVP. Found the game awful in beta until I hit level 10. And it's the reason I linger is its the only game that's really doing it now with a good siege engine.
This. People wanting arenas are probably the ones that played the ultra fotm classes in swtor and wow and in this game as well tbh. If they played the classes that got ultra shafted in arenas they would have a different tone.
@laced @technohic
Could you guys give an example or prediction on how something would become unbalanced in ESO due to arenas?
I never played SWTOR or WoW so I can't relate to your posts.
Balancing issues that we already have would become 100 times worse in arenas. Lets look at SWTOR. Commando is the prime example. It is viable mostly in 8 v 8 battlegrounds, they support their team from a distance and can dish out tons of damage nd can hold their own with the help of the whole team while doing the objective, if you get gang banged once, no big deal, respawn, move on. Arenas on the other hand the commando is useless, no defensives what so ever, the class can blow up anyone if they are given an opening, but that never happens in arenas, they are made the number 1 target EVERY time. So in order to balance it, they would need some ridiculous defenses added in. That would make them GODS in battlegrounds or in open world pvp. See the problem? They would start changing things for arenas specifically and then everything else would get knocked out of whack. Commandos were already pretty godly in pve, so if they added super defenses to them to combat the problem they have in arenas, they would be the best class hands down. Arenas just cause way more problems than they are worth. They are only played by a minimal fraction of a percentage of people, and a lot of those people will insult you till the day they die if you dont spend your entire existance perfecting the class you play.0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »I think at this point people are just hanging in there with ESO's PVP while they wait for Camelot Unchained.
Pretty much all the Endgame pvp crowd will move to Camelot Unchained because it is actually built for PVP with its engine that can have 200+ on the screen casting spells with no performance lost. Its the same 3way siege warfare game between Vikings, King Aurthers Knights, and Irish, celitc lore. It will also have RVR (alliance vs alliance) progression with NO PVE progression. Which is the big reason why PVPrs will like this game
Everyone likes a game they haven't played yet!
Seriously, and I'm a big fan of Mark Jacobs, everyone was going to leave ESO for Wildstar and ArcheAge, just as they've all left apparently just recently for BDO. The fact is, they either didn't leave at all or they came back very quickly. Maybe CU will really be the one everyone leaves for never to return, but maybe not. Remember that everyone was also going to leave EQ for DAoC, and WoW for Warhammer Online, but that didn't happen either.0 -
Jultzy✭✭Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »Since it is a legitimate concern, can someone who is against Arenas and Battlegrounds tell me how it will make the game worse??
Look at swtor and wow. All focus on large scale pvp vanished after arenas were introduced and the pvp populace dwindled to nothing quickly. Its pretty simple really. Arenas are the death of popular mmo pvp.
Pretty sure ppl didn't quit playing battlegrounds in wow. People just generally quitted the game in mop and even more so in wod due to the game being heavely boring.
As far as I know there's a ton of players playing rated battlegrounds in wow and normal battleground queues are fairly fast.Jultzy Altmer Sorcerer (AD)Narjiha Bosmer Nightblade (AD)Jules Yaká Breton Sorcerer (DC)0 -
WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »Since it is a legitimate concern, can someone who is against Arenas and Battlegrounds tell me how it will make the game worse??
Look at swtor and wow. All focus on large scale pvp vanished after arenas were introduced and the pvp populace dwindled to nothing quickly. Its pretty simple really. Arenas are the death of popular mmo pvp.
SWTOR large scale battles were killed because the hero engine could not handle so many players on screen.
Ilum was a disaster and they admitted it. I have a video on YouTube showing it.
Of course it was....BECAUSE THEY STOPPED TRYING TO FIX IT! They could have fixed it, but they didnt bother and went on to arenas, and then bam, pvp dead. The arena community is so toxic it is just simply ridiculous, no one wants to play with people like that. couple that with the fact that arenas are so outdated it is ridiculous, and that just murdered pvp period.
I disagree and agree. I did arenas and I wasn't toxic player. In fact, my group of friends and myself enjoyed their PvP immensely. Toxic players exist every where. PvE, PvP, mobas, FPS, RTS, they're everywhere! You're never gonna get rid of them so everyone should stop trying and just ignore them.
It's very hard to fix something that is broken at the engine design. Not only is it hard, it costs a lot of time. And time is expensive.
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WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »I think at this point people are just hanging in there with ESO's PVP while they wait for Camelot Unchained.
Pretty much all the Endgame pvp crowd will move to Camelot Unchained because it is actually built for PVP with its engine that can have 200+ on the screen casting spells with no performance lost. Its the same 3way siege warfare game between Vikings, King Aurthers Knights, and Irish, celitc lore. It will also have RVR (alliance vs alliance) progression with NO PVE progression. Which is the big reason why PVPrs will like this game
Everyone likes a game they haven't played yet!
Seriously, and I'm a big fan of Mark Jacobs, everyone was going to leave ESO for Wildstar and ArcheAge, just as they've all left apparently just recently for BDO. The fact is, they either didn't leave at all or they came back very quickly. Maybe CU will really be the one everyone leaves for never to return, but maybe not. Remember that everyone was also going to leave EQ for DAoC, and WoW for Warhammer Online, but that didn't happen either.
I left WoW for Warhammer Online but their servers didn't want me playing the game so I had to go back to WoW
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »I think at this point people are just hanging in there with ESO's PVP while they wait for Camelot Unchained.
Pretty much all the Endgame pvp crowd will move to Camelot Unchained because it is actually built for PVP with its engine that can have 200+ on the screen casting spells with no performance lost. Its the same 3way siege warfare game between Vikings, King Aurthers Knights, and Irish, celitc lore. It will also have RVR (alliance vs alliance) progression with NO PVE progression. Which is the big reason why PVPrs will like this game
Everyone likes a game they haven't played yet!
Seriously, and I'm a big fan of Mark Jacobs, everyone was going to leave ESO for Wildstar and ArcheAge, just as they've all left apparently just recently for BDO. The fact is, they either didn't leave at all or they came back very quickly. Maybe CU will really be the one everyone leaves for never to return, but maybe not. Remember that everyone was also going to leave EQ for DAoC, and WoW for Warhammer Online, but that didn't happen either.
I left WoW for Warhammer Online but their servers didn't want me playing the game so I had to go back to WoW
Ah, understood. I played WAR but suffered greatly at the hands of the EU distributor (whose name I have erased from my memory) which is when Mark Jacobs really stepped up to the mark and got it sorted.0 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭There isn't really any real good reason not to have some sort of arena combat, as far as I can tell. A lot people say "balance" but I don't really buy that, why would putting an equal amount of players against each other create imbalances? It's almost like ZOS is afraid of the amount of statistical data that could be used from arenas, to help balance the game..
The IC districts are worthless, make them into the small scale everyone wants.
Obviously, after Cyro's lag is fixed...........
Look at other games that have done it. Going from more numbers of players fighting to a smaller amount amplifies balance issues. In SWTOR right now, all 8 classes are viable in warzones. In arenas, 3 are actually competitive but I think 1 of those got needed out, another 3 are meh, and 2 are absolutely intolerable to play unless you're group actively protects the bell out of you.
Oh, and I too came to ESO for the PVP. Found the game awful in beta until I hit level 10. And it's the reason I linger is its the only game that's really doing it now with a good siege engine.
This. People wanting arenas are probably the ones that played the ultra fotm classes in swtor and wow and in this game as well tbh. If they played the classes that got ultra shafted in arenas they would have a different tone.
@laced @technohic
Could you guys give an example or prediction on how something would become unbalanced in ESO due to arenas?
I never played SWTOR or WoW so I can't relate to your posts.
Balancing issues that we already have would become 100 times worse in arenas. Lets look at SWTOR. Commando is the prime example. It is viable mostly in 8 v 8 battlegrounds, they support their team from a distance and can dish out tons of damage nd can hold their own with the help of the whole team while doing the objective, if you get gang banged once, no big deal, respawn, move on. Arenas on the other hand the commando is useless, no defensives what so ever, the class can blow up anyone if they are given an opening, but that never happens in arenas, they are made the number 1 target EVERY time. So in order to balance it, they would need some ridiculous defenses added in. That would make them GODS in battlegrounds or in open world pvp. See the problem? They would start changing things for arenas specifically and then everything else would get knocked out of whack. Commandos were already pretty godly in pve, so if they added super defenses to them to combat the problem they have in arenas, they would be the best class hands down. Arenas just cause way more problems than they are worth. They are only played by a minimal fraction of a percentage of people, and a lot of those people will insult you till the day they die if you dont spend your entire existance perfecting the class you play.
I don't really see the comparison, sorry. Like I said I never played SWTOR.
Also, I may not know what the difference in arenas/battlegrounds are... I picture both as a small scale same number fight, some as objective some as tdm types..
I think it would be pretty obvious in ESO if there were 4v4's, a team of 4 magicka sorcs would pretty much be unstoppable. Seems like exposing the imbalances that already exist would be a good thing.."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations1 -
Lucious90✭✭✭There isn't really any real good reason not to have some sort of arena combat, as far as I can tell. A lot people say "balance" but I don't really buy that, why would putting an equal amount of players against each other create imbalances? It's almost like ZOS is afraid of the amount of statistical data that could be used from arenas, to help balance the game..
The IC districts are worthless, make them into the small scale everyone wants.
Obviously, after Cyro's lag is fixed...........
Look at other games that have done it. Going from more numbers of players fighting to a smaller amount amplifies balance issues. In SWTOR right now, all 8 classes are viable in warzones. In arenas, 3 are actually competitive but I think 1 of those got needed out, another 3 are meh, and 2 are absolutely intolerable to play unless you're group actively protects the bell out of you.
Oh, and I too came to ESO for the PVP. Found the game awful in beta until I hit level 10. And it's the reason I linger is its the only game that's really doing it now with a good siege engine.
This. People wanting arenas are probably the ones that played the ultra fotm classes in swtor and wow and in this game as well tbh. If they played the classes that got ultra shafted in arenas they would have a different tone.
@laced @technohic
Could you guys give an example or prediction on how something would become unbalanced in ESO due to arenas?
I never played SWTOR or WoW so I can't relate to your posts.
Balancing issues that we already have would become 100 times worse in arenas. Lets look at SWTOR. Commando is the prime example. It is viable mostly in 8 v 8 battlegrounds, they support their team from a distance and can dish out tons of damage nd can hold their own with the help of the whole team while doing the objective, if you get gang banged once, no big deal, respawn, move on. Arenas on the other hand the commando is useless, no defensives what so ever, the class can blow up anyone if they are given an opening, but that never happens in arenas, they are made the number 1 target EVERY time. So in order to balance it, they would need some ridiculous defenses added in. That would make them GODS in battlegrounds or in open world pvp. See the problem? They would start changing things for arenas specifically and then everything else would get knocked out of whack. Commandos were already pretty godly in pve, so if they added super defenses to them to combat the problem they have in arenas, they would be the best class hands down. Arenas just cause way more problems than they are worth. They are only played by a minimal fraction of a percentage of people, and a lot of those people will insult you till the day they die if you dont spend your entire existance perfecting the class you play.
I don't really see the comparison, sorry. Like I said I never played SWTOR.
Also, I may not know what the difference in arenas/battlegrounds are... I picture both as a small scale same number fight, some as objective some as tdm types..
I think it would be pretty obvious in ESO if there were 4v4's, a team of 4 magicka sorcs would pretty much be unstoppable. Seems like exposing the imbalances that already exist would be a good thing..
I dont think balancing would be a priority, just look at whats happening now. You will always have teams trying to run stupid combos, I remember double pally in WotLK in WoW was pretty brutal, or Mages where pretty dope as well at that time.
If for what ever reason ZoS decides "oh we want to work on class balance" I feel BG(8v8 and up) would be a better representation with the cause for balance, coupled with PvE. That may allow Arenas to fall right in line.Xbox/NA
Naturegoat - Stam Warden
Healgoat- Mag temp
Staticgoat- Stam Sorc0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There isn't really any real good reason not to have some sort of arena combat, as far as I can tell. A lot people say "balance" but I don't really buy that, why would putting an equal amount of players against each other create imbalances? It's almost like ZOS is afraid of the amount of statistical data that could be used from arenas, to help balance the game..
The IC districts are worthless, make them into the small scale everyone wants.
Obviously, after Cyro's lag is fixed...........
Look at other games that have done it. Going from more numbers of players fighting to a smaller amount amplifies balance issues. In SWTOR right now, all 8 classes are viable in warzones. In arenas, 3 are actually competitive but I think 1 of those got needed out, another 3 are meh, and 2 are absolutely intolerable to play unless you're group actively protects the bell out of you.
Oh, and I too came to ESO for the PVP. Found the game awful in beta until I hit level 10. And it's the reason I linger is its the only game that's really doing it now with a good siege engine.
This. People wanting arenas are probably the ones that played the ultra fotm classes in swtor and wow and in this game as well tbh. If they played the classes that got ultra shafted in arenas they would have a different tone.
@laced @technohic
Could you guys give an example or prediction on how something would become unbalanced in ESO due to arenas?
I never played SWTOR or WoW so I can't relate to your posts.
Balancing issues that we already have would become 100 times worse in arenas. Lets look at SWTOR. Commando is the prime example. It is viable mostly in 8 v 8 battlegrounds, they support their team from a distance and can dish out tons of damage nd can hold their own with the help of the whole team while doing the objective, if you get gang banged once, no big deal, respawn, move on. Arenas on the other hand the commando is useless, no defensives what so ever, the class can blow up anyone if they are given an opening, but that never happens in arenas, they are made the number 1 target EVERY time. So in order to balance it, they would need some ridiculous defenses added in. That would make them GODS in battlegrounds or in open world pvp. See the problem? They would start changing things for arenas specifically and then everything else would get knocked out of whack. Commandos were already pretty godly in pve, so if they added super defenses to them to combat the problem they have in arenas, they would be the best class hands down. Arenas just cause way more problems than they are worth. They are only played by a minimal fraction of a percentage of people, and a lot of those people will insult you till the day they die if you dont spend your entire existance perfecting the class you play.
I don't really see the comparison, sorry. Like I said I never played SWTOR.
Also, I may not know what the difference in arenas/battlegrounds are... I picture both as a small scale same number fight, some as objective some as tdm types..
I think it would be pretty obvious in ESO if there were 4v4's, a team of 4 magicka sorcs would pretty much be unstoppable. Seems like exposing the imbalances that already exist would be a good thing..
Its f2p. download it, jump into an arena as a commando. Youll see.0 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭There isn't really any real good reason not to have some sort of arena combat, as far as I can tell. A lot people say "balance" but I don't really buy that, why would putting an equal amount of players against each other create imbalances? It's almost like ZOS is afraid of the amount of statistical data that could be used from arenas, to help balance the game..
The IC districts are worthless, make them into the small scale everyone wants.
Obviously, after Cyro's lag is fixed...........
Look at other games that have done it. Going from more numbers of players fighting to a smaller amount amplifies balance issues. In SWTOR right now, all 8 classes are viable in warzones. In arenas, 3 are actually competitive but I think 1 of those got needed out, another 3 are meh, and 2 are absolutely intolerable to play unless you're group actively protects the bell out of you.
Oh, and I too came to ESO for the PVP. Found the game awful in beta until I hit level 10. And it's the reason I linger is its the only game that's really doing it now with a good siege engine.
This. People wanting arenas are probably the ones that played the ultra fotm classes in swtor and wow and in this game as well tbh. If they played the classes that got ultra shafted in arenas they would have a different tone.
@laced @technohic
Could you guys give an example or prediction on how something would become unbalanced in ESO due to arenas?
I never played SWTOR or WoW so I can't relate to your posts.
Balancing issues that we already have would become 100 times worse in arenas. Lets look at SWTOR. Commando is the prime example. It is viable mostly in 8 v 8 battlegrounds, they support their team from a distance and can dish out tons of damage nd can hold their own with the help of the whole team while doing the objective, if you get gang banged once, no big deal, respawn, move on. Arenas on the other hand the commando is useless, no defensives what so ever, the class can blow up anyone if they are given an opening, but that never happens in arenas, they are made the number 1 target EVERY time. So in order to balance it, they would need some ridiculous defenses added in. That would make them GODS in battlegrounds or in open world pvp. See the problem? They would start changing things for arenas specifically and then everything else would get knocked out of whack. Commandos were already pretty godly in pve, so if they added super defenses to them to combat the problem they have in arenas, they would be the best class hands down. Arenas just cause way more problems than they are worth. They are only played by a minimal fraction of a percentage of people, and a lot of those people will insult you till the day they die if you dont spend your entire existance perfecting the class you play.
I don't really see the comparison, sorry. Like I said I never played SWTOR.
Also, I may not know what the difference in arenas/battlegrounds are... I picture both as a small scale same number fight, some as objective some as tdm types..
I think it would be pretty obvious in ESO if there were 4v4's, a team of 4 magicka sorcs would pretty much be unstoppable. Seems like exposing the imbalances that already exist would be a good thing..
Its f2p. download it, jump into an arena as a commando. Youll see.
I'll pass, and remain unbeknownst to how it relates to ESO.Edited by SneaK on March 29, 2016 8:51PM"IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations0 -
Gothlander✭✭✭✭Are there going to be battle grounds or just arenas? I prefer battle grounds. That is all I used to do in WoW.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
TESO needs a wardrobe system badly. Something similar to WoW's tmog system would make this game one of the best mmorpg out there!0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gothlander wrote: »Are there going to be battle grounds or just arenas? I prefer battle grounds. That is all I used to do in WoW.
Well when asked he said "Battlegrounds and arenas...hmmm..yes they are coming and in development". So I assume that means both but who knows.0 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Of course, it's also possible that not as many people play this game (or any MMO for that matter) for the PvP as Forum posters would like everyone to believe.jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Isnt this what people have been waiting for? I dont see a single thread about the announcement. Arenas and battlegrounds are being worked on and are coming. Discuss.
Not trying to crap all over PvP enthusiasts; that's their bag, and they can have it. PvP isn't in my wheelhouse for a reason (I don't like it).
But I see threads all the time where the PvP-centric players are trying to convince the world that PvP in any game is the end-all-be-all.
It's highly possible that the lack of discussion is simply because there aren't as many of them as they'd like for everyone to believe.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!0 -
WalkingLegacy✭✭✭✭✭
✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »I think at this point people are just hanging in there with ESO's PVP while they wait for Camelot Unchained.
Pretty much all the Endgame pvp crowd will move to Camelot Unchained because it is actually built for PVP with its engine that can have 200+ on the screen casting spells with no performance lost. Its the same 3way siege warfare game between Vikings, King Aurthers Knights, and Irish, celitc lore. It will also have RVR (alliance vs alliance) progression with NO PVE progression. Which is the big reason why PVPrs will like this game
Everyone likes a game they haven't played yet!
Seriously, and I'm a big fan of Mark Jacobs, everyone was going to leave ESO for Wildstar and ArcheAge, just as they've all left apparently just recently for BDO. The fact is, they either didn't leave at all or they came back very quickly. Maybe CU will really be the one everyone leaves for never to return, but maybe not. Remember that everyone was also going to leave EQ for DAoC, and WoW for Warhammer Online, but that didn't happen either.
I left WoW for Warhammer Online but their servers didn't want me playing the game so I had to go back to WoW
Ah, understood. I played WAR but suffered greatly at the hands of the EU distributor (whose name I have erased from my memory) which is when Mark Jacobs really stepped up to the mark and got it sorted.
I hear really good things about Mark Jacobs and his master programmer on his team (Andrew?). CU could shape out to be great but early alpha has me unimpressed.
Matt Firor and Mark Jacobs go way back and I'm confused why ESO is so confused on its direction.
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fastolfv_ESO✭✭✭✭✭its both sad and funny to hear arenas and bgs are coming. I always said a game that fails at open world pvp always falls back on arenas to try and keep players playing for a little longer. If its true theyre changing focus to small man nonsense its basically the nail in the coffin for cyro. CU better turn out to be good2 -
BlackEar✭✭✭✭✭ITT: Unsubstantiated claims and belittlement. Abandon thread.
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jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I dont know they are changing focus to smaller pvp scenarios. Maybe just adding it as an option. Class balance i dont really see being any bigger issue than it is in cyrodill.0 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »
We'll take it as unsubstantiated opinion then.
I'm all in favour of ZOS fixing the PvP issues and adding more PvP content in PvP areas, but not PvPers exaggerating their numbers and importance.
Apparently you failed to see or remember the PVP promos for ESO. As Fengrush stated, it was for large scale pvp hence that was the main focus of their promotional videos. He doesn't need to say it, nor do I or anyone but the promotional videos they created were focused on that. Evidence?
Go to their Youtube channel and watch the promos from way back then.
I'm well aware of the videos, that's not what I was disputing - which was Fengrush's claim that most players bought the game for the large scale PvP, but he has since confirmed he meant most PvPers, not most players. That's the sort of difference that represents exaggeration unless clarified.
I wasnt trying to mislead or something.... it was a thread about BGs, and I wrote a couple paragraphs about Cyro and BGs/arenas and just said most people bought it for cyro large scale (not to come for BGs/arena). Its not to say the new content isnt good, but I consider having the main one functional to be of more importance. If it cant be, I dont see the other one gaining much traction or the games pvp being taken seriously.
I do not agree the main component of ESO is pvp. Seems to me if the main aspect of the game was pvp there woudlnt be so many PVE zones.
Yea I mean - I dont even know how this post relates to the last one I just made, Im not remotely talking about PVP vs PVE positions in this game. As far as when the game released - trying to weigh the amount of zones vs the focus of the game isnt really relevant. You dont need many zones to have PVP be a focal point of the game given their design. They didnt want open world PVP in their zones so they put in Cyro, which is a single massive one. To say PVP wasnt important then because there is one zone wouldnt be an accurate one. They likely intended to grow and do a lot more in Cyrodiil - they just dont have the resources for it now and they changed direction.
But Id disagree to your unrelated reply that the game was geared to be a PVE MMO with a dash of PVP. If they never ruined the performance this game could have a much different PVP environment with a huge playerbase. People just dont stomach bad performance and guilds cannot survive the huge changes they made. They quit and left.3 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Noone is saying pvp was not important or isnt still important. Just not the main focus.Edited by jamesharv2005ub17_ESO on March 29, 2016 9:23PM0 -
Pirhana7_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »I think at this point people are just hanging in there with ESO's PVP while they wait for Camelot Unchained.
Pretty much all the Endgame pvp crowd will move to Camelot Unchained because it is actually built for PVP with its engine that can have 200+ on the screen casting spells with no performance lost. Its the same 3way siege warfare game between Vikings, King Aurthers Knights, and Irish, celitc lore. It will also have RVR (alliance vs alliance) progression with NO PVE progression. Which is the big reason why PVPrs will like this game
Everyone likes a game they haven't played yet!
Seriously, and I'm a big fan of Mark Jacobs, everyone was going to leave ESO for Wildstar and ArcheAge, just as they've all left apparently just recently for BDO. The fact is, they either didn't leave at all or they came back very quickly. Maybe CU will really be the one everyone leaves for never to return, but maybe not. Remember that everyone was also going to leave EQ for DAoC, and WoW for Warhammer Online, but that didn't happen either.
I completely understand what your saying and I will agree in alot of those cases, except for Wildstar, I dont think anyone took that game seriously... The only difference with what I said is that it is not referring to EVERYONE leaving a game for the next like you see eveyone saying in the past.
In this case Its the PVP seige warfare people leaving a 50/50 PVE / PVP game with massive PVP performance issues for.... a PVP seige warfare game designed JUST for PVP seige warfare.. Im just talking about that certain group of PVP players. But I am sure they will bring alot of friends and guildies whousually like more than just PVP.
I think ESO will still do fine with the PVE crowd, ES fans, and some of the mixed PVE/PVP crowd. But that endgame PVP crowd, especially seige warfare fans will move to CU along with every ex DAOC, Darkfall and Warhammer player. I am sure you will also see this exact same thing happening to GW2 with the WvW players moving to CU.Edited by Pirhana7_ESO on March 29, 2016 10:58PM0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »I think at this point people are just hanging in there with ESO's PVP while they wait for Camelot Unchained.
Pretty much all the Endgame pvp crowd will move to Camelot Unchained because it is actually built for PVP with its engine that can have 200+ on the screen casting spells with no performance lost. Its the same 3way siege warfare game between Vikings, King Aurthers Knights, and Irish, celitc lore. It will also have RVR (alliance vs alliance) progression with NO PVE progression. Which is the big reason why PVPrs will like this game
Everyone likes a game they haven't played yet!
Seriously, and I'm a big fan of Mark Jacobs, everyone was going to leave ESO for Wildstar and ArcheAge, just as they've all left apparently just recently for BDO. The fact is, they either didn't leave at all or they came back very quickly. Maybe CU will really be the one everyone leaves for never to return, but maybe not. Remember that everyone was also going to leave EQ for DAoC, and WoW for Warhammer Online, but that didn't happen either.
I completely understand what your saying and I will agree in alot of those cases, except for Wildstar, I dont think anyone took that game seriously... The only difference with what I said is that it is not referring to EVERYONE leaving a game for the next like you see eveyone saying in the past.
In this case Its the PVP seige warfare people leaving a 50/50 PVE / PVP game with massive PVP performance issues for.... a PVP seige warfare game designed JUST for PVP seige warfare.. Im just talking about that certain group of PVP players. But I am sure they will bring alot of friends and guildies whousually like more than just PVP.
I think ESO will still do fine with the PVE crowd, ES fans, and some of the mixed PVE/PVP crowd. But that endgame PVP crowd, especially seige warfare fans will move to CU along with every ex DAOC, Darkfall and Warhammer player. I am sure you will also see this exact same thing happening to GW2 with the WvW players moving to CU.
You may well be right, and I wasn't for a moment suggesting I thought you meant everyone would move on, just most of the PvP crowd. My point was simply that people always talk that way about the next big thing, and then it turns out to have just as many issues as the game they've left and so they return. We'll see how CU turns out, it's a brave venture in many ways and good luck to them if they can live up to all the ex-DAoCers' expectations (I played that game briefly but was really an EQ fan in the early days, and then of course mistakes were made by Mythic and most players left DAoC anyway). Either way, I agree with you that ESO will do just fine.1 -
Pirhana7_ESO✭✭✭✭✭WalkingLegacy wrote: »WalkingLegacy wrote: »Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »I think at this point people are just hanging in there with ESO's PVP while they wait for Camelot Unchained.
Pretty much all the Endgame pvp crowd will move to Camelot Unchained because it is actually built for PVP with its engine that can have 200+ on the screen casting spells with no performance lost. Its the same 3way siege warfare game between Vikings, King Aurthers Knights, and Irish, celitc lore. It will also have RVR (alliance vs alliance) progression with NO PVE progression. Which is the big reason why PVPrs will like this game
Everyone likes a game they haven't played yet!
Seriously, and I'm a big fan of Mark Jacobs, everyone was going to leave ESO for Wildstar and ArcheAge, just as they've all left apparently just recently for BDO. The fact is, they either didn't leave at all or they came back very quickly. Maybe CU will really be the one everyone leaves for never to return, but maybe not. Remember that everyone was also going to leave EQ for DAoC, and WoW for Warhammer Online, but that didn't happen either.
I left WoW for Warhammer Online but their servers didn't want me playing the game so I had to go back to WoW
Ah, understood. I played WAR but suffered greatly at the hands of the EU distributor (whose name I have erased from my memory) which is when Mark Jacobs really stepped up to the mark and got it sorted.
I hear really good things about Mark Jacobs and his master programmer on his team (Andrew?). CU could shape out to be great but early alpha has me unimpressed.
Matt Firor and Mark Jacobs go way back and I'm confused why ESO is so confused on its direction.
Remember Their Alpha was just basically the engine running, everything else is basically a place holder like animations, abilities, graphics. have seen what it looks like this week? compeltely different game, take a look when beta starts this weekend0 -
pecheckler✭✭✭✭✭People who wanted structured PvP faded away quite a while ago or only play the game for PvE, then they are off to PvP in games which already have good balanced structured PvP.
Zenimax has ignored this request for so long that balance is going to be a major concern for everyone. This is why I hope we don't get no 2v2, 5v5, or even 10v10 matches. 15v15 structured as an absolute minimum. Maybe up to 50v50. That way all the nuances of individual skills, stats, and such are not a balance concern... not as much anyway. Plus it will be more attractive to the existing player base who enjoy the classic DAoC archetype.
I feel new PvP options will need clear victory conditions and reasonable match length 10 minutes to a couple hours.
Back when this game launched and for over a year I regularly preached about more structured PvP, and i'm very glad it's coming. Just don't release it until it's finished. Get it done right before it's added to the live game. Let it live on the PTS for a good long time.
A suggestion for Zenimax: Sent out e-mail surveys on this topic to all customers. Ask them what they want in a new PvP offering. Use a succinct subject line so ex-players (with potential to return) do not just quickly delete the message.End the tedious inventory management game.0 -
Techkey1✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »WalkingLegacy wrote: »They've been saying this for a while. What's your point?
They have never verified before today that battlegrounds and arenas are in active development. Its only been rumor from the player base. If you mean before IC came out when the mentioned smaller battles they were talking about IC.
I think you just missed it. I am fairly sure battlegrounds were already officially announced by ZOS as something that's eventually coming, before today.
As for the battlegrounds, they can be fun, but only if ZOS either disallows pre-made groups from entering them(allowing only solo queueing), or else only allows pre-made groups to face other pre-made groups. Anything else results in some very frustratingly one-sided matches (played SWTOR for a couple years, plenty of experience with that)
I agree, I have experience the same in SWTOR as well. Solo queing and premade group vs group would be nice. The hardest thing to do with something like this is to maintain a good balance. Which is why I would like to see such only if it is well tested and polished.CP 477 | Dark Elf | Dragon Knight DPS | Ebonheart Pact | Solo Player | No alts
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