clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »Client : a person or group that uses the professional advice or services of a lawyer, accountant, advertising agency, architect, etc.
Consumer : a person or organization that uses a commodity or service.
scorpiodog wrote: »If the OP actually has a business (which I seriously doubt),I can imagine that, with his attitude, it's not a very successful one. What I really believe is this is the best stealth-troll post ever.
Just because some people are wondering ...
I work in a profession and I have a side business. In both I provide specialized problem solving services that many need, but few have the patience, knowledge and organization to solve. I make enough money in my profession to live the way I want to live, and my side business is "gravy". This is different from ESO as a product, so it's not really relevant to the discussion.
But yes, in my current situation I try to get rid of A-hole clients, cheap *** and shady characters all the time. I quote unreasonable amounts, arbitrarily raise their bill, don't answer if they leave rude messages, don't reschedule people who habitually don't show for appointments, or just tell them how to do it themselves but leave out a few tricks that they need to actually do it. Don't get me wrong - *I* am never rude or unprofessional, but I know how to get rid of unwanted clients. Also I very often choose not to pursue a potential "whale" client if things don't feel right.
That give me more time and less stress to focus on clients who don't waste my time and I can solve more problems, resulting in more happy clients. It's not even really about money - If someone is nice and in trouble but doesn't have the money, I give them a break with a low income-adjusted fee and even let them set up a payment plan.
Again, not really relevant to the discussion and I don't think ESO should do things "my way", but a few people were asking and it is what it is.
In years past I've been a manager over about 30 people and constantly had to balance the "cost -vs- conflicting customer demands" issues, and I've also had to fire people because of BS customer politics and the head honcho didn't want to face the employees himself when they start crying, begging or wanting to fight. IMO being a manager sucks for so many reasons the money isn't worth it.
As a lad in the 90's I also did a long stint teaching English in Europe. Fun stuff. There, too I had both a day job teaching 20-ish students, and a side business teaching mostly private lessons to businessmen and executives.
But I don't think any of this means my OP is any more or less true or untrue.
Or ... maybe I AM the best STEALTH TROLL EVER. Yeah whatever (sarcasm).
I think it continues to be a good discussion for people who actually read it.
Interesting! In my field, no response means no business as I take my services elsewhere. Example:
- I specify architectural lighting. My clients are architects yet I jump fences to meet with project owners. I specify manufacturers I know can supply a product within a 4-6 weeks lead-time after submittal reviews are approved.
- if a client doesn't get a fixture in 4-6 weeks, I get a nasty call. You cant ignore it because projects work on strict schedules with signed proposals and documents. Client also loses money on rents, contractors force additional service fees, etc if a project is late.
- my field differs from game design in that there's a physical product integrated with a design. But there are also strict signed contracts to follow; failure to meet design codes or services clients signed for result in lawsuits or loss of future work.
So I have more at stake and more protections to insure projects meet 100% completion.
My grip with gaming is that players do not have the same protections as a pure consumer or pure client; our role as purchaser tilts between one who uses a software service and one that buys a product. Because of this, gamers are forced to use their wallet as voice, and I find that very abusive within a healthy consumer based system.
scorpiodog wrote: »Interesting! In my field, no response means no business as I take my services elsewhere. Example:
- I specify architectural lighting. My clients are architects yet I jump fences to meet with project owners. I specify manufacturers I know can supply a product within a 4-6 weeks lead-time after submittal reviews are approved.
- if a client doesn't get a fixture in 4-6 weeks, I get a nasty call. You cant ignore it because projects work on strict schedules with signed proposals and documents. Client also loses money on rents, contractors force additional service fees, etc if a project is late.
- my field differs from game design in that there's a physical product integrated with a design. But there are also strict signed contracts to follow; failure to meet design codes or services clients signed for result in lawsuits or loss of future work.
So I have more at stake and more protections to insure projects meet 100% completion.
My grip with gaming is that players do not have the same protections as a pure consumer or pure client; our role as purchaser tilts between one who uses a software service and one that buys a product. Because of this, gamers are forced to use their wallet as voice, and I find that very abusive within a healthy consumer based system.
Of course I also make sure my projects are 100% complete - which is why I screen clients. I'm sure you don't take EVERY person who walks in of the street.
@Minno
So let's take this analogy:
What would you do if a client demanded you fire one of your managers because the new state-of the art LED lighting he recommended didn't come out as good as the client thought it should and was too bright and focused. It was partly the manager's fault, but also a very tricky project in a new area of lighting still developing and the Manager is otherwise highly skilled.
Then the client who has a youtube video publicly trashes your company and tries to get other clients to leave, and makes more demands about how your company is run and how you should prioritize your workload, what features you should offer clients, and a slew of other things that are technically impossible because the technology in that area is still developing.
scorpiodog wrote: »Interesting! In my field, no response means no business as I take my services elsewhere. Example:
- I specify architectural lighting. My clients are architects yet I jump fences to meet with project owners. I specify manufacturers I know can supply a product within a 4-6 weeks lead-time after submittal reviews are approved.
- if a client doesn't get a fixture in 4-6 weeks, I get a nasty call. You cant ignore it because projects work on strict schedules with signed proposals and documents. Client also loses money on rents, contractors force additional service fees, etc if a project is late.
- my field differs from game design in that there's a physical product integrated with a design. But there are also strict signed contracts to follow; failure to meet design codes or services clients signed for result in lawsuits or loss of future work.
So I have more at stake and more protections to insure projects meet 100% completion.
My grip with gaming is that players do not have the same protections as a pure consumer or pure client; our role as purchaser tilts between one who uses a software service and one that buys a product. Because of this, gamers are forced to use their wallet as voice, and I find that very abusive within a healthy consumer based system.
Of course I also make sure my projects are 100% complete - which is why I screen clients. I'm sure you don't take EVERY person who walks in of the street.
@Minno
So let's take this analogy:
What would you do if a client demanded you fire one of your managers because the new state-of the art LED lighting he recommended didn't come out as good as the client thought it should and was too bright and focused. It was partly the manager's fault, but also a very tricky project in a new area of lighting still developing and the Manager is otherwise highly skilled.
Then the client who has a youtube video publicly trashes your company and tries to get other clients to leave, and makes more demands about how your company is run and how you should prioritize your workload, what features you should offer clients, and a slew of other things that are technically impossible because the technology in that area is still developing.
That anology doesn't work. As a professional I'm not submitting a design to a client that doesn't work as per my design intent.
If the LED fixture doesn't perform, I'll find out from a fixture sample way before Construction Documents are issued. And if it's super-experimental, I'll use it on small jobs before using it on my best clients/projects.
If any of my final work doesn't match the expectation of my clients, I throw bro-bono work/try to release scoped work in less time to compensate. But I don't make it a habit to initially release buggy LED fixtures that fry under normal operating hours...
And most of all, I tell my clients if the design requires an addendum or extra week of work prior to submission.
scorpiodog wrote: »Interesting! In my field, no response means no business as I take my services elsewhere. Example:
- I specify architectural lighting. My clients are architects yet I jump fences to meet with project owners. I specify manufacturers I know can supply a product within a 4-6 weeks lead-time after submittal reviews are approved.
- if a client doesn't get a fixture in 4-6 weeks, I get a nasty call. You cant ignore it because projects work on strict schedules with signed proposals and documents. Client also loses money on rents, contractors force additional service fees, etc if a project is late.
- my field differs from game design in that there's a physical product integrated with a design. But there are also strict signed contracts to follow; failure to meet design codes or services clients signed for result in lawsuits or loss of future work.
So I have more at stake and more protections to insure projects meet 100% completion.
My grip with gaming is that players do not have the same protections as a pure consumer or pure client; our role as purchaser tilts between one who uses a software service and one that buys a product. Because of this, gamers are forced to use their wallet as voice, and I find that very abusive within a healthy consumer based system.
Of course I also make sure my projects are 100% complete - which is why I screen clients. I'm sure you don't take EVERY person who walks in of the street.
@Minno
So let's take this analogy:
What would you do if a client demanded you fire one of your managers because the new state-of the art LED lighting he recommended didn't come out as good as the client thought it should and was too bright and focused. It was partly the manager's fault, but also a very tricky project in a new area of lighting still developing and the Manager is otherwise highly skilled.
Then the client who has a youtube video publicly trashes your company and tries to get other clients to leave, and makes more demands about how your company is run and how you should prioritize your workload, what features you should offer clients, and a slew of other things that are technically impossible because the technology in that area is still developing.
That anology doesn't work. As a professional I'm not submitting a design to a client that doesn't work as per my design intent.
If the LED fixture doesn't perform, I'll find out from a fixture sample way before Construction Documents are issued. And if it's super-experimental, I'll use it on small jobs before using it on my best clients/projects.
If any of my final work doesn't match the expectation of my clients, I throw bro-bono work/try to release scoped work in less time to compensate. But I don't make it a habit to initially release buggy LED fixtures that fry under normal operating hours...
And most of all, I tell my clients if the design requires an addendum or extra week of work prior to submission.
+1 ZOS needs to hire this person.
scorpiodog wrote: »I see so many absurd comments on this forum and in Youtube videos I feel the need for a basic lesson in the realities of Business:
People invest in a business to make money. Yes, it would be nice if any company actually cared more about their customers than their bottom line, but that just isn't going to happen. Whole Foods, WallMart, Blizzard, Wizzards of the Coast - they all operate with shareholders as their first, second, and third priority. At best they try to PRETEND they care about you more than their bottom line, but they don't. If you can' accept that you have a very disappointing future ahead of you. Heck, even Greenpeace is more concerned about revenues than actually solving environmental problems and they aren't even a for-profit organization. Try telling Greenpeace how they can improve and see how far you get, lmao.
Every Cost and Risk must be assessed for expected gain "It would be cool if" is not a reason to expend R&D. If you want a company to change something, you have to explain how that up-front expenditure will turn a profit.
Purchasing a product does not give you any "say" Try writing a strongly worded letter to any fast food joint that you are a customer and as such, you suggest they use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg lettuce. There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger - no question at all, but that doesn't mean they will do what you say just because you bought a few burgers there. Pick any other company and any other product and it is the same - just because you purchase a product does not mean you have ANY say in management decisions, marketing, right to protest on their property against them, or whatever.
Freedom of speech is a right, but so is refusal of service Frankly if someone comes to my place of business IRL and starts loudly complaining I show them the door. If they have legitimate concerns and bring them up in a mature way, I deal with them. But if they start getting an attitude or think I owe them anything they can bring their unprofitable problems to my competitors and good riddance. You are customers, not members of a cooperative.
Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.
If you could do it better, you would have alreadyThere may be a few ESO customers who can put together million-dollar deals and convince investors to put money into a "cool idea" for a video game, but more than likely if they cold they would have already and we would be playing your game. That means that in all likelihood your "cool idea" is only that - cool - but not profitable or technically workable.
The customer is always right Hahahahahahaha - HA! If you actually believe companies when they tell you this, well ... let's just say I never want to eat in a restaurant with you. You probably don't realize the crimes against humanity that are being inflicted upon your seven-course meal when you send your soup back for being too hot.
Now, nothing in this post is meant to say that legitimate concerns and problems are not valid reasons to complain - submit a ticket and it will either be solved or it won't and then you can make a decision to leave or to stay. I'm just tired of seeing so much MMO VETERAN CRYBABY talk. If you are going to leave because your every whim isn't catered to - then leave. Nobody probably cares because you are a problem customer and worst sin of all, unprofitable. Stop blowing through a year's worth of good RPG content in less than a week and then complaining no one is making content to meet your special snowflake needs. And stop talking about you were here "from the beginning". Yeah, and I played Daggerfall in the 1990s - no one cares if you started ESO in 2014 or how many thousands of hours you've played since then. Right now you're not helping.
scorpiodog wrote: »I see so many absurd comments on this forum and in Youtube videos I feel the need for a basic lesson in the realities of Business:
People invest in a business to make money. Yes, it would be nice if any company actually cared more about their customers than their bottom line, but that just isn't going to happen. Whole Foods, WallMart, Blizzard, Wizzards of the Coast - they all operate with shareholders as their first, second, and third priority. At best they try to PRETEND they care about you more than their bottom line, but they don't. If you can' accept that you have a very disappointing future ahead of you. Heck, even Greenpeace is more concerned about revenues than actually solving environmental problems and they aren't even a for-profit organization. Try telling Greenpeace how they can improve and see how far you get, lmao.
Every Cost and Risk must be assessed for expected gain "It would be cool if" is not a reason to expend R&D. If you want a company to change something, you have to explain how that up-front expenditure will turn a profit.
Purchasing a product does not give you any "say" Try writing a strongly worded letter to any fast food joint that you are a customer and as such, you suggest they use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg lettuce. There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger - no question at all, but that doesn't mean they will do what you say just because you bought a few burgers there. Pick any other company and any other product and it is the same - just because you purchase a product does not mean you have ANY say in management decisions, marketing, right to protest on their property against them, or whatever.
Freedom of speech is a right, but so is refusal of service Frankly if someone comes to my place of business IRL and starts loudly complaining I show them the door. If they have legitimate concerns and bring them up in a mature way, I deal with them. But if they start getting an attitude or think I owe them anything they can bring their unprofitable problems to my competitors and good riddance. You are customers, not members of a cooperative.
Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.
If you could do it better, you would have alreadyThere may be a few ESO customers who can put together million-dollar deals and convince investors to put money into a "cool idea" for a video game, but more than likely if they cold they would have already and we would be playing your game. That means that in all likelihood your "cool idea" is only that - cool - but not profitable or technically workable.
The customer is always right Hahahahahahaha - HA! If you actually believe companies when they tell you this, well ... let's just say I never want to eat in a restaurant with you. You probably don't realize the crimes against humanity that are being inflicted upon your seven-course meal when you send your soup back for being too hot.
Now, nothing in this post is meant to say that legitimate concerns and problems are not valid reasons to complain - submit a ticket and it will either be solved or it won't and then you can make a decision to leave or to stay. I'm just tired of seeing so much MMO VETERAN CRYBABY talk. If you are going to leave because your every whim isn't catered to - then leave. Nobody probably cares because you are a problem customer and worst sin of all, unprofitable. Stop blowing through a year's worth of good RPG content in less than a week and then complaining no one is making content to meet your special snowflake needs. And stop talking about you were here "from the beginning". Yeah, and I played Daggerfall in the 1990s - no one cares if you started ESO in 2014 or how many thousands of hours you've played since then. Right now you're not helping.
This might be true in America but in The Netherlands if you dont deliver your promise you are out of bussines fast i dont know about the rest of Europe but i think its pretty much the same in germany and uk
scorpiodog wrote: »scorpiodog wrote: »I see so many absurd comments on this forum and in Youtube videos I feel the need for a basic lesson in the realities of Business:
People invest in a business to make money. Yes, it would be nice if any company actually cared more about their customers than their bottom line, but that just isn't going to happen. Whole Foods, WallMart, Blizzard, Wizzards of the Coast - they all operate with shareholders as their first, second, and third priority. At best they try to PRETEND they care about you more than their bottom line, but they don't. If you can' accept that you have a very disappointing future ahead of you. Heck, even Greenpeace is more concerned about revenues than actually solving environmental problems and they aren't even a for-profit organization. Try telling Greenpeace how they can improve and see how far you get, lmao.
Every Cost and Risk must be assessed for expected gain "It would be cool if" is not a reason to expend R&D. If you want a company to change something, you have to explain how that up-front expenditure will turn a profit.
Purchasing a product does not give you any "say" Try writing a strongly worded letter to any fast food joint that you are a customer and as such, you suggest they use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg lettuce. There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger - no question at all, but that doesn't mean they will do what you say just because you bought a few burgers there. Pick any other company and any other product and it is the same - just because you purchase a product does not mean you have ANY say in management decisions, marketing, right to protest on their property against them, or whatever.
Freedom of speech is a right, but so is refusal of service Frankly if someone comes to my place of business IRL and starts loudly complaining I show them the door. If they have legitimate concerns and bring them up in a mature way, I deal with them. But if they start getting an attitude or think I owe them anything they can bring their unprofitable problems to my competitors and good riddance. You are customers, not members of a cooperative.
Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.
If you could do it better, you would have alreadyThere may be a few ESO customers who can put together million-dollar deals and convince investors to put money into a "cool idea" for a video game, but more than likely if they cold they would have already and we would be playing your game. That means that in all likelihood your "cool idea" is only that - cool - but not profitable or technically workable.
The customer is always right Hahahahahahaha - HA! If you actually believe companies when they tell you this, well ... let's just say I never want to eat in a restaurant with you. You probably don't realize the crimes against humanity that are being inflicted upon your seven-course meal when you send your soup back for being too hot.
Now, nothing in this post is meant to say that legitimate concerns and problems are not valid reasons to complain - submit a ticket and it will either be solved or it won't and then you can make a decision to leave or to stay. I'm just tired of seeing so much MMO VETERAN CRYBABY talk. If you are going to leave because your every whim isn't catered to - then leave. Nobody probably cares because you are a problem customer and worst sin of all, unprofitable. Stop blowing through a year's worth of good RPG content in less than a week and then complaining no one is making content to meet your special snowflake needs. And stop talking about you were here "from the beginning". Yeah, and I played Daggerfall in the 1990s - no one cares if you started ESO in 2014 or how many thousands of hours you've played since then. Right now you're not helping.
This might be true in America but in The Netherlands if you dont deliver your promise you are out of bussines fast i dont know about the rest of Europe but i think its pretty much the same in germany and uk
So Windows 95 was never released in the Netherlands?
Interesting
scorpiodog wrote: »scorpiodog wrote: »I see so many absurd comments on this forum and in Youtube videos I feel the need for a basic lesson in the realities of Business:
People invest in a business to make money. Yes, it would be nice if any company actually cared more about their customers than their bottom line, but that just isn't going to happen. Whole Foods, WallMart, Blizzard, Wizzards of the Coast - they all operate with shareholders as their first, second, and third priority. At best they try to PRETEND they care about you more than their bottom line, but they don't. If you can' accept that you have a very disappointing future ahead of you. Heck, even Greenpeace is more concerned about revenues than actually solving environmental problems and they aren't even a for-profit organization. Try telling Greenpeace how they can improve and see how far you get, lmao.
Every Cost and Risk must be assessed for expected gain "It would be cool if" is not a reason to expend R&D. If you want a company to change something, you have to explain how that up-front expenditure will turn a profit.
Purchasing a product does not give you any "say" Try writing a strongly worded letter to any fast food joint that you are a customer and as such, you suggest they use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg lettuce. There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger - no question at all, but that doesn't mean they will do what you say just because you bought a few burgers there. Pick any other company and any other product and it is the same - just because you purchase a product does not mean you have ANY say in management decisions, marketing, right to protest on their property against them, or whatever.
Freedom of speech is a right, but so is refusal of service Frankly if someone comes to my place of business IRL and starts loudly complaining I show them the door. If they have legitimate concerns and bring them up in a mature way, I deal with them. But if they start getting an attitude or think I owe them anything they can bring their unprofitable problems to my competitors and good riddance. You are customers, not members of a cooperative.
Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.
If you could do it better, you would have alreadyThere may be a few ESO customers who can put together million-dollar deals and convince investors to put money into a "cool idea" for a video game, but more than likely if they cold they would have already and we would be playing your game. That means that in all likelihood your "cool idea" is only that - cool - but not profitable or technically workable.
The customer is always right Hahahahahahaha - HA! If you actually believe companies when they tell you this, well ... let's just say I never want to eat in a restaurant with you. You probably don't realize the crimes against humanity that are being inflicted upon your seven-course meal when you send your soup back for being too hot.
Now, nothing in this post is meant to say that legitimate concerns and problems are not valid reasons to complain - submit a ticket and it will either be solved or it won't and then you can make a decision to leave or to stay. I'm just tired of seeing so much MMO VETERAN CRYBABY talk. If you are going to leave because your every whim isn't catered to - then leave. Nobody probably cares because you are a problem customer and worst sin of all, unprofitable. Stop blowing through a year's worth of good RPG content in less than a week and then complaining no one is making content to meet your special snowflake needs. And stop talking about you were here "from the beginning". Yeah, and I played Daggerfall in the 1990s - no one cares if you started ESO in 2014 or how many thousands of hours you've played since then. Right now you're not helping.
This might be true in America but in The Netherlands if you dont deliver your promise you are out of bussines fast i dont know about the rest of Europe but i think its pretty much the same in germany and uk
So Windows 95 was never released in the Netherlands?
Interesting
Not sure what Windows 95 has to do with this but not much you could do when only 2 companies offered viable cost effective operating systems. (Not much consumer protection under such limited competition.)
scorpiodog wrote: »scorpiodog wrote: »scorpiodog wrote: »I see so many absurd comments on this forum and in Youtube videos I feel the need for a basic lesson in the realities of Business:
People invest in a business to make money. Yes, it would be nice if any company actually cared more about their customers than their bottom line, but that just isn't going to happen. Whole Foods, WallMart, Blizzard, Wizzards of the Coast - they all operate with shareholders as their first, second, and third priority. At best they try to PRETEND they care about you more than their bottom line, but they don't. If you can' accept that you have a very disappointing future ahead of you. Heck, even Greenpeace is more concerned about revenues than actually solving environmental problems and they aren't even a for-profit organization. Try telling Greenpeace how they can improve and see how far you get, lmao.
Every Cost and Risk must be assessed for expected gain "It would be cool if" is not a reason to expend R&D. If you want a company to change something, you have to explain how that up-front expenditure will turn a profit.
Purchasing a product does not give you any "say" Try writing a strongly worded letter to any fast food joint that you are a customer and as such, you suggest they use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg lettuce. There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger - no question at all, but that doesn't mean they will do what you say just because you bought a few burgers there. Pick any other company and any other product and it is the same - just because you purchase a product does not mean you have ANY say in management decisions, marketing, right to protest on their property against them, or whatever.
Freedom of speech is a right, but so is refusal of service Frankly if someone comes to my place of business IRL and starts loudly complaining I show them the door. If they have legitimate concerns and bring them up in a mature way, I deal with them. But if they start getting an attitude or think I owe them anything they can bring their unprofitable problems to my competitors and good riddance. You are customers, not members of a cooperative.
Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.
If you could do it better, you would have alreadyThere may be a few ESO customers who can put together million-dollar deals and convince investors to put money into a "cool idea" for a video game, but more than likely if they cold they would have already and we would be playing your game. That means that in all likelihood your "cool idea" is only that - cool - but not profitable or technically workable.
The customer is always right Hahahahahahaha - HA! If you actually believe companies when they tell you this, well ... let's just say I never want to eat in a restaurant with you. You probably don't realize the crimes against humanity that are being inflicted upon your seven-course meal when you send your soup back for being too hot.
Now, nothing in this post is meant to say that legitimate concerns and problems are not valid reasons to complain - submit a ticket and it will either be solved or it won't and then you can make a decision to leave or to stay. I'm just tired of seeing so much MMO VETERAN CRYBABY talk. If you are going to leave because your every whim isn't catered to - then leave. Nobody probably cares because you are a problem customer and worst sin of all, unprofitable. Stop blowing through a year's worth of good RPG content in less than a week and then complaining no one is making content to meet your special snowflake needs. And stop talking about you were here "from the beginning". Yeah, and I played Daggerfall in the 1990s - no one cares if you started ESO in 2014 or how many thousands of hours you've played since then. Right now you're not helping.
This might be true in America but in The Netherlands if you dont deliver your promise you are out of bussines fast i dont know about the rest of Europe but i think its pretty much the same in germany and uk
So Windows 95 was never released in the Netherlands?
Interesting
Not sure what Windows 95 has to do with this but not much you could do when only 2 companies offered viable cost effective operating systems. (Not much consumer protection under such limited competition.)
Well - DOS, windows '95 and Vista (and some argue Windows 8) were crap products and Windows continues to be successful after releasing broken software again and again. Remember DOS Stack errors? the Win95 Blue Screen? Trying to configure hardware with a limited number of I/O slots? The 72-long hour Vista Updates?
My point is that "customer satisfaction" isn't the all-powerful absolute that many people seem to think it is. Even in the Netherlands. Of course companies have to consider what their customers say they want, but not every company or to the degree that many people seem to think.
Ironically enough the only reason I have Windows on my Home computer is because of ESO - I knew before purchasing ESO they would be pushing the technological envelope and instead of playing a more stable game using older technology that could work on LINUX, I decided to buy ESO and Windows 10.
MoeCoastie wrote: »There is value to what the OP is saying...but, imo, he sorta goes off the beaten path the further along in his post he gets.
His point is proven if you watch some of these youtubers. If you knew nothing of ESO, you'd think the guy on the video was some psychotic lunatic who contradicts himself at times, can't elaborate on their thoughts and often thinks that "its stupid" is reason enough.
There are issues with this game but they are nothing I havent experienced in other games.
-lag
-abilities not functioning the way they are described
-other tech issues like loading screens, graphical glitches, etc.
These are things that clients/consumers are entitled to and should voice their opinions about.
now crap like:
-aoe caps
-healing being stupid proof
-general balance issues (ive ask many people to elaborate on some of these issues...most often the reply is "if I need to tell you, then youre a n00b")
among other things, these are all subjective, not a definitive in their impact if changed. These are all things that ZOS has every right to decide on their own without any help from community. Its their game, their vision, their 9 years dedicated to this project and forgive me for saying this, they've done a pretty damn good job minus some tech issues. God forbid ZOS listen to one of these kids and the change ends up bad (i.e. no-CP campaign which none of these guys even play on). Who's accountable? ZOS! Said youtuber is just gonna dust his hands off and move on to the next game without a second thought. Imagine if I made a youtube channel/blog/twitch complaining how I think McD's french fries should have pepper. This is request that would only account for my personal taste. If I did such a thing, I'd look like a fool! Instead, a normal person would just go to Rally's and have all the fries with pepper they want.
P.S.
Ppl need to stop harping on the 200ppl on screen without lag statement. ZoS has since stated MANY times (more often than was stated about the 200ppl) that correcting the lag is an ongoing battle and it will not be a quick fix. For some reason people ignore the latter statements as if they were never spoken. Selective hearing...sorta like my 14 year old daughter.
scorpiodog wrote: »scorpiodog wrote: »scorpiodog wrote: »I see so many absurd comments on this forum and in Youtube videos I feel the need for a basic lesson in the realities of Business:
People invest in a business to make money. Yes, it would be nice if any company actually cared more about their customers than their bottom line, but that just isn't going to happen. Whole Foods, WallMart, Blizzard, Wizzards of the Coast - they all operate with shareholders as their first, second, and third priority. At best they try to PRETEND they care about you more than their bottom line, but they don't. If you can' accept that you have a very disappointing future ahead of you. Heck, even Greenpeace is more concerned about revenues than actually solving environmental problems and they aren't even a for-profit organization. Try telling Greenpeace how they can improve and see how far you get, lmao.
Every Cost and Risk must be assessed for expected gain "It would be cool if" is not a reason to expend R&D. If you want a company to change something, you have to explain how that up-front expenditure will turn a profit.
Purchasing a product does not give you any "say" Try writing a strongly worded letter to any fast food joint that you are a customer and as such, you suggest they use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg lettuce. There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger - no question at all, but that doesn't mean they will do what you say just because you bought a few burgers there. Pick any other company and any other product and it is the same - just because you purchase a product does not mean you have ANY say in management decisions, marketing, right to protest on their property against them, or whatever.
Freedom of speech is a right, but so is refusal of service Frankly if someone comes to my place of business IRL and starts loudly complaining I show them the door. If they have legitimate concerns and bring them up in a mature way, I deal with them. But if they start getting an attitude or think I owe them anything they can bring their unprofitable problems to my competitors and good riddance. You are customers, not members of a cooperative.
Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.
If you could do it better, you would have alreadyThere may be a few ESO customers who can put together million-dollar deals and convince investors to put money into a "cool idea" for a video game, but more than likely if they cold they would have already and we would be playing your game. That means that in all likelihood your "cool idea" is only that - cool - but not profitable or technically workable.
The customer is always right Hahahahahahaha - HA! If you actually believe companies when they tell you this, well ... let's just say I never want to eat in a restaurant with you. You probably don't realize the crimes against humanity that are being inflicted upon your seven-course meal when you send your soup back for being too hot.
Now, nothing in this post is meant to say that legitimate concerns and problems are not valid reasons to complain - submit a ticket and it will either be solved or it won't and then you can make a decision to leave or to stay. I'm just tired of seeing so much MMO VETERAN CRYBABY talk. If you are going to leave because your every whim isn't catered to - then leave. Nobody probably cares because you are a problem customer and worst sin of all, unprofitable. Stop blowing through a year's worth of good RPG content in less than a week and then complaining no one is making content to meet your special snowflake needs. And stop talking about you were here "from the beginning". Yeah, and I played Daggerfall in the 1990s - no one cares if you started ESO in 2014 or how many thousands of hours you've played since then. Right now you're not helping.
This might be true in America but in The Netherlands if you dont deliver your promise you are out of bussines fast i dont know about the rest of Europe but i think its pretty much the same in germany and uk
So Windows 95 was never released in the Netherlands?
Interesting
Not sure what Windows 95 has to do with this but not much you could do when only 2 companies offered viable cost effective operating systems. (Not much consumer protection under such limited competition.)
Well - DOS, windows '95 and Vista (and some argue Windows 8) were crap products and Windows continues to be successful after releasing broken software again and again. Remember DOS Stack errors? the Win95 Blue Screen? Trying to configure hardware with a limited number of I/O slots? The 72-long hour Vista Updates?
My point is that "customer satisfaction" isn't the all-powerful absolute that many people seem to think it is. Even in the Netherlands. Of course companies have to consider what their customers say they want, but not every company or to the degree that many people seem to think.
Ironically enough the only reason I have Windows on my Home computer is because of ESO - I knew before purchasing ESO they would be pushing the technological envelope and instead of playing a more stable game using older technology that could work on LINUX, I decided to buy ESO and Windows 10.
Thanks for explanation!
Comparison might be harder with OS since there are only a few companies providing software. Competition unlikely especially if Microsoft's business model from early 90's was to get their software into every market possible.
My counter-argument is that many markets have no choice and therefore Microsoft can supply buggy versions at zero financial impact. Highly needed in early days of personal computing, but might be considered highly abusive in today's standards.
scorpiodog wrote: »scorpiodog wrote: »scorpiodog wrote: »I see so many absurd comments on this forum and in Youtube videos I feel the need for a basic lesson in the realities of Business:
People invest in a business to make money. Yes, it would be nice if any company actually cared more about their customers than their bottom line, but that just isn't going to happen. Whole Foods, WallMart, Blizzard, Wizzards of the Coast - they all operate with shareholders as their first, second, and third priority. At best they try to PRETEND they care about you more than their bottom line, but they don't. If you can' accept that you have a very disappointing future ahead of you. Heck, even Greenpeace is more concerned about revenues than actually solving environmental problems and they aren't even a for-profit organization. Try telling Greenpeace how they can improve and see how far you get, lmao.
Every Cost and Risk must be assessed for expected gain "It would be cool if" is not a reason to expend R&D. If you want a company to change something, you have to explain how that up-front expenditure will turn a profit.
Purchasing a product does not give you any "say" Try writing a strongly worded letter to any fast food joint that you are a customer and as such, you suggest they use romaine lettuce instead of iceberg lettuce. There is no question that romaine makes a tastier burger - no question at all, but that doesn't mean they will do what you say just because you bought a few burgers there. Pick any other company and any other product and it is the same - just because you purchase a product does not mean you have ANY say in management decisions, marketing, right to protest on their property against them, or whatever.
Freedom of speech is a right, but so is refusal of service Frankly if someone comes to my place of business IRL and starts loudly complaining I show them the door. If they have legitimate concerns and bring them up in a mature way, I deal with them. But if they start getting an attitude or think I owe them anything they can bring their unprofitable problems to my competitors and good riddance. You are customers, not members of a cooperative.
Old customers are not more profitable than new customersWith ESO I would say the opposite is true. They have already made a product they can sell to new customers, but for older customers they have to incur new costs. The least profitable customers are those that play the most, and the most profitable are the casual players. In addition to using CPU processing time and bandwidth, high usage players demand more new content sooner, post uninformed BS rant videos to youtube and forums, and often ruin the experience for new customers. Personally if it were my business I'd try to get rid of you at all costs. Again - bring your unprofitable problems to the competition and good riddance.
If you could do it better, you would have alreadyThere may be a few ESO customers who can put together million-dollar deals and convince investors to put money into a "cool idea" for a video game, but more than likely if they cold they would have already and we would be playing your game. That means that in all likelihood your "cool idea" is only that - cool - but not profitable or technically workable.
The customer is always right Hahahahahahaha - HA! If you actually believe companies when they tell you this, well ... let's just say I never want to eat in a restaurant with you. You probably don't realize the crimes against humanity that are being inflicted upon your seven-course meal when you send your soup back for being too hot.
Now, nothing in this post is meant to say that legitimate concerns and problems are not valid reasons to complain - submit a ticket and it will either be solved or it won't and then you can make a decision to leave or to stay. I'm just tired of seeing so much MMO VETERAN CRYBABY talk. If you are going to leave because your every whim isn't catered to - then leave. Nobody probably cares because you are a problem customer and worst sin of all, unprofitable. Stop blowing through a year's worth of good RPG content in less than a week and then complaining no one is making content to meet your special snowflake needs. And stop talking about you were here "from the beginning". Yeah, and I played Daggerfall in the 1990s - no one cares if you started ESO in 2014 or how many thousands of hours you've played since then. Right now you're not helping.
This might be true in America but in The Netherlands if you dont deliver your promise you are out of bussines fast i dont know about the rest of Europe but i think its pretty much the same in germany and uk
So Windows 95 was never released in the Netherlands?
Interesting
Not sure what Windows 95 has to do with this but not much you could do when only 2 companies offered viable cost effective operating systems. (Not much consumer protection under such limited competition.)
Well - DOS, windows '95 and Vista (and some argue Windows 8) were crap products and Windows continues to be successful after releasing broken software again and again. Remember DOS Stack errors? the Win95 Blue Screen? Trying to configure hardware with a limited number of I/O slots? The 72-long hour Vista Updates?
My point is that "customer satisfaction" isn't the all-powerful absolute that many people seem to think it is. Even in the Netherlands. Of course companies have to consider what their customers say they want, but not every company or to the degree that many people seem to think.
Ironically enough the only reason I have Windows on my Home computer is because of ESO - I knew before purchasing ESO they would be pushing the technological envelope and instead of playing a more stable game using older technology that could work on LINUX, I decided to buy ESO and Windows 10.