Mag Sorc PvP Build Help

The_Lex · March 2016

I appreciate everyone's feedback!

Also: Use the overload bar. This is where I stick utilities that arent critical, but should always be at hand. Defensive rune, the alliance speed buff for riding, wards, and radiant Mage light...

That's a good idea. As mainly a PvE player so far, it never occurred to me to use my overload bar for utilities (other than wards) such as Rapid Maneuver.

ToRelax · March 2016

NBrookus wrote: »

Lots of good food for thought here. I am currently running the following setup solo/small group with modest success, but I keep tinkering with it. I do miss having the Force Pulse I use in PvE, but it doesn't really work to weave it with lightning staff, and lightning is undodgeable. Like Fried Egg, I find Mage's Wrath procs Frags quite well and is cheap enough to be spammed if you need to get one up.

I couldn't get the hang of daedric tomb either, I was just missing with it a lot.

3 Willpower (2 spell dmg, 1 mag regen)
5 Kagnerac's (max magicka on all armor)
1 Kena
2 Torugs Pact

Front bar, destro lightning nirn with prismatic glyph
Velocious Curse
Crystal Frags
Prox Det
Hardened Ward
Mage's Wrath
Ice Comet

Back bar, resto precise with disease enchant
Streak
Radiant Magelight (sometimes mines; I want them but bar space is precious)
Crit Surge (I don't have a high crit build, and honestly I wonder if this does much good)
Healing Ward (a MUST since I don't always have a healer and the only reason I run resto)
Boundless Storm
Ice Comet

I'd honestly use Force Pulse over Mage's Fury, but okay, you thought about that already. What I can't get around are your two Meteors and your laughable sustain. You have 1 magicka regen bonus on sets, one on glyphs, none for stamina and no cost reduction either. That *can* work when are an experienced player with high damage who can finish opponents fast, especially when also using Harness Magicka and/or Energy Overload. As far as I can tell, none of that is true, so when you get resource problems, add some regen. Or magicka cost reduction on glyphs because it helps a lot more with streak, compensating for some mistakes you may make at this point.
And yeah, Overload would be my second ultimate of choice to store skills there, like Surge, Mines, Detonation, Defensive Rune etc. Just make sure you're survivable when activating it, have Hardened Ward and Streak there and put it on the resto bar so you can heal faster if you get damaged in Overload.

Saint314Louis1985 · March 2016

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

I would use mines instead of prox det.

Crushing shock is pretty good but the difference between that and force pulse is not much. I use it because it doesnt do much less dmg than pulse and you get the occassional interrupt. It wont make or break your build to run one or the other. No emergency respec needed.

no, just no. prox det is superior to mines. If you can only fit one, prox det will give superior damage performance while offering superior area denial. The only advantage of mines is the root, which is a niche effect that's not worth losing the damage

please read his question and you will see why i answered with that. his question was if he doesnt have prox det unlocked, what skill should he use. I recommended mines. In my above skill listing, i had prox det slotted as a recommendation.

The_Lex · March 2016

Wow, this has really been helpful. What I am seeing is that some skill bars seems to be set-up for more defensive play, while others are better for aggressive, burst play.

I haven't stepped foot in Cyrodiil yet, other than for the initial walkthrough tutorials, so I'm sitting at only 2.5 in Alliance XP. That means proxy det is still a ways off. I will slot Minefield in its place until then.

One thing I know I will do is craft different armor. I'm currently wearing 5 Julianos and 3 Torug's Pact. I have arcane jewlery, but not the Willpower set- I haven't found willpower yet. I have zero issues with sustain in PvE, but I'm concerned about PvP. I may craft some Magnus or maybe Seducers for the sustain. I am a part of PvE guild, but maybe one of our crafters could make me some Kagrenac armor.

timmayyyboy · March 2016

Thelon wrote: »

One of your ultimates should be Power Overload to give you access to a 3rd skill bar

Why power overload over energy overload?

ToRelax · March 2016

timmayyyboy wrote: »

Thelon wrote: »

One of your ultimates should be Power Overload to give you access to a 3rd skill bar

Why power overload over energy overload?

No actual reason, it's a myth Power Overload had any advantage to the other morph other than heavy attack range that has been lingering literally for years now. Also, Power Overload is bugged and does less damage lol.

timmayyyboy · March 2016

ToRelax wrote: »

timmayyyboy wrote: »

Thelon wrote: »

One of your ultimates should be Power Overload to give you access to a 3rd skill bar

Why power overload over energy overload?

No actual reason, it's a myth Power Overload had any advantage to the other morph other than heavy attack range that has been lingering literally for years now. Also, Power Overload is bugged and does less damage lol.

Lmao thats what i thought but knowing ZoS with their stealth buffs and nerfs i thought maybe i missed something

Minalan · March 2016

ToRelax wrote: »

timmayyyboy wrote: »

Thelon wrote: »

One of your ultimates should be Power Overload to give you access to a 3rd skill bar

Why power overload over energy overload?

No actual reason, it's a myth Power Overload had any advantage to the other morph other than heavy attack range that has been lingering literally for years now. Also, Power Overload is bugged and does less damage lol.

The magicka regeneration from energy overload makes it better regardless, especially for those of us with poor sustain builds.

NBrookus · March 2016

ToRelax wrote: »

I'd honestly use Force Pulse over Mage's Fury, but okay, you thought about that already. What I can't get around are your two Meteors and your laughable sustain. You have 1 magicka regen bonus on sets, one on glyphs, none for stamina and no cost reduction either. That *can* work when are an experienced player with high damage who can finish opponents fast, especially when also using Harness Magicka and/or Energy Overload. As far as I can tell, none of that is true, so when you get resource problems, add some regen. Or magicka cost reduction on glyphs because it helps a lot more with streak, compensating for some mistakes you may make at this point.
And yeah, Overload would be my second ultimate of choice to store skills there, like Surge, Mines, Detonation, Defensive Rune etc. Just make sure you're survivable when activating it, have Hardened Ward and Streak there and put it on the resto bar so you can heal faster if you get damaged in Overload.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not having resource issues often; otherwise I'd swap some glyphs. My green CP are all in recovery (100) with the rest in reduced cost.

I use the same ult on both bars and no Overload for a very personal reason -- my hands don't work well; they don't always do what I tell them to and they don't always give me the feedback to know I failed. It's kinda like living with Cyro lag all the time.

Overload was just unmanageable with this as much as I tried to make it work. So I tend to set up my bars with my "oh crap" stuff always in the same place, and if I'm dropping an ult I really want to be sure I know what's going to happen.

Ampnode · March 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Ampnode wrote: »

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Ampnode wrote: »

What I run on my v16 sorcerer(392 CP):

GEAR: (Infused on large pieces, impenetrable on small)
- 5 Kag's Hope
- 2 Torug's Pact
- 1 Kena
- 3 Willpower Jewelry(1 spell damage, 2 recovery glyphs)

SKILLS:
- Front Bar(Destro Staff)
- Entropy
- Velocious Curse
- Crystal Fragments
- Crushing Shock
- Inevitable Detonation
- ULTIMATE: Dawnbreaker of Smiting

- Back Bar(Resto Staff)
- Daedric Minefield
- Harness Magicka
- Healing Ward
- Hardened Ward
- Streak
- ULTIMATE: Ice Comet

You prefer Entropy over Power Surge?

I use entropy for not only the 20% more spell damage, but for the passive Might of the Guild, in the Mage's Guild skill line. So before I use a hard hitting ability like a proc'd frag or an ultimate, I use entropy to get the 20% empower buff. Power Surge only really has one pro against entropy, and that's that you can buff yourself freely when you want. Can also heal you on critical hits, but that's really not important since you rely on healing ward and shielding. Imo, getting a 20% empower buff for a proc'd frag or an ultimate like Dawnbreaker is more worth it.

I use entropy in PVE for the crystal procs, healing, and health buff(5%). It helps with sustained healing and sustained dot damage along with that nice empower buff.

Power surge is for PVP, where you can buff up in between fights and have your spells ready. With power surge you also get the extra 2% magicka damage expert passive in storm calling. You should have all sorc skills on your main bar for 12% total. I use it to max every point of spell damage possible for quick kills.

Also: Use the overload bar. This is where I stick utilities that arent critical, but should always be at hand. Defensive rune, the alliance speed buff for riding, wards, and radiant Mage light...

In PvP, you want as much damage to your bursts as possible. The extra 2% spell damage you get from slotting this self buff is in no comparison to a free empower buff to your major damage dealing abilities. Achieving the highest possible spell damage for a sorc is NOT how you play a sorc. You achieve max magicka pools, because this is essentially the same thing as stacking high spell damage EXCEPT you get way higher shields because they scale off your magicka pool instead of spell damage.

There's a new shift going on in today's builds, and that's achieving at least 36K+ max stamina/magicka. You get nearly the same damage output/tooltips when stacking high resource pools as you do when stacking high weapon/spell damage. The benefit to doing this? You get to use more abilities, which in return will make your sustain even greater, while still maintaining the same damage, regens, etc.

Minalan · March 2016

IMO, PVP is about who hits first and hardest, or who puts the other guy on his back first. With surge and ward on the main bar, I usually start a fight with major sorcery, full shields, and a buffed frag proc. You're in a better starting place.

The decision is personal, but I get empower from using meteor or radiant light on the other bar. I'm running 5 Julianos/ 3 Magnus / 3 magicka engine. My magicka and sustain are fine with the set bonuses.

I have been switching mundus stones around to see how they work, and atronach and Mage seem to be better for me than thief, shadow, or apprentice. So you're right on the max magicka and sustain builds.

The_Lex · March 2016

Minalan wrote: »

IMO, PVP is about who hits first and hardest, or who puts the other guy on his back first. With surge and ward on the main bar, I usually start a fight with major sorcery, full shields, and a buffed frag proc. You're in a better starting place.

The decision is personal, but I get empower from using meteor or radiant light on the other bar. I'm running 5 Julianos/ 3 Magnus / 3 magicka engine. My magicka and sustain are fine with the set bonuses.

I have been switching mundus stones around to see how they work, and atronach and Mage seem to be better for me than thief, shadow, or apprentice. So you're right on the max magicka and sustain builds.

You mentioned Radiant Light. I know the TG changed that morph to reveal stealthed NBs. But, I have Inner Light. Do you think I should respec the morph?

The_Lex · March 2016

Here's what I'm confused about . . .

Maybe it's a new meta thing, but people in-game are advising me that the new trend for Sorcs is to go with crafted sets/items that boost max magicka and magicka regen over and above sets that boost spell damage or even spell critical. I understand crits are not as helpful in PvP but they're saying the trend applies to PvE as well. Is this because spell damage is based off max magicka? Before hearing all of this, I planned to craft a different set for PvP. I am currently wearing 5 Julianos and 3 Torug's Pact for PvE, which gives huge boosts to spell damage and spell critical. I had planned to craft a set for more resource sustain for PvP (max magicka/mag regen), but if this new "trend" is due to the new meta, it seems like I should craft the sustaining set for both PvP and PvE.

Have any of you heard about this new trend?

DHale · March 2016

Streak for sure and crushing shock more than force pulse. The interrupt has saved me more than the extra damage. I use power surge over entropy as I can buff from stealth in pvp. Despite what some op say your shield can only take one wrecking blow and no one just does one so you need immovable pots. Two wb and you are in execute range. My Stam nb can bust through a sorc shield with 100 in bastion and 67 in hardy in just two WB hits. Both heavy animation cancelled. If I was a dk it would be even easier. You simply can't get knocked in the air or you are dead in most cases.

Minalan · March 2016

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IMO, PVP is about who hits first and hardest, or who puts the other guy on his back first. With surge and ward on the main bar, I usually start a fight with major sorcery, full shields, and a buffed frag proc. You're in a better starting place.

The decision is personal, but I get empower from using meteor or radiant light on the other bar. I'm running 5 Julianos/ 3 Magnus / 3 magicka engine. My magicka and sustain are fine with the set bonuses.

I have been switching mundus stones around to see how they work, and atronach and Mage seem to be better for me than thief, shadow, or apprentice. So you're right on the max magicka and sustain builds.

You mentioned Radiant Light. I know the TG changed that morph to reveal stealthed NBs. But, I have Inner Light. Do you think I should respec the morph?

I would respec it, and leave it on a back bar. You only need it slotted to get all the passive bonuses. Then activate it if you think an enemy is near.

FriedEggSandwich · March 2016

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Here's what I'm confused about . . .

Maybe it's a new meta thing, but people in-game are advising me that the new trend for Sorcs is to go with crafted sets/items that boost max magicka and magicka regen over and above sets that boost spell damage or even spell critical. I understand crits are not as helpful in PvP but they're saying the trend applies to PvE as well. Is this because spell damage is based off max magicka? Before hearing all of this, I planned to craft a different set for PvP. I am currently wearing 5 Julianos and 3 Torug's Pact for PvE, which gives huge boosts to spell damage and spell critical. I had planned to craft a set for more resource sustain for PvP (max magicka/mag regen), but if this new "trend" is due to the new meta, it seems like I should craft the sustaining set for both PvP and PvE.

Have any of you heard about this new trend?

Spell damage isn't based off max magicka. Your tootip damage scales off your spell damage and your max magicka combined, but your wards will scale just off your max magicka. Some people might argue that a shield stacking sorc should invest more in to max magicka to make the most of their shields, but I can't tell you if this is good advice or not. The regen bit is true; you do want regen from set bonuses in pvp but this is easy to do, significantly increasing max magicka with set bonuses isn't easy to do afaik.

It's important to try to have high spell damage and high max magicka. But traditionally it has been easier to raise spell damage with set bonuses and easier to raise max magicka with enchants/food etc. This is still true. I have no max magicka boost from any of my set bonuses, but I still have 36k magicka. If I min-maxed my traits I could have 37-38k magicka in pvp without even trying.

So don't worry about raising your max magicka with set bonuses, it will gradually raise anyway as every blue cp you spend raises your max magicka by a little bit.

Regen can come from various sources including cp. The amount of regen you settle for should depend on the amount of cost reduction you have. I personally wear one cost reduction glyph and have 54cp into magician for 11% reduced cost. This lets me get away with only 1600 magicka regen, and I get a lot of that from my 72cp invested in arcanist. The rest of it comes from the 3x arch-mage set which is unique in that it's the only 3 piece to raise both spell damage and magicka regen. Arch mage is fairly cheap with Imen atm, I think the most expensive piece was 15k and the cheapest was 8k. People will tell you it's the same as magnus or mara but it's not if you actually look.

The_Lex · March 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Here's what I'm confused about . . .

Maybe it's a new meta thing, but people in-game are advising me that the new trend for Sorcs is to go with crafted sets/items that boost max magicka and magicka regen over and above sets that boost spell damage or even spell critical. I understand crits are not as helpful in PvP but they're saying the trend applies to PvE as well. Is this because spell damage is based off max magicka? Before hearing all of this, I planned to craft a different set for PvP. I am currently wearing 5 Julianos and 3 Torug's Pact for PvE, which gives huge boosts to spell damage and spell critical. I had planned to craft a set for more resource sustain for PvP (max magicka/mag regen), but if this new "trend" is due to the new meta, it seems like I should craft the sustaining set for both PvP and PvE.

Have any of you heard about this new trend?

Spell damage isn't based off max magicka. Your tootip damage scales off your spell damage and your max magicka combined, but your wards will scale just off your max magicka. Some people might argue that a shield stacking sorc should invest more in to max magicka to make the most of their shields, but I can't tell you if this is good advice or not. The regen bit is true; you do want regen from set bonuses in pvp but this is easy to do, significantly increasing max magicka with set bonuses isn't easy to do afaik.

It's important to try to have high spell damage and high max magicka. But traditionally it has been easier to raise spell damage with set bonuses and easier to raise max magicka with enchants/food etc. This is still true. I have no max magicka boost from any of my set bonuses, but I still have 36k magicka. If I min-maxed my traits I could have 37-38k magicka in pvp without even trying.

So don't worry about raising your max magicka with set bonuses, it will gradually raise anyway as every blue cp you spend raises your max magicka by a little bit.

Regen can come from various sources including cp. The amount of regen you settle for should depend on the amount of cost reduction you have. I personally wear one cost reduction glyph and have 54cp into magician for 11% reduced cost. This lets me get away with only 1600 magicka regen, and I get a lot of that from my 72cp invested in arcanist. The rest of it comes from the 3x arch-mage set which is unique in that it's the only 3 piece to raise both spell damage and magicka regen. Arch mage is fairly cheap with Imen atm, I think the most expensive piece was 15k and the cheapest was 8k. People will tell you it's the same as magnus or mara but it's not if you actually look.

Thanks for clearing that up. I should learn to turn off zone chat.

Waffennacht · March 2016

I'm a snowflake.

I run resto staff as my main. I tick at 4.3k, so a full heavy does 12.9ishk

It gives major mending, prevents the need for anything bu the bare minimum regen, heals allies, heals me, ublockable, undodgeable.

As is I get +20% from elemental expert, +10% from staff expert and +10% from thaumaturge

Crazy sounding I know, but its almost auto win against a dk.

The_Lex · March 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm a snowflake.

I run resto staff as my main. I tick at 4.3k, so a full heavy does 12.9ishk

It gives major mending, prevents the need for anything bu the bare minimum regen, heals allies, heals me, ublockable, undodgeable.

As is I get +20% from elemental expert, +10% from staff expert and +10% from thaumaturge

Crazy sounding I know, but its almost auto win against a dk.

Ha! Funny that you commented - I was looking at your build this morning. It look amazing and unique. I'd love to see it in action some day. Are you planning on updating it any time soon?

FriedEggSandwich · March 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm a snowflake.

I run resto staff as my main. I tick at 4.3k, so a full heavy does 12.9ishk

It gives major mending, prevents the need for anything bu the bare minimum regen, heals allies, heals me, ublockable, undodgeable.

As is I get +20% from elemental expert, +10% from staff expert and +10% from thaumaturge

Crazy sounding I know, but its almost auto win against a dk.

Double resto meta is oldskool

Interesting to know, don't know if I could do without the ability to weave medium attacks though.

Mcwoods55 · March 2016

I am v16 and just started using overload again (I have been using meter for a long long time)and my 3rd bar isn't showing up it is just keeping my active bar. Any ideas on this? How do I set back up my 3rd bar?

Thanks!

Waffennacht · March 2016

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I'm a snowflake.

I run resto staff as my main. I tick at 4.3k, so a full heavy does 12.9ishk

It gives major mending, prevents the need for anything bu the bare minimum regen, heals allies, heals me, ublockable, undodgeable.

As is I get +20% from elemental expert, +10% from staff expert and +10% from thaumaturge

Crazy sounding I know, but its almost auto win against a dk.

Ha! Funny that you commented - I was looking at your build this morning. It look amazing and unique. I'd love to see it in action some day. Are you planning on updating it any time soon?

Absolutely, just tweakin some things etc... still learning some interesting interactions. Like fyi: using a pet's ability can proc frags. Daedric Prey doesn't seem to have the glitch etc...

Don't wanna hijack, just some ideas to ponder

The_Lex · March 2016

Mcwoods55 wrote: »

I am v16 and just started using overload again (I have been using meter for a long long time)and my 3rd bar isn't showing up it is just keeping my active bar. Any ideas on this? How do I set back up my 3rd bar?

Thanks!

Not sure if this answers your question . . .

When you pop Overload, the 3rd bar will be have the same skills assigned to it as the bar that contains Overload. After entering Overload, just reassign the skills you want, and the Overload bar will remember it for the next time.

dpencil · March 2016

To answer your question, patriarch, I do use the Twilight for heals. It kind of serves like a healing ward, I really only punch it for oh crap moments, but also sometimes if I can see its health going down or if I can do a little off-healing for people around me. I also like the distraction and extra pessure sure it brings.

Also, I really do like deadric tomb. Most people are not expecting it to be dropped on top of them, and it arms instantly. You just have to get used to anticipating where they will appear when you place them.

DHale · March 2016

Mcwoods55 wrote: »

I am v16 and just started using overload again (I have been using meter for a long long time)and my 3rd bar isn't showing up it is just keeping my active bar. Any ideas on this? How do I set back up my 3rd bar?

Thanks!

That's not your active bar that's you overload bar which until you move stuff in and out it will have what was on your bar when you toggled into overload. Stay in over load move the skills in that you want. Then toggle off.

The_Lex · March 2016

I don't have the Undaunted Mettle passive yet. I know, I know . . . I'm working on it. lol. Is there any benefit to wearing one heavy and one medium piece without the passive? Specifically, would the armor gain be enough to offset what I would lose by not having those two additional light amor pieces?

The_Lex · March 2016

Any thoughts about Trapping Webs on a primary DW bar?

DHale · March 2016

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Any thoughts about Trapping Webs on a primary DW bar?

Trapping webs is great but expensive. It need someone to synergize then synergy which was fanrastic but just got a 40 percent nerf in the TG update. It's not as spamable as crushing shock.

The_Lex · March 2016

DHale wrote: »

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Any thoughts about Trapping Webs on a primary DW bar?

Trapping webs is great but expensive. It need someone to synergize then synergy which was fanrastic but just got a 40 percent nerf in the TG update. It's not as spamable as crushing shock.

I was trying the unmorphed version in PvE last night. Although I was three levels over the mobs, they were going down pretty fast.